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One Dev’s Xbox Struggles May Show How Game Pass Is Already Changing Games -Vice

Ezekiel_

Banned
Link to article : https://www.vice.com/en/article/4aw...-show-how-game-pass-is-already-changing-games

The 2016 cult action game 'Furi' is getting updated for 2022, except on Xbox, where the developers couldn't make the math work.

Recently, developer The Game Bakers announced it would release an unexpected update to Furi, its stylish mashup from 2016 of action and bullet hell, where players fight a parade of demanding bosses. This update, featuring a new character and an upgraded version for PlayStation 5 players, would be released on PC, PlayStation 4 and 5, and Switch. Very specifically, it would not be released on Xbox, even though Furi originally released there. Which prompted some understandable frustration from folks who exclusively play on Xbox.

“We have heard all of you who played Furi on Xbox and we understand your frustration,” reads a series of tweets from The Game Bakers, trying to explain why it’s skipping Xbox. “We are a small indie team and we couldn’t find the time and budget to make that port.”

Furi is the definition of a cult classic, a game with a small but dedicated audience that’s maintained a constant word of mouth about how great it is, helping it sell over time. But it didn’t become a cult classic on every platform, and specifically, it didn’t catch fire on Xbox, a space where, according to the developer, the best path to success is Game Pass or bust.

All of this gave the studio immense pause when it was considering revisiting Furi in 2022.

The game has sold “year after year,” according to The Game Bakers co-founders and president Audrey Leprince in an interview with Waypoint, and a break in-between major projects presented an opportunity for The Game Bakers to tweak and add more to Furi.

The problem, however, is that updating a game isn’t as simple as pushing a few lines of code and re-exporting the art at a higher resolution. There are huge logistical challenges.

“Outside of the game design, code and assets for the new [character],” said Leprince, “we needed to update an old game completely on all platforms: update engine, SDKs [software development kits], middleware, all the platform-specific content, test all those builds, pass platforms check and publish it again.”

It’s a lot of i’s to dot and t’s to cross, and came just after shipping its last release, Haven, a game about two space lovers leaving their lives behind to carve out something new. Haven shipped across many platforms simultaneously—PC, Switch, PlayStation 4, PlayStation 5, Xbox One, Xbox Series S, Xbox Series X—and required navigating the publishing requirements across multiple regions, including Europe, both Americas, Japan, and Asia.

The team is only 12 people, and The Game Bakers doesn’t work with a publisher. In many cases, the reason to work with a publisher is so they can help with these many tiny details.

Plus, the numbers didn’t lie. Furi on Xbox was selling “less and less,” and according to Leprince, and were under “a third” of sales on Switch, frequently seen as one of the better places to sell indie games in the larger crapshoot of the marketplace. Compounding the issue was an inability to secure future promotions for Furi on Xbox’s storefront for increased awareness, and Haven “didn’t sell at all” on Xbox, outside of its Game Pass partnership.

You can see how the sales break down explicitly, according to this chart provided by The Game Bakers, first showing how it looks with Game Pass downloads:
1652454974955-haven-units-platforms-with-game-pass.png


And here, not including Game Pass:
1652455049541-haven-units-platforms-wo-game-pass.png


“We talked to the team at Xbox to see if there was a way to get some support, but Furi didn’t align with the Game Pass strategy focused on new titles,” said Leprince. “This is why we took the decision not to bring the DLC to Xbox at launch: the chances the investment was not going to recoup were high.”

Because The Game Bakers self-funds and self-publishes its games, the math has to add up.

For context, one-third of Furi’s budget, according to Leprince, was paid for by a PlayStation Plus partnership with Sony, while one-fourth of Haven’s budget was paid for by a Game Pass deal with Microsoft.
Both meant the games were briefly “free” on both platforms.

“Being self-published is a different exercise than having a publisher for sure. It gives us a lot of independence creatively at least,” said Leprince. “But each game also requires a lot of business development and partnerships. We are not making enough money yet from our games to be able to completely self-fund the next ones. Especially as our games cost between 1.5 to 3M€ [1.58 to 3.16 million USD] to develop. So we are grateful for the opportunities partners like Sony or Xbox give us.”

For comparisons sake, here’s how Furi sold across various platforms, first including downloads through its PlayStation Plus deal:
1652455146480-furi-units-platforms-with-ps.png


And now without the PlayStation Plus numbers:
1652455194180-furi-units-platforms-wo-ps.png


The future of Xbox is tied to the future of Game Pass; it’s the company’s ambitious pitch for the future of how video games will be played by audiences far larger than those who buy an actual Xbox. But Game Pass is only a few years old, and it’s only now that we’re starting to see how its priority at Microsoft can and will have consequences on what games are made.

“Game Pass is such a fantastic platform for players,” said Leprince, “so there are possibly more Xbox players than ever interested in indie games. Unfortunately, without Game Pass, it is also very hard for many indie games to be visible on Xbox.”

Leprice isn’t sure exactly why Furi connected more strongly on PlayStation than Xbox, though she theorized the platform’s “strong connection to Japanese games,” which also influenced the design of Furi, may have played a role. But the game also feels very French.

“We’re not sure!” she said. “We’d like to know though!”

There is one reason for Xbox owners to be hopeful. The unexpected outcry caught the developer’s attention, and if Furi sells enough, a return to Xbox is possible down the line.

“We sincerely hope the DLC will be very successful,” said Leprince, “so that we can bring it to Xbox in the near future.”
 
I got Furi on PS and actually never clicked with it at all. Maybe I should try it again. Seemed like a fairly bare-bones boss rush game to me. If they're such a small team they can't get some DLC together, then that's fine. Shit happens.

I would have never guessed that the same developers made Haven. I beat Haven on Gamepass and was surprised how much I enjoyed it. It's a tough game to really recommend to people since it's very light on gameplay, and the story is kind of a mix of anime horniness and teen romance, but I actually had a great time going through it. Considering I already beat the game, I don't plan on buying it unless it's on sale but I put it on my wishlist for later on Xbox.

As someone with all 3 systems, I think all 3 stores have different levels of visibility for different games. I'm finding a ton of weird games on the Xbox store I've never even heard of. I find tons of weird shit on the Switch I've never heard of. On PS the only smaller games I've found recently that were compelling and unknown to me was AnnoMutationem. All 3 stores are pretty similar.
 
So in that 2nd graph they're saying that without PS+, Furi sold 2% more on PS?

Doesn't sound like a huge difference, but what do I know. Makes sense that they'd have more success selling DLC to the system that gave the game to everyone with PS+.

Maybe sell some Haven DLC while it was still on Gamepass next time? I don't know. It already left GP.
 

Three

Member
The game is Paid for by playstation plus backing. What am I missing here? What is the connection to Gamepass?
My brain is melting from my lack of understanding the sit u a shun.
He's basically saying the game doesn't sell on xbox and it's gamepass or bust on that platform so Furi isn't getting xbox updated content support anymore because it's not worthwhile. I think Furi was a PS+ game back in 2016 or something and they are just struggling to gain a footing on xbox.
 
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He's basically saying the game doesn't sell on xbox and it's gamepass or bust on that platform so Furi isn't getting xbox updated content support anymore because it's not worthwhile.
But it's comparing one game 'Haven' on one service Playstation plus to a different game 'Furi' on another serivce Gamepass.
Strike that, Reverse it.
 
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BlvckFox

Gold Member
I could be misunderstanding, but does this actually have anything to do with Gamepass?

Could it be as simple as the larger majority of their fan base are spread across the other platforms? I mean forget sales, I would imagine Xbox users only bothered because it was on GP.
 

kingfey

Banned
He's basically saying the game doesn't sell on xbox and it's gamepass or bust on that platform so Furi isn't getting xbox updated content support anymore because it's not worthwhile. I think Furi was a PS+ game back in 2016 or something and they are just struggling to gain a footing on xbox.
That ps+ is what lost them sales.
 
I think it's more a matter of these games not gelling with the typical Xbox gamer, more than anything else. Furi sales (ex. PS+) shows that the mix from Xbox to PS4 isn't that different (5% Vs 7%), but it's very low. If I was the developer and gamepass was not an option, I would probably cut out the least performing SKU if it doesn't make viable sense. But they key underlying reason for the lackluster performance is the "type" of the game rather than the distribution channel.
 

kingfey

Banned
I could be misunderstanding, but does this actually have anything to do with Gamepass?

Could it be as simple as the larger majority of their fan base are spread across the other platforms? I mean forget sales, I would imagine Xbox users only bothered because it was on GP.
Not really.
They did ps+ giveaway, before they put it on gamepass.

The dev basically fucked themselves over.
 

Three

Member
But it's comparing one game 'Haven' on one service Playstation plus to a different game 'Furi' on another serivce Gamepass.
Strike that, Reverse it.
Yeah they had two games. I think it's just trying to give a breakdown of why they have no support on xbox for Furi and suggests trying to sell games on xbox has become harder.

Summary seems to be:

Haven
on gamepass that MS paid 1/4 of the dev cost for.
Didn't really sell on xbox (<2.5% combined? ). Sold 20% on PS4+PS5.

Furi
On PS+ (2016?) that Sony paid 1/3 of dev cost for. Sold 7% on PS4. Xbox one 5%, version sold less and less. Not getting the update on xbox due to low sales/players.

I guess it's just showing unless you're on gamepass it's difficult for them to sell at all on xbox but it seems more the authors opinion on the stats.
 
Not really.
They did ps+ giveaway, before they put it on gamepass.

The dev basically fucked themselves over.
Two different games. Furi was on PS+. Haven was on GP.

Furi sales across both platforms are pretty similar. Haven sales on Xbox were a bit lower, but they don't put a number on the graph.

In both cases, looks like Switch was the best place for sales. And they have the slowest, and worst store of the 3.
 

Three

Member
That ps+ is what lost them sales.
Why would that be though? For Furi On PS they released on PS+ and still had more sales on PS4 than xbox.
Are you saying releasing on PS+ affected xbox sales?

If so for Haven they released on Gamepass and still had 20% sales on PS yet had almost no xbox sales.

Not sure what you're implying here.
 

kingfey

Banned
Furi
On PS+ (2016?) that Sony paid 1/3 of dev cost for. Sold 7% on PS4. Xbox one 5%, version sold less and less. Not getting the update on xbox due to low sales/players.
The release date for ps+.
After that, they announed xbox one release date.


So you can guess the drop level on xbox players.

Haven
on gamepass that MS paid 1/4 of the dev cost for.
Didn't really sell on xbox (<2.5% combined? ). Sold 20% on PS4+PS5.
That one is on xbox players.
 

kingfey

Banned
Why would that be though? For Furi On PS they released on PS+ and still had more sales on PS4 than xbox.
Are you saying releasing on PS+ affected xbox sales?

If so for Haven they released on Gamepass and still had 20% sales on PS yet had almost no xbox sales.

Not sure what you're implying here.
I sent you a new replay.
The game was announced to xbox, after the ps+ release. By that time, most PS users had the game. So if you own xbox and PS, chances are you got the game from ps+.
 

kingfey

Banned
I intend to buy Haven, but probably not for a long while. I literally just beat the game like 2 months ago. Don't see myself replaying it for like ... a few years.
That is the fate of indie games. Unless the game is unique, most of the time, you will see low sales.

This is where gamepass and ps+ helps them. By giving them guarantee money, it can offset low sales. Unlike AAA games, which sells more than 500k copies across all consoles.
 

bender

What time is it?
In both cases, looks like Switch was the best place for sales. And they have the slowest, and worst store of the 3.

I'm not even sure how you are supposed to get noticed as an indie game dev these days. It's great that development is easier than ever and that platform holders make it much easier to be in their ecosystems, but it makes it a chore to go through the new release section or discount section of any platform when you are greeted with a massive wave of shovelware. Great games get elevated with word-of-mouth but I'm sure there are a bunch of decent-to-good titles that just get overlooked. I'm really curious what the payouts are for PS+ and Game Pass as it would seem that would be a great way to recoup or make money for those types of titles.

From what I remember, Furi got pretty good coverage when it released. I've never even heard of Haven.
 

ChorizoPicozo

Gold Member
Phill didn't lie thou. Game Pass increases game sells.... in other platforms. 😝

this specific example is weird. It is well known that a lot of games tend to sell better on Playstation hardware. (This is why there are still some defacto exclusives).

But again. Devs need to realize that IF they are going to gamble/'giveaway' their games on Game Pass or another service like that (PS+/EGS) they better ask for at least full production cost or some deal that guarantees revenue stream with each download/time played.

The worst-case scenario will be that MTXs/live games, Early access/vertical slice demos/unfinished games will become the 'business model' exacerbated by these kind of services......and you know what does that mean?.....exactly:

Decrease in quality.
 

bender

What time is it?
But again. Devs need to realize that IF they are going to gamble/'giveaway' their games on Game Pass or another service like that (PS+/EGS) they better ask for at least full production cost or some deal that guarantees revenue stream with each download/time played.

I wonder what the difference in contract price is for day-and-date versus adding your game months after it launched are? Seems like it would be smarter to launch your games and go through a few sales cycles before adding it to a subscription service.
 

kingfey

Banned
Phill didn't lie thou. Game Pass increases game sells.... in other platforms. 😝

this specific example is weird. It is well known that a lot of games tend to sell better on Playstation hardware. (This is why there are still some defacto exclusives).

But again. Devs need to realize that IF they are going to gamble/'giveaway' their games on Game Pass or another service like that (PS+/EGS) they better ask for at least full production cost or some deal that guarantees revenue stream with each download/time played.

The worst-case scenario will be that MTXs/live games, Early access/vertical slice demos/unfinished games will become the 'business model' exacerbated by these kind of services......and you know what does that mean?.....exactly:

Decrease in quality.
First of all, the game is indie. In indie world, its harder to sell your games, than AA and AAA games.

2nd, platform size helps alot. You have a higher chance of selling your games, on the platform with highest userbase.

Lastly, PS would sell alot, because xbox has gamepass, while PS have to buy the game. With that equation, PS would seem like it sold alot.

At the end of the day, the devs get alot of money. Guaranteed money from MS, and money sales from steam and PS. Its a win for them.
 

ChorizoPicozo

Gold Member
I wonder what the difference in contract price is for day-and-date versus adding your game months after it launched are?
yeah. Phill said it was a case-by-case basis
Seems like it would be smarter to launch your games and go through a few sales cycles before adding them to a subscription service.
Exactly. But with services like game pass people expect new shit all the time.. Just like Netflix = overespending acquiring content.

Game Pass just like Netflix are an insatiable beast.
 

Jigsaah

Gold Member
Well yea, if you're not on gamepass anymore then unless those people went and bought the game when it was leaving, that a huge part of your market that just evaporated.

that being said, there have been times where games were on gamepass, got removed and then came back. Bringing it back with an announcement of the DLC might not have the same affect as the initial release, but I speak from experience that downloading games on Gamepass make me more likely to buy the DLC, not less...long as the game is good.
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
TeJJuVK.png


Where are those big numbers? A 7%? 😂


Untitled.png


for reference, these are the numbers on their biggest selling platform


640 players peak on the highest selling platform and just a 2% difference between PS and XB sales when not accounting for the PS+ free players, so just a 2% difference in sales between the two platforms.

Yikes, talk about a thread backfire.

But I don't blame OP, I blame Vice for the sensational reporting.
 
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bender

What time is it?
yeah. Phill said it was a case-by-case basis

Exactly. But with services like game pass people expect new shit all the time.. Just like Netflix = overespending acquiring content.

Game Pass just like Netflix are an insatiable beast.

I hate to admit it but Game Pass has really altered how I spend money for indies. Just about everything I have interest in trying has showed up on the platform. Even if it isn't day-and-date, I'm happy to wait to see if it will show up. Most recent example would be Death's Door.
 

ChorizoPicozo

Gold Member
First of all, the game is indie. In indie world, its harder to sell your games, than AA and AAA games.
Also they are cheaper to make = you don't need to sell as much as a AAA.

2nd, platform size helps alot. You have a higher chance of selling your games, on the platform with highest userbase.
Sure.

Lastly, PS would sell alot, because xbox has gamepass, while PS have to buy the game. With that equation, PS would seem like it sold alot.
Ok.

At the end of the day, the devs get alot of money. Guaranteed money from MS, and money sales from steam and PS. Its a win for them.
'A lot'? We don't have the numbers. That's why I said, if they are going the bet/'give away' their game on services like those they better get paid at least the production cost or at least find a deal to make money with each download/time played...either way, the potential (bad) consequences are not really that nice.

But of course, you will find success stories as well. So...is early to have a definitive conclusion right now.
 

The game just has major issues. I can't easily recommend it to anyone, because the gameplay is largely just coasting around identical, copy and pasted environments with little additional gameplay. The battle system is actually somewhat interesting, but I would expect 90% of people to be so underwhelmed by it initially that they wouldn't stick with it to find the small areas where it's kind of fun.

The game is basically trying to be a romantic sci-fi story; which is pretty weird. You're a couple stranded on an isolated planet, and you float around and collect shit and hold hands. Then listen to lots of dialogue; half of it being okay, half of being kind of horny and overly cheesy.

Despite all this, I actually enjoyed it for what it was. I'm one of those weirdos that loved Prince of Persia (2008), and the pair of The Prince and Elika, and consider it one of the only romantic video games ever made. I guess it's not too surprising that this team is some ex-Ubisoft people. Maybe some relation or influence there.

I would have felt ripped off getting this at $25. I'll probably pick it up on a deep sale to replay some day. It's basically a visual novel with some gameplay, but it's the lightest, most casual gameplay you've ever seen.
 

kingfey

Banned
Also they are cheaper to make = you don't need to sell as much as a AAA.
This means too many indie, which makes it harder for users to see your games, and sell enough copies.

'A lot'? We don't have the numbers. That's why I said, if they are going the bet/'give away' their game on services like those they better get paid at least the production cost or at least find a deal to make money with each download/time played...either way, the potential (bad) consequences are not really that nice.

But of course, you will find success stories as well. So...is early to have a definitive conclusion right now.
They really dont have bad consequences. One of the main important about Ps+, gamepass, and other services is that it provides safety cushion.

If you are planning to sell your game, then you have to sell alot of copies, to recoup the cost of the production, while also trying to make a profit. Having Sony and MS covering the cost of development, gives the publishers and developers extra relief.
 

ChorizoPicozo

Gold Member
I hate to admit it but Game Pass has really altered how I spend money for indies. Just about everything I have interest in trying has showed up on the platform. Even if it isn't day-and-date, I'm happy to wait to see if it will show up. Most recent example would be Death's Door.
Exactly. And as a consumer I will not blame you at all. In fact I will encourage that behavior; it's just smart. And one of the benefits is the experimentation with new genres.

The potential issue is this condition of 'I will wait, I will not buy; it will come to game pass'.

So yeah, no one can deny the value that Game Pass (and sevices like those offer). I mean, I just got Xcom 2 for free thanks to sugar daddy Tim.
 

bender

What time is it?
Exactly. And as a consumer I will not blame you at all. In fact I will encourage that behavior; it's just smart. And one of the benefits is the experimentation with new genres.

The potential issue is this condition of 'I will wait, I will not buy; it will come to game pass'.

So yeah, no one can deny the value that Game Pass (and sevices like those offer). I mean, I just got Xcom 2 for free thanks to sugar daddy Tim.

Yeah, I should clarify as that it isn't only Indie games. I was super interested in the Alien's L4D game but held off until Game Pass. Same can be said for Deathloop and Ghostwire Tokyo. So I guess that cover AA and AAA as well.
 

kingfey

Banned
Actually I doubt it, it was only available for 1 month then after, Sony advertise it on their store! I remember this because I recommended the game to a friend of mine.

PlayStation makes this kind of themed showcase editorials where they show indie games along AAA games.
PS+ release happened before xbox got the game. With the nature of ps+, alot of people would have claimed that game during that month.

Its like epic is giving a way a game, for it to come to steam 4 months after that.
 

ChorizoPicozo

Gold Member
This means too many indie, which makes it harder for users to see your games, and sell enough copies.
Just like Google Play Store. Consequences?=

Basically 90% of games are 'live Games' full with MTXs, time gates and Ads.

They really dont have bad consequences. One of the main important about Ps+, gamepass, and other services is that it provides safety cushion.
IF they get paid good enough. Just remember the story about the latest oddworld game.

If you are planning to sell your game, then you have to sell alot of copies, to recoup the cost of the production, while also trying to make a profit.
That's the business idea of selling your game. All right.


Having Sony and MS covering the cost of development,
IF they do that. They are not doing that by the way.

gives the publishers and developers extra relief.
Extra relief for how much time?.....Consequences=

live games/MTXs/Early access/Betas/Unfinished games will be exacerbated and become a business model itself.
 

Zeroing

Banned
PS+ release happened before xbox got the game. With the nature of ps+, alot of people would have claimed that game during that month.

Its like epic is giving a way a game, for it to come to steam 4 months after that.
And I remember people talking about it online so even those who didn’t got PS+ would want to play it but didn’t sell well at Xbox

So I dunno…
 

bender

What time is it?

The game just has major issues. I can't easily recommend it to anyone, because the gameplay is largely just coasting around identical, copy and pasted environments with little additional gameplay. The battle system is actually somewhat interesting, but I would expect 90% of people to be so underwhelmed by it initially that they wouldn't stick with it to find the small areas where it's kind of fun.

The game is basically trying to be a romantic sci-fi story; which is pretty weird. You're a couple stranded on an isolated planet, and you float around and collect shit and hold hands. Then listen to lots of dialogue; half of it being okay, half of being kind of horny and overly cheesy.

Despite all this, I actually enjoyed it for what it was. I'm one of those weirdos that loved Prince of Persia (2008), and the pair of The Prince and Elika, and consider it one of the only romantic video games ever made. I guess it's not too surprising that this team is some ex-Ubisoft people. Maybe some relation or influence there.

I would have felt ripped off getting this at $25. I'll probably pick it up on a deep sale to replay some day. It's basically a visual novel with some gameplay, but it's the lightest, most casual gameplay you've ever seen.

That sounds horrible. lol
 
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