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[Perfo]

Returnal is probably the best first party game they have for now. It's unbelievable good and personally a KA

 

[Elbereth]

Things I loved about Returnal

• Visuals
• Audio
• Movement
• Combat
• Haptics
• Enemy design

Things I disliked about Returnal

• The game

Bad game design ruined a great experience, I'm a dad with a full time job. I don't have time to start from the beginning everytime I die. This is not 1992, design a better progression system.

This game design is clearly not for you. I can respect that. But the whole “design a better progression system” defeats the purpose of what the game actually strives to and in my opinion, masterfully achieves. A unique experience that’s completely upends the status quo. A lot of my deaths were do to bad decisions (Risk vs Reward) on my part. This forced me to approach situations a bit more methodically.

I’m also a father with a full time job, as well as a full time student. My leisure time is very limited, but in that limited time (albeit frustrating at times to be sure lol) with Returnal it became incredible achievement for video games imo.

It actually reminds me of Demon Souls in its unique approach to game design. There was nothing like it (tendencies, invasions, difficulty), and that was the beginning of an incredible series which spawned its own genre. The game wasn’t for the faint of heart, but few other games provided such a unique and rewarding experience.

 

[Captain Toad]

You don't really ever get STRONGER (only during each run), do you? But each biome gives higher level weapons than the one before. And you unlock new useful items that you might find.

Well, you level up weapons instead of your character, but the end result is the same.

 

[Deerock71]

I don't even like bullet hell games in 2D.

 

[Roufianos]

Roguelikes, Roguelites or whatever they're called are dreadful. Can we please stop making games in this awful genre.

 

[Guilty_AI]

I don't even like bullet hell games in 2D.

 

[Three]

The game is a TPS with dashing, light platforming and no cover. It could easily have the same gameplay with a different progression system. The guy's comment was perfectly understandable. It's the most common complaint about the game.

Yes and Spelunky is a side scroller and Binding of Isaac a top-down game but what has the view got to do with the fact that they are rougelike games?

 

[Punished Miku]

Yes and Spelunky is a side scroller and Binding of Isaac a top-down game but what has the view got to do with the fact that they are rougelike games?

I was responding to the other guy that said the lack of a progression system is completely inseparable from the type of game it is. I was just saying that I don't think that's true at all.

 

[Ansphn]

Way ahead of you, son.

What's your scout rank though?

 

[RoadHazard]

Well, you level up weapons instead of your character, but the end result is the same.

But you don't level up weapons. Every time you start over in biome 1 you start with level 1 weapons. You only level them up during each run, but that resets to zero when you die. Or?

Edit: You do unlock new permanent upgrades for the weapons.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Started it last Monday and have been hooked on it ever since. On the 5th biome at the moment.

Fantastic gameplay, which is their pedigree. But the story has me intrigued tied with the loops, and I have 3-4 intersecting theories after visiting the house 4 times. Glad I was able to avoid spoilers till this day.

Nemesis boss battle was nice and old school 16-bit shooter days, even felt OG GoW/Castlevania in the third phase, and Hyperion was incredible as the atmosphere built up with the sound design and haptics.

 

[Deerock71]

That gal from the 'should your boyfriend play' series on youtube nailed it: diarrhea Christmas lights.

 

[Captain Toad]

That gal from the 'should your boyfriend play' series on youtube nailed it: diarrhea Christmas lights.

What game is that?

 

[Three]

I was responding to the other guy that said the lack of a progression system is completely inseparable from the type of game it is. I was just saying that I don't think that's true at all.

I can see you disagree but your argument was the game's view. Well it kind of isn't inseparable. It's like asking tetris to have better progression because once you reach the top it's game over. Rougelike is the type of game. It's randomly generated levels designed to test your skill that reset on death. You either enjoy the game mechanic or you don't but the progression system and it reseting to challenge you with a new seed is the game.

 

[hemo memo]

Didn’t try Returnal yet but plan to as it is part of PS Extra but I tried and believe me when I say I tried to like rougelite games but fail everytime.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

Will play when it comes out on PC

 

[Bernd Lauert]

First game I'm gonna try once I buy a PS5.

 

[Belthazar]

Roguelikes, Roguelites or whatever they're called are fantastic. Can we please start only making games in this amazing genre.

Fixed it for ya.

 

[The Fartist]

My PC is ready

 

[tommib]

Still my game of the generation. Better than anything I've played for the past decade. I will never delete it from my PS5 and if it doesn't run on PS6, I'll keep the PS5 just for that game.

Bro fist. It will end up being my game of the generation just for how fucking dark and opressive it is. We get premium dark shit like this every 10 years.

 

[Hohenheim]

My favourite game of 2021, and one of those few games I just couldn't put down until I finished it. Best new IP since Bloodborne for me, and a similar mindblowing experience.

 

[Chukhopops]

At least if you play it through the sub you won’t waste €50 buying it like I did last year. That and Spelunky 2 were my biggest roguelite disappointments in recent years, for the same reason actually.

 

[Ogbert]

Good game.

My only criticism is the total lack of meaningful build variation. There needs to be more stuff to hunt down and develop. More progress.

It obviously leans heavily on HM’s arcade roots and feels more like an arcade game with very minor rogue elements.

 

[Ogbert]

Also, regardless of however you try and spin it, the malignancy mechanic is appalling.

You just end up ignoring it as the potential benefits are massively outweighed by the negatives. Really bad game design to put a lot of fun stuff behind a gate that players will choose to ignore.

 

[lughnasadh123]

I did prepare well, best weapon I had found so far, had a spawn point, extra life, a parasite that saved my life. Map cleared. Then I died at the boss third phase. Second try from the respawn point. Died at second phase. Back at the crashsite. Pea-shooter, sword, secondary fire, and nothing else, and a new map. I just went nope and haven’t tried it again, the core gameplay is great but I just don’t have that much time to waste.

And this is why I suggest save scumming for those struggling with it or have limited time.

Personally I don't mind dying ala souls game where you mostly have everything you need or can stock up before the run. Here there's a lot of RNG getting the things to help not just tackle the boss but get through the levels that are damn hard in their own right.

Also going to second wishing this was just a more traditional shooter instead of a rogue-lite same way I wish Dead Cells was a more traditional Metroidvania. It does a great job at it imo but man is it getting tired seeing them pop up so often now as somehow who hates that style of design.

 

[Pedro Motta]

 

[The artful mincer]

Been playing this over the last 2 weeks or so.

One of the best 3rd person shooters ever. Maybe the best

How anyone can go back to dude shooter 3000 I will never know but I guess that's what opinions are for.

 

[Alter_Fridge]

Screw shooty shooty games. I need a great story to keep me hooked

 

[solidus12]

14, if I remembrer.

 

[Fredrik]

And this is why I suggest save scumming for those struggling with it or have limited time.

Personally I don't mind dying ala souls game where you mostly have everything you need or can stock up before the run. Here there's a lot of RNG getting the things to help not just tackle the boss but get through the levels that are damn hard in their own right.

Also going to second wishing this was just a more traditional shooter instead of a rogue-lite same way I wish Dead Cells was a more traditional Metroidvania. It does a great job at it imo but man is it getting tired seeing them pop up so often now as somehow who hates that style of design.

Can you still do that save trick? I thought they removed that posibility when they made it possible to pause a cycle.

And that reminds me, how did people manage to finish this game before that patch and without using any save trick?? Must’ve been several hour long uninterupted sessions, and then back to the beginning without any progression at all at death. Brutal!

 

[Xeaker]

No thanks, the bitch looks ugly as fuk

 

[kingkenny76]

I never picked this up at release, had other stuff to play I guess. Also wasn't sure if a roguelite third person shooter would really be my thing. But now with PS+ Extra I decided to give it a go, and I'm absolutely hooked.

I will say it started out a bit slow for me, I was making very little progress during the first few hours and almost gave up on the game. It didn't feel like I was achieving much of anything, since so little carries across between runs (until you beat a boss as least), and it was frustrating to lose what felt like a good run with a lot of time invested into it, over and over again. But slowly but surely it started clicking, and I started "getting it". Once I finally beat that first boss it felt so good, much like when you finally get past something that at first felt impossible in a Souls game. My frustration was turning into addiction, and the more I played the more I wanted to play.

I'm now, I believe, pretty close to the end of the game, and I feel pretty confident in saying it's my game of the generation so far. The gameplay is just top notch, once it clicks it's immensely fun and satisfying. And I absolutely love the creepy alien horror vibe that permeates the entire game. I was really surprised by how good the story is too, they've really done something interesting (and often terrifying) with the whole "endless cycle" thing. Can't wait to see how it all wraps up.

But yeah, pretty good game, try it maybe, I don't know.

Yeah, it's a brilliant game. It's as much about avoiding damage as it is dishing it out

 

[Hestar69]

I "accidentally" made an attempt at the tower when I was a few biomes in, just wanted to check it out. Seems like really good extra content, yes, will return to it later for sure.



This is really a game where you can make it as easy or hard as you want to though (well, it never really gets EASY I guess). Once you reach a new biome you can take a shortcut to it the next time you die, but you will be underpowered compared to the first time you got there. If you instead first clear the earlier biomes again things will be MUCH easier, but it of course takes more time. But that's how I've prepared for most bosses, just skipping straight to the latest biome has generally proven too difficult.



I've never had anything like that, but I've been playing solo only. I don't know how they work co-op into the story (if they do at all), but this is supposed to be Selene's solitary journey I feel.

And biome 5 is overall pretty easy to get through IMO, if you just make sure to have some good stuff for it (the pylon driver is the king). And once you're past that, biome 6 gives you some pretty cool upgrades (and is just pretty freaky in general, feels rather different from anything that came before).



I also felt that lack of progression, until I didn't. Suddenly it started making sense, and then I loved it.

Save-scumming I personally feel would ruin what this game is even about, kinda like it would in Souls. The risk-reward thing is a huge factor. The feeling of finally taking down the next boss after preparing well for it is so great. If the risk of losing everything wasn't there it just wouldn't be the same.

Yeah everytime we tried on the boss something would go wrong. Looked online and saw it's been a problem for months and no patch..Kinda soured me on the game as playing with a friend it wasn't too bad.

 

[Captain Toad]

Screw shooty shooty games. I need a great story to keep me hooked

I thought the story was very interesting. Especially, the "holy shit" moment half way through. By the end, it was a bit too crazy, but it kept me interested throughout to know where it was going.

But, yes, the main attraction here is the gameplay loop. But, the story is interesting enough on its own.

 

[Captain Toad]

Can you still do that save trick? I thought they removed that posibility when they made it possible to pause a cycle.

And that reminds me, how did people manage to finish this game before that patch and without using any save trick?? Must’ve been several hour long uninterupted sessions, and then back to the beginning without any progression at all at death. Brutal!

The game doesn't have a pause button?

 

[It's all in the wrist]

I played it for 4 hours, thought it was really neat, got annoyed that I lost 90% of my progress every time I died, and said fuck it forever. It is soul crushing to put in multiple hours only to have nothing to show for it.

<3 Housemarque, though. I'd love a mode where I can keep continuing. Sure, I'd beat it in no time, but it's the only way I'll be able to enjoy the thing.

 

[Fredrik]

The game doesn't have a pause button?

Leaving the system powered on and only playing one game? Leaving notes with angry warning messages to family members to not touch anything?

I’ve lived that life, 35 years ago! lmao

On C64 no games had save systems, I can’t remember any at least. Maybe there were codes but I can’t remember any. I had The Last Ninja on for like a week lol, you respawned at the same level though but the bastards at System 3 kept track of how many lives you had when you reached there so even at game over you could be stuck restarting with only one life.
It made you great at the game though! I’m sure that goes for early days Returnal players too.

 

[Jesb]

Send me a PS5 first.

 

[NikuNashi]

"Design a better progression system" is really missing the point entirely. That progression system is what the game is, you're essentially saying "make a completely different game please". The game isn't for you, that's fine, not everything has to be for everyone.

The game is every element pieced together to make a whole. So it's perfectly ok to criticise the design choices. You may call it rouguelike or whatever, that doesn't excuse a ruined game. The reason I hate it is because I loved so many elements of it and it sucks the devs couldn't design and produce a full length title without the bullshit start again progression to artificially extend the experience. A shame.

 

[solidus12]

No thanks, the bitch looks ugly as fuk

She has a nice butt

 

[NikuNashi]

It actually reminds me of Demon Souls in its unique approach to game design. There was nothing like it (tendencies, invasions, difficulty), and that was the beginning of an incredible series which spawned its own genre. The game wasn’t for the faint of heart, but few other games provided such a unique and rewarding experience.

I played Demons Souls PS5 last year and cleared it, it was an amazing game. I loved it, dying and restarting always felt fair and it did teach me to play in new ways. Probably my best next gen gaming experience so far. But I guess we have to disagree on Returnal, I don't think their progression system choice ranks alongside DS.

 

[nowhat]

On C64 no games had save systems, I can’t remember any at least. Maybe there were codes but I can’t remember any. I had The Last Ninja on for like a week lol, you respawned at the same level though but the bastards at System 3 kept track of how many lives you had when you reached there so even at game over you could be stuck restarting with only one life.

Oh Last Ninja (and 2) was such a bitch. Some of those jumps required are just sadistic by design. But surely you had an Action Replay cartridge? Infinite lives in most games.

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

If I understood correctly, unlike other Rougue-lites, when you die here you don't carry. over like newer power ups, more stamina, new weapons....just a clean slate every time?

 

[Barrico82]

It is one of the best games and experiences i ever had, the sound design, the music the whole alien feeling to it was something else, the game peaked on the 4th Biome it was an unmatched experience.

However i think i dont have the patience to a rogue-like games if the sequel is a rogue-like i will not try it

 

[tommib]

It is one of the best games and experiences i ever had, the sound design, the music the whole alien feeling to it was something else, the game peaked on the 4th Biome it was an unmatched experience.

However i think i dont have the patience to a rogue-like games if the sequel is a rogue-like i will not try it

Returnal won’t have a sequel. It’s a one and done experience. Krueger confirmed this in some interview. And thank god for that. Let the man’s imagination run wild with whatever new world he comes with.

 

[RoadHazard]

If I understood correctly, unlike other Rougue-lites, when you die here you don't carry. over like newer power ups, more stamina, new weapons....just a clean slate every time?

New item and weapon unlocks do carry over. You won't HAVE THEM when starting the next run, but they'll be unlocked meaning you can find them in the world.

There are also some permanent suit upgrades that you do have forever after unlocking them, mostly stuff that lets you reach new areas, Metroid-style.

But all stats etc reset every run.

 

[Fredrik]

Oh Last Ninja (and 2) was such a bitch. Some of those jumps required are just sadistic by design. But surely you had an Action Replay cartridge? Infinite lives in most games.

Yeah the swamp and water crossing in The Last Ninja and the pillars and that train track in Last Ninja 2, early days git gud gaming

I had The Final Cartridge III, then you could in theory do save states, press a button and freeze the game at a difficult area and save, then load later and start right where you hit the button.
But reloading took several minutes so it was hardly an optimal solution lol

 

[nowhat]

Yeah the swamp and water crossing in The Last Ninja and the pillars and that train track in Last Ninja 2, early days git gud gaming

I had The Final Cartridge III, then you could in theory do save states, press a button and freeze the game at a difficult area and save, the load later and start right where you hit the button.
But reloading took several minutes so it was hardly an optimal solution lol

You really missed out then. I can't remember what revision of Action Replay I had (it was MK $SOMETHING, there were many), and it's been such a long time that I don't remember the exact terms used, but basically: say you have three lives in a game. You freeze the game/enter the cartridge menu, and input you have three lives. The cartridge then scans all memory addresses containing a value of "3". Then continue to play the game until you lose a life, go into the cartridge menu again - then you can scan those memory addresses that previously contained "3" and see if one now has a value of "2". And if such location is found, the cartridge would "freeze" that memory location, so even if the value would change, the cartridge would swap in the "frozen" value.

This sounds like something that couldn't possibly work, but remarkably it did more often than not. "Benefit" of having only 64kB of memory I guess. But that's enough for the offtopic, thumbs up for Returnal from me as well.

 

[Ogbert]

If I understood correctly, unlike other Rougue-lites, when you die here you don't carry. over like newer power ups, more stamina, new weapons....just a clean slate every time?

Pretty much.

You can develop the pool of items that will potentially drop and also incrementally improve your guns (again, that may or may not drop for you).

I actually think the game could take a few tips from Remnant of the Ashes. I just want more stuff to do in Returnal. More guns, in particular.

Returnal is an excellent game but I’m not convinced it’s as fun as it should be.

 

[Johnny Concrete]

I'm playing through the game now for the first time. The haptics and the sound are incredible! Feels so good to play and I'm now a believer in 3D audio, because I can exactly pinpoint where the audio cue is from (even above or below).
The action is very good, game plays fantastic and the enemies are fun to fight most of the time.

The only big negative for me is that the items and upgrades feel a bit too incremental. You never really find anything real crazy, it's all '5% more damage' or 'enemies drop some more things maybe'. Which makes every run feel a bit too much like the last one.
I want some more highs and lows. Like some real shitty runs and then one where you find 2/3 lucky items that makes you slay everything and everyone until you fall into a pit by your own fault!