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[Neff]

Anyone who calls Final Fantasy VII a masterpiece is a moron.

FFVII is the greatest RPG of all time. No, it wasn't my first RPG. No, it wasn't my first FF. I didn't even play it at release during its peak hype.

It's the best because it's just top-to-bottom brilliant.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

I adore the game but it seems its numerous systems are just too experimental/obscure for many.

More than anything I think, it's poorly balanced. If you try to play it like a regular FF- fight, level up, and equip spells commonly available to you, you're going to have a horrible time, suffering long, repetitive battles with a weak party, and you'll probably rely on summons to do any kind of decent damage. If you invest even the slightest bit of time into refining/carding and whatnot, and pay attention to Junctioning and GF abilities, you can make your party invincible in an hour. There's almost no in-between. You can either play it badly or too well. It's inorganic and lacks a smooth growth curve for the player. I love it though. Tinkering with the menus to make my party pure death is incredibly satisfying, but it does trivialise the entire experience in terms of challenge. Personally I've always seen that as my reward, but I can understand how it's not for everyone.

Yeah I think it’s exactly that. So many bizarre and counterintuitive gameplay mechanics that punish you for playing like a normal-ass JRPG

- you actually get weaker by leveling up

- you gain stat boosts via hoarding spells, and you can draw an unlimited # of them from any enemy

- you get weaker by casting spells that are junctioned to your stats

- summons cost nothing to use and have long, unskippable animations

- most effective way to strengthen your party is to avoid battles and spend all your time grinding the Triple Triad mini game


I managed to enjoy it for what it was, and I had fun breaking the shit out of the game once I figured it out. But honestly the gameplay deserves all the criticism it got and I’m glad most of those mechanics never made it into another FF game

 

[Northeastmonk]

I played this when it came out. I played it more than my Sega Dreamcast at launch. The graphics, music, and it’s setting make it a very enjoyable game. At the time I just used a GameShark to max stats and enter the debug room. I was a kid at the time. Now a days, the mechanics get broken down to the tiniest details. Playing some repetitive mini game doesn’t sound all that appealing. I didn’t really care for the Junction system, but I wasn’t up in arms. It was different. You could tell how much better FF7’s battle system was if you played 7 again.

 

[Neff]

you get weaker by casting spells that are junctioned to your stats

You make good points but I always felt like this one was a negligible issue. By and large yes it's much more efficient to equip spells to boost your stats and just leave them there and mash/Limit Break spam your way through the game, but It's fairly easy to get/create high level spells once you know how so there's little downside for throwing out an occasional spell in battle (especially if your magic stats are high), not to mention that lots of enemies/bosses will let you draw spells weak to them so you can use them without impacting your stats. The fact that it's so rare for magic casting to be actually useful in battle in itself is certainly a knock against the game though.

But honestly the gameplay deserves all the criticism it got and I’m glad most of those mechanics never made it into another FF game

Yeah I love Junctioning but I can't see a way of making it more intuitive, balanced, and strategically relevant in a way that will appeal to the majority of RPG fans without ruining what makes it stupidly fun. The fact that it's so comically imbalanced and abusable (like much of the game in general) is mostly why it's so enjoyable. It was an interesting experiment and it should probably stay that way.

 

[omegasc]

As a teenager back then, I liked it a lot, but after FF VII it had a lot of work to do to be remarkable I guess. Story was a bit... crazy, which didn't help as well since I was still ramping up my english skills as a non native.
At the time though, I never heard of anyone actually hating it.

 

[lpking2005]

FF8 was really underrated in my opinion and had one of the best minigames ever with Triple Triad.
I was so obsessed with getting all the different cards.

Really wish that was a feature that they expanded on and made it a standard in all FF games going forward.

 

[IFireflyl]

FFVII is the greatest RPG of all time. No, it wasn't my first RPG. No, it wasn't my first FF. I didn't even play it at release during its peak hype.

It's the best because it's just top-to-bottom brilliant.

It's really not though.

• It doesn't have the best Final Fantasy villain, let alone the best video game villain.
• Cloud is the main protagonist and spends most of his time acting like a broody teenager. (At least with Final Fantasy VIII it showed us what Squall was thinking when he was broody.) Cloud is the most bland character out of all of your party, and that's sad.
• Final Fantasy VII throws away job classes entirely, something that Final Fantasy games were known for. You no longer have a thief, a mage, et cetera. Anyone can equip any materia, and everyone is essentially a carbon-copy of Cloud. Their stats are different, but not in any impactful or meaningful way. The only real meaningful difference is with their Limit Breaks.
• The plot itself is unnecessarily convoluted (as was the ending of Final Fantasy VIII).
• The story requires you to be okay with Tifa - Cloud's close childhood friend - hearing Cloud's story, knowing it is virtually 100% incorrect, and then choosing to let him to continue to live in his fantasy land instead of nipping his delusions in the bud.
• The translation was awful.
• The pacing was not great.

Was Final Fantasy VII a good game? Absolutely. But a masterpiece? It has far too many flaws to be a masterpiece. It was a great game for its time. You can't look back at the game now and say, "Yes, that is the pinnacle of video gaming."

 

[Neff]

It doesn't have the best Final Fantasy villain

Nice opinions, but I'll straight up disagree with this one.

You can't look back at the game now and say, "Yes, that is the pinnacle of video gaming."

I wouldn't because it isn't, and it never was, but it sure is the best RPG I've ever played.

 

[IFireflyl]

I wouldn't because it isn't, and it never was, but it sure is the best RPG I've ever played.

Then what is your criteria for Final Fantasy VII being a masterpiece? That you like it a lot? Because we have established the following:

• They did away with core gameplay that was, and is, better than what Final Fantasy VII has.
  • I am talking about things like job classes and equipment usage where older Final Fantasy games did it better.
• The story/plot is convoluted and requires you to believe that Cloud is suffering delusions, and that his own friends willfully ignore this.
• The translation is garbage.
• The pacing isn't great.
• Cloud is a bland protagonist, and he is outshone by every other member of your party.

I don't care that you like the game, or even that you love the game. It's a good game! I'm just saying you can't look at the above issues and still call this a masterpiece. It went backwards from Final Fantasy VI with things like the villain (Kefka was better although Sephiroth is more iconic - this is purely subjective), job classes, equipment usage, translation, and pacing. But Final Fantasy VII is the masterpiece - the game that all other Final Fantasy games look up to? Nuh bruh. Not at all correct.

 

[Neff]

Then what is your criteria for Final Fantasy VII being a masterpiece?

The variety, Materia, the elaborate storytelling, that death, the sheer human endeavour in it is unlike anything we've seen before or since.

I'm just saying you can't look at the above issues and still call this a masterpiece.

Sure I can. The only point you made with any kind of objectivity is the fact that the translation fails numerous times to adequately convey the original script. It's admittedly really bad, despite its charm. The rest of your points are strictly subjective and I disagree with them.

I adore VI, it was the first FF I ever played and I fell completely in love with it. But VII took it to the next level in every way, and the series never got that good again imo.

 

[IFireflyl]

The variety, Materia, the elaborate storytelling, that death, the sheer human endeavour in it is unlike anything we've seen before or since.

The variety of what?

Materia is just magic and abilities being equipped instead of being learned or innate (something that was in all previous Final Fantasy games). It's a unique way of doing what was done in all previous Final Fantasy games, but that doesn't make Final Fantasy VII the gold-standard above the previous Final Fantasy games. In fact, I would argue that Final Fantasy IX did an even better job of this. You would learn magic/abilities by equipping weapons/armor/accessories, and once learned you could always equip the learned magic/abilities without having to keep the weapon/armor/accessory equipped.

Sure there are good parts to the story, but that doesn't mean you just ignore the convoluted plot or the parts of the story that make no sense (like the part I mentioned).

We've never seen an emotional story in a video game before or since Final Fantasy VII? Is Final Fantasy VII the only RPG/JRPG you've ever played? There are plenty of other compelling and engaging stories in video games.

Sure I can. The only point you made with any kind of objectivity is the fact that the translation fails numerous times to adequately convey the original script. It's admittedly really bad, despite its charm. The rest of your points are strictly subjective and I disagree with them.

The only objective point I made was the translation failure? Did you skim my post?

• Translation
• Job classes
• Equipment
  • Previous Final Fantasy games were able to collect and equip a much wider range of weapons and gear. Helmets, 1-handed weapons, 2-handed weapons, shields, armor, pants/leggings, shoes, and accessories. Final Fantasy VII lets you equip one weapon, one armor, and one accessory.

None of those points are subjective.

I adore VI, it was the first FF I ever played and I fell completely in love with it. But VII took it to the next level in every way, and the series never got that good again imo.

Again, like/love Final Fantasy VII all you want. But you're calling it a masterpiece and handwaving away all of its faults. Final Fantasy X and Final Fantasy VIII are two of my favorite video games (not just Final Fantasy games) of all time, but I'm not going to pretend that they are masterpieces. They both have serious faults, just like Final Fantasy VII, that precludes them from being called masterpieces.

Final Fantasy VII's faults aren't trivial. The translation alone should be enough to knock it out of "masterpiece" status, but the other issues (including the plot!) ensure that "masterpiece" doesn't apply to Final Fantasy VII. Which is still a great game. Just not a masterpiece.

 

[pleaseinsertdisctwo]

Final Fantasy VIII is either my favorite FF or one of my top 3. I’m not sure.


But FFVIII is not hated. It’s just contentious, and tbh, understandably so

 

[PaddyOCanager]

It's my favorite but it's incredibly flawed and borderline broken. The story is insane. It's obvious why people don't like it, but I wouldn't say it's hated. It deserves the reputation it has.

 

[Neff]

Just not a masterpiece.

Well I think it is and you'll just have to accept it.

 

[IFireflyl]

Well I think it is and you'll just have to accept it.

I feel like you just Ron Swanson'd me.

I think your criteria for "masterpiece" is extremely flawed, but I'll agree to disagree.

 

[Neff]

I feel like you just Ron Swanson'd me.

Okay maybe I was a bit abrupt. And since I originally quoted you and you want me to explain more, I will.

The variety- there's nothing like it. The game throws constant surprises at you. This is long before the term 'minigame' became a dirty word, and genre variety was not only accepted but welcome. The game is asking you to do weird, fun stuff completely unrelated to the core battle system frequently, far more than any other game in the series, or any RPG for that matter. Additionally, the scale of visual variety is off the charts. It's a game of worlds within worlds. While VIII and IX were certainly not lacking in varied, memorable environments, FFVII contains more than one can keep track of. Even minor, one-time visit rooms are full of unique details. The cyberpunk-y gloom of Midgar is endlessly appealing, I could bask in it for days. They knew they were doing a once-in-a-lifetime thing and went the extra mile.

Materia- It's a unique way to combine and duplicate abilities, while being limited by equipment grades. It's an extremely elegant yet customisable system, managing to be straightforward and deep at the same time. It's a shame that most of the stuff which lets you get really creative is only available towards the end of the game, but as a system I still don't think they've topped it.

We've never seen an emotional story in a video game before or since Final Fantasy VII?

I didn't say this and it's silly of you to suggest it. But up until VII I thought VI was the peak of emotional roller coasters in RPGs. VII goes several steps beyond, and I'm not just talking about 'that moment', but the way the characters reacted to it -immediately and after- was more hard-hitting than anything in VI.

But you're calling it a masterpiece and handwaving away all of its faults.

Firstly, I don't consider FFVII to have serious faults. You cite the lack of jobs and reduced equipment types as negatives, but when I play FFVII I tend to give characters roles which benefit from their equipment and stats, no different from any other RPG. Same with battle formation and strategy. Because there are less equipment types to choose from, it doesn't necessarily make it an inferior experience, just a less fragmented one. And if anything, I actually give more thought to equipment in VII than (for example) VI due to Materia slots, XP gain and whatnot. In any other game I'll just pick the equipment with the best stat, but in VII I'll be planning for Materia combos and farming.

Secondly, a masterpiece can have faults. Nothing is 'flawless'.

 

[Azelover]

A lot of people defended FFXII, which is one of the reasons I got it at full price. So I will never understand why FFVIII gets hated. I think it's awesome.

 

[IFireflyl]

Firstly, I don't consider FFVII to have serious faults.

I can't get over this.

First of all, the localization issue is a SERIOUS fault. It's bad enough in English with the many spelling and grammatical errors, but other languages are even worse. Heck, in Spanish they misgender people, and they translated party (as in party member) to fiesta. The localization is a serious fault, and that is why people went through the trouble of spending YEARS correcting the translation issues. Heck, they got one of your main party member's name wrong.

Secondly, the story inconsistencies are rampant. Why does Tifa ignore Cloud's blatant lies about what happend to their hometown and let him live a lie? Most of the game is Cloud in a state of psychosis that his childhood friend just lets slide. How did Shinra draining the planet of the Lifestream not trigger the Lifestream to spawn weapons way sooner? It literally waited until Meteor was summoned to spawn the Weapons, and they weren't even able to locate Sephiroth. Who/what is Jenova? Why is is on Gaia? What is its purpose? We literally know nothing about Jenova from the game other than its E.T. The story is filled with holes and inconsistencies, and half-contrived plots. (Although its still better than Final Fantasy XV's train wreck of a story.)

Thirdly, you can disregard the job classes all you want, but the job classes are better. That's why they moved back to job classes after Final Fantasy VIII. Final Fantasy IX, X, XII all used the job classes again. They. Were. Better.

 

[Neff]

I can't get over this.

That's too bad.

They. Were. Better.

I disagree. The best games in the series for me are the ones which don't follow a rigid job system and allow me to allocate roles myself. I have nothing against the job system, and I like games which use it, but I prefer deciding the roles and balancing a party based on my preference.

 

[gamepro3093]

Because it’s a dreadful boring game with bad gameplay and bad innovations like drawing and junctioning which just make it a chore to play, a terrible and poorly structured plot with laughably bad plot twists, boring and wooden characters and combat is pretty much discouraged because the more you level up the harder the game gets. Just a dreadful game in general. It has nice FMVs and a good soundtrack but everything else about it isn’t good. 13 and 15, while also being bad games, are preferable to 8.

 

[gamepro3093]

JUNCTIONING

(I actually love FF8 but there's a reason why no subsequent JRPG has ever copied that system.)

I can see why. It’s a great strain on the player’s patience and makes the game an unnecessary grind and requires too much micromanaging in perhaps some of the most dreadfully dry menus I’ve ever seen. It’s also pointless as just using a traditional level up system and more straightforward abilities system like materia or using a skill tree is more effective and easier to understand and work with.

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

In retrospect VIII was a fine game (it's certainly better than any mainline FF we've had in the past. . .15 years?). But it came on the heels of FFVI, FFVII, and Tactics, and shortly before FFIX. It just doesn't compare favorably to those games. The story is adolescent and melodramatic, the gameplay is horrendously balanced and incentivizes keeping yourself at a low level and repetitively drawing magic from monsters instead of playing the game normally.

 

[gamepro3093]

I mean there is literally a way to win FFVII without touching the controller if you know how to abuse the Materia system.
The story got a bit weird but I actually liked VIII more than VII when they first released. Intergrade has done a lot to change that but I still like original VIII more than VII.

Also who the hell hates VIII?

I do. It’s a dreadful game. I feel like it’s designed to actively annoy anyone who likes good games in general with good gameplay , at least decent stories and good characters. It’s like an anti RPG RPG like 13 and 15 were but those games annoyed me a little less than 8 did. Going from 7 to 8 hurt, similar to going from Devil May Cry to Devil May Cry 2. 9 and 10 and half of 12 made up for 8 for a while until 8’s children , 13 and 15, came around to wreak havoc once more.

 

[gamepro3093]

The romance development is pretty bad and forced. Squal never really seems interested and then out of nowhere falls in love with her.

I agree. I didn’t buy it either. It seemed like a forced means to make Squall grow as a character which i was annoyed by. Rinoa is just some man’s tool. A man who was a royal dick to her for most of the game. She should’ve left him sooner.

 

[gamepro3093]

I don’t mind the characters and story. Its Sqauresoft take on a love story. But gameplay was ass. The draw system was garbage.

I didn’t like the characters or story either. The romance rang false to me, meaning the big thing it was putting most of it’s money on working was a failure in my eyes. The characters were very uninteresting and cliched in general. I don’t see what merits 8 has when almost everything it did was a flop.

 

[Yoboman]

9 isn't better than 8 if you have no affinity with the earlier (high fantasy) franchise entries in the series. If you came in with 7, 8 felt like a natural progression, and 9 a massive regression into childishness. Its like the Hobbit versus LOTR.

Also, I wish people would stop making excuses for 9 having the worst battle-system of any FF since the SNES era. Its slow, dull, bloated with an inflated number of status ailments (never repeated), and generally not even interesting, let alone good.

My first was 8, then I played 7 followed by 9. 9 was amazing

 

[gamepro3093]

Better story and world than FFIX, worse gameplay though.

I thought they were worse but I’m not saying IX’s were great either. IX’s were just more appealing to me. I found VIII’s story entirely lackluster and the world dull and lacking vibrancy.

 

[Y0ssarian]

Everyone started to parrot Spoony

 

[GenericUser]

Squaresoft made FF8 as "anti FF7" as possible. The problem is, people loved FF7 and simply wanted more of the same. I personally like it a lot, despite of its flaws.

 

[GeeseGoose]

When it first released, I remember grinding for hours to get to level 99 and fully junction / learn GF abilities somewhere just after getting Irving.

Oh boy was I shocked that the enemies scaled

Still a fantastic entry to the series though.

 

[cartman414]

9 isn't better than 8 if you have no affinity with the earlier (high fantasy) franchise entries in the series. If you came in with 7, 8 felt like a natural progression, and 9 a massive regression into childishness. Its like the Hobbit versus LOTR.

Also, I wish people would stop making excuses for 9 having the worst battle-system of any FF since the SNES era. Its slow, dull, bloated with an inflated number of status ailments (never repeated), and generally not even interesting, let alone good.

Since the SNES era? The SNES era games (though IV had issues) had better, quicker battle systems.

Okay maybe I was a bit abrupt. And since I originally quoted you and you want me to explain more, I will.

The variety- there's nothing like it. The game throws constant surprises at you. This is long before the term 'minigame' became a dirty word, and genre variety was not only accepted but welcome. The game is asking you to do weird, fun stuff completely unrelated to the core battle system frequently, far more than any other game in the series, or any RPG for that matter. Additionally, the scale of visual variety is off the charts. It's a game of worlds within worlds. While VIII and IX were certainly not lacking in varied, memorable environments, FFVII contains more than one can keep track of. Even minor, one-time visit rooms are full of unique details. The cyberpunk-y gloom of Midgar is endlessly appealing, I could bask in it for days. They knew they were doing a once-in-a-lifetime thing and went the extra mile.

Materia- It's a unique way to combine and duplicate abilities, while being limited by equipment grades. It's an extremely elegant yet customisable system, managing to be straightforward and deep at the same time. It's a shame that most of the stuff which lets you get really creative is only available towards the end of the game, but as a system I still don't think they've topped it.



I didn't say this and it's silly of you to suggest it. But up until VII I thought VI was the peak of emotional roller coasters in RPGs. VII goes several steps beyond, and I'm not just talking about 'that moment', but the way the characters reacted to it -immediately and after- was more hard-hitting than anything in VI.



Firstly, I don't consider FFVII to have serious faults. You cite the lack of jobs and reduced equipment types as negatives, but when I play FFVII I tend to give characters roles which benefit from their equipment and stats, no different from any other RPG. Same with battle formation and strategy. Because there are less equipment types to choose from, it doesn't necessarily make it an inferior experience, just a less fragmented one. And if anything, I actually give more thought to equipment in VII than (for example) VI due to Materia slots, XP gain and whatnot. In any other game I'll just pick the equipment with the best stat, but in VII I'll be planning for Materia combos and farming.

Secondly, a masterpiece can have faults. Nothing is 'flawless'.

The Materia system, as said elsewhere, made the characters mostly interchangeable. With the job systems/class-defined characters in other games you had to put a lot more thought into your party lineups and configs.

My first and favourite FF, loved the music, Faye Wong song, and emo Squall. Forget the haters, after 9 I never played another FF again. Now I’m waiting for the remake after 7 is done. Fuck the haters, fuck’ em!

So you only played 8 and 9?

Your words hold no water.

 

[Knightime_X]

 

[kubricks]

Because the junction/draw system is confusing and counter intuitive, in a game where battle and using this system is all you do to progress.
I honestly think that's all to it, should it have a more traditional system or more similar to VI or VII, the game will be received better.

 

[GymWolf]

I like it way more than ff10, 12 or ff7 remake.

 

[gamepro3093]

Squaresoft made FF8 as "anti FF7" as possible. The problem is, people loved FF7 and simply wanted more of the same. I personally like it a lot, despite of its flaws.

First big mistake. Taking one of their biggest success stories and making a game that is the polar opposite of it and not in any particularly good way.

 

[AngelMuffin]

I don’t think it’s hated, it’s just not as good as 4, 6, 7, 9…and maybe 10. It’s still a solid FF game but it had the unenviable task of trying to beat the juggernaut that was FF7.

 

[Moochi]

I played it when it came out. A lot of the complaints at the time were that the Junction system was too big of a departure. People at large wanted FF7 again with some slight improvements, not a wacky off the wall system that involved cards. In retrospect, they were totally wrong. The cards are the best part of FF8 and 9. There were few complaints about the story or the presentation, although there was a large contingent of people crying out for the chibi-style. Didn't make sense to me because FF7 uses a variety of character models and the chibi-characters were obviously only used because of technical constraints.

 

[cartman414]

I don’t think it’s hated, it’s just not as good as 4, 6, 7, 9…and maybe 10. It’s still a solid FF game but it had the unenviable task of trying to beat the juggernaut that was FF7.

Do people skip or not mention 5 because it wasn't released at the time?

 

[AngelMuffin]

Do people skip or not mention 5 because it wasn't released at the time?

Probably has a lot to do with it. I played through it on the GBA a while back and I thought the job system was fun but I thought it lacked in story, memorable characters, and main villain when compared to 4/6.

Fun fact, FF5 was initially going to be named Final Fantasy Extreme since they thought it was going to be too difficult for Western audiences.

 

[SkylineRKR]

I said it before but VIII is one of my best. Its a very fun game to break. Battling a lot can work against you though, esp if you don't use certain status up bonuses. But you can beat it by playing normally. Its just less broken easy.

VIII was unfortunate in that it had to succeed VII. VII was for many the first FF. And I guess a lot of them expected more adventures from this particular cast. VIII was a huge departure from that.

But if you know VIII, you can do some crazy shit. As soon as you can traverse the map, you can gear up and become OP. Even more so when you get Siren, which isn't much later. You can get stats that carry you through half the game even if you don't improve at all anymore. If you play cards and refine them, you can do even more. At Deling City, I had Lionheart and like 5k health or so and also some other decent stats. I couldn't lose, even if I wanted to. The enemies just did too little damage.

A comparable game is Birth by Sleep. If you meld commands you can get OP end game spells early game. Personally I like this. You don't have to do it, but its fun for second runs.

 

[cartman414]

Probably has a lot to do with it. I played through it on the GBA a while back and I thought the job system was fun but I thought it lacked in story, memorable characters, and main villain when compared to 4/6.

Fun fact, FF5 was initially going to be named Final Fantasy Extreme since they thought it was going to be too difficult for Western audiences.

I could care less about the story/character part given that the gameplay is arguably the best in the series. Most of the games, and most games in general, aren't really all that great in terms of storytelling anyways. I cringe when people dismiss V solely on storytelling while letting lesser games get away with gameplay sins because story (even when the story and characters still have issues). They can like what they want though I guess.

 

[AngelMuffin]

I could care less about the story/character part given that the gameplay is arguably the best in the series. Most of the games, and most games in general, aren't really all that great in terms of storytelling anyways. I cringe when people dismiss V solely on storytelling while letting lesser games get away with gameplay sins because story (even when the story and characters still have issues). They can like what they want though I guess.

I agree that it deserves more love than it gets and definitely should not be dismissed. To me it’s a must play for the FF series. Shoot, you may have inspired me to play through it again. Having said that, it is an RPG and story is more important than other types of games, especially for the time it was released.

 

[MangalaX]

Thing I loved:
-The intro Fittos Liberty still etched in my mind how awesome it was and Epic, I still listen to it from time to time
-For some reason the military fanfare intro song before the menu starts was awesome too.
-The Gunblade!
-The Airship design...and what a name RAGNAROK!
-Kind of the focus of the love story between the main characters
-Laguna's story, would have love to play more with him and his crew
-The card game! omg I played it for hours on end (This or Blitz ball, difficult to decide)

HATED:
-Yeah the paycheck system...
-The plot twist biggest coincidence in gaming we need better writers bullshit
-Selphie....

So in the end even if the game is hated by some it still brings back good memories of another time and space when FF didn't have voice acting in the cutscenes or anywhere.

 

[BreakOut]

Setting up an entire system to draw magic, and then use it is inconvenient and boring. Sacrificing commands on a character so you can pull cure spells out of the tree is dumb. That is the biggest reason for it, turning magic into this weird item/equipment system is just so far away from what is normal and fun. Sometimes a complex system isn’t better than a simple one, it’s just too over developed.

 

[Captain Toad]

A major part of why I loved Final Fantasy and JRPGs was building my characters stronger through fighting enemies.

Final Fantasy almost always gives you two ways to tackle bosses - either get a well, planned out strategy prior to starting the fight, or just level up and out muscle your foe. You know that every random battle you fight is making you stronger and making subsequent bosses less of a hurdle.

But, 8 punishes you for leveling up. You are literally better just sitting at enemies, drawing magic (which is boring AF) and then running away. After you've drawn the magic you need, you just run. Or you go through the trouble of killing the enemies with the reward of making your life more difficult.

 

[ssringo]

Oh hey, I remember this thread! Good job past me!

For me it's almost entirely the characters. I do not like any of them in their own game (FF8) although I do like several of them based on their appearances in other games (Squall, Quistis and Rinoa).

Though I have to admit one of my favorite lines from a video game ever comes from FF8

 

[RoboFu]

Because it sucks..

But also it was the first big transition away from the original FF style …. The guch was off doing the film .. and the biggest issue I think is unlike FF7 which had a strong opening and first half.. the first half of 8 was some horrible school anime bs ...

 

[German Hops]

A major part of why I loved Final Fantasy and JRPGs was building my characters stronger through fighting enemies.

Final Fantasy almost always gives you two ways to tackle bosses - either get a well, planned out strategy prior to starting the fight, or just level up and out muscle your foe. You know that every random battle you fight is making you stronger and making subsequent bosses less of a hurdle.

But, 8 punishes you for leveling up. You are literally better just sitting at enemies, drawing magic (which is boring AF) and then running away. After you've drawn the magic you need, you just run. Or you go through the trouble of killing the enemies with the reward of making your life more difficult.

Aye, I would love to see a FFVIII re-do, with a more traditional leveling system to get things rightly balanced. That would be awesome.

 

[Yamisan]

By having a horrible story and even worse gameplay. Oh, don't forget the terrible character design, it didn't feel like a FF game at all except for the great music.

 

[German Hops]

By having a horrible story

You didn't comprehend the story.
That's fine, but just admit it.