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[SlimySnake]

I swear we’ve had a year of the same old posts and same images Being shared. Hell even more than a year and still when you think of the actual games that have released. There’s no real major difference between the consoles.

its a shame. I think the only games we have seen large discrepancies on are tiny Indy games with small teams that haven’t had the resources to support all platforms or have outsourced development.

I bet they all will be more or less identical with little sways either side and we can all just play the games on whatever platform we want.

can’t wait to see real unreal engine 5 games released on these consoles.

Eh. This stuff is being brought up now because we finally have our first true next gen only comparison after a year of cross gen being shoved down our throats.

And Ive said this before, but a lot of this goes back to the years we spent arguing over specs, and how the PS5 was downplayed over and over again. Now that we have our first true next gen comparison, you are seeing lots of crows being served which is quite normal for online forums.

Case in point: Alex from a recently bumped thread from March 2020. Everyone latched on to this including so called devs on era. Chris Garnell was consistently downplaying the PS5 on era, and had his posts quoted here several times. Now that they have been proven wrong, of course people are going to bring it up.

 

[FrankWza]

First quote is just an assumption on our part, if DF had unfettered access and knew the Coalition's extent in developing the demo, I don't see any reason why it wouldn't have been stated more clearly in their written article or video.

The second paragraph you're quoting, where they're actually talking about the Coalition's involvement read that how most of it is talking about how the Coalition helped the engine as a whole and the PS5 with their optimizations directly or indirectly.

Did the Coalition help more on the Series versions ? Of course.
Did that mean they had to do extra optimizations on Series S ? possible.
Does this all confirm that Epic may have pawned off the Series versions of the demo to Coalition while they focused on the environment they're directly more well-versed in, i-e the PS5 ? Seems like it.

I think you’re just unable to comprehend. It’s all clear. This isn’t a glass half empty/full scenario. We have this video and NX comments, the DF coverage and xbox official site.

And please don't bring up the "but that's because they're bought out by MS" arguments here.

Is this what you’re going to resort to using? Really?

Yes its very much an assumption.

Again. The info is out there and they had access to Epic for the articles and coverage. In this video that NX did, he mentions all the cuts and spends 2 minutes on it. Xbox official site also goes in depth at n the amount of work done.

“they worked with Epic to ensure the assets in the demo were set up to fully leverage virtual texture streaming and nanite wherever possible and tuned internal memory systems, ESPECIALLY on Xbox Series S, to ensure it all fit in the memory.”

“With this FOCUS, the Xbox Series S version shipped with all the same UE5 features enabled as Xbox Series X (albeit with different quality) including but not limited to raytraced reflections and raytraced shadows”

 

[DenchDeckard]

Eh. This stuff is being brought up now because we finally have our first true next gen only comparison after a year of cross gen being shoved down our throats.

And Ive said this before, but a lot of this goes back to the years we spent arguing over specs, and how the PS5 was downplayed over and over again. Now that we have our first true next gen comparison, you are seeing lots of crows being served which is quite normal for online forums.

Case in point: Alex from a recently bumped thread from March 2020. Everyone latched on to this including so called devs on era. Chris Garnell was consistently downplaying the PS5 on era, and had his posts quoted here several times. Now that they have been proven wrong, of course people are going to bring it up.

I get what you’re saying but I wouldn’t take a matrix tech demo as the definitive answer. It’s pretty obvious due to all the randomness on performance on each boot etc. NX even mentions this. Performance and bugs etc are all too variable to really get a clear answer on anything, but I get that it is all we have.

im genuinely in the camp that the clock on the ps5 gpu is doing wonders for the console and while I love the whole overall package of the Xbox including the consoles design, it’s size and near absolute silence all while running cooler I think the slower clock on the gpu is affecting the overall performance of the wider gpu.

overall, both consoles end up extremely close in application and it’s great to see. I would imagine that if the Xbox gpu was clocked at 2000mhz or more we would see that wider gpu really start to stretch it’s legs.

but I’m all for crow being served if it needs to happen, I just hope we all get to the acceptance stage sooner rather than later and some actual games come along that really push these boxes.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Eh. This stuff is being brought up now because we finally have our first true next gen only comparison after a year of cross gen being shoved down our throats.

And Ive said this before, but a lot of this goes back to the years we spent arguing over specs, and how the PS5 was downplayed over and over again. Now that we have our first true next gen comparison, you are seeing lots of crows being served which is quite normal for online forums.

Case in point: Alex from a recently bumped thread from March 2020. Everyone latched on to this including so called devs on era. Chris Garnell was consistently downplaying the PS5 on era, and had his posts quoted here several times. Now that they have been proven wrong, of course people are going to bring it up.

I'm guessing Chris thought the PS5 was the XSS. Can't really see what he means by staggering differences otherwise.

 

[Werewolfgrandma]

You need to read what you said because you said they been working with PS5 for the greater part of 2 years & only 50% of that time with Series consoles

Oh I didn't know lumine in the land of nanite was on Xbox.

 

[onQ123]

Oh I didn't know lumine in the land of nanite was on Xbox.

Not even sure what you mean by this but I hope you don't think Epic's work on a demo mean more than their work on a multi-platform game engine & that they wasn't working on Xbox Series consoles just because you didn't see a Xbox Series X demo.

 

[adamsapple]

I think you’re just unable to comprehend. It’s all clear. This isn’t a glass half empty/full scenario. We have this video and NX comments, the DF coverage and xbox official site.

Comprehend what Frank, you're citing sources saying the same thing about how Epic possibly off loaded the Series version of the demo to The Coalition.

We're surprisingly on the same page here.

Is this what you’re going to resort to using? Really?

Oh I'm not the one who started that rumor, but it's only a matter of time before it gets brought up in DF discussions. We've already had members state their utter disdain for Alex in this topic, you can see where it's going.

Just hoping people are above that pettiness here.

 

[yamaci17]

im just glad im out of these discussions... i've been part of them at some point and now from an outside perspective... its so silly lmao just enjoy your games ppl

 

[FrankWza]

Comprehend what Frank, you're citing sources saying the same thing about how Epic possibly off loaded the Series version of the demo to The Coalition.

If that’s why you believe then you are not comprehending or you’re doing it deliberately.
There’s no possibly. This is an official xbox website. The title is

How The Coalition Worked with Epic to Bring The Matrix Awakens to Life on Xbox Series X|S​

How The Coalition Worked with Epic to Bring The Matrix Awakens to Life on Xbox Series X|S - Xbox Wire

Yesterday, in a surprise announcement at The Game Awards, Epic Games revealed that The Matrix Awakens: An Unreal Engine 5 Experience, a new playable Unreal Engine 5 technical demo, was available for everyone on Xbox Series X and Xbox Series S. Created by members of the original “The Matrix”movie...

news.xbox.com

 

[Roxkis_ii]

im just glad im out of these discussions... i've been part of them at some point and now from an outside perspective... its so silly lmao just enjoy your games ppl

Where's the fun in that? This thread has some interesting back and forth.

 

[adamsapple]

If that’s why you believe then you are not comprehending or you’re doing it deliberately.
There’s no possibly. This is an official xbox website. The title is

How The Coalition Worked with Epic to Bring The Matrix Awakens to Life on Xbox Series X|S​

How The Coalition Worked with Epic to Bring The Matrix Awakens to Life on Xbox Series X|S - Xbox Wire

Yesterday, in a surprise announcement at The Game Awards, Epic Games revealed that The Matrix Awakens: An Unreal Engine 5 Experience, a new playable Unreal Engine 5 technical demo, was available for everyone on Xbox Series X and Xbox Series S. Created by members of the original “The Matrix”movie...

news.xbox.com

Frank I'm still not sure the point you're trying to make, you just keep posting the article, enlarge and bold the headline and leave it at that ..

can you explain what you're trying to prove here anyway ? The fact that Epic had to reach out to The Coalition for memory management and engine improvements, primarily for the Series version, just shows they didn't have the manpower, knowledge of experience (or all 3) in the GDK environment to do all that themselves.

That's exactly the point that's being raised with the whole who-had-which-devkits-when thing.

Or have you completely pivoted the discussion to your usual Series S bashing again now ?

And Ive said this before, but a lot of this goes back to the years we spent arguing over specs, and how the PS5 was downplayed over and over again. Now that we have our first true next gen comparison, you are seeing lots of crows being served which is quite normal for online forums.

First true next gen comparison ? I guess screw all the other next gen comparisons.

UE5 is cross-generation as well mind you, it also supports PS4/XBO and Switch.

 

[Werewolfgrandma]

Not even sure what you mean by this but I hope you don't think Epic's work on a demo mean more than their work on a multi-platform game engine & that they wasn't working on Xbox Series consoles just because you didn't see a Xbox Series X demo.

No this team specifically made both. This team specifically has twice the experience working with ps5. It's not hard to understand.

 

[SlimySnake]

First true next gen comparison ? I guess screw all the other next gen comparisons.

UE5 is cross-generation as well mind you, it also supports PS4/XBO and Switch.

huh? what next gen only games have released on both platforms?

the only ones i can think of are Ratchet, Returnal, Flight sim and Deathloop and they were all exclusives.

What games have used next gen tech like nanite and lumens?

 

[Elog]

Not a good look for DF's technical expert. Jiminy is nearly 100% correct and careful in his assessment while Alex goes all out to discredit him while being nearly 100% wrong.

 

[adamsapple]

huh? what next gen only games have released on both platforms?

the only ones i can think of are Ratchet, Returnal, Flight sim and Deathloop and they were all exclusives.

What games have used next gen tech like nanite and lumens?

No next gen game has used Nanite or Lumens. Including this tech demo, which is not indicative of any game. So it's not really indicative of anything.

The first game that will do so in some form or another is STALKER 2 coming out in April, but that won't have a PS5 version either ever, or for 6 to 12 months depending on however long MS secured its exclusivity.

But we have seen some other games which have next-gen only iterations like The Medium and Metro Exodus enhanced. So this Matrix demo is not the first next-gen only cross-platform experience either.

--


The Medium PS5 released much later than the SX version. Shipped with lower graphical settings but higher native resolution. It did not have RT at launch and it was patched in later, but I don't think anyone (VGTech, NXGamer, DF) did a comparison after RT was added so we don't know what impact on resolution it had.

This is the original DF article:

The Medium on PS5 shows big differences compared to Xbox Series X

The Medium is an interesting game for sure - one we've covered in the past on both Xbox Series consoles and PCs, but I …

www.eurogamer.net

--

For Metro. SX had a consistent resolution advantage while they ran at the same graphical settings. PS5 would run at 80% of the average SX resolution in tested scenarios. Counter to that, the PS5 is better at sticking to 60 FPS with SX suffering some stutters (not unlike Control's stutters which seemed to fix themselves when DF tested later, without requiring a game patch):

Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition: how does PS5 compare to Xbox Series X?

We've already discussed 4A Games' marvellous work on Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition on both PC and Xbox Series consoles,…

www.eurogamer.net

 

[FrankWza]

Frank I'm still not sure the point you're trying to make, you just keep posting the article, enlarge and bold the headline and leave it at that ..

can you explain what you're trying to prove here anyway ? The fact that Epic had to reach out to The Coalition for memory management and engine improvements, primarily for the Series version, just shows they didn't have the manpower, knowledge of experience (or all 3) in the GDK environment to do all that themselves.

That's exactly the point that's being raised with the whole who-had-which-devkits-when thing.

Or have you completely pivoted the discussion to your usual Series S bashing again now ?

We’ve reached the point where this is starting to go into the round and round in circle phase because you are not willing to accept that you’re not comprehending

No next gen game has used Nanite or Lumens. Including this tech demo, which is not indicative of any game. So it's not really indicative of anything.

Hey SlimySnake isnt that what they’re explaining here?

Of course, Nanite is backed up by Lumen, Unreal Engine 5's exceptional real-time global illumination system, but The Matrix Awakens sees Lumen taken to the next level, with extra performance and fidelity in indirect and diffuse lighting delivered by the hardware-accelerated ray tracing hardware in the new consoles, which can also offer up ray-traced reflections and area light shadows. These systems are exceptionally heavy on performance, meaning that Epic leans in heavily on its TSR (temporal super resolution) solution that injects data from prior frames into the one currently being rendered in order to improve quality. A really nice touch in the demo occurs after the chase scene, where the action pauses for a series of sweeping scenes that showcase exactly how Nanite, time of day, temporal super resolution and the mass AI systems actually work.

The Matrix Awakens is an unmissable next-gen showcase

After teasing us with a pre-load earlier in the week, The Matrix Awakens: An Unreal Engine 5 experience has finally unl…

www.eurogamer.net

 

[SlimySnake]

No next gen game has used Nanite or Lumens. Including this tech demo, which is not indicative of any game. So it's not really indicative of anything.

The first game that will do so in some form or another is STALKER 2 coming out in April, but that won't have a PS5 version either ever, or for 6 to 12 months depending on however long MS secured its exclusivity.

But we have seen some other games which have next-gen only iterations like The Medium and Metro Exodus enhanced. So this Matrix demo is not the first next-gen only cross-platform experience either.

So one game, and that too Medium. Metro is still cross gen.

You made it sound like I dismissed many next gen comparisons.

First true next gen comparison ? I guess screw all the other next gen comparisons.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Not a good look for DF's technical expert. Jiminy is nearly 100% correct and careful in his assessment while Alex goes all out to discredit him while being nearly 100% wrong.

He’s always admitted he had biases. Even in his goodbye post. We all do, but for those to pretend they don’t, gtfo.

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/game-graphics-technology-64bit-procedural-high-fidelity-debating.1151802/page-18#post-252810538

 

[Cherrypepsi]

No next gen game has used Nanite or Lumens. Including this tech demo, which is not indicative of any game. So it's not really indicative of anything.

I dont understand this statement.
Of course this demo is using nanite and lumen, they are what the demo is all about - you have been in this thread since page 1 and you're really stating this?

The tech demo is not an indicator because it's not a game? it's literally a tech demo that has been optimised for three different systems for the newest version of the most popular game engine with many games to come in the next years. if thats not indicative, I dont know what is.

 

[adamsapple]

So one game, and that too Medium. Metro is still cross gen.

You made it sound like I dismissed many next gen comparisons.

Gonna post what I edited in later, since it took me a while to edit it in. Saying "First true next gen comparison" is a bit dismissive, no ? Anyway.


--

The Medium PS5 released much later than the SX version. Shipped with lower graphical settings but higher native resolution. It did not have RT at launch and it was patched in later, but I don't think anyone (VGTech, NXGamer, DF) did a comparison after RT was added so we don't know what impact on resolution it had.

This is the original DF article:

The Medium on PS5 shows big differences compared to Xbox Series X

The Medium is an interesting game for sure - one we've covered in the past on both Xbox Series consoles and PCs, but I …

www.eurogamer.net

--

For Metro. SX had a consistent resolution advantage while they ran at the same graphical settings. PS5 would run at 80% of the average SX resolution in tested scenarios. Counter to that, the PS5 is better at sticking to 60 FPS with SX suffering some stutters (not unlike Control's stutters which seemed to fix themselves when DF tested later, without requiring a game patch):

Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition: how does PS5 compare to Xbox Series X?

We've already discussed 4A Games' marvellous work on Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition on both PC and Xbox Series consoles,…

www.eurogamer.net

 

[adamsapple]

We’ve reached the point where this is starting to go into the round and round in circle phase because you are not willing to accept that you’re not comprehending

Of course, Nanite is backed up by Lumen, Unreal Engine 5's exceptional real-time global illumination system, but The Matrix Awakens sees Lumen taken to the next level, with extra performance and fidelity in indirect and diffuse lighting delivered by the hardware-accelerated ray tracing hardware in the new consoles, which can also offer up ray-traced reflections and area light shadows. These systems are exceptionally heavy on performance, meaning that Epic leans in heavily on its TSR (temporal super resolution) solution that injects data from prior frames into the one currently being rendered in order to improve quality. A really nice touch in the demo occurs after the chase scene, where the action pauses for a series of sweeping scenes that showcase exactly how Nanite, time of day, temporal super resolution and the mass AI systems actually work.

The Matrix Awakens is an unmissable next-gen showcase

After teasing us with a pre-load earlier in the week, The Matrix Awakens: An Unreal Engine 5 experience has finally unl…

www.eurogamer.net

Frank my man, you really need to say what you want to say instead of just copy pasting paragraphs from DF or Xbox.comlol, it doesn't help decipher anything.

Clearly my post did not mean that this demo is not using nanite or lumen. I think we all know that.

I meant in the capacity of a retail game, not a demo.

I dont understand this statement.
Of course this demo is using nanite and lumen, they are what the demo is all about - you have been in this thread since page 1 and you're really stating this?

The tech demo is not an indicator because it's not a game? it's literally a tech demo that has been optimised for three different systems for the newest version of the most popular game engine with many games to come in the next years. if thats not indicative, I dont know what is.

For the first line, see above. Regardless, it's not indicative of any retail game, it's not a demo of an actual game, it's a technical demo. The statement is pretty self explanatory. This demo barely struggles to hit a consistent 30 FPS on any console, meanwhile STALKER 2 is aiming for 60 FPS on Series consoles and that's also a UE5 game.

Make of that what you will.

 

[SlimySnake]

Gonna post what I edited in later, since it took me a while to edit it in. Saying "First true next gen comparison" is a bit dismissive, no ? Anyway.

You keep posting the same thing over and over again. Metro is NOT a next gen only game. It is literally on last gen consoles. Just because they added ray tracing doesnt mean its next gen. That would make CoD, Guardians of the Galaxy, Control, Doom next gen as well. it's a cross gen game.

Medium is literally the only game that was released exclusively on next gen consoles. But a game that looks worse than most last gen games cant really be considered truly next gen.

Matrix is the only game that is using nanite and lumens while offering next gen visual fidelity. Everything else looks last gen with RT bolted on top because thats what they are... cross gen games.

 

[FrankWza]

Frank my man, you really need to say what you want to say instead of just copy pasting paragraphs from DF or Xbox.comlol, it doesn't help decipher anything.

Clearly my post did not mean that this demo is not using nanite or lumen. I think we all know that.

I meant in the capacity of a retail game, not a demo.

No next gen game has used Nanite or Lumens. Including this tech demo, which is not indicative of any game. So it's not really indicative of anything.

I think you started celebrating way too early or it’s already almost midnight where you are.

 

[Werewolfgrandma]

I think you started celebrating way too early or it’s already almost midnight where you are.

Game and tech demo not same thing

 

[adamsapple]

I think you started celebrating way too early or it’s already almost midnight where you are.

No, I just left out a few punctuations and felt a little too optimistic that the statement would be understood without me needing to break down every sentence in greater detail. Clearly that wasn't the case.

My statement about Nanite and Lumen's use was in the context of no retail game being out yet that uses those technologies.

I think and sincerely hope my point is understood now.

You keep posting the same thing over and over again. Metro is NOT a next gen only game. It is literally on last gen consoles. Just because they added ray tracing doesnt mean its next gen. That would make CoD, Guardians of the Galaxy, Control, Doom next gen as well. it's a cross gen game.

Medium is literally the only game that was released exclusively on next gen consoles. But a game that looks worse than most last gen games cant really be considered truly next gen.

Matrix is the only game that is using nanite and lumens while offering next gen visual fidelity. Everything else looks last gen with RT bolted on top because thats what they are... cross gen games.

Metro's entire rendering pipeline was altered to make it a tailored experience for next gen, it's not the same case as GoTG and CoD where it's the exact same last-gen game just with RT reflections bolted on.

You're being very dismissive of 4A's efforts with that.

Besides, here's what everyone's favorite DF person has to say on this matter:

All told, when viewed side-by-side with the old game, the visual improvement is profound. The realism is on another level, to the point where the lighting elevates the look of the game in a genuinely 'next-gen' way.

Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition - the ray tracing showcase tested on Xbox Series X/S

We've already taken a deep look at Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition on PC and were genuinely impressed with its phenomenal…

www.eurogamer.net

It's really bizarre that we sometimes defer to DF but other times completely ignore what they have to say simply because of who the author of the article may be.

And The Medium is definitely an underwhelming next gen game, but it's the only next-gen exclusive cross platform game we have so it should be considered in this discussion too.

 

[Cherrypepsi]

For the first line, see above. Regardless, it's not indicative of any retail game, it's not a demo of an actual game, it's a technical demo. The statement is pretty self explanatory. This demo barely struggles to hit a consistent 30 FPS on any console, meanwhile STALKER 2 is aiming for 60 FPS on Series consoles and that's also a UE5 game.

What you say makes no sense.

It's a tech demo of an engine that will be used in many retail games. It's the most impressive thing we have seen on new consoles so far.

If it "barely struggles to hit 30fps" wouldn't that be a good thing?
Any upcoming game in that engine that has a different framerate target doesn't change anything.

It's the first thing we see from that engine therefore it's an indicator.

 

[SlimySnake]

No, I just left out a few punctuations and felt a little too optimistic that the statement would be understood without me needing to break down every sentence in greater detail. Clearly that wasn't the case.

My statement about Nanite and Lumen's use was in the context of no retail game being out yet that uses those technologies.

I think and sincerely hope my point is understood now.





Metro's entire rendering pipeline was altered to make it a tailored experience for next gen, it's not the same case as GoTG and CoD where it's the exact same last-gen game just with RT reflections bolted on.

You're being very dismissive of 4A's efforts with that.

Besides, here's what everyone's favorite DF person has to say on this matter:

Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition - the ray tracing showcase tested on Xbox Series X/S

We've already taken a deep look at Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition on PC and were genuinely impressed with its phenomenal…

www.eurogamer.net

It's really bizarre that we sometimes defer to DF but other times completely ignore what they have to say simply because of who the author of the article may be.

And The Medium is definitely an underwhelming next gen game, but it's the only next-gen exclusive cross platform game we have so it should be considered in this discussion too.

Everything about the metro next Gen version is last gen other than the lighting. The character models, the World detail, foliage, textures, visual effects, gun models, smoke effects, everything is last gen. You can take one look at matrix and notice the generational difference.

I don’t know why this is so hard.

 

[Loxus]

That demo is also very far from taking advantage of the XSeries SSD and IO and it also does not use features like SSF, VRS and other technologies that could help improve performance.
The point is that you are only patient with the hardware advantages of the PS5 but not the XSeries. Not to mention that in gaming performance there are more factors than the SSD

PS. Happy new year and health to all.

UE5 is a next gen engine, utilizing meaningful next gen features. If VRS and SFS was meaningful, don't you think they would already be a big part of UE5?

 

[adamsapple]

What you say makes no sense.

It's a tech demo of an engine that will be used in many retail games. It's the most impressive thing we have seen on new consoles so far.

If it "barely struggles to hit 30fps" wouldn't that be a good thing?
Any upcoming game in that engine that has a different framerate target doesn't change anything.

It's the first thing we see from that engine therefore it's an indicator.

Ok, I don't know what else to add. Everything you're saying is factually correct.

But it's also correct that the first retail game shipping on UE5 in a few months is targeting 4K and 60 FPS on current gen consoles ... that's also factually correct.

The only, and biggest, difference is that STALKER 2 is a full retail game, not a technical demo.

We're just debating semantics here.

Everything about the metro next Gen version is last gen other than the lighting. The character models, the World detail, foliage, textures, visual effects, gun models, smoke effects, everything is last gen. You can take one look at matrix and notice the generational difference.

I don’t know why this is so hard.

It's got full RT GI, RT reflections, RT shadows, 4K textures, better optimized shaders etc.

The base game may have been last-gen but they pretty much recreated the renderer to take advantage of the next gen feature set.

It's a lot more refined than comparing it with GoTG and Call of Duty.

 

[Mr Moose]

I get what you’re saying but I wouldn’t take a matrix tech demo as the definitive answer. It’s pretty obvious due to all the randomness on performance on each boot etc. NX even mentions this. Performance and bugs etc are all too variable to really get a clear answer on anything, but I get that it is all we have.

im genuinely in the camp that the clock on the ps5 gpu is doing wonders for the console and while I love the whole overall package of the Xbox including the consoles design, it’s size and near absolute silence all while running cooler I think the slower clock on the gpu is affecting the overall performance of the wider gpu.

overall, both consoles end up extremely close in application and it’s great to see. I would imagine that if the Xbox gpu was clocked at 2000mhz or more we would see that wider gpu really start to stretch it’s legs.

but I’m all for crow being served if it needs to happen, I just hope we all get to the acceptance stage sooner rather than later and some actual games come along that really push these boxes.

Is it running cooler?

 

[DeepEnigma]

Everything about the metro next Gen version is last gen other than the lighting. The character models, the World detail, foliage, textures, visual effects, gun models, smoke effects, everything is last gen. You can take one look at matrix and notice the generational difference.

I don’t know why this is so hard.

Even the mechanical HDD, slow I/O.

 

[SlimySnake]

It's got full RT GI, RT reflections, RT shadows, 4K textures, better optimized shaders etc.

NONE of those things matter when the asset quality is last gen. Anyone with two eyes can tell the generational difference between the two games below.

Vs

 

[adamsapple]

NONE of those things matter when the asset quality is last gen. Anyone with two eyes can tell the generational difference between the two games below.

Vs

They're both next gen experiences. As in neither of those are possible on last-gen hardware in their current state.

You can just compare Resistance 1 to The Last of Us on the same console to see how varied things can be depending on scale/scope.

It's not an either/or situation fam.

I doubt a good number of games are gonna be able to match the sheer asset quality of the Matrix demo, even on PC, for a good long while.

 

[SlimySnake]

They're both next gen experiences.

You can just compare Resistance 1 to The Last of Us on the same console to see how varied things can be depending on scale/scope.

It's not an either/or situation fam.

 

[adamsapple]

 

[staticshock]

The same Alex that was using Photomode as a benchmark tool? The same alex that waved away the obvious issues with the graphics and presentation on the Halo Infinite first gameplay as "just lighting, bro"? Or the same alex that failed to detect the also obvious differences in RT between Matrix on XB and PS5?

Ah, that Alex. Such a nice source for anything tech related.

NXGamer is some saint? dude is a fraud. I can't believe people take him seriously. In his own comparison, he isn't even matching the same video, nor the same time of today, nor the same driving direction, nor the same velocity or movements. Even if you say we can't account for random stuff. He didn't even attempt to match anything he had control over.

Its BS comparison aimed to push misinformation and looks like it worked!

If someone was actually interested in doing a true comparison, you do a absolute one to one and you also turn off traffic and peds leaving static objects including buildings and parked cars.

 

[adamsapple]

NXGamer is some saint? dude is a fraud. I can't believe people take him seriously. In his own comparison, he isn't even matching the same video, nor the same time of today, nor the same driving direction, nor the same velocity or movements. Even if you say we can't account for random stuff. He didn't even attempt to match anything he had control over.

Its BS comparison aimed to push misinformation. If you actually are trying to do a comparison, you do a absolute one to one and you also turn off traffic and peds leaving static objects including buildings and parked cars.

This is a hilarious observation in light of reading posts where people are accusing DF of bias because Alex drove an SUV in the Xbox part of the video instead of a faster car

#DirectionGate

 

[Mr Moose]

NXGamer is some saint? dude is a fraud. I can't believe people take him seriously. In his own comparison, he isn't even matching the same video, nor the same time of today, nor the same driving direction, nor the same velocity or movements. Even if you say we can't account for random stuff. He didn't even attempt to match anything he had control over.

Its BS comparison aimed to push misinformation. If you actually are trying to do a comparison, you do a absolute one to one and you also turn off traffic and peds leaving static objects including buildings and parked cars.

Just like the DF video, huh? They weren't like for like in that video, either.
It's called averages.

 

[staticshock]

Just like the DF video, huh? They weren't like for like in that video, either.
It's called averages.

Are you being serious right now? You can't have average of something that isnt even remotely identical. For example, the difference of time of day means there's difference in lumen GI contribution and cost. What part of that don't you understand?
Secondly, your movements and the more intense your movements are the greater the Lumen cost.

Like you can't be serious right now...

 

[Mr Moose]

Are you being serious right now? You can't have average of something that isnt identical. For example, the difference of time of day means there's difference in lumen GI contribution and cost. What part of that don't you understand?
Secondly, your movements and the more intense your movements are the greater the Lumen cost.

Like you can't be serious right now...

DF did, theirs was 1fps. Did you complain there, too?

 

[adamsapple]

Just like the DF video, huh? They weren't like for like in that video, either.
It's called averages.

It's not averages, it's SUV-gate.

 

[Mr Moose]

It's not averages, it's SUV-gate.

I could see a potential issue with it, as John said the faster the camera moves, the more the fps takes a hit (but he's talking about free-cam), it could be the same with the cars, too. But I doubt that would be an intentional thing done for the comparison or if it would make any difference between them.

 

[Three Jackdaws]

It's not averages, it's SUV-gate.

 

[MasterCornholio]

If anything people can just accept this as a benchmark for UE5 on current gen platforms. It doesn't necessarily mean that all future UE5 engine games will be like this but it does give us a good idea. If there's one thing for certain is that this demo wasn't built with the previous gen in mind.

 

[Shmunter]

If anything people can just accept this as a benchmark for UE5 on current gen platforms. It doesn't necessarily mean that all future UE5 engine games will be like this but it does give us a good idea. If there's one thing for certain is that this demo wasn't built with the previous gen in mind.

Has anybody compared Fortnite performance? First Ue5 game basically

 

[adamsapple]

Has anybody compared Fortnite performance? First Ue5 game basically

Only comparison is from ElAnalistaDeBits which I guess GAF don't like.

This is his findings (Video under tags).

TL-DR -- PS5/SX are visually identical. SX has a more stable 120hz mode. Series consoles have the fastest loading times in consoles.

Also worth noting that all versions, including phone and Switch, have been upgraded to UE5. Not just the new consoles.

Spoiler

PS4: 1080p at 60FPS
ONE: 900p at 60FPS
PS4 Pro: 1440p at 60FPS
ONEX: 1800p at 60FPS
Switch: 880p at 30FPS
Series S: 1200p at 60FPS / 1080p at 120FPS
PS5: 2160p at 60FPS / 1440p at 120FPS
Series X: 2160p at 60FPS / 1440p at 120FPS

- Fortnite Chapter 3 is the first game to use Unreal Engine 5 in all Platforms.
- Console versions use TAAU to manage resolution on consoles. In PC, in this case, DLSS has been used in quality mode.
- PC is the only ray-traced version thanks to Nvidia's RTX. Applies to global lighting, shadows, and reflections. Activating RT in this game is tremendously demanding.
- On consoles, all versions use SSR for reflections except Switch and Smartphones (cubemaps).
- The version of Smartphones in its highest settings is still below the Nintendo Switch in some aspects such as texturing, drawing distance or geometry.

- Nextgen versions (PC, PS5, Xbox Series) include improvements in lighting, shadows, vegetation, draw distance, volumetric clouds and other post-processing effects.
- Xbox versions suffer a random bug with shadows when some visual adjustments are applied (change island time, activate 120fps mode ...)
- Loading times are faster on Xbox Series S/X compared to other platforms (excluding PC).
- Xbox Series S/X and PS5 have a 120fps mode with a fairly stable framerate. I have been able to see a more stable framerate on Xbox Series X.
- When activating the 120fps, in PS5 and Series X the quality of the shadows, drawing distance and some post-processing effects are slightly decreased. In Series S volumetric shadows are also deactivated and the quality of reflections decreases.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Only comparison is from ElAnalistaDeBits which I guess GAF don't like.

Well he did make several big mistakes with his comparisons which is why he's banned here. The mods did say that when he gets better they will allow him to be used as a source again.

 

[Epic Sax CEO]

NXGamer is some saint? dude is a fraud. I can't believe people take him seriously. In his own comparison, he isn't even matching the same video, nor the same time of today, nor the same driving direction, nor the same velocity or movements. Even if you say we can't account for random stuff. He didn't even attempt to match anything he had control over.

Its BS comparison aimed to push misinformation and looks like it worked!

If someone was actually interested in doing a true comparison, you do a absolute one to one and you also turn off traffic and peds leaving static objects including buildings and parked cars.

I don't believe GAF is plagued by peanut brains this small to see that comparison as a direct comparison, like it was comparing two exact scenes. That wasn't what he was trying to do. He just record two moments to give an example of the typical average performance. In the end the SeX achieves an average lower framerate and this is in line with DF "one extra FPS".
The "mystery" remains.
The console with lower CPU clocks, less raster TF, less RT potential is rendering that thing with the same details (some say it's better), same resolution and same or better performance. No matter what people convince themselves their heads the actual machines don't care.
After one year with both machines in the market society just needs to accept that their believe during the entire year before was not true, that the two machines are actually equal in power and potential, that there's no advantage for one side. The only thing that matters now is which side has the better developers to deliver the best games.

 

[SlimySnake]

Are you being serious right now? You can't have average of something that isnt even remotely identical. For example, the difference of time of day means there's difference in lumen GI contribution and cost. What part of that don't you understand?
Secondly, your movements and the more intense your movements are the greater the Lumen cost.

Like you can't be serious right now...

Time of day is the same in the demo. You can move the sun around but it doesnt move around by itself.

I do agree that he should be flying around the same streets instead of picking and choosing different ones. Alex had the right idea. Pick the same street right when you drop in and go straight down. He just chose the wrong car.

NX gamer has the right idea by flying around since the speed is constant on both consoles. Time of day does not change in the game. So that also is constant. Maybe the GI calculations are different in different streets, but he shouldve just picked one road and driven/flown it up and down multiple times. Kingtrash actually did that but did not calculate the framerate.

 

[Three]

Really man, you are talking about postmen and street cleaners.

You went from
"The description of proxy meshes is incorrect here, it's all the original mesh, just collapsing the mesh into less complex representations while aligning the edges to adjacent representations in the same node depth."

to
"There is no tessellation when using Nanite, they literally swap out the triangles to render with more detailed meshes, not divide existing ones."

You get tessellation wrong and then ignore it and then say later.

"Nanite is an optimisation around selecting the correct data to sample, swapping things out behind the scenes, but there is no "Simpler Version"
with
"The data structure is virtual, therefore it doesn't need to store all of it's data in RAM, but the structure contains "All of the data", even if it is streaming parts of it"

You are conflating everything here showing no understanding the subject matter, Less word salad, more word soup. A less complex or "Simpler version" is not the same as the source mesh.

To virtualise something you, by definition, represent it in a lighter, better, simpler representation of it be that a VM server, Proxy Host, data set, Models. I never said the data was not present, in fact I say the exact opposite in the video and posts, this is my point you are trying to shift the conversation which was and I quote you.
"The description of proxy meshes is incorrect here, it's all the original mesh, just collapsing the mesh into less complex representations while aligning the edges to adjacent representations in the same node depth."

And then you confirm you agree as above by saying in the render stage it represents the source model with a less complex version by tessellating ( which you described but did not understand ) on the fly. I.e a virtualised representation as needed per scene, aka a Proxy model.

Hate to jump in here but you've misunderstood what funking giblet is trying to tell you in terms of definitions. He is right in questioning your use of the word proxy. nanite doesn't fit the definition of a proxy (replacing data with another often simpler representation) nor is it tessellation (adding/interprolating data that isn't there) . Nanite is just sampling data that is there and is the true representation of the object. Not a proxy and not tessellation.

Think of an analogy of looking at a photo of somebody. Replacing that person with a cardboard cutout to represent that person might be considered a proxy. Using ML to upscale a low res image of that person is akin to tessellation. Simply taking a picture of somebody at different resolutions (ie sampling) isn't either a proxy or tessellation. Now apply this to nanite. The visual representation of a virtual mesh is not a proxy it is simply a mesh (all the data) sampled at whatever resolution is required. It is not a proxy (another replacement representation of the data) nor is it tessellation ( interpolation/generation of data that isn't there).

Eh. This stuff is being brought up now because we finally have our first true next gen only comparison after a year of cross gen being shoved down our throats.

And Ive said this before, but a lot of this goes back to the years we spent arguing over specs, and how the PS5 was downplayed over and over again. Now that we have our first true next gen comparison, you are seeing lots of crows being served which is quite normal for online forums.

Case in point: Alex from a recently bumped thread from March 2020. Everyone latched on to this including so called devs on era. Chris Garnell was consistently downplaying the PS5 on era, and had his posts quoted here several times. Now that they have been proven wrong, of course people are going to bring it up.

Looking back at that thread is hilarious especially all the talk of "staggering differences" especially in RT between the XSX and PS5 and how severely Sony apparently dropped the ball. Now though some of the same people defend even having no RT at all and how there is barely noticeable differences in lower settings as "it's the same experience" because papa MS is mostly manufacturing XSS' to sell.