Astral Dog
Member
You are new to Souls it seems, you will get used to it
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I don't understand why people aren't calling out the atrocious weapon system in Elden Ring
- Thread starter Bragr
- Start date
daveonezero
Banned
Id disagree. I think its like 1% are using exploits to farm and min max. Most are just enjoying the engaging systems and exploring the main character in Souls games "the world"
OP is like a Player in WoW who leveled a Warrior and is complaining they can't use Priest gear.
Stuff is obscure or obtuse to create a sense of discovery and consistency between the story, writing and gameplay experience. It all connects and takes you into the world that was created.
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Reizo Ryuu
Gold Member
No it doesn't, it scales with str D, dex E, for the physical damage, and it scales with int D for the magic damage.
So it literally scales the worst with dex.
Bragr
Banned
Dont get me started on how the lore is told though, they put no effort into it. I dont need cutscenes, but at least some sort of animation would be nice.
daveonezero
Banned
It is optional. You can read it if you want. It is like a mystery. Slowly uncovering the world.
Bragr
Banned
Well, makes no difference, still sucked up my somber stones.
Reizo Ryuu
Gold Member
You probably applied quality affinity, which is str+dex. If you applied heavy or keen affinity, you would've seen an instant change to scaling.
The quality affinity will start scaling much stronger than standard once you upgrade it enough, if you care about upgrading.
Bragr
Banned
I dont wanna use priest gear. I wanna use another fucking sword.
There is plenty of games that takes discovery too far. Having to find random items or having to replay a game, is taking it too far.
anthraticus
Banned
Idk, but I do hear some of my friends that are Souls fans saying it's too easy.
daveonezero
Banned
It was an analogy. In this game there is a commitment. But as has been explained there are ways to respec and fine tune gear. ITs is all optional. You can use a +0 weapon the whole time.
As for discovery that is a personal preference. "Too Far" for you is near perfect exploration for another. The reward or satifsfaction from these games is figuring things out and experimenting. Not worrying if you are "playing wrong".
This game isn't for you. Let me help you out. Go to the wiki . There is gonna be a list of weapon types. Go find the sword you want (might as well go to "best sword"_ See where they guide locates it on the map. Go find that sword. And then fuck off. Stop having FOMO.
You literally just don't like the gameplay mechanics that make the game great for other people.
You are complaining about accessibility where the actual feature of the game is being "not accessible".
The point of this game is there isn't a "best" sword. Especially in PvE. It is just preferences and the ability to use whatever you want.
They don't have to upgrade equipment. They don't have to use summons. They can do everything at a low level. All the Souls games have been like this.
The complaints are that this game isn't a roller coaster when it is clearly a sandbox or whole theme-park.
Elden Ring is like a dark fantasy simulator. Juts like the other Souls games but a grander scale.
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cireza
Banned
If you don't want to farm (and who wants ? I have other things to do in life as far as I am concerned) then Souls games are not meant for the player to change weapons several times.
Most of the time, you are going to invest all the stones you find in one weapon, and will be out of stones. So this does not work well with wanting to upgrade several weapons and it isn't great in terms of user experience.
And you are expected to upgrade your weapon from the beginning to keep difficulty low enough. So yes, the system clearly sucks. Because when you will finally find a new weapon that suits you, it will be too late most probably.
They still managed to improve things. In the first Demons Souls on PS3, people forgot I suppose, but weapons would degrade and you had to repair them (this actually remained at least in Dark Souls 2, what a shit feature). Even better : you could only hold a set weight of items, and could not pick things anymore. Because your character could definitely hold 3 complete armor sets but not 4. And a lot of things were needlessly super obscure in the following games, like how to upgrade your weapons, when to put an element on them etc...
Elden Ring fixes some of this, but also has its own problems. Horse battles are absolutely ridiculous for example. Running around clock-wise because you character can only strike on the right. Seriously.
Sekiro really felt fresh. No stats to upgrade, not a ton of weapon to manage etc... It was more enjoyable as it got rid of most of this annoying stuff.
All of this is only my opinion of course.
Most of the time, you are going to invest all the stones you find in one weapon, and will be out of stones. So this does not work well with wanting to upgrade several weapons and it isn't great in terms of user experience.
And you are expected to upgrade your weapon from the beginning to keep difficulty low enough. So yes, the system clearly sucks. Because when you will finally find a new weapon that suits you, it will be too late most probably.
They still managed to improve things. In the first Demons Souls on PS3, people forgot I suppose, but weapons would degrade and you had to repair them (this actually remained at least in Dark Souls 2, what a shit feature). Even better : you could only hold a set weight of items, and could not pick things anymore. Because your character could definitely hold 3 complete armor sets but not 4. And a lot of things were needlessly super obscure in the following games, like how to upgrade your weapons, when to put an element on them etc...
Elden Ring fixes some of this, but also has its own problems. Horse battles are absolutely ridiculous for example. Running around clock-wise because you character can only strike on the right. Seriously.
Sekiro really felt fresh. No stats to upgrade, not a ton of weapon to manage etc... It was more enjoyable as it got rid of most of this annoying stuff.
All of this is only my opinion of course.
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R6Rider
Gold Member
You can attack on the left side of the horse too...
cireza
Banned
I wield my weapon dual hand all the time, I don't remember ever being able to do this. But I will try. Anyway, never liked horse gameplay in these games. It is very limited.
R6Rider
Gold Member
Horse gameplay in what games? Elden Ring is the first Soulsborne game with a horse the player can use.
Reizo Ryuu
Gold Member
You can't 2h on the horse, so the left buttons now swing on the left.
Keihart
Member
just pres the Ls instead of the Rs for left moves, every weapon does it...i think
cireza
Banned
BotW for example.
Damageinc103
Member
This is a non issue later in the game in my opinion….when you have the bells you can just max out any weapon you want at will almost
you act like that's a bad thing lol. modern game design is complete dogshit.
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The obtuseness is the point. And it works because Elden Ring is completely and unashamedly uncompromising. It's a deconstruction of the shitty tropes nearly all modern day open-world games fall into. I feel you're misinterpreting.
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SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
By the time you're looking at +25 weapons, 500,000 souls is chump change.
RoboFu
One of the green rats
Look at his title .. “ atrocious “ lol. That’s not a even headed criticism.
Anyway one of my favorite parts of souls games are that you are forced to play your build and not just become this walking god who has and can do everything. That’s so boring and bland.
But also he is wrong .. there is more than enough smithing stones to bring multiple weapons to +10 easily.
Spaceman292
Banned
Imagine sloggish through Nioh 2, which has way more confusing numbers and stats and items and equipment and shit, then slogging all the way through Nioh 1 afterwards, which is basically the same game just a bit worse in every way. Then moving over to Dark Souls which has a completely different combat system so you have to relearn how to fight things anyway.
Gunslinger
Member
I am up to the game where you can buy +4 smithing stone. I have already changed my spec twice from str to dex build and i was able to upgrade once to 14 and another one to 20 and another to 18. Game gives you a lot of mats. Clearly you are not meant to upgrade every single weapon but the game gives you enough mats to upgrade a few incase you end up liking another build more than your original.
You say you are only +8…..you haven’t even gone into a place where mats are not infinite.
You say you are only +8…..you haven’t even gone into a place where mats are not infinite.
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Swift_Star
Banned
You can do research… I don’t understand why you people don’t google it before doing any of this.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
The character you build determine what you get to use.
If you just want to have everything available, go play an fps.
If you could use everything at once, the ideal play would mean a weapon switch at every possible combat distance.
There is sort of a way to play that way if you want; using summoned weapons that cost mana with every swing. Then you could use any weapon you want. There is just a price to pay.
You are not your character. Play your Role.
If you just want to have everything available, go play an fps.
If you could use everything at once, the ideal play would mean a weapon switch at every possible combat distance.
There is sort of a way to play that way if you want; using summoned weapons that cost mana with every swing. Then you could use any weapon you want. There is just a price to pay.
You are not your character. Play your Role.
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Roman Empire
Member
I agree that this might be a little harder to upgrade weapons because it takes more time than your general souls game. I still think Bloodborne did it the best but I remember that patches improved that a lot until you could literally buy the last tier of upgrade materials. Nonetheless, the game is incredible and you should pick a Stat or a set of weapons that work with what you want to build and stick with it.
Arthimura
Member
Welcome to RPGs. One of the cool things about the genre is the incentive to plan your character and play according to the choosen role.
Elden Ring is even friendly enough to let players respec.
I never had to use the internet to finish any Soulsborne game, nor had to check wikis to do decent character builds. Of course, if you want to see every secret the game has to offer, you probably need to check wikis, but for the experience of beating the game, there's enough information in-game.
Elden Ring is even friendly enough to let players respec.
I never had to use the internet to finish any Soulsborne game, nor had to check wikis to do decent character builds. Of course, if you want to see every secret the game has to offer, you probably need to check wikis, but for the experience of beating the game, there's enough information in-game.
This has to be parody. Especially after the tongue bathing OP has given ER in other threads.
. . .if this is serious, then this is literally the gameplay design of FROMSOULS since like the beginning. Respeccing wasn't even a thing until DS2 (and I legit don't remember how or if you could do it in BB or DS3). At least here it is made painfully obvious how you go about respeccing, but it is still limited and you are expected to commit to either a weapon or a build type. Again, details that you would think someone giving such effusive praise to ER, FS and HM would know about.
. . .if this is serious, then this is literally the gameplay design of FROMSOULS since like the beginning. Respeccing wasn't even a thing until DS2 (and I legit don't remember how or if you could do it in BB or DS3). At least here it is made painfully obvious how you go about respeccing, but it is still limited and you are expected to commit to either a weapon or a build type. Again, details that you would think someone giving such effusive praise to ER, FS and HM would know about.
daveonezero
Banned
You could play it by going even stats across the board. and use +0 weapons. Then mid to late game respec and pick the weapon you want or spec to the weapon that requires a high state.
I think that is the beauty of the game not a detriment.
The critique like the OP has probably doesn't even realize you can Use boss runes or found runes to spend.
RafterXL
Member
Welcome to RPGs!
This is such a ridiculous complaint I don't even know where to begin.
First off, you can respec your character to use whatever the hell you want. I've got 12-15 of the respec items, which means I could respec as many times as I'll ever need as there aren't even that many build types in the game. That alone solves any problem with not having the stats to use any particular item.
Second, As you progress through the game you can buy upgrade stones, ALL of them, 1-10 regular and Somber, which means you can test every weapon in an upgraded state. They also drop like candy from certain mobs. And if you're complaining about the Rune costs you obviously are early in the game. 500k souls is no big deal later on.
Third. Ashes of War will scale the weapon to whatever you want. Like if you're an INT person and want a giant ass sword, just change the weapon to an Ash that scales with INT. One weapon is the equilivant of 50 weapons when you account for skill and damage types.
Basically, between respects, ashes, and bell bearings, you can not only upgrade as many weapons as you like, but you can use any item in the game on your single character and alter them to suit your needs. It's actually an extremely forgiving system compared to many RPGs.
This is such a ridiculous complaint I don't even know where to begin.
First off, you can respec your character to use whatever the hell you want. I've got 12-15 of the respec items, which means I could respec as many times as I'll ever need as there aren't even that many build types in the game. That alone solves any problem with not having the stats to use any particular item.
Second, As you progress through the game you can buy upgrade stones, ALL of them, 1-10 regular and Somber, which means you can test every weapon in an upgraded state. They also drop like candy from certain mobs. And if you're complaining about the Rune costs you obviously are early in the game. 500k souls is no big deal later on.
Third. Ashes of War will scale the weapon to whatever you want. Like if you're an INT person and want a giant ass sword, just change the weapon to an Ash that scales with INT. One weapon is the equilivant of 50 weapons when you account for skill and damage types.
Basically, between respects, ashes, and bell bearings, you can not only upgrade as many weapons as you like, but you can use any item in the game on your single character and alter them to suit your needs. It's actually an extremely forgiving system compared to many RPGs.
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
OP sounds like me, I enjoy RPG-lite games and you're heading into an RPG-heavy game still wanting to just casual your way through its systems. You have to discover, learn, plan and grind your way. Rinse and repeat if you want a different build.
I said to myself finish Cyberpunk before buying Elden Ring because I am hyped for Elden Ring but I'm on the same gameplay reaction as you OP. I know the RPG-heavy elements are not how I like to game. I want the bosses and loot and world but I don't want to plan builds or grind shit all the time.
OP you might find you're in the same boat. Adjust your mindset or find other games. Deus Ex (HR or MD) for example is more RPG-lite.
I said to myself finish Cyberpunk before buying Elden Ring because I am hyped for Elden Ring but I'm on the same gameplay reaction as you OP. I know the RPG-heavy elements are not how I like to game. I want the bosses and loot and world but I don't want to plan builds or grind shit all the time.
OP you might find you're in the same boat. Adjust your mindset or find other games. Deus Ex (HR or MD) for example is more RPG-lite.
EDMIX
Member
I mean.....that is largely the point of lots of souls games, I thought that was kinda moot. You replay areas to find more secrets, lore and loot.
^^^ Yea so I agree with most as this just sounds like their RPG element as trying to upgrade all weapons or something sounds like an end game type of deal, not really something I'd say someone should be seeking to do on a casual first time run or something.
So I generally like to play on the hardest setting, upgrade lots of stuff and beat as much as the game as I can before I move on, but I understand everyone doesn't play this way, so I don't know if I'd recommend OP to do all this, play it casual the first run, upgrade all those weapons run 2 or something.
Pretty much.
Zeroing
Banned
I did it, I’ve found dark souls easier to understand/fighting mechanisms way simpler and easier than on nioh. Basically if you find nioh and mortal sell too hard and frustrating then elden ring is not a game for you!
What I mean Is start with a soul type game where people can easily help you by doing online co-op try other harder souls like game then you’ll figure out if elden ring is for you!
Spaceman292
Banned
If Souls is easier than why bother trying something harder and more confusing? Why not start with the simpler thing?
That's like saying 'If you want to read Harry Potter then you'd better read War and Peace first.'
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three_muffins
Member
Random guy on the internet complains about a game discussion on a gaming forum. Nice.
I have the same problem with Elden Ring. I'm always afraid that i will miss out on weapons and playstyles when i commit to one attribute. - but that is the nature of from games. What can you do? You hate them and love playing them.
Zeroing
Banned
Nioh for example has better checkpoints, bosses always have a checkpoint! Imagine dying to a boss and needing to redo all the level over and over… the game explains better what are the items, stats etc are and so on. Also the move set is much faster than on elden ring with is slower! Although the bosses move faster.
Nioh is a more forgiving game for those who never had played a souls like game.
see my point is all souls like games aren’t perfect! Nioh seems way easier for someone who never tried a souls game! Every weapon will be good, you die to a boss fight you can go back again. Also the game pauses!!! I know amazing feature to pause a game!
Spaceman292
Banned
Nioh is not easier. I'd say Nioh is way harder. Also, yes, it tells you what all the stats mean but it does that with like 30 out of context tutorial boxes right at the start which no one could oossibly remember. The combat is faster and much more complicated in Nioh, which is more difficult.
Also Elden Ring has checkpoints outside boss rooms
Zeroing
Banned
I know elden ring has checkpoints but the other from games did not.
There’s the dojo where you can train , similar to what sekiro have with the undead npc. Also can do the old roll and attack…
I dunno for me nioh is way easier to grasp what a souls like game is.
EDMIX
Member
I think this is one of those each his own situations.
I think Nioh is just as hard as many of the souls games, but I haven't played Elden Ring yet.....for all I know its hard for me lol
Spaceman292
Banned
But Nioh objectively has way more complexity. Three stances, all of which do different things and have different move sets.
Zeroing
Banned
You can kill anything just using mid stance! If or when you feel confident on your skills you can do combos.
I dunno maybe this is just personal views.
