OsirisBlack
Banned
I think mobile games as a whole should be banned, well the ones with pay to win/play and the gambling mechanic bs. That’s not gaming it’s leaning into addictive and unhealthy behaviors and exploiting them.
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Diablo Immortal is heavily pay to win. Don't login for a day you will lose items you paid for
- Thread starter nani17
- Start date
I don't play these games, and I don't like this practice in the industry. I think the issue becomes a lesser issue if all the mechanics and content are available for the free players (assuming a PVE game) and if the game isn't designed so that you need either the cash to beat it or massive amounts of time to access content.
There is an issue that the financial support of these games will incentive the industry to push in this direction, and this was shown to be true. The reason this is an "issue" is that less time and effort is spent with good game design, mechanics and creativity, thus leading to less and less variety of games as well as less quality.
Yes, gaming is a hobby, made for fun, entirely optional. I'm not saying (and I don't think most people are saying) that this is something that "impacts people's lives" or need "legal intervention". The companies have freedom to do this, and people have the freedom to be annoyed when their hobbies are made worse, or when they're annoyed in general. While one can just don't play, as I've don't most of the times, I can also complain when I want. It doesn't necessarily mean I will change anything. And some times, some complaints are illogical, and other people have the right to criticize complaints as well.
However, I'd like to add that a lot of this won't really lead anywhere. As many have said, "we have to stop supporting this". But this collective "we" doesn't exist. At the end of the day, that's a main issue with anything that requires "the majority's action". You might say that my mentality won't help, and you're right. But this "Let's change it together guys" behaviour never helps either, as much as I'd like it to happen.
Maybe there's a more direct approach to reach the majority, or other means. But I don't know. While I think most people would actually enjoy less of these practices, I have no idea how to collectively incentive the majority to persue this goal and temporarily cease whatever short term pleasure they have with this to think about the long term. Again, this is something that is a general problem, not just limited to gaming.
At least there is comfort knowing that the market still has quite a variety, so you don't have just the 2 choices of "becoming a part of it or not playing games at all".
There is an issue that the financial support of these games will incentive the industry to push in this direction, and this was shown to be true. The reason this is an "issue" is that less time and effort is spent with good game design, mechanics and creativity, thus leading to less and less variety of games as well as less quality.
Yes, gaming is a hobby, made for fun, entirely optional. I'm not saying (and I don't think most people are saying) that this is something that "impacts people's lives" or need "legal intervention". The companies have freedom to do this, and people have the freedom to be annoyed when their hobbies are made worse, or when they're annoyed in general. While one can just don't play, as I've don't most of the times, I can also complain when I want. It doesn't necessarily mean I will change anything. And some times, some complaints are illogical, and other people have the right to criticize complaints as well.
However, I'd like to add that a lot of this won't really lead anywhere. As many have said, "we have to stop supporting this". But this collective "we" doesn't exist. At the end of the day, that's a main issue with anything that requires "the majority's action". You might say that my mentality won't help, and you're right. But this "Let's change it together guys" behaviour never helps either, as much as I'd like it to happen.
Maybe there's a more direct approach to reach the majority, or other means. But I don't know. While I think most people would actually enjoy less of these practices, I have no idea how to collectively incentive the majority to persue this goal and temporarily cease whatever short term pleasure they have with this to think about the long term. Again, this is something that is a general problem, not just limited to gaming.
At least there is comfort knowing that the market still has quite a variety, so you don't have just the 2 choices of "becoming a part of it or not playing games at all".
Spaceman292
Banned
How can someone write this shit and not be embarrassed?will be more than happy to spend some money in itI've spent some money in games like Genshin, Fortnite, Rocket League, Overwatch, etc. I like buying some loot boxes, skins, etc. I'm an adult and can do what I want with my money
Krathoon
Member
How in the heck did mobile games become so crooked anyways? I guess people don't want to spend much so it became manipulative.
Fox Mulder
Member
Lol mobile games. Governments should step in regulating this trash.
There’s decades of video games that were created before this bullshit took over, I’ll never fall into playing this stuff.
There’s decades of video games that were created before this bullshit took over, I’ll never fall into playing this stuff.
MiguelItUp
Member
hey I’ve got to the last level with good gear and haven’t spent any money!! How did I do that !!??
You're clearly playing the wrong game as we've been told by folks in this thread and others that you LITERALLY can't do that without hitting a paywall.
And do. . .what, exactly?
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Not at all. No need to participate.
Doctor Hades
Member
I was enjoying this game up to a point on PC (playing solo) even though it felt a bit off due to being a mobile game primarily and a PC game second. The game plays fine and looks quite nice for a mobile game but once you finish the tutorial then the game suddenly becomes a lot uglier and the grind and the way the game is designed around microtransactions ultimately drains all the life out of it for me. I got to a boss battle, kept dying and ended up just uninstalling it yesterday. I will not be playing it again on either PC or my iPad Pro M1. It is not for me.
I would happily pay for a complete game (Diablo 4 will hopefully be that game) that is properly balanced but I just do not see the point of playing these kind of games where you either have to endure tedious amounts of repetitive grind or pay up to progress through the game. On mobile platforms, it is fine, you generally do not play these for hours at a time but this just feels ill-suited to PC, or console for that matter. It is free yes but microtransactions, as with many games like this, just make a soulless dreary experience in the end.
I would happily pay for a complete game (Diablo 4 will hopefully be that game) that is properly balanced but I just do not see the point of playing these kind of games where you either have to endure tedious amounts of repetitive grind or pay up to progress through the game. On mobile platforms, it is fine, you generally do not play these for hours at a time but this just feels ill-suited to PC, or console for that matter. It is free yes but microtransactions, as with many games like this, just make a soulless dreary experience in the end.
Zug
Member
Gambling games are regulated in many countries because they are destructive to some people. Pay-to-win games trigger the same itch and should fall in the same category.
MiguelItUp
Member
STARSBarry
Gold Member
What great is that some people don't realise just how bad it is, regulated gambling has things like that for a win on a fruit machine it has to pay out 70% of what it takes in.
My favourite example is roulette, if you place a bet in roulette on a single number you have a 37 to 1 chance or 2.7%. This is one of the lowest odds in regulated gambling for no payout and it depends if your playing European or American Roulette as the European drops the 00 meaning you get slightly better odds, however the payout for a single number is huge naturally, 35 times your bet. So let's look at the jack pot in the unregulated mobile space, to get a five star in genshin impact even taking the 200 spin pity rate into account it is 0.6%.
Picture betting on a single number only on roulette, would you take it? Would you feel like you had a chance? Now picture that the wheel had 4 times as many numbers with the same payout rate... would you still make a bet? Because essentially that's what mobile has been normalising for a decade now.
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xpresstuning
Member
I imagine it is hard for a beginner because it's not nearly as approachable or as flashy, and it's very slow paced in the beginning. It picks up the pace once you get some decent items going, which is usually in late mid-game (a ways into Nightmare difficulty). And once it gets the ball rolling, there's no stopping because of the excellent itemization and loot drop table which i think is the best of its genre.
I played a couple of paladin builds, right now i'm playing a strafezon (amazon using the Strafe skill).
Katajx
Gold Member
It’s definitely the slower pace and leveling for me.
The abilities I got in the first 20 minutes of Immortal felt more fun and satisfying to use than the ones I got earliy in D2:R
I even like the skeleton warriors and mage more.
GymWolf
Member
My problem with exile is that he doesn't have satisfying gore and especially zero ragdoll from what i saw on yt, i can't return back to something worse than diablo 3, no matter how good the mechanics are, i need to feel the weight and sense of power of my hits when i play an ARPG.
Diablo 4 at least look as good as d3 ragdoll wise.
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Kacho
Gold Member
You know people generally play ARPGs for the end game grind and not story content, right?hey I’ve got to the last level with good gear and haven’t spent any money!! How did I do that !!??
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Swift_Star
Banned
Was playing the game a few minutes ago and I can’t understand why are some people freaking out. The game hasn’t even once made me go to the store.
MiguelItUp
Member
That's exactly where I was with it. There's so much about it that I dig, but the lack of gore and ragdoll just makes it feel so dated to me. I'm hoping 2 changes that, but we'll see I guess. Agree with D4.
strange headache
Banned
Ah yes, because clearly consumer protection is a partisan issue
You really are the prime target audience for Diablo: Immoral.
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GymWolf
Member
I saw a trailer of exile 2 and i still see zero ragdoll.
Diablo 3 was shitted on by everyone but i know no other ARPG with such satysfying gameplay, not titan quest, not exile, not last epoch, no vikings, no nothing.
Wolcen and grim dawn are the closest ones but still not as good.
RoboFu
One of the green rats
Oh I didn't know I was playing for that...
and I didn't know it was impossible.. I should just stop playing now!
MiguelItUp
Member
Yeah, I remember seeing it in earlier gameplay and hoped it would change later on. Guess not.
Yeah, I enjoyed 3 for what it was, enjoyed it a lot more by the time RoS dropped. But I totally agree, it felt incredibly satisfying to send enemies flying, haha. I was always curious to know if any ARPGs gave off that vibe that I missed. All the ones I followed looked like they didn't quite deliver in that satisfaction.
Kacho
Gold Member
Sounds like you won't be sticking around long anyway.Oh I didn't know I was playing for that...
The early game story content in ARPGs is basically garbage time. The real game starts at max level and it's all about the chase for power. That's where the MTX really come into play and that's the issue. Hope that helps.
GymWolf
Member
Grim dawn, wolcen, vikings and titan quest all have decent ragdoll\gore.Yeah, I remember seeing it in earlier gameplay and hoped it would change later on. Guess not.
Yeah, I enjoyed 3 for what it was, enjoyed it a lot more by the time RoS dropped. But I totally agree, it felt incredibly satisfying to send enemies flying, haha. I was always curious to know if any ARPGs gave off that vibe that I missed. All the ones I followed looked like they didn't quite deliver in that satisfaction.
Just watch some gameplay on yt.
Last epoch has ragdoll for humanoid creatures but not for many small enemies.
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MiguelItUp
Member
I almost forgot about Wolcen. I was always curious about TQ ever since I was younger. I should really check it out, I've put it aside for far too long. Grim Dawn too! Appreciate the recommendation push, haha!
Mephisto40
Member
The person that put $100 into the game has gear that is 400% better than yours, you don't have 'good' gearhey I’ve got to the last level with good gear and haven’t spent any money!! How did I do that !!??
Also good luck completing any of the end game content with your 'good' gear
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Calling 911 Melts Beams
Banned
ive already maxed out all of my characters in diablo immortal and am eagerly awaiting new content to tackle with my wallet
sorry you guys are all so poor
sorry you guys are all so poor
TrebleShot
Member
Sony will release a couple of these F2P games soon out of their mobile division.
Not joking , I’m looking forward to it.
Not joking , I’m looking forward to it.
GymWolf
Member
Titan quest is strange, most of the times the enemies just crumbles like sackpuppets (with ragdoll) and sometimes you send them fly.
But i only played like 5 hours of that one.
Solarstrike
Member
Played it at length with my bro
ultrazilla
last night, on PC. Gotta say, if who's rating these games lately is involved with making decisions for society in the future, we are all fucking doomed. The game is great. For what it is (a mobile), I've seen nowhere in the game where it shovels a pay to win or and in-game store in my face forcing me to buy anything. If anything, it gave me stuff for free. Graphics are detailed, environments atmospherics are great, sound to include the music is incredible. There's drops of all sorts, in game rewards a plenty as well. Play control is good (could be better though) sometimes you stop attacking then have to go to a safe spot until the game "catches up". Or your character will decide to start running by him/herself. There is some lag issues such as when you log in for a minute or so as you sync up to the client and other players. It resolves itself but can be rough at times. Speaking of other players, you'll see them now in this iteration of Diablo, everywhere. Once you pass the first area and the boss, multiplayer opens up. You can then do coop, join in dungeons, bounties, etc. OK I don't want to go on and on but holy fuck people. This early judgment/rush to judgement mentality is dangerous.
ultrazilla
last night, on PC. Gotta say, if who's rating these games lately is involved with making decisions for society in the future, we are all fucking doomed. The game is great. For what it is (a mobile), I've seen nowhere in the game where it shovels a pay to win or and in-game store in my face forcing me to buy anything. If anything, it gave me stuff for free. Graphics are detailed, environments atmospherics are great, sound to include the music is incredible. There's drops of all sorts, in game rewards a plenty as well. Play control is good (could be better though) sometimes you stop attacking then have to go to a safe spot until the game "catches up". Or your character will decide to start running by him/herself. There is some lag issues such as when you log in for a minute or so as you sync up to the client and other players. It resolves itself but can be rough at times. Speaking of other players, you'll see them now in this iteration of Diablo, everywhere. Once you pass the first area and the boss, multiplayer opens up. You can then do coop, join in dungeons, bounties, etc. OK I don't want to go on and on but holy fuck people. This early judgment/rush to judgement mentality is dangerous.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Never understood why games with Mtx loot crate kinds of gambling mechanics aren’t under strict controls by gov like a casino or sports betting.
If a company does some contest or raffle they got to post the odds of getting each thing.
But with gaming they can whip out whatever the hell they want. And gaming is something tied to kids. Entering a raffle to win a boat cruise isn’t.
Maybe since it’s digital they don’t give a shit or it’s just so rampant they can’t control all the game makers doing it so they give up.
If a company does some contest or raffle they got to post the odds of getting each thing.
But with gaming they can whip out whatever the hell they want. And gaming is something tied to kids. Entering a raffle to win a boat cruise isn’t.
Maybe since it’s digital they don’t give a shit or it’s just so rampant they can’t control all the game makers doing it so they give up.
Pallas
Gold Member
It’s a free-to-play/pay-to-win game. Not justifying some of these outrageous prices but they aren’t forcing you to buy it. I’d be a b lit more annoyed if you had to buy the game first.
Also, a lot of gacha games offers “subscriptions” to get daily rewards for logging in. This isn’t anything new.
Also, a lot of gacha games offers “subscriptions” to get daily rewards for logging in. This isn’t anything new.
AncientOrigin
Member
It is way better than Diablo 3 I played Diablo 3 for thousands of hours in coop and alone and I played thousands of hours of Path of Exile in path of exile the hits feel way better heavier more connected I know that best because I play melee I can’t take Diablo 3 serious because the graphics is kids graphics so are the enemies In path of exile the enemies have nice animations when dying ragdoll for a game like that would be nonsense with 100 dead enemies around you in path of exile you walk over them like you would do in real world if they all would move while moving that would look bad and very distracting because there is enough going on on screen
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Yea not sure what’s going on. He is trying to prove how predatory the game is by spending insane amounts of money on it? That’s like the opposite of what to do if you don’t like something.
Urban
Member
i mean he has the money? And he says "he is doing it to show how bad the game is". Ofcourse he is doing it for the viewership and the content but its still pretty crazy to spent so much money on a game and not even get a 5 star.
Darkmakaimura
Member
Console version you don't have to be logged in to play Diablo 3.
Yea he has the money but he has fans who don’t. I’m sure some of them will watch and want to try to get a 5 star. He is saying one thing and doing another.
Urban
Member
I get what you say but if you as a viewer get "challenged" by watching him and wanting to be better/faster than him, while everybody in the internet or streamer say that the game is p2w, than there is already no hope for you.
Gandih42
Member
For F2P games I would add that it's not just less time spent with good game design, but the games design actively being steered towards incentivising you to spend money for a better experience. Which in my mind can only result in an experience that's less worth your time, even the less egregious examples like Warframe or Path of Exile. For instance, I think Path of Exile would be a better game if the cosmetics were something you unlocked naturally through well placed play.
It should however also be said that F2P can be incredibly beneficial to people who can't afford full priced games, and in that sense I think it's quite amazing what you can get for zero bucks. I have friends who exclusively play these types games and they never run out of games to play.
It is really when you start seeing full priced releases getting affected by the trends of F2P monetization that it gets worrysome, in my opinion. I don't think there's much you can do to sway the "majority". These games typically aim for the lowest demoninator and that's how things work in general, not just games.
Luckily, I think this problem kind of cuts both ways. Just like there's a massive market for the F2P model, the full priced model also has a market. so I don't think we'll see it die out anytime soon, and I think we'll have more options then ever for quite a while still
Shadowstar39
Member
Its the phone market, Casuals will eat it up unfortunately. Look at all the suckers who pay for this crap on f2p phone games. They also do it now on consoles w fortnite and now cod or any of those crap battle royale games. People here handwaived concerns about Gaas games. The whole mobile market is like this, outside of a few remakes that they charge full prices for, and for roguelikes. Everything else is crap on android/ios.
Thankfully arpgs like , D2/d3, torchlight2, Titan quest w/expansions, and other games like Dragons Dogma (love that one) are all on the switch and I can forget about mobile gaming on a phone.