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I don't understand how/why games take so many steps backwards in newer releases (LTTP: AC: Origins)

I decided to give up on AC after being really disappointed with AC: Valhalla. I put about 50 hours into it as it was the first game I got with my XSX (had XSX since day 1)

saw that Origins was on gamepass so decided to give it a go given that I love ancient Egypt. Pretty much everything the game does, it does better than Valhalla. I HATED the loot system in Valhalla. Origins, on the other hand, handles it beautifully.

I don't understand how/why they decide to fuck something up like this. What is the thought process that goes behind this? why not improve upon the already great system, instead of swapping it out for something vastly inferior. was this done intentionally to motivate people to buy weapons through DLC/ubisoft store? they couldn't possibly think Valhalla was an upgrade in that department.

I feel like a lot of games do this, but I can usually understand some of the thought processes behind it. Skyrim's leveling system I thought was a downgrade from Oblivion, but I can kinda understand the appeal of simplifying it for a wider audience.

having way more fun than I thought I would with Origins. game also runs and looks great on the XSX.
 
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Stuart360

Member
Although i think Valhalla is a good game, and a good entry for AC since it went more open world RPG, Origins and Odyssey are considerably better games imo.
I always got the sense when playing Valhalla that somuch was either streamlined, or taken out completely, almost like Ubisoft were really struggling to get the game ready for its release date
 

Heimdall_Xtreme

Jim Ryan Fanclub's #1 Member
Although i think Valhalla is a good game, and a good entry for AC since it went more open world RPG, Origins and Odyssey are considerably better games imo.
I always got the sense when playing Valhalla that somuch was either streamlined, or taken out completely, almost like Ubisoft were really struggling to get the game ready for its release date

In this Assassins creed

Can you kill people without penalty?
 
D3TjMkk.gif
 

Alandring

Member
I had that with Vampire The Masquerade - Swansong, released last month. The game is okay, but I really, really prefered The Council, the previous game of this studio. The progression and the confrontation system were much better.
 

Swift_Star

Banned
Origins is a grind snoozefest. Forcing you to make side quests in order to level up and then be able to tackle on the main quest is shitty design, definitely one of the worst games I’ve ever played and it made me drop AC entirely, a series that I previously loved.
 

FunkMiller

Gold Member
Ubisoft as a company have been descending into the shit for years now. This kind of backstep in the quality of their games is explained by this. They get worse. The games get worse. Hopefully there’s a buyout sometime soon.
 

ReBurn

Gold Member
I started Origins when the 60 fps patch dropped and I'm liking it so far. The main thing that bothers me right now is that the main characters are speaking one language and the npc's are speaking another unless they shout out to the main character. They sound like Sims and it grates on me a bit.
 
Origins is a grind snoozefest. Forcing you to make side quests in order to level up and then be able to tackle on the main quest is shitty design, definitely one of the worst games I’ve ever played and it made me drop AC entirely, a series that I previously loved.
I don't know how anyone loves this series. All I ever hear is that's its a bloated, boring archetype of Ubisoft design. I thought black flag was awesome, but even then it got tedious. You really should have know what was in store. It sounds like an RPG that's trying way to hard to RPG.
 

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
Well, you’re going backwards here. They did follow up Origin’s system in Odyssey, which increased all of stuff you could improve on. There was much more to level up via crafting supplies, which really made it all a bit bloated.

They made the change because people piss and moan all the time. So with Valhalla, they tried putting fewer icons on the map and didn’t go as hard and heavy with the loot.

Hell, I now often see people holding Unity up as some amazing AC game compared to Origins/Odyssey despite being the poster child for map icon overkill, and bloat.

No matter what Ubi does people are going to complain, so they’re damned no matter what they do.
 

Swift_Star

Banned
I don't know how anyone loves this series. All I ever hear is that's its a bloated, boring archetype of Ubisoft design. I thought black flag was awesome, but even then it got tedious. You really should have know what was in store. It sounds like an RPG that's trying way to hard to RPG.
Yeah, it’s filled with meaningless fetch quests and the leveling pace is like molasses. I had to force myself to finish the game. That’s how bad it was.
 
Well, you’re going backwards here. They did follow up Origin’s system in Odyssey, which increased all of stuff you could improve on. There was much more to level up via crafting supplies, which really made it all a bit bloated.

They made the change because people piss and moan all the time. So with Valhalla, they tried putting fewer icons on the map and didn’t go as hard and heavy with the loot.

Hell, I now often see people holding Unity up as some amazing AC game compared to Origins/Odyssey despite being the poster child for map icon overkill, and bloat.

No matter what Ubi does people are going to complain, so they’re damned no matter what they do.
As far as I'm concerned Black Flag is the only legit good one. I was so bored playing the others. I didn't even pretend I was gonna play Unity after the launch debacle, and I've ignored the series since. I find the fact I still hear about it on a regular basis hilarious, mostly because it seems like people subject themselves to the mediocrity and are flabbergasted.
 
Yeah, it’s filled with meaningless fetch quests and the leveling pace is like molasses. I had to force myself to finish the game. That’s how bad it was.
Sounds like AC to me lol. These games just seem like mindless time thieves at this point. I always feel people talking about a game respecting there time as lame and insufferable, I'll give a pass to anyone talking about this series.
 
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Warablo

Member
Yes, lots of them. I’m playing one right now and origins has shitty grindfest design. It’s designed like that so you either pay for the XP boosts or grind through side quests. Trash game.
I think you're thinking of Odyssey or Valhalla
 

Lupin25

Member
Devs are trying to extend the life of their franchises by hitting refresh in some aspects.

AC: Origins is actually a good game lol,
AC: Odyssey is even better. The problem is they’re not great “Assassin Creed” games anymore (lack of stealth, bloated worlds, collectathon, etc.), the franchise lost it’s identity for the sake of trying something new.

Now even THAT formula has grown stale, and why we’re waiting on a reboot.
 
Devs are trying to extend the life of their franchises by hitting refresh in some aspects.

AC: Origins is actually a good game lol,
AC: Odyssey is even better. The problem is they’re not great “Assassin Creed” games anymore (lack of stealth, bloated worlds, collectathon, etc.), the franchise lost it’s identity for the sake of trying something new.

Now even THAT formula has grown stale, and why we’re waiting on a reboot.
BP5a9fq.gif

I think devs should be ready to take stale franchise behind the barn and do what needs to be done. Go out while it's still good( a little late for AC admittedly).
 
Well, you’re going backwards here. They did follow up Origin’s system in Odyssey, which increased all of stuff you could improve on. There was much more to level up via crafting supplies, which really made it all a bit bloated.

They made the change because people piss and moan all the time. So with Valhalla, they tried putting fewer icons on the map and didn’t go as hard and heavy with the loot.

Hell, I now often see people holding Unity up as some amazing AC game compared to Origins/Odyssey despite being the poster child for map icon overkill, and bloat.

No matter what Ubi does people are going to complain, so they’re damned no matter what they do.
Assassin's Creed has reached Final Fantasy status where everyone has their few favorite entries and the other ones are all deemed bad.
 

Lupin25

Member
BP5a9fq.gif

I think devs should be ready to take stale franchise behind the barn and do what needs to be done. Go out while it's still good( a little late for AC admittedly).

Yep.

Should just end it now (at least depart from the Assassin’s Creed name). This game resembles nothing how it used to with games like AC2 & AC3 (which kinda sucks for kids these days).

The worst part is while their newer games regressed in some areas, they’re still selling enough for new entries. Valhalla was probably the worst in the series. Switching lore, copy/paste soulslike combat & making the world bigger and more of a quest fetch isn’t enough for real improvement anymore personally.
 
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Reizo Ryuu

Gold Member
saw that Origins was on gamepass so decided to give it a go given that I love ancient Egypt. Pretty much everything the game does, it does better than Valhalla. I HATED the loot system in Valhalla. Origins, on the other hand, handles it beautifully.
This is nonsense, Valhalla doesn't have a loot system.
Nobody like the dumb gear levels and enemy level gating in origins and odyssey and UBI removed it in valhalla; this isn't borderlands or destiny 2, it's a murder simulator.
There's nothing that origins does better than valhalla, even the setting is subjective. I guess if you want a big open world RPG with side quests everywhere that you have to grind for levels/gear, sure origins is "better", if you want an actual assassination game with vastly improved stealth mechanics where you don't have to worry about enemy stats, going into your inventory every 10 minutes to equip the thing with bigger green arrows, or have to bother with a billion side quests, valhalla is simply strictly superior.
 

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
Devs are trying to extend the life of their franchises by hitting refresh in some aspects.

AC: Origins is actually a good game lol,
AC: Odyssey is even better. The problem is they’re not great “Assassin Creed” games anymore (lack of stealth, bloated worlds, collectathon, etc.), the franchise lost it’s identity for the sake of trying something new.

Now even THAT formula has grown stale, and why we’re waiting on a reboot.

I’m not sure we’re getting a reboot. It sounded like they wanted to transform it into a GaaS title, which for me spells the end.
Personally I loved Origins. I thought the combat was the best, it wasn’t too overly bloated, and the world itself was fantastic.
Story wise it made sense that Origins and Odyssey lacked the Assassin blade, as they took place before it became a thing.
I think what they need to do is eliminate the RPG style leveling. That’s the cause of all the bloat, over abundance of loot, and enemies not dying in one hit kills due to their levels.
Red Dead Redemption 2 shows how you can do an amazing open world without any of that shit. There’s no level 20 shotguns or chaps with +15 to headshots. We don’t need the rpg shit. I’d say shrink the world a bit, but then RDR2 and Elden Ring prove that’s not necessary either.

Just make it interesting.
 
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I’m not sure we’re getting a reboot. It sounded like they wanted to transform it into a GaaS title, which for me spells the end.
Personally I loved Origins. I thought the combat was the best, it wasn’t too overly bloated, and the world itself was fantastic.
Story wise it made sense that Origins and Odyssey lacked the Assassin blade, as they took place before it became a thing.
I think what they need to do is eliminate the RPG style leveling. That’s the cause of all the bloat, over abundance of loot, and enemies not dying in one hit kills due to their levels.
Red Dead Redemption 2 shows how you can do an amazing open world without any of that shit. There’s no level 20 shotguns or chaps with +15 to headshots. We don’t need the rpg shit. I’d say shrink the world a bit, but then RDR2 and Elden Ring prove that’s not necessary.
I haven't personally played the new AC games, but it seems like they over do the RPG systems to monetize. If they just scaled back and stop being greedy(I know) it would alleviate a lot of bloat and monotony. Just make a game and not an ATM is what I'm saying.
 

Laptop1991

Member
Valhalla is disappointing compared to Origin's and Odyssey, there are some aspects of the game i like, but the story isn't as good, the checklist activities become a bit of a chore, the combat is inferior and the stealth is pointless, the cloak never works and the game clearly wants you to fight all the time, also the scripted random encounters are irritating as well, they should stop after you clear an area, i do really like the setting though, but it still wasn't made as well as the previous 2 titles for me. I agree with the OP.

The store works brilliantly though!.
 
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Yep.

Should just end it now (at least depart from the Assassin’s Creed name). This game resembles nothing how it used to with games like AC2 & AC3 (which kinda sucks for kids these days).

The worst part is while their newer games regressed in some areas, they’re still selling enough for new entries. Valhalla was probably the worst in the series. Switching lore, copy/paste soulslike combat & making the world bigger and more of a quest fetch isn’t enough for real improvement anymore personally.
Lol Valhalla is the most profitable ac game ever. I prefer Odyssey and Origins but where else are you gonna get these massive Witcher 3 like worlds.
Be my guest people wanna wait 5 years and a delay to get as big as an open world as a ubisoft game.
 
Well, you’re going backwards here. They did follow up Origin’s system in Odyssey, which increased all of stuff you could improve on. There was much more to level up via crafting supplies, which really made it all a bit bloated.

They made the change because people piss and moan all the time. So with Valhalla, they tried putting fewer icons on the map and didn’t go as hard and heavy with the loot.

Hell, I now often see people holding Unity up as some amazing AC game compared to Origins/Odyssey despite being the poster child for map icon overkill, and bloat.

No matter what Ubi does people are going to complain, so they’re damned no matter what they do.
People complain because Ubi can't seem make a definitively great, polished game. They take one step forward and one step back in each AC game. They all suffer from some unacceptable performance issues too except for Origins. There really wasn't much complaining about Origins until years later, why? Because that was the one game they took an extra year to make and they knew they HAD to make a great impression with since it was the first of this new style of AC.
 

Lupin25

Member
I’m not sure we’re getting a reboot. It sounded like they wanted to transform it into a GaaS title, which for me spells the end.
Personally I loved Origins. I thought the combat was the best, it wasn’t too overly bloated, and the world itself was fantastic.
Story wise it made sense that Origins and Odyssey lacked the Assassin blade, as they took place before it became a thing.
I think what they need to do is eliminate the RPG style leveling. That’s the cause of all the bloat, over abundance of loot, and enemies not dying in one hit kills due to their levels.
Red Dead Redemption 2 shows how you can do an amazing open world without any of that shit. There’s no level 20 shotguns or chaps with +15 to headshots. We don’t need the rpg shit. I’d say shrink the world a bit, but then RDR2 and Elden Ring prove that’s not necessary either.

Just make it interesting.

It sounds as if they may do away much of future narrative for now. I’m curious to see how AC can become a live service game…

I agree that the RPG levelling needs to be dialed back, I’m not so sure about eradicating it because the combat is pretty much the “core” of these games now. Stealth and story have taken somewhat of a backseat. Even Elden Ring has levelling, with some enemies being essentially unbeatable at first & gated behind them.

I actually wish Ubi hadn’t departed so much of what the formula had become during the Unity/Syndicate era. They need to find which direction this game is headed.

I think AC could’ve improved upon its stealth elements by utilizing its open world with more innovative mechanics (much like Splinter Cell or MGS). Tailing enemies could’ve became more of a puzzle (think A Plague Tale: Innocence) rather than a boring, but necessary chore to gain intel.

I haven't personally played the new AC games, but it seems like they over do the RPG systems to monetize. If they just scaled back and stop being greedy(I know) it would alleviate a lot of bloat and monotony. Just make a game and not an ATM is what I'm saying.

It’s an option, but it’s not necessarily needed to discover weapon/gear upgrades or further the storyline.

The monetization seems to simply aid those who want to 100% the (bloated) world as fast as possible. I’ve haven’t used them.
 

Fools idol

Banned
Almost every downgrade these days by Ubisoft is an intentional design decision to encourage more monetization.

One and done.

games made by public companies are not about being good or enjoyable. shareholders don't give a shit - they want profits = loot and digital transactions.
 
It sounds as if they may do away much of future narrative for now. I’m curious to see how AC can become a live service game…

I agree that the RPG levelling needs to be dialed back, I’m not so sure about eradicating it because the combat is pretty much the “core” of these games now. Stealth and story have taken somewhat of a backseat. Even Elden Ring has levelling, with some enemies being essentially unbeatable at first & gated behind them.

I actually wish Ubi hadn’t departed so much of what the formula had become during the Unity/Syndicate era. They need to find which direction this game is headed.

I think AC could’ve improved upon its stealth elements by utilizing its open world with more innovative mechanics (much like Splinter Cell or MGS). Tailing enemies could’ve became more of a puzzle (think A Plague Tale: Innocence) rather than a boring, but necessary chore to gain intel.



It’s an option, but it’s not necessarily needed to discover weapon/gear upgrades or further the storyline.

The monetization seems to simply aid those who want to 100% the (bloated) world as fast as possible. I’ve haven’t used them.
Oh I know it's possible to 100 without spending, but at what cost? It's probably more a me thing at this point with open world Ubisoft, but I miss Farcry 3 Ubisoft.
 
Farcry 3, AC2 Ubisoft were peak Ubisoft.
Never played AC2, but all I ever heard was how much it improved from thr first. Do we need a crash to get these fucks some perspective? The only reason I don't want one is because of all the awesome devs we'd lose in the process.
 

ClosBSAS

Member
Origins is a grind snoozefest. Forcing you to make side quests in order to level up and then be able to tackle on the main quest is shitty design, definitely one of the worst games I’ve ever played and it made me drop AC entirely, a series that I previously loved.
See..on PC...u get a trainer and that's not an issue anymore lol.
 

Roni

Gold Member
Crunch and mismanagement lead to talent evasion and newer releases end up being developed by junior talent that needs to learn on the job.
 
It sounds as if they may do away much of future narrative for now. I’m curious to see how AC can become a live service game…

I agree that the RPG levelling needs to be dialed back, I’m not so sure about eradicating it because the combat is pretty much the “core” of these games now. Stealth and story have taken somewhat of a backseat. Even Elden Ring has levelling, with some enemies being essentially unbeatable at first & gated behind them.

I actually wish Ubi hadn’t departed so much of what the formula had become during the Unity/Syndicate era. They need to find which direction this game is headed.

I think AC could’ve improved upon its stealth elements by utilizing its open world with more innovative mechanics (much like Splinter Cell or MGS). Tailing enemies could’ve became more of a puzzle (think A Plague Tale: Innocence) rather than a boring, but necessary chore to gain intel.



It’s an option, but it’s not necessarily needed to discover weapon/gear upgrades or further the storyline.

The monetization seems to simply aid those who want to 100% the (bloated) world as fast as possible. I’ve haven’t used them.
If that's true it then valhalla will be the last ac game for me. I own them all starting with ac 1 and even bloodlines on psp. There isn't one ac game I don't have. They will have lost a customer if they go gaas with it. Idiots. Maybe it's an age thing but I don't get live service type stuff it's a turnoff. At 43, nah. Give me single player with substance and rpg elements in a large world. Or give me the old school crowd stealth or my fav deus ex/thief/splinter cell ligght and shadow stealth.
 
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RavageX

Member
Valhalla is just so boring. I can not connect with the characters, most of the other AC series made me interested in the story somehow, except definitely and Syndicate and Valhalla.

Maybe ill enjoy the odin stuff if i get to it.
 

radewagon

Member
The extent to which Ubisoft threw out the baby with the bathwater after they 180'd on Unity is something I will never forgive. Unity wasn't perfect, but darned if it didn't force you to plan out your approach using stealth because of how stupidly hard combat was (when compared to previous entries). It took a while for Unity to click with me, but once it did, I started to really respect the way it disincentivized brute force solutions.
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
See..on PC...u get a trainer and that's not an issue anymore lol.

For Origins specifically, if you have the season pass, or the DLC episodes separately, you can just straight up boost your character to LV 45 after beating the first story mission if you want to.

That .. helps .. a lot and you can toggle the enemies to be scaled to your level, so it doesn't feel like you're cheating with one hit kills.

I don't recall that the Odyssey or Valhalla DLC lets you do that, but in those cases you can straight up buy XP multipliers for a few bucks lol.
 
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CatLady

Selfishly plays on Xbox Purr-ies X
For Origins specifically, if you have the season pass, or the DLC episodes separately, you can just straight up boost your character to LV 45 after beating the first story mission if you want to.

That .. helps .. a lot and you can toggle the enemies to be scaled to your level, so it doesn't feel like you're cheating with one hit kills.

I don't recall that the Odyssey or Valhalla DLC lets you do that, but in those cases you can straight up buy XP multipliers for a few bucks lol.

I don't know why anyone would need to grind, boost levels or buy XP multipliers especially for Origins, to me it was the easiest of the last 3 AssCreeds. I for sure liked Origins with Bayek and Aya much better than Valhalla and Eivor. I loved Odessey the most playing as Kassandra. She was a fantastic character. The voice actor for Deimos sucked apparently.

I really liked all 3 of the AC RPG-like games and I'm not sure why people love to hate on the series so much. I've never spent a cent on MTX and I don't even notice them in the games. I have bought the season passes for Origins and Odessey and they were well worth the money. They had tons of content, great stories and wee much better than so many full games. Fate of Atlantis was awesome.
 
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