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[Riky]

Those mandates make games released look better - Death Stranding captured on PS4 Pro - for marketing, the XsS is the exact opposite, like showing ps3/360 versions of Metal gear 5.
The original Xbox abandoned the gen earliest, despite being last to release, so devs already had access to 360 dev kits sure-ing up support, and even after the 360 was released Nintendo still released Twilight Princess banger on the GC. Xbox support that gen is an outlier anyway because they were spending money on support like water. They aren't throwing their money around with all devs like that now, and the Xbox was literally a DirectXbox PC, unlike the XsS with its irregular downgraded memory and memory bandwidth compared to the XsX.

The active userbase was probably about the same, because lots of PS3 owners bought 3rd party games on 360 in NA - I suspect - so the PS3 was relatively dead to them in dev terms for non-exclusives. But my point about the XsS is still assuming 80m

Use the example the other way around then, first you claim userbase is the important factor but GameCube and Xbox being so close disproves that, have you got the details of this money being thrown around? Or is it made up again like the Gamecube 10 million figure? PS2 had what six times the userbase but didn't get Doom 3 and Half Life 2 for simple technical reasons. Again using a Nintendo first party game, doesn't really show anything. Check the day and date third party games like I said.
You say Microsoft isn't throwing money around, after they spent nearly 80 billion in aquisitions, the likes of Contraband say otherwise. Also the Series S hasn't got the same memory setup as Series X, you'd know that if you did your research, it's 8gb for games and 2gb for OS.

You're unsupported figures don't mean anything, you've either got the sources to prove them all or not and so far you've provided none.

At the end of the day though the Series S is obviously not going anywhere, just like the One S technically and the One X sales wise. Some developers will put more effort into ports than others, that happens between the Series X and PS5 though.

We can resume this conversation when a Series S version doesn't appear and a Series X version does, don't hold your breath.

 

[Punished Miku]

Yeah I finished stray too. Not interested in sifu.
Anything you recommend I might’ve missed?

What systems do you have?

I guess the year was mostly carried for me with indies and Switch games. If you just have a PS5, and you don't like indie games I guess I can see how it is a very slow year. Based on the little bit you've told me, I'd recommend for you picking Stranger in Paradise when it's on sale.

Triangle Strategy (GOTY for me)
Kirby
Stranger in Paradise
Sifu
Citizen Sleeper
As Dusk Falls
Nobody Saves the World
Pokemon Arceus
Voice of Cards 2
RPG Time
Neon White
Card Shark
Shredders
Weird West
Ghostwire Tokyo
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Shredder's Revenge

 

[rofif]

What systems do you have?

I guess the year was mostly carried for me with indies and Switch games. If you just have a PS5, and you don't like indie games I guess I can see how it is a very slow year. Based on the little bit you've told me, I'd recommend for you picking Stranger in Paradise when it's on sale.

Triangle Strategy (GOTY for me)
Kirby
Stranger in Paradise
Sifu
Citizen Sleeper
As Dusk Falls
Nobody Saves the World
Pokemon Arceus
Voice of Cards 2
RPG Time
Neon White
Card Shark
Shredders
Weird West
Ghostwire Tokyo
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Shredder's Revenge

I don't care for nintendo games. I have ps5 and pc.
The 2 games from your list I am interested in are Ghostwire Tokyo and maybe Stranger in Paradise. I will get to ghostwire maybe this winter.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Some developers will put more effort into ports than others, that happens between the Series X and PS5 though.

Did you really try and equate the Xbox Series S vs Xbox Series X as a similar situation to the PS5 versus Xbox Series X? The latter has no appreciable difference whatsoever. Xbox Series S is already getting some pretty wildly unoptimized ports well below what many would have expected.

Fact remains, juggling multiple systems is difficult and resource intensive, and at the end of the day some developers will simply not put in a whole lot of effort.

 

[Punished Miku]

I don't care for nintendo games. I have ps5 and pc.
The 2 games from your list I am interested in are Ghostwire Tokyo and maybe Stranger in Paradise. I will get to ghostwire maybe this winter.

I kind of wish I had nothing to play. I'm drowning in backlog.

For someone like you with free time, maybe go all in on Monster Hunter Rise and the expansion. That will keep you busy, and it's damn good.

 

[PaintTinJr]

Use the example the other way around then, first you claim userbase is the important factor but GameCube and Xbox being so close disproves that,

Actually doing it the other way around you said it was because of the Nintendo user buying habits, which - along with the user base - is the point I am making about the XsS. If XsS owners aren't upping the A-AAA game sales then support by devs isn't making back money for devs/pubs and losing them money.

Also, the Xbox was dead early, and because the 360 had B/C it isn't a straight comparison with the gamecube as to why support remained. The GC situation is far more similar to the XsS than the original Xbox which was publicly known to have almost blank cheque support for Bill to make his claim of them being first in gaming true. I mean they spent £500m buying half of Rare from Nintendo, and god knows how much to buy Lionhead that needed a hit game to stay in busines, to name just two of many expensive acquisition while they got established.

have you got the details of this money being thrown around? Or is it made up again like the Gamecube 10 million figure? PS2 had what six times the userbase but didn't get Doom 3 and Half Life 2 for simple technical reasons. Again using a Nintendo first party game, doesn't really show anything. Check the day and date third party games like I said.

Lack of support for a technical reason is a different situation, PlayStation 2 was never in a position to have Doom3 without a HDD requirement, and PlayStation wasn't going to copy the N64 memory pack situation.

...

We can resume this conversation when a Series S version doesn't appear and a Series X version does, don't hold your breath.

But that won't happen first. Behind the scenes the games would just miss all of series, and then Xbox would drop the requirement, or launch the next series. Rockstars next big AAA game will be the real big test. If it passes that and XsS gets a version then obviously XsS is here to stay IMHO.

 

[twilo99]

Gamepass is good but new ps premium is also good or even better maybe.
But that's not the fight I want to see... Who got better gaas service. F that

You really just have to account for the price point and the XSS makes a lot of sense. Even the most avid Sony fan should be able to see that if they apply a bit of logic to the situation.

The XSS gives a lot of people the opportunity to play good games at a reasonable price / performance ratio. There is nothing wrong with that, in fact, we should be celebrating because locking console gaming to the premium segment is not cool.

Gamepass is optional, but the entry point/price into the ecosystem, or whatever you want to call it, is right where is should be. I would love to see a $249 entry price but I think no one can pull that off and not loose money selling the hardware.

 

[twilo99]

I just looked up some used XSS machines.. we down to $180-200 range for most listings on craigslist, I haven't looked on ebay, but that is an awesome price for that thing.

 

[Riky]

Actually doing it the other way around you said it was because of the Nintendo user buying habits, which - along with the user base - is the point I am making about the XsS. If XsS owners aren't upping the A-AAA game sales then support by devs isn't making back money for devs/pubs and losing them money.

Also, the Xbox was dead early, and because the 360 had B/C it isn't a straight comparison with the gamecube as to why support remained. The GC situation is far more similar to the XsS than the original Xbox which was publicly known to have almost blank cheque support for Bill to make his claim of them being first in gaming true. I mean they spent £500m buying half of Rare from Nintendo, and god knows how much to buy Lionhead that needed a hit game to stay in busines, to name just two of many expensive acquisition while they got established.

Lack of support for a technical reason is a different situation, PlayStation 2 was never in a position to have Doom3 without a HDD requirement, and PlayStation wasn't going to copy the N64 memory pack situation.

But that won't happen first. Behind the scenes the games would just miss all of series, and then Xbox would drop the requirement, or launch the next series. Rockstars next big AAA game will be the real big test. If it passes that and XsS gets a version then obviously XsS is here to stay IMHO.

How do you determine if Series S owners ups sales, since the file downloaded works on both machines? Can you supply the figures that the cost of developing a Series S version outstrips the income gained from that version? Or that skipping the Series consoles completely even though for the third time it's on the same GDK as PC is a viable plan? Every single game released so far disproves this theory and until a developer comes out and supports your claim then it's baseless.

So you claim BC support is the reason Xbox had support the whole gen? Yet Wii had support for GameCube even down to the controllers and memory cards......

You talk about what turned into first party studios yet I was using Doom 3 and Half Life 2 as examples, where is the evidence of money changing hands and not technical limitations of PS2/Gamecube being the reason only Xbox got those games? Please supply it. The Xbox is accepted as simply more powerful and the specs back that up, just accept it, its ancient history now, like I said if you owned all three it was obvious on day and date releases, I can go back and fetch many many examples.

Since Microsoft never dropped the mandate for Xbox One S which had a larger technical gap to Xbox One X I see no precedent for your claim, especially since launch aligned the Series consoles are selling better.

I'm 100% confident that Series S will get GTA6 as well as every other game that comes to Series X, as it's mandated. Will Rockstar skip tens of millions Series owners because of the cost of a port to Series S as you claim? We both know the answer to that.

 

[Trazyn the Infinite]

It's unfortunate how much mental gymnastics some adults will do to avoid letting Xbox have a W every once in a while

Imagine the mental gymnastics some adults do to give consoles a “W” or even care about them at that point.

Focus on the games and not on the plastic box.

 

[rofif]

You really just have to account for the price point and the XSS makes a lot of sense. Even the most avid Sony fan should be able to see that if they apply a bit of logic to the situation.

The XSS gives a lot of people the opportunity to play good games at a reasonable price / performance ratio. There is nothing wrong with that, in fact, we should be celebrating because locking console gaming to the premium segment is not cool.

Gamepass is optional, but the entry point/price into the ecosystem, or whatever you want to call it, is right where is should be. I would love to see a $249 entry price but I think no one can pull that off and not loose money selling the hardware.

I don't see that.
It is only 100$ cheaper than ps5 digital... like cmon

 

[PaintTinJr]

How do you determine if Series S owners ups sales, since the file downloaded works on both machines?

From all the data we have to let pubs and platforms collect via agreeing to EULAs you don't believe they can infer which consoles are attached to the same ISP IP address and from seeing which of those consoles downloads the day 1 patch infer if the user has more than one copy, one for each competing platform, and from the live and PSN accounts infer if they have more than one copy on one platform, no? Obviously if an XsS household has an XsX with a shared account, it is unlikely the XsS triggered the sale, much like if they have a PC or PS5 version, but only play indie games, emulated games and free gamepass games on their XsS, or use only for the kids' minecraft, it is hardly a viable next-gen system in reality - in that household - for selling A-AAA games, no?

..
I'm 100% confident that Series S will get GTA6 as well as every other game that comes to Series X, as it's mandated. Will Rockstar skip tens of millions Series owners because of the cost of a port to Series S as you claim? We both know the answer to that.

Optics wise I believe the XsS will be a bitter pill for Rockstar to swallow when they rely so heavily on matching PlayStation first party polish to entice buyers, A lowly XsS visual could damage the image of their next big game IMO - possibly not even GTA6 - and I think it is 50:50 if it will come to XsS, and whether it would then come to XsX - if they decided to pass on XsS - will depend on Xbox's decision to enforce their XsS mandate or not.

It is an interesting dilemma IMO and I guess we'll know in 2years or so.

 

[SlimySnake]

I’ll list the games I’ve played for the first time this year or just installed waiting for the right time to play for the first time:

Horizon Forbidden West
Gran Turismo 7
Elden Ring
Spider-Man Miles Morales
Moss Book 2
Returnal
Chorvs
LootRiver
Tunic
Doom Eternal
Shadow of the Colossus remake
Trek to Yomi
Days Gone
Death Stranding DC
Uncharted Lost Legacy
Stray
Forza Horizon 5 Hot Wheels
Mass Effect Legendary Edition
No Man’s Sky Endurance
A Plague Tale
Cuphead The Delicious Last Course
Shredders
Naraka
Death’s Door
Detroit Become Human
Raiden V
The Big Butcher
Shadow of the Beast
The Gunk

I’ve probably missed a few. I’d agree that some of these are bad, and some are oldish too, but some has been absolutely phenomenal. And it was simply a long time since I had so much to play in just 7 months.

It definitely take longer time to make games nowdays, no doubt about that. But there must be some bubble life going on here if you’ve truly only played Elden Ring and Horizon this year. What platforms and subscription services do you have access to?

Are you serious. 90% of the games on your list were released 2-5 years ago and you are calling out a guy for saying hes played the two AAA releases this year?

The poor guy even admitted to having to resort to playing a fucking cat game, and you are like 'nah, I lived in the bubble for the last four years and somehow missed Detroit, Death Stranding, Days Gone, Uncharted Lost Legacy, Miles and well pretty much every single PS exclusive to come out in the last five years.' The rest of us were actually not living under a rock and played the game when they came out years ago.

I really dont get it. This year has been the worst in decades. The sales are showing this. Consoles sales are finally up thanks to the chip shortage easing and sony had a massive 60% drop in first party sales last quarter. Overall, sales were down 26% from last year's quarter. It's obvious that this is due to the fact that last quarter we had Returnal, Ratchet and RE8 all launch in a span of three months from April to June. Fuck all launched in the last three months. 4 if you count july.

The year is set to end somewhat strong with Batman, Plague's Tale, Callisto, Protocol, GOW, CoD and Harry Potter, but so far aside from HFW and Elden Rings I havent seen anything this year that excited me to go buy it day one. or day 150. And both those games were disappointing in one way or another. By comparison, the second year of PS3 had GTA4, Fallout 3, MGS4, LittleBigPlanet, Socom Confrontation, Motorstorm Pacific Rift and Resistance 2. Second year of PS4x1 had Witcher 3, MGSV, Rise of Tomb Raider, Bloodborne, Batman Arkham Knight, Halo 5, Mad Max, Fallout 4, Just Cause 3. Only one last gen game. This year there are ZERO next gen games. Sonys only next gen only game looks like a PS4 game. Xbox doesnt even have one.

rofif I am in the same boat as you bud. This year has been rough. I bought a 3080 after almost 2 years of waiting and havent bothered to finish a single game on it.

 

[DrumNBassDanTTV]

Yep. The Series S should be tracked separately. That would give a more accurate picture of their sales.


That's a lie but if it makes you feel better, keep deluding yourself.

The Series S doesn't even deserve to be called "next gen". It's an iterative half step up from the One X that is already struggling on some games two years into its lifespan. The specs of the Series S put it in a generational status all it's own and has no business being counted alongside the same sales numbers as the actual next gen Series X.

haha

 

[Gamer79]

"We beat the PS5 for 3 quarters in North America (our strongest market) while the PS5 was heavily supply constrained due to production problems and failed to meet it's targets. Also, the Switch doesn't count because we sold less than it did."

They sure like to console war when it suits them, classic MS: "We don't talk about unit sales. Unless we have some shots to fire and info that suits us. But if we don't say anything please don't assume the worst."

Exactly. A huge circle Jerk in here with microsoft fans and don't even know you have to sell your left nut to find a ps5 in stock.

 

[Calverz]

Xbox doing everything right this generation.

 

[SlimySnake]

But that won't happen first. Behind the scenes the games would just miss all of series, and then Xbox would drop the requirement, or launch the next series. Rockstars next big AAA game will be the real big test. If it passes that and XsS gets a version then obviously XsS is here to stay IMHO.

I dont think the xss is going anywhere. It's passed two of the biggest tests thrown its way. Metro Exodus does full ray traced GI and it runs on the xss. Dips to 512p in taxing areas with foliage, but it is running at 60 fps so at 30 fps it should go up to 720p which is what they shouldve targeted anyway.

The Matrix also dips to 533p if not significantly lower according to DF, but again, it runs. Yes, Coalition had to be brought it to get it to work... my guess is Epic was like fuck this, we are done, and MS had to send to Coalition but thats besides the point. They got it to run. Now, other devs should be able to look at the downgrades made by Coalition and simply piggyback on them whenever they make UE5 games. I hope Coalition left some dev notes in there for future ports.

One thing I never understood was why they didnt just settle for software based lumens on the xss. That has a 38% performance boost on PC and looks almost the same. Even Epic said that software lumens targets 1440p on xsx and ps5 while hardware lumens targets 1080p. thats a massive 75% difference in the Valley of the Ancient demo.

Shouldve just settled for software lumens on xss and hardware lumens on xsx. who knows they might even hit a consistent 640p without any of other downgrades they had to implement to the traffic simulation and other visual settings DF pointed out. I really hope every UE5 game ships with two versions. A quality mode that uses hardware lumens and a performance mode that uses software lumens and then maybe some resolution cutbacks to double the framerate.

 

[adamsapple]

Xbox doing everything right this generation.

The recovery from the XBO PR disaster is nothing short of a humongous success story in itself

 

[Punished Miku]

I dont think the xss is going anywhere. It's passed two of the biggest tests thrown its way. Metro Exodus does full ray traced GI and it runs on the xss. Dips to 512p in taxing areas with foliage, but it is running at 60 fps so at 30 fps it should go up to 720p which is what they shouldve targeted anyway.

The Matrix also dips to 533p if not significantly lower according to DF, but again, it runs. Yes, Coalition had to be brought it to get it to work... my guess is Epic was like fuck this, we are done, and MS had to send to Coalition but thats besides the point. They got it to run. Now, other devs should be able to look at the downgrades made by Coalition and simply piggyback on them whenever they make UE5 games. I hope Coalition left some dev notes in there for future ports.

One thing I never understood was why they didnt just settle for software based lumens on the xss. That has a 38% performance boost on PC and looks almost the same. Even Epic said that software lumens targets 1440p on xsx and ps5 while hardware lumens targets 1080p. thats a massive 75% difference in the Valley of the Ancient demo.

Shouldve just settled for software lumens on xss and hardware lumens on xsx. who knows they might even hit a consistent 640p without any of other downgrades they had to implement to the traffic simulation and other visual settings DF pointed out. I really hope every UE5 game ships with two versions. A quality mode that uses hardware lumens and a performance mode that uses software lumens and then maybe some resolution cutbacks to double the framerate.

What's your estimate of Hellblade 2 run specs on XSS?

 

[ZywyPL]

Are you serious. 90% of the games on your list were released 2-5 years ago

This kind of proves his point tho - there are so many games to play nowadays that the biggest problem is not their quantity but getting the time to play them.

People who complain about the "state of the industry" are the ones who close themselves only on AAA titles, if even that - many times they just scream "exclusives! exclusives!", and if that's only what interests you that's exactly you'll get - one or two games to look forward to play. And that's exactly the impression I get from rofif recently - he bought PS5 for it's exclusives, and now he's bitter/butthurt that he has nothing to play...

But this is exactly why MS and Sony started building up their 1P studios portfolio - because they know better than everyone else how long it takes to make games nowadays, so if they want to release more than just a few titles abyear they need to be stacked with ongoing projects.

 

[SlimySnake]

Exactly. A huge circle Jerk in here with microsoft fans and don't even know you have to sell your left nut to find a ps5 in stock.

There is nothing wrong with noting that you beat your DIRECT competition for 3 quarters straight including the all important holiday quarter. BOTH of them are constrained by the same shortages. Im sure the xss is easier to produce, and is likely selling the vast majority of consoles, but who cares? MS is selling more consistently under the same rules and they ought to be able to celebrate that fact after spending the entire last gen behind Sony.

There is no love lost between me and MS fans, and I will never ever get over their decision to greenlight the xss, but Im not going to rain on their parade. Congratulate and move on especially if you believe Sony will come back to take the next 3 quarters if the shortage ends.

 

[SlimySnake]

What's your estimate of Hellblade 2 run specs on XSS?

well, they are using black bars a la The Order and Death Stranding DC to reduce the resolution to somewhere around 3840x1643. Thats 6.3 million pixels. XSS typically offers 1/4th of the performance of the xsx and ps5 so thats 1.5 million pixels of a little over 900p. Shouldnt look bad as long as they do something about the shimmering thats in 1080p PS4 games like driveclub and batman ak.

People who complain about the "state of the industry" are the ones who close themselves only on AAA titles, if even that - many times they just scream "exclusives! exclusives!", and if that's only what interests you that's exactly you'll get - one or two games to look forward to play. And that's exactly the impression I get from rofif recently - he bought PS5 for it's exclusives, and now he's bitter/butthurt that he has nothing to play...

Why should a person who spent $500 to place NEXT GEN cutting edge games NOT be butthurt at being told to play a fucking cat game. He didnt buy the next gen console for indie games. People can play indie games on the laptop, their ipad and iphones, last gen consoles, and even the 5 year old switch.

There has always been an understanding between a console manufacturer and the consumer that the $500 console purchase is a 6-7 year investment that will pay off as you go along. You expect and accept the paltry 2-3 games at launch knowing that by the end of year 1, the console manufacturer wouldve secured several more games. then some more the year after. 2001, 2007, 2015 all all time great years. 2022? All time awful year.

 

[Lognor]

I don't see that.
It is only 100$ cheaper than ps5 digital... like cmon

$100 savings and it has game pass. Easy choice!

 

[Three]

Are you serious. 90% of the games on your list were released 2-5 years ago and you are calling out a guy for saying hes played the two AAA releases this year?

The poor guy even admitted to having to resort to playing a fucking cat game, and you are like nah, but I lived in the bubble for the last four years and somehow missed Detroit, Death Stranding, Days Gone, Uncharted Lost Legacy, Miles and well pretty much every single PS exclusive to come out in the last five years. The rest of us were actually not living under a rock and played the game when they came out years ago.

I really dont get it. This year has been the worst in decades. The sales are showing this. Consoles sales are finally up thanks to the chip shortage easing and sony had a massive 60% drop in first party sales last quarter. Overall, sales were down 26% from last year's quarter. It's obvious that this is due to the fact that last quarter we had Returnal, Ratchet and RE8 all launch in a span of three months from April to June. Fuck all launched in the last three months. 4 if you count july.

The year is set to end somewhat strong with Batman, Plague's Tale, Callisto, Protocol, GOW, CoD and Harry Potter, but so far aside from HFW and Elden Rings I havent seen anything this year that excited me to go buy it day one. or day 150. And both those games were disappointing in one way or another. By comparison, the second year of PS3 had GTA4, Fallout 3, MGS4, LittleBigPlanet, Socom Confrontation, Motorstorm Pacific Rift and Resistance 2. Second year of PS4x1 had Witcher 3, MGSV, Rise of Tomb Raider, Bloodborne, Batman Arkham Knight, Halo 5, Mad Max, Fallout 4, Just Cause 3. Only one last gen game. This year there are ZERO next gen games. Sonys only next gen only game looks like a PS4 game. Xbox doesnt even have one.

rofif I am in the same boat as you bud. This year has been rough. I bought a 3080 after almost 2 years of waiting and havent bothered to finish a single game on it.

I said the same thing but in all fairness he was a gamepass type of guy and just recently joined PS+ Premium so he is playing these games for the first time. he must feel like a kid in a candy store for now. These subs are why things will actually slow down as game sales continue to decline.

 

[Punished Miku]

I said the same thing but in all fairness he was a gamepass type of guy and just recently joined PS+ Premium so he is playing these games for the first time he must feel like a kid in a candy store for now. These subs are why things will actually slow down as game sales continue to decline.

They've been slowing down every gen for quite a while.

Subs will have an effect, but I'd put the blame for current delays on open world bloat, graphics bloat over art style innovation, GAAS focus, and consumers only buying these games. Subs are probably going to be the main thing responsible for finding an audience for AA games again after they've been dying for 10 years. AA games typically come out a bit faster. Subs will have a positive and negative influence, depending on your point of view really.

Without subs ever being involved, AAA games will always come out slower each gen all by themselves. Just look at Rockstar. They're not a victim of Gamepass. I think Gamepass really only even barely started to have a large influence after E3 2021.

 

[Three]

They've been slowing down every gen for quite a while.

Subs will have an effect, but I'd put the blame for current delays on open world bloat, graphics bloat over art style innovation, GAAS focus, and consumers only buying these games. Subs are probably going to be the main thing responsible for finding an audience for AA games again after they've been dying for 10 years. AA games typically come out a bit faster. Subs will have a positive and negative influence, depending on your point of view really.

Without subs ever being involved, AAA games will always come out slower each gen all by themselves. Just look at Rockstar. They're not a victim of Gamepass.

You're right that the decline would have likely happened anyway with the rise of mobile but subs have accelerated the GaaS focus and the not buying games mentality. Quality AA seems to take just as long as AAA nowadays.

 

[Riky]

From all the data we have to let pubs and platforms collect via agreeing to EULAs you don't believe they can infer which consoles are attached to the same ISP IP address and from seeing which of those consoles downloads the day 1 patch infer if the user has more than one copy, one for each competing platform, and from the live and PSN accounts infer if they have more than one copy on one platform, no? Obviously if an XsS household has an XsX with a shared account, it is unlikely the XsS triggered the sale, much like if they have a PC or PS5 version, but only play indie games, emulated games and free gamepass games on their XsS, or use only for the kids' minecraft, it is hardly a viable next-gen system in reality - in that household - for selling A-AAA games, no?

Optics wise I believe the XsS will be a bitter pill for Rockstar to swallow when they rely so heavily on matching PlayStation first party polish to entice buyers, A lowly XsS visual could damage the image of their next big game IMO - possibly not even GTA6 - and I think it is 50:50 if it will come to XsS, and whether it would then come to XsX - if they decided to pass on XsS - will depend on Xbox's decision to enforce their XsS mandate or not.

It is an interesting dilemma IMO and I guess we'll know in 2years or so.

The Series consoles share the same file, I've just told you that, you can literally move it on a storage card and play the same download on either machine. There isn't " more than one copy"

"It is unlikely XSS triggered the sale", what does this actually mean? Nothing are you seriously saying that a developer cares about the game they sold being activated if they can even tell on which Series console in a single household? Why would they? They sold the game, it can't even be a used copy if it works on a Series S. You are really clutching at straws now.

You keep talking about "indie games" "emulated games and free Gamepass games", this makes no sense, Series S plays ALL the software Series X plays, people are playing Forza Horizon 5 and Halo Infinite on the machine. Gamepass games aren't "free" you have to pay for the service, stop creating false narratives. You have no proof or figures for what Series S owners play or even if it's any different from what Series X owners play, none.

You keep talking about Rockstar, why? If we're talking about polished games then we've just seen technical comparisons of Hot Wheels with FH5 without a single dropped frame, pretty polished then no? We've just seen the release of the GTA Trilogy that was far from this polished utopia you are claiming.

"A lowly XsS visual could damage the image of their next big game IMO - possibly not even GTA6 - and I think it is 50:50 if it will come to XsS, and whether it would then come to XsX - if they decided to pass on XsS - will depend on Xbox's decision to enforce their XsS mandate or not."

You are seriously saying that you think GTA6 only has a 50% chance of coming to Series consoles because Rockstar are going to have to make a Series S version.........this is one of the dumbest things I've seen here and that's quite a bar to reach even for you.

Show me one shred of evidence apart from in your fanboy fantasy world where this has even been hinted at, just one. You seem to be in a whole new world of delusion, please for everyone's sake stop embarrassing yourself.

 

[PaintTinJr]

The Series consoles share the same file, I've just told you that, you can literally move it on a storage card and play the same download on either machine. There isn't " more than one copy"

"It is unlikely XSS triggered the sale", what does this actually mean? Nothing are you seriously saying that a developer cares about the game they sold being activated if they can even tell on which Series console in a single household? Why would they? They sold the game, it can't even be a used copy if it works on a Series S. You are really clutching at straws now.

You keep talking about "indie games" "emulated games and free Gamepass games", this makes no sense, Series S plays ALL the software Series X plays, people are playing Forza Horizon 5 and Halo Infinite on the machine. Gamepass games aren't "free" you have to pay for the service, stop creating false narratives. You have no proof or figures for what Series S owners play or even if it's any different from what Series X owners play, none.

They are two different versions of a game packaged in one file, the delivery method is unimportant, The point I am making that you are failing to comprehend is that if most gamers would already buy game X for a high end PC. XsX or PS5 and there is a big overlap of owning two of those systems, and only a small number of people exclusively with an XsS, and an even smaller percentage of those supporting 3rd party A-AAA game sales - rather than sub money for 3year old games - the cost of an XsS port and the negative optics it potentially brings could be worse than the developer skipping the XsS development. Hence why the XsS has to bring in additional sales to not be a negative drain on dev resources.

Gamepass isn't the same as a game sale because as has been well documented by interviews with Jim, PlayStatopn have said their AAA game costs couldn't be recouped by a sub, and I'm sure that is true for publishers like Rockstar, too.

You keep talking about Rockstar, why? If we're talking about polished games then we've just seen technical comparisons of Hot Wheels with FH5 without a single dropped frame, pretty polished then no? We've just seen the release of the GTA Trilogy that was far from this polished utopia you are claiming.

"A lowly XsS visual could damage the image of their next big game IMO - possibly not even GTA6 - and I think it is 50:50 if it will come to XsS, and whether it would then come to XsX - if they decided to pass on XsS - will depend on Xbox's decision to enforce their XsS mandate or not."

You are seriously saying that you think GTA6 only has a 50% chance of coming to Series consoles because Rockstar are going to have to make a Series S version.........this is one of the dumbest things I've seen here and that's quite a bar to reach even for you.

Show me one shred of evidence apart from in your fanboy fantasy world where this has even been hinted at, just one. You seem to be in a whole new world of delusion, please for everyone's sake stop embarrassing yourself.

Why do I need to provide proof of an opinion? I'm happy for you to hold a different opinion, but it seems you aren't okay with the reversal.

 

[Calverz]

$100 savings and it has game pass. Easy choice!

Don’t forget it’s like 33% the size too lol

 

[rofif]

Are you serious. 90% of the games on your list were released 2-5 years ago and you are calling out a guy for saying hes played the two AAA releases this year?

The poor guy even admitted to having to resort to playing a fucking cat game, and you are like 'nah, I lived in the bubble for the last four years and somehow missed Detroit, Death Stranding, Days Gone, Uncharted Lost Legacy, Miles and well pretty much every single PS exclusive to come out in the last five years.' The rest of us were actually not living under a rock and played the game when they came out years ago.

I really dont get it. This year has been the worst in decades. The sales are showing this. Consoles sales are finally up thanks to the chip shortage easing and sony had a massive 60% drop in first party sales last quarter. Overall, sales were down 26% from last year's quarter. It's obvious that this is due to the fact that last quarter we had Returnal, Ratchet and RE8 all launch in a span of three months from April to June. Fuck all launched in the last three months. 4 if you count july.

The year is set to end somewhat strong with Batman, Plague's Tale, Callisto, Protocol, GOW, CoD and Harry Potter, but so far aside from HFW and Elden Rings I havent seen anything this year that excited me to go buy it day one. or day 150. And both those games were disappointing in one way or another. By comparison, the second year of PS3 had GTA4, Fallout 3, MGS4, LittleBigPlanet, Socom Confrontation, Motorstorm Pacific Rift and Resistance 2. Second year of PS4x1 had Witcher 3, MGSV, Rise of Tomb Raider, Bloodborne, Batman Arkham Knight, Halo 5, Mad Max, Fallout 4, Just Cause 3. Only one last gen game. This year there are ZERO next gen games. Sonys only next gen only game looks like a PS4 game. Xbox doesnt even have one.

rofif I am in the same boat as you bud. This year has been rough. I bought a 3080 after almost 2 years of waiting and havent bothered to finish a single game on it.

Exactly thank you! Someone understands.
Huge backlog means nothing. “But I have stuff to play” and then points to 5yo games. I mean, this only explains you are not very invested gamer if you slept so long on some of these games. I also replay games like uncharted 4 remaster this year but it’s unfair to count it in.
I feel like I’ve played everything there is and all the shovelware does not interest me because I played it before.
And I do play indie games! The forgotten city was my goty last year! I always give games a chance but I am not excited by every recycled idea because I am not new to gaming.
If someone lived through 1997, 2004, 2007 or 2011 everything past that is somehow lackluster. 2015 and 2017 was ok too let’s say.
But look at 2011 alone on Google. The list makes my head spin. Sure it’s a lot of sequels but it would take 9 years for all these games to release now… and then Some would be gaas

 

[Riky]

They are two different versions of a game packaged in one file, the delivery method is unimportant, The point I am making that you are failing to comprehend is that if most gamers would already buy game X for a high end PC. XsX or PS5 and there is a big overlap of owning two of those systems, and only a small number of people exclusively with an XsS, and an even smaller percentage of those supporting 3rd party A-AAA game sales - rather than sub money for 3year old games - the cost of an XsS port and the negative optics it potentially brings could be worse than the developer skipping the XsS development. Hence why the XsS has to bring in additional sales to not be a negative drain on dev resources.

Gamepass isn't the same as a game sale because as has been well documented by interviews with Jim, PlayStatopn have said their AAA game costs couldn't be recouped by a sub, and I'm sure that is true for publishers like Rockstar, too.

Why do I need to provide proof of an opinion? I'm happy for you to hold a different opinion, but it seems you aren't okay with the reversal.

I'm not going to indulge in your crackpot baseless fanboy fantasy anymore, you haven't supplied a shred of evidence of this phenomenon, where the cost of a Series S port of one of the most profitable franchises in history is going to be the one that proves what your saying. It's not an opinion when I've caught you making up numbers like the GC install base and lying that Gamepass games are "free".

 

[Bernd Lauert]

The forgotten city was my goty last year!

 

[Fredrik]

Are you serious. 90% of the games on your list were released 2-5 years ago and you are calling out a guy for saying hes played the two AAA releases this year?

The poor guy even admitted to having to resort to playing a fucking cat game, and you are like 'nah, I lived in the bubble for the last four years and somehow missed Detroit, Death Stranding, Days Gone, Uncharted Lost Legacy, Miles and well pretty much every single PS exclusive to come out in the last five years.' The rest of us were actually not living under a rock and played the game when they came out years ago.

I played minimum 30 games last year as well, doesn’t mean I’ve lived in a bubble without anything to play because I didn’t buy every game I could find at $70 but waited on subscription releases for some of them.

The big problem is Microsoft’s 1st party output. I don’t think the industry is dying and I certainly don’t think Sony deserves to be dragged into this negativity, certainly not this year. Even without PS+ and Uncharted Lost Legacy where I was LTTP I would’ve still got Gran Turismo 7, Horizon Forbidden West this year, and soon God of War Ragnarök, possibly TLOUp1 as well if I can’t control myself, besides the third party Gamepass games I listed.

If you only buy big budget AAA releases and don’t have any subscription service, yes then things would look worse.
But why sit on the fence on subscription services?
Last time I checked you can still get Gamepass Ultimate for half a pizza per month by prepaying. If you only have a PC it works there too. Not sure about current deals on PS+ but I prepaid there as well for the same cheap price.

 

[onesvenus]

In the future we'll see how well it does to sell full price copies of Madden, Fifa, etc - in place of PS5 or PC versions- and help devs/publishers sell software in households where they haven't bought it as a 2nd bedroom compliment to the XsX in the lounge.
For the device to be useful to devs having to rework PS5/XsX/high end PC software to run on it, it has to pay its way and actually account for new sales, or take sales away from PS5/PC, otherwise it is just more dev costs with no return.

Do you really think a 299$ console won't bring new sales from people who can't/won't buy a 500$ console? The idea of a cheaper box was always to bring people to the gaming ecosystem that otherwise would wait a lot more, until consoles are at 250/300, sooner. I agree that the math needs to work out in the end but we have no evidence to think what you imply: that the XsS won't justify the amount of work it takes to down-port to it. It might be a problem when PC games start having minimum requirements that are higher than what XsS can do but that hasn't happened yet. Meanwhile, all the work that needs to be done to support a game running in an old PC will be valuable when porting to the XsS, not a lot of work as you imply.

Optics wise I believe the XsS will be a bitter pill for Rockstar to swallow when they rely so heavily on matching PlayStation first party polish to entice buyers, A lowly XsS visual could damage the image of their next big game IMO - possibly not even GTA6 - and I think it is 50:50 if it will come to XsS, and whether it would then come to XsX

So what you are saying is that they will pass on between a half and a third of the PS5/Xbox market due to them not wanting to downport their game while, at the same time, having a low-spec-PC version available? I don't know how that makes any sense in your head except for being wishful thinking. Even if the min specs were higher than the XsS I don't think it would make sense to lose that much marketshare and I don't think investors would know either. Good luck getting GTA5 sales numbers only releasing on PS5 and PC more powerful than a XsS

Gamepass isn't the same as a game sale because as has been well documented by interviews with Jim, PlayStatopn have said their AAA game costs couldn't be recouped by a sub, and I'm sure that is true for publishers like Rockstar, too.

Are you implying that the quality of games in Gamepass is lower than that of AAA PlayStation or Rockstar games? It seems to make sense for a number of third party publishers and Microsoft and it will make sense for Activision, Blizzard and Bethesda when all their new games go in there day one.

 

[Kagey K]

Exactly. A huge circle Jerk in here with microsoft fans and don't even know you have to sell your left nut to find a ps5 in stock.

As has been shown in this thread and others, it's really easy to get a PS5 now (maybe not walk into a store and grab it easy) but basically always available online.

If you are selling a left nut now, you are doing so just for the sake of selling it.

In Canada stores unbundled a bunch of garbage from thier bundles because the weren't selling anymore.

Now it's a PS5 and 1 controller. Nothing else. And they still take weeks to sell out.

 

[ZywyPL]

There has always been an understanding between a console manufacturer and the consumer that the $500 console purchase is a 6-7 year investment that will pay off as you go along. You expect and accept the paltry 2-3 games at launch knowing that by the end of year 1, the console manufacturer wouldve secured several more games. then some more the year after. 2001, 2007, 2015 all all time great years. 2022? All time awful year.

I'm slowly starting to believe the current gen will last more like 8-10 years honestly, if not more, seeing how slow they're picking up the pace, how long it takes to make the games and how the companies are arming up in studios for their long-term strategies.

So picking up PS5/XSX within their first two years and expecting to be flooded with next-gen games seems rather native if you ask me.

 

[Topher]

As has been shown in this thread and others, it's really easy to get a PS5 now (maybe not walk into a store and grab it easy) but basically always available online.

If you are selling a left nut now, you are doing so just for the sake of selling it.

In Canada stores unbundled a bunch of garbage from thier bundles because the weren't selling anymore.

Now it's a PS5 and 1 controller. Nothing else. And they still take weeks to sell out.

Which stores have PS5 available online for weeks?

Canada Sony PlayStation 5 In Stock Tracker - Slim Digital, Slim Disc Consoles - NowInStock.net

Looking for Sony PlayStation 5 (PS5) but having no luck? Maybe our FREE Sony PlayStation 5 (PS5) In Stock Tracker can help!

www.nowinstock.net

 

[Jim Ryan other Clone]

A thread with 700+ comments about why Xbox sold more than playstation. They had the volumes and they sold it, the problem is not popularity but availability.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Saw my first PS5 in the wild yesterday. Looks like the market is finally stabilizing.

 

[Kagey K]

A thread with 700+ comments about why Xbox sold more than playstation. They had the volumes and they sold it, the problem is not popularity but availability.

If it was unpopular (or undesirable) would it sell?

I mean I can bottle up the rest of the turds I take in my lifetime, there will be a lot of stock.

Will it sell more than other products? I doubt it

There has to be a demand for the product to move.

 

[Riky]

I'm slowly starting to believe the current gen will last more like 8-10 years honestly, if not more, seeing how slow they're picking up the pace, how long it takes to make the games and how the companies are arming up in studios for their long-term strategies.

So picking up PS5/XSX within their first two years and expecting to be flooded with next-gen games seems rather native if you ask me.

I think you're right, I expect cost cutting revision consoles over the next 18 months and a mid gen refresh fall 2024, the days of clear cut "generations" are over for the reasons you state.

 

[Jim Ryan other Clone]

If it was unpopular (or undesirable) would it sell?

I mean I can bottle up the rest of the turds I take in my lifetime, there will be a lot of stock.

Will it sell more than other products? I doubt it

There has to be a demand for the product to move.

Yes, did I say otherwise? The problem with both consoles are availability because demand is through the roof for both of the consoles and the trolls in this thread have made 700 comment trying to one up each other with list wars and other bullshit.

 

[Sosokrates]

Did you really try and equate the Xbox Series S vs Xbox Series X as a similar situation to the PS5 versus Xbox Series X? The latter has no appreciable difference whatsoever. Xbox Series S is already getting some pretty wildly unoptimized ports well below what many would have expected.

Fact remains, juggling multiple systems is difficult and resource intensive, and at the end of the day some developers will simply not put in a whole lot of effort.

Is it? Thats really a matter of opinion, many people still play on the switch, last gen consoles and low end PCs and are not unhappy with the visuals.

Theres no seriesS which is a legitimate bad experience. I can still very happily play games on my xbox one, some do have legitimate framerate issues which does legitimately worsen the experience, that has not happened on the seriesS. People only think seriess is comprised because they are comparing it to ps5/xsx, but on its own its actually a rather caperble little console.

 

[PaintTinJr]

Do you really think a 299$ console won't bring new sales from people who can't/won't buy a 500$ console? The idea of a cheaper box was always to bring people to the gaming ecosystem that otherwise would wait a lot more, until consoles are at 250/300, sooner. I agree that the math needs to work out in the end but we have no evidence to think what you imply: that the XsS won't justify the amount of work it takes to down-port to it. It might be a problem when PC games start having minimum requirements that are higher than what XsS can do but that hasn't happened yet. Meanwhile, all the work that needs to be done to support a game running in an old PC will be valuable when porting to the XsS, not a lot of work as you imply.


So what you are saying is that they will pass on between a half and a third of the PS5/Xbox market due to them not wanting to downport their game while, at the same time, having a low-spec-PC version available? I don't know how that makes any sense in your head except for being wishful thinking. Even if the min specs were higher than the XsS I don't think it would make sense to lose that much marketshare and I don't think investors would know either. Good luck getting GTA5 sales numbers only releasing on PS5 and PC more powerful than a XsS

edit: price point historically hasn't always tracked sales of hardware as the gamecube was one of the best deals ever at launch and struggled to move the needle - even with a 1st party software lineup that is now rightfully considered brilliant by many gamers.

I'm of the belief that Xbox has roughly 40-50m customers that will buy the system and buy games on it every generation, but of those only 10-15M don't have a PC or PS where they could buy games at better or equal fidelity. The DRM situation in the Xbox I believe makes the reach of their brand less than it was in the 360 days with traditional gamers going buy friends that own XsX consoles and hardly use them and are non-lused with gamepass as a delivery method or the mostly sequel AAA content - that they feel was better years earlier. I also believe the PC minimum specs will be a RTX 2060 super/3060/4050ti/ RX 6700Xt/RX 7600XT in two years time when the GTX 1060 being able to just about run UE5 is considered below spec.

Are you implying that the quality of games in Gamepass is lower than that of AAA PlayStation or Rockstar games? It seems to make sense for a number of third party publishers and Microsoft and it will make sense for Activision, Blizzard and Bethesda when all their new games go in there day one.

I don't know about the finish, my opinion seems irrelevant to the pointm, but I beleive they don't cost PS 1st party or Rockstar money to make. Bethesda/idsoftware would have traditionally been considered AA devs IMO

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Bethesda/idsoftware would have traditionally been considered AA devs IMO

 

[Kagey K]

I'm of the belief that Xbox has roughly 40-50m customers that will buy the system and buy games on it every generation, but of those only 10-15M don't have a PC or PS where they could buy games at better or equal fidelity. The DRM situation in the Xbox I believe makes the reach of their brand less than it was in the 360 days with traditional gamers going buy friends that own XsX consoles and hardly use them and are non-lused with gamepass as a delivery method or the mostly sequel AAA content - that they feel was better years earlier. I also believe the PC minimum specs will be a RTX 2060 super/3060/4050ti/ RX 6700Xt/RX 7600XT in two years time when the GTX 1060 being able to just about run UE5 is considered below spec.

I believe you are way off the mark and don't really have a clue based on this hypothesis.

 

[Kagey K]

Embarrasing that a AA Indie like Bethesda could produce a seller like Skyrim.

What are all the AAA boys doing?

 

[Riky]

Bethesda/idsoftware would have traditionally been considered AA devs IMO

Games that sold millions of copies and take many years to make have been considered "AA", this is a new one for me. How much do you think Starfield and The Elder Scrolls VI will cost to make?
How exactly does this compare to say Rift Apart?

 

[Ozriel]

Optics wise I believe the XsS will be a bitter pill for Rockstar to swallow when they rely so heavily on matching PlayStation first party polish to entice buyers, A lowly XsS visual could damage the image of their next big game IMO - possibly not even GTA6 - and I think it is 50:50 if it will come to XsS, and whether it would then come to XsX - if they decided to pass on XsS - will depend on Xbox's decision to enforce their XsS mandate or not.

It is an interesting dilemma IMO and I guess we'll know in 2years or so.

First off, Microsoft WILL enforce that mandate until the end of the generation. It's not even a conversation devs will even worry about since they'll be happy to target an audience of millions of Series S owners.
But more importantly, we already have examples of beautiful games that still retain 95% of their visual quality on the Series S. Flight Sim looks spectacular there, as does Forza Horizon 5. Matrix is probably the most next gen thing we've seen running so far... And it runs on the Series S with some cutbacks.

Hellblade 2 and the Coalition's next AAA game will push Best-in-class visuals and will run on the Series S. So no need for you to wait years until the GTA6 reveal.

This whole thing seems like wishful thinking on your part. Even you must know that you're bound to be gravely disappointed when the XSS gets strongly supported to the end of the gen.

 

[Kagey K]

Games that sold millions of copies and take many years to make have been considered "AA", this is a new one for me. How much do you think Starfield and The Elder Scrolls VI will cost to make?
How exactly does this compare to say Rift Apart?

You cant compare a AA like Skyrim to an Indie game like Rift Apart now. (If we are talking development time and dollars spent)

That's not fair.