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[StreetsofBeige]

Reading these comments, it is abundantly clear that a lot of you don’t understand that Sony and Nintendo are trying to run a profitable business model. They can’t rely on other sources of income to balance the accounts.

Sony makes about $12 billion profit per year. Gaming is about $3 billion. Nintendo is the only pure play business model in gaming.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Reading these comments, it is abundantly clear that a lot of you don’t understand that Sony and Nintendo are trying to run a profitable business model. They can’t rely on other sources of income to balance the accounts.

This is why, if Sony(playstation) has been genuine in their statements, they gotta show the recipes, otherwise they gonna end up like the crying/whining/spolied child.

 

[ZehDon]

From AUD$125.00 first party games that no one else was doing, to actually raising the price of their hardware when no one else did, Sony doesn't give a fuck about gamers. COD drives PSN, and they're stuck watching their golden goose fly away. Despite all their blustering about "gamers", COD is clearly foundationally important to Sony - not just PlayStation, but Sony (25% of Sony's profits). Sony was only too happy to lock up games for its PlayStation division - including some Microsoft owned titles, funnily enough - to prevent their competitors from competing, and even snagged juggernauts like Final Fantasy for as long as they could afford. Microsoft is just doing the same - they're simply able to afford to do more.

 

[Chiggs]

At this point, Microsoft’s strategy will be to scoop up all smaller developers and wall them off to Sony.

I do think Jim should have just kept his mouth shut.

 

[GHG]

Based on 2021 publisher of the year Microsoft?

Maybe they're just not making the kinds of games you enjoy.

At this point I question the sincerity of anyone who references this. Are we supposed to ignore the fact that they have failed to produce anything for their customers this year and the fact that for the best part of a decade prior they were far below expectations for the vast majority of their releases?

Halo Infinite was also GOTY here of all places and we all know how well that accolade has aged. At this point, alomst 12 months later, it's intellectually dishonest to parrot "publisher of the year" when they have reverted straight back to type since.

It's like people who referenced Dragon Age Inquisition as GOTY in 2014 in the years after ffs. "Bioware know what they are doing" I remember people saying in the years after. All while people saying that ignored the fact that they made the "GOTY" during the shittest year for gaming for the best part of a decade. Context and consistency matter.

/rant over

 

[Gudji]

I appreciate Sony for keeping me entertained during this entire process.

Sony always delivers what xbox can't.

 

[Menzies]

At this point I question the sincerity of anyone who references this. Are we supposed to ignore the fact that they have failed to produce anything for their customers this year and the fact that for the best part of a decade prior they were far below expectations for the vast majority of their releases?

Halo Infinite was also GOTY here of all places and we all know how well that accolade has aged. At this point, alomst 12 months later, it's intellectually dishonest to parrot "publisher of the year" when they have reverted straight back to type since.

It's like people who referenced Dragon Age Inquisition as GOTY in 2014 in the years after ffs. "Bioware know what they are doing" I remember people saying in the years after. All while people saying that ignored the fact that they made the "GOTY" during the shittest year for gaming for the best part of a decade. Context and consistency matter.

/rant over

Rant all you want about their output this year. I'll jump the fence and rant with you.

Not sure what that has to do with recent and upcoming investment and quality.

Yesteryear Microsoft proved that they were in the Xbox business up to their big toe, let's see what happens once they're 'all in'.

 

[Markio128]

Sony makes about $12 billion profit per year. Gaming is about $3 billion. Nintendo is the only pure play business model in gaming.

But my point still stands. Sony don’t rely on other sectors to fund their gaming business. There is no way MS could afford to run their gaming division like they do without profit gained from their non-console related products. MS can afford to be disruptive - Sony and Nintendo can’t.

 

[reinking]

I appreciate Sony for keeping me entertained during this entire process.

No new games to play during this time to keep you entertained?

 

[Kagey K]

But my point still stands. Sony don’t rely on other sectors to fund their gaming business. There is no way MS could afford to run their gaming division like they do without profit gained from their non-console related products. MS can afford to be disruptive - Sony and Nintendo can’t.

There have been multiple points where PlayStation has needed and depended om outside funds from other divisions.

 

[Kagey K]

No new games to play during this time to keep you entertained?

I have lots to play, can't do it while I'm at work tho.

Thanks for caring.

 

[Gudji]

No new games to play during this time to keep you entertained?

Next year.

 

[GHG]

Rant all you want about their output this year. I'll jump the fence and rant with you.

Not sure what that has to do with recent and upcoming investment and quality.

Yesteryear Microsoft proved that they were in the Xbox business up to their big toe, let's see what happens once they're 'all in'.

Recent quality? This year their quality is 0 because they have released 0.

They've had years like last year before. It's just that those years didn't coincide with a covid ravaged industry.

First of all they need to replicate what they did last year every year at the bare minimum and they need to step it up and increase the quality (because from where I'm sitting they were lucky to be afforded the benefit of the doubt when it came to the Halo Infinite reviews).

At the end of the day the results will speak for themselves - do what's required and subscribers (along with hardware sales) will increase tenfold. People excusing them with this "publisher of the year" PR nonsense are doing them no favours. At this rate you'll have people still referencing "publisher of the year 2021" deep in to 2023.

 

[C2brixx]

At this point I question the sincerity of anyone who references this. Are we supposed to ignore the fact that they have failed to produce anything for their customers this year and the fact that for the best part of a decade prior they were far below expectations for the vast majority of their releases?

Halo Infinite was also GOTY here of all places and we all know how well that accolade has aged. At this point, alomst 12 months later, it's intellectually dishonest to parrot "publisher of the year" when they have reverted straight back to type since.

It's like people who referenced Dragon Age Inquisition as GOTY in 2014 in the years after ffs. "Bioware know what they are doing" I remember people saying in the years after. All while people saying that ignored the fact that they made the "GOTY" during the shittest year for gaming for the best part of a decade. Context and consistency matter.

/rant over

To be fair to Microsoft their fiscal year is July 1-June 30. There was quite a few big title from Microsoft in the July 2021-June 2022 time frame and if things ship as scheduled there will be a plethora of titles coming fiscal year 2023.

 

[Markio128]

There have been multiple points where PlayStation has needed and depended om outside funds from other divisions.

I think that is understandable when starting a new venture, but I imagine that Sony has more recently leaned on their gaming division to help other divisions.

 

[Stuart360]

Next year.

 

[Kagey K]

I think that is understandable when starting a new venture, but I imagine that Sony has more recently leaned on their gaming division to to help other divisions.

Ps3 is just starting a new venture? The financial division kept PS afloat for most of that gen.

Some ppl really don't remember how bad the losses were.

 

[Markio128]

Ps3 is just starting a new venture? The financial division kept PS afloat for most of that gen.

Some ppl really don't remember how bad the losses were.

I don’t think their financial division would have helped them through the 360 debacle.

 

[Ozzie666]

This continues to be ridiculous coming from Sony who has a history of exclusives, locking out competition, locking out cross play. Dating back to Tomb Raider 2 in 1997 and blocking Saturn. Now the tables are turned and Sony the king of first party block busters, is too dependent on Call of Duty. Microsoft shouldn't pay for Sony's stupidity and desperation. I'm not a Call of Duty player or fan, so it doesn't affect me. But having Diablo and Overwatch on Game pass does interest me.

 

[Dolomite]

Who are they protecting us from

 

[Kagey K]

I don’t think their financial division would have helped them through the 360 debacle.

Again you forget just how bad the losses were.

Here's from 2012 when things were looking up and it's still 2.8B for the division that year.
https://www.playstationlifestyle.ne...-sales-drop-year-on-year-to-13-9-million/amp/

In 2009 it had lost 4.7B since launch.

https://www.tomsguide.com/us/playstation-ps3-sony-losses-slim,news-4996.html

In 2013 ppl say 360 and PS3 lost 8B combined. Meaning Sony lost way more than the 360 and RROD did

https://www.vg247.com/xbox-360-and-ps3-losses-total-8-billion-ex-sony-employee-paints-grim-future

Long story short thier financial division propped Playstation up much harder than MS propped up the 360 and RROD.

But let's not let facts get in the way of a good narrative.

 

[BattleScar]

After reviewing the math Sony is realizing how much market share MS will gain from the monopolistic move lol. Unfortunately Jim and company did this to themselves because the deal will go through so it's too late for them to flounder now.

"Jim and company did this to themselves"

Fucking how? Exactly what could they do to stop ABK from being purchased by Microsoft?

 

[Markio128]

Again you forget just how bad the losses were.

Here's from 2012 when things were looking up and it's still 2.8B for the division that year.
https://www.playstationlifestyle.ne...-sales-drop-year-on-year-to-13-9-million/amp/

In 2009 it had lost 4.7B since launch.

https://www.tomsguide.com/us/playstation-ps3-sony-losses-slim,news-4996.html

In 2013 ppl say 360 and PS3 lost 8B combined. Meaning Sony lost way more than the 360 and RROD did

https://www.vg247.com/xbox-360-and-ps3-losses-total-8-billion-ex-sony-employee-paints-grim-future

Long story short thier financial division propped Playstation up much harder than MS propped up the 360 and RROD.

But let's not let facts get in the way of a good narrative.

Okay, I’ll go along with that, but how much profit did the PS1 and PS2 make, prior to the PS3 disaster?

 

[Markio128]

"Jim and company did this to themselves"

Fucking how? Exactly what could they do to stop ABK from being purchased by Microsoft?

And what was stopping MS from buying the occasional exclusive game, like Sony has been accused of?

 

[Kagey K]

Okay, I’ll go along with that, but how much profit did the PS1 and PS2 make, prior to the PS3 disaster?

They lost ot all on the ps3.

It's all right here.
https://www.engadget.com/2008-08-19-the-sony-reciprocal-ps3-losses-surpass-ps2-profits.html

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Again you forget just how bad the losses were.

Here's from 2012 when things were looking up and it's still 2.8B for the division that year.
https://www.playstationlifestyle.ne...-sales-drop-year-on-year-to-13-9-million/amp/

In 2009 it had lost 4.7B since launch.

https://www.tomsguide.com/us/playstation-ps3-sony-losses-slim,news-4996.html

In 2013 ppl say 360 and PS3 lost 8B combined. Meaning Sony lost way more than the 360 and RROD did

https://www.vg247.com/xbox-360-and-ps3-losses-total-8-billion-ex-sony-employee-paints-grim-future

Long story short thier financial division propped Playstation up much harder than MS propped up the 360 and RROD.

But let's not let facts get in the way of a good narrative.

Sony's track record of gaming profits is actually lousy. Excluding the past 4-5 years when digital sales and mtx shot through the roof (with help from covid too) while brick and mortar stores tanked in sales, Sony's profit from PS1 to the first bunch of years of PS4 were basically a wash. PS3 lost all or most of the profits PS1 and PS2 did. Maybe a little profit, but not much. So for the first ~20 years of PS gaming, the total profit was barely anything. Too lazy to find that bar chart which showed Gaming Division profit per year but it showed it.

The whole shift to digital and mtx revenue helped everyone, so that's why so many gaming companies have reported sky high profits the past few years.

 

[Clear]

Clear i didn't want to respond to your last response because those goalposts were well and truly on the move so I thought I'd take it back to the original point.

Everything you said there can be flipped at Sony and also be true. I wasn't saying you were incorrect in accusing MS of those things just that Sony is just as bad. Both have done things to grow the industry and both have spent a lot of money to try and stifle the competition. Maybe you are just too invested to the point where you think that if someone says something negative about your favourite brand that it automatically means they are saying the opposite for the competing brand. Its OK to be critical of all these big companies.

Respectfully, I disagree on the basis of the perspective I outlined in post #475.

I feel like you're looking perhaps too narrowly, at a product level when I feel the crucial difference is overall commercial strategy. GamePass/Xcloud represents an attempt to establish a new commercial order for the industry, one in which MS cloud technology and storefronts are the nexus through which everything passes.

I don't fault MS for their ambition in the least, business is business. But my considered opinion is that it'll result in a far less appealing scene than we have today. I don't feel like the rise of streaming services has improved music, tv, or movies as artforms and I believe due to the economics it'll impact games far more than any of those other mediums.

My only real "problem" with Xbox is that I feel like they've underperformed on content generation since around the mid-point of the 360 era. Which is why I bring it up as a possible point of concern should they become market-leader.

And PSVR, yes I think that is one of the good things that Sony are doing to grow the industry. Its brought vr to console and lowered the barrier to entry. Getting this tech into the hands and onto the heads of people who otherwise wouldn't have the opportunity is great and Sony are investing and putting time into not only the hardware but the software too.

The value of PSVR2 is that it lends support and visibility to the overall VR-entertainment market. It should help VR grow as its existence encourages more developers to try their hand at an exciting and new technology.

Personally I see Gamepass and Xcloud like that too. It lowers the barrier of entry and allows people play a lot of games they possibly wouldn't otherwise have access to and even takes away the need completely for expensive specialised hardware. Surely even you can see that this is growing the industry when it's making gaming more accessible to a wider demographic than traditional console or PCs?

The problem with this argument is that its predicated on the idea that user-numbers are the thing that matters. When to me its all about the quality and variety of the content.

Look at the size of the mobile market and the insane amount of revenue it generates. In 2022 mobile is 51% of the total gaming market by revenue, but is that dominance reflected in the quality and variety of the product?

I really don't think it is.

My overriding concern is that the market and economic forces that shaped today's mobile scene will come to bear equally forcefully when the "traditional" gaming market becomes almost totally digitally distributed and operating via online storefronts.

 

[Markio128]

They lost ot all on the ps3.

It's all right here.
https://www.engadget.com/2008-08-19-the-sony-reciprocal-ps3-losses-surpass-ps2-profits.html

That reads like it is only talking about console hardware profits - and the final paragraph does not paint MS in a better light.
And that only mentions PS2, not PS1.

 

[Nocturno999]

Sony's hipocrisy is through the roof, but it's true.

 

[Kagey K]

Sony's track record of gaming profits is actually lousy. Excluding the past 4-5 years when digital sales and mtx shot through the roof (with help from covid too) while brick and mortar stores tanked in sales, Sony's profit from PS1 to the first bunch of years of PS4 were basically a wash. PS3 lost all or most of the profits PS1 and PS2 did. Maybe a little profit, but not much. So for the first ~20 years of PS gaming, the total profit was barely anything. Too lazy to find that bar chart which showed Gaming Division profit per year but it showed it.

The whole shift to digital and mtx revenue helped everyone, so that's why so many gaming companies have reported sky high profits the past few years.

I'm aware. I know exactly the graph you are referring to.

I just laugh at people who either aren't aware or ignore that Sony propped up Playstation for years with outside money, turn around and try to say it's unfair for MS to put money into Xbox.

A successful company will put money into struggling divisions to help them succeed.

 

[Yoboman]

I think MS should handle ABK like they handled Bethesda. Honor contracts, support titles that have already been released on other platforms and treat future titles on a case by case basis. There is no reason for them not to be able to fully control the studios they purchased.

Just signals that the only reason for the purchase is to lock out a specific competitor

 

[laynelane]

The assigning of emotional attributes towards Sony based on this and other statements is a bit on the bemusing side. They're trying to protect their business, MS is trying to expand theirs, etc. and so on. It's business all around for all parties involved.

 

[DForce]

This continues to be ridiculous coming from Sony who has a history of exclusives, locking out competition, locking out cross play. Dating back to Tomb Raider 2 in 1997 and blocking Saturn. Now the tables are turned and Sony the king of first party block busters, is too dependent on Call of Duty. Microsoft shouldn't pay for Sony's stupidity and desperation. I'm not a Call of Duty player or fan, so it doesn't affect me. But having Diablo and Overwatch on Game pass does interest me.

Sega acquired exclusive deals before Sony
Microsoft acquired exclusive deals when they decided to go into the console business.

People need to stop trying to act like Sony started this while pretending MS never acquired any console-exclusive titles within the past 20 years.

 

[Kagey K]

That reads like it is only talking about console hardware profits - and the final paragraph does not paint MS in a better light.
And that only mentions PS2, not PS1.

There's plenty more sources out there. I'm not going to keep digging when I've already proved my point.

 

[Menzies]

Recent quality? This year their quality is 0 because they have released 0.

They've had years like last year before. It's just that those years didn't coincide with a covid ravaged industry.

First of all they need to replicate what they did last year every year at the bare minimum and they need to step it up and increase the quality (because from where I'm sitting they were lucky to be afforded the benefit of the doubt when it came to the Halo Infinite reviews).

At the end of the day the results will speak for themselves - do what's required and subscribers (along with hardware sales) will increase tenfold. People excusing them with this "publisher of the year" PR nonsense are doing them no favours. At this rate you'll have people still referencing "publisher of the year 2021" deep in to 2023.

You could make the argument if all they're concerned with is pushing content, then Starfield and Redfall would have been released this year.

Not making excuses for their 2022.

People need to stop trying to act like Sony started this while pretending MS never acquired any console-exclusive titles within the past 20 years.

Everyone's done it, and is doing it. Absolutely right. However, current market realities are such that Sony has a running start with cheaper deals for such exclusive terms. Tomb Raider 100 million for one year, and the studio sells for just 3 times that? No wonder they move to M&A.

 

[Corndog]

That's the wrong way to look at it. How and from where you buy the games is the whole point.

Its like arguing that buying from Amazon is the same as getting stuff from an independent local game retailer. You need to factor in network effects, which is the underpinning of all these engagement metrics. The idea being that if you hold people's attention long enough with one product category, it makes it easy to expand out into adjacent/related ones.

In digital commerce its not just about inventory, its about the storefront and how that can spotlight products selectively.

Your analogy doesn’t make sense. Either way you are paying Microsoft and the developer. If you chose not to use Amazon then Amazon doesn’t make money.

 

[Markio128]

There's plenty more sources out there. I'm not going to keep digging when I've already proved my point.

You’ve only proven that you will defend MS whatever the cost. If you believe that any xbox success can justify their spending spree, then I‘m flogging a dead horse.

 

[Kagey K]

You’ve only proven that you will defend MS whatever the cost. If you believe that any xbox success can justify their spending spree, then I‘m flogging a dead horse.

I've already explained multiple times I am personally invested in this going through for my own personal financial gain. Activision stock is a no brainer as you will make 20.00 (18.17 with today's close) per share when the deal closes.

I bought in at 74 and keep adding when I get paid.

 

[MScarpa]

It's already a done deal. You would think people here would know not to doubt it, but they'll have to find out the way they did when they thought Microsoft would never make Starfield or Elder Scrolls 6 exclusive because they "needed to make their money back." They've been wrong this whole gen.

Those people are all quiet now, but we know who they are

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Everyone's done it, and is doing it. Absolutely right. However, current market realities are such that Sony has a running start with cheaper deals for such exclusive terms. Tomb Raider 100 million for one year, and the studio sells for just 3 times that? No wonder they move to M&A.

Microsoft has spent just shy of 100B on M&A

That is 1000x the cost of Tomb Raider, three orders of magnitude larger

Microsoft did what nobody thought was even remotely plausible. The scale of some timed exclusives is comically insignificant compared to this

 

[Ozzie666]

Sega acquired exclusive deals before Sony
Microsoft acquired exclusive deals when they decided to go into the console business.

People need to stop trying to act like Sony started this while pretending MS never acquired any console-exclusive titles within the past 20 years

Well aware of this. But It's not Microsoft making the argument and on the offensive. I'd same the same for either side, because the whole thing is just stupid.
I honestly can't recall Sega doing this pre-Sony. First big title I remember causing exclusive drama was Mortal Kombat 3. Did Sega even have the money to do this?

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Microsoft did what nobody thought was even remotely plausible. The scale of some timed exclusives is comically insignificant compared to this

So what?

Since MS bought Mojang, Bethesda and Activision, how have any of these games changed on PS systems? Nothing so far. And dont forget the current COD deal goes to 2024 or 2025. So at minimum COD is still there for another 3-4 games.

Sony's timed deal for a game like Forsaken at 24 month exclusivity will do more walled garden effect than any of the MS/publisher games above combined so far.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

The assigning of emotional attributes towards Sony based on this and other statements is a bit on the bemusing side. They're trying to protect their business, MS is trying to expand theirs, etc. and so on. It's business all around for all parties involved.

Sony clearly sees the writing on the wall for their future. They don’t have the cash injections like these other trillion dollar corps. It’s not just MS they are worried about, but all of them snatching up publishers. They are making a desperate attempt to stop the deal or alter it in hopes that regulators do the same to other companies in the future. It’s a futile attempt but quite hilarious, money always wins.

Spoiler

In case it's confusing, I'm impersonating ResetERA user UnsungKing with this quote reply. I'm doing my part and taking the piss out of the dumbest fanboy posts on Reset so more people can see what their mods allows certain posters to get away with when it's criticism (thinly-veiled open hostility) directed towards Sony.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

So what?

Since MS bought Mojang, Bethesda and Activision, how have any of these games changed on PS systems? Nothing so far. And dont forget the current COD deal goes to 2024 or 2025. So at minimum COD is still there for another 3-4 games.

Sony's timed deal for a game like Forsaken at 24 month exclusivity will do more walled garden effect than any of the MS/publisher games above combined so far.

What?

Do you honestly think Forespoken
Is as big as Starfield?

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Well aware of this. But It's not Microsoft making the argument and on the offensive. I'd same the same for either side, because the whole thing is just stupid.
I honestly can't recall Sega doing this pre-Sony. First big title I remember causing exclusive drama was Mortal Kombat 3. Did Sega even have the money to do this?

Yes. They signed a limited-term exclusivity contract with Core Design to make several exclusives for the MegaDrive and Mega CD platforms. Before even that, Nintendo arguably made the first "big" timed exclusivity deal wit Street Fighter II's SNES port, locking out MegaDrive/Genesis and other platforms for a full year.

So if you want to be 100% about it, Nintendo and Sega (but especially Nintendo) established some of the conventions WRT 3P timed exclusivity and such we then have seen Sony and Microsoft build upon. If people want a possible worst-case nightmare scenario from what mass 3P dev/pub acquisitions COULD lead to, look no further than Nintendo's licensing clauses with 3P Japanese devs/pubs in the NES/Famicom era (which barely ever gets talked about).

 

[remember_spinal]

i feel like everytime theres a comment about this acquisition its restarts a thread that has the exact same arguments and examples laid out and it goes on and on.



At this point wouldn’t yall just rather wait for actual progress on it before arguing more about it?

 

[StreetsofBeige]

What?

Do you honestly think Forespoken
Is as big as Starfield?

Where did I say that?

How do you know MS wont port Starfield to PS later. What proof do yo have all games will be forever cut off when the current situation is there's been no difference in game availability? The only difference is the timed deal offer comes from MS, instead of Sony doing it to third parties. MS can just do the typical 1 year timed deal like what they both do to third parties. Maybe MS will do a 24 month deal offer like Forsaken.

And dont counter claim saying timed ports are impossible since Sony has ported their best selling franchises to PC years later. All of the best selling franchises will be ported by year end except Gran Tursimo. Insomniac years ago on Twitter even boldly told a user "Never" when asked if Spiderman will ever come to PC. Look at that, Spiderman and also MM are coming.

 

[DeepEnigma]

 

[DarkMage619]

How can I provide proof for something that I theorize could happen in the future?

It’s just speculating. I am not claiming it has happened yet. But in the drive to pump up subscription numbers the amount of content seems more important than the quality. Just look at Netflix for instance.

What incentive is there to invest a few hundred million into a 20 hour single player game if it’s day 1 on GamePass?

Well usually we fear something that is been showing signs of happening. Game quality dropping means fewer subscribers not more. Why would people pay for a service that has bad games? The reason a service like Game pass is successful is because it offers quality games at a fair price. But of course it is your right to fear something that hasn't happened.

I fear some things too. I fear successful game companies becoming arrogant. I fear console prices and games will keep increasing in price making a fantastic hobby more out of reach of regular people limiting its reach.

I can even see mainstream consoles going up in price in the middle of a console cycle instead of the traditional downward direction. I fear upgrade fees, poor customer service, and being charged for things that should be free.

Hopefully competition in this industry stays strong and serves as a check on companies forgetting to remember that the gamers that are the reason they are successful in the first place.

 

[Corndog]

Microsoft has spent just shy of 100B on M&A

That is 1000x the cost of Tomb Raider, three orders of magnitude larger

Microsoft did what nobody thought was even remotely plausible. The scale of some timed exclusives is comically insignificant compared to this

How long has FF7:R been out?