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[Black_Stride]

And F.E.A.R does not have the same level of animations/gore/graphics as TLOU2. The point OP is making is that TLOU2 is the perfect package. Are you just pretending to be a dumbass?

I mentioned God of War 18.
But as I said...in teh framing of what the OP deems "best combat" there would have to be some Ai interactions like them talking to each other, or reacting differently when being shot in the foot or whatever.
So now the deck is stacked against what might be the game with a better blend of overall combat?

P.S Im not pretending to be a dumbass....I am a dumbass.

Again, read carefully.

I read that.
And I said God of War '18 is up there.
But again bringing up something like hit reactions/AI....AI doesnt beg for mercy, or bleed out when shot in the foot.....do you see how now its a stacked deck against God of War'18.....it might do everything else as well or better than the last of us 2 (blending it all) but because of the very specific pro TLOU2 framing....its obviously the worse combat title.

 

[captainraincoat]

Could you imagine a last of us game directed by kojima??…..it would either be the masterpiece of video gaming or the third circle of hell opening up and sucking us into a game so bad they would dig up et from landfill and give it to people with a copy of cyberpunk for their troubles

Also chiming in on gow..that was a well written game and the action was great but it was repetitive as shit

 

[8BiTw0LF]

Just completed it (first time) yesterday on PS5.
Great story and atmosphere, but the combat and overall controls are it's Achilles heel. It's easy to feel that ND focused the controls around 30fps - it's sluggish, slow and has some heavy deadzone, making it hard to move naturally and aim guns without feeling you're triangulating in every instance.
The QTE's also takes you out of the combat and into a button mash situation.

I get why they did it with a story-driven game, but to say it's some of the best combat in gaming is simply just false.

 

[DerivedDataCache]

Max Payne 3
Doom

 

[GymWolf]

I mentioned God of War 18.
But as I said...in teh framing of what the OP deems "best combat" there would have to be some Ai interactions like them talking to each other, or reacting differently when being shot in the foot or whatever.
So now the deck is stacked against what might be the game with a better blend of overall combat?

P.S Im not pretending to be a dumbass....I am a dumbass.

I read that.
And I said God of War '18 is up there.
But again bringing up something like hit reactions/AI....AI doesnt beg for mercy, or bleed out when shot in the foot.....do you see how now its a stacked deck against God of War'18.....it might do everything else as well or better than the last of us 2 (blending it all) but because of the very specific pro TLOU2 framing....its obviously the worse combat title.

No offense but gow is not really on the level of tlou2?

It was my second place gotg and it is the overall better game because story and charas are not trash and combat is more varied, the locations are more awe inspiring etc.

But in terms of gore, gore details, body physics, visible damages on bodies, ragdoll, blood effects, microdetails etc. I think tlou2 is much better tbh.

Gow violence still feel like videogame violence.

 

[STARSBarry]

As much as I disliked the direction The Last of Us 2 went I did appreciate how brutal the combat was.

Alot of effort was put into the impact of an action, and it was animated extremely well. Time and effort where really put into the outcome of combat actions even if the underlying systems where essentially the same as the first game.

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

There's no better TLoU2 than TLoU2. All of a sudden games are no longer art but products that can be judged objectively and compared to one another, without any room for subjectivity, taste or ambivalence. Next week: Games are art, you can't compare X to Y.

 

[Black_Stride]

No offense but gow is not really on the level of tlou2?

It was my second place gotg and it is the overall better game because story and charas are not trash and combat is more varied, the locations are more awe inspiring etc.

But in terms of gore, gore details, body physics, visible damages on bodies, ragdoll, blood effects, microdetails etc. I think tlou2 is much better tbh.

Gow violence still feel like videogame violence.

Your whole post is part of the reason Ive been commenting in this thread.
The thread is heavily stacked for games like TLOu2....of which there is basically one.
So its like saying TLOU2 combat is the best TLOU2 combat there is.

GoW'18 combat as per the OP blends practically everything OP stated makes the combat so good as well or better than TLOU2.
But its not TLOU2 so obviously it has worse combat, because some of the things OP presents in their argument are awfully specific to TLOU2 and games like it.

Whats there really to discuss?
Yes Kratos doesnt pull off sick headshots that have blood oozing out of that trolls skull.....but in that same vein one could argue GoW'18 is better because Kratos literally rips things apart with his bare hands.

Its a stupid argument/discussion to have because there are many genres and ways to accomplish "good combat" so one cant be hands down the best.

 

[GymWolf]

Your whole post is part of the reason Ive been commenting in this thread.
The thread is heavily stacked for games like TLOu2....of which there is basically one.
So its like saying TLOU2 combat is the best TLOU2 combat there is.

GoW'18 combat as per the OP blends practically everything OP stated makes the combat so good as well or better than TLOU2.
But its not TLOU2 so obviously it has worse combat, because some of the things OP presents in their argument are awfully specific to TLOU2 and games like it.

Whats there really to discuss?
Yes Kratos doesnt pull off sick headshots that have blood oozing out of that trolls skull.....but in that same vein one could argue GoW'18 is better because Kratos literally rips things apart with his bare hands.

Its a stupid argument/discussion to have because there are many genres and ways to accomplish "good combat" so one cant be hands down the best.

Nah, i get the points you made in your previous posts, i even gave you a chewed gum reaction, i was just merely talking about the combat in gow vs tlou, not even the mechanics, just the feeling\look, even if they are very different games.

Not even talking about ia or how enemy reacts to what you do.

 

[Flutta]

I agree, sadly the story draged that game through the mud and overshadowed what could’ve been a masterpiece if not for Cuckmann and his agenda.

 

[Vognerful]

Cold take: don't play TLOU 2 as it will ruin other games for you and you will not be able to see something close.

Hot take: Don't play TLOU 2 because revenge is bad and the only why to win in this game is not to play it.

 

[bitbydeath]

I read that.
And I said God of War '18 is up there.
But again bringing up something like hit reactions/AI....AI doesnt beg for mercy, or bleed out when shot in the foot

Those features have impacts on combat though. Having more features changing how you play makes it better overall, not to mention adds a lot more variety.

 

[SteadyEvo]

No, you’re wrong, its a cinematic walking sim. What you’re seeing in that video is a number of QTE’s spliced together

Walking sim only applies to the story bits
OP is talking about combat. You clearly haven’t played the game if you think it’s qtes

 

[Ozriel]

That clip in the OP is spectacular. Insane levels of detail and top notch animation quality.
ND are masters of their craft.

 

[Justin9mm]

No, you’re wrong, its a cinematic walking sim. What you’re seeing in that video is a number of QTE’s spliced together

Wow you can tell you and the 14 people liking your post have never played the game. Move along troll.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

You are talking about animation and graphics.

If you want to talk about gameplay, talk about weapon feel, stick response etc

There are tons of games that do it better.

 

[Thaedolus]

Yeah, if you ignore all the people trying to make political controversy about the game and just play it, the actual gameplay is amazing and additions to the lore are mostly great

 

[Krappadizzle]

The combat gameplay is amazing. As is the music.
The rest of the game is the problem.

 

[worldwithpyramids]

just because it's brutal and visceral doesn't mean the gameplay is mechanically interesting or compelling lol

like when did this distinction blur? yes the animation is top tier, who cares, there's a thousand games that play better.

 

[GymWolf]

this one is great

 

[Majima Everywhere System]

I didn't play it, but I played all Uncharteds and Last Of Us 1.

X Doubt

 

[Azurro]

Naughty Dog are amazing at making games with a high production value. It's just a shame that the studio turned into a sjw shitshow and now their narratives and characters are embarrassing.

 

[Schmick]

Wasn't there a post that showed a clip of BOTW that was slatted here at NeoGAF for being scripted I.e. the player spent X amount of mins/hours to achieve a great set piece in real time. The clips I've seen in this post seem like exactly the same thing.

Don't get me wrong I love TLoU2 but there are plenty of games with satisfying combat.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

The thing about the gameplay on TLOU2 is how many different ways to play it you have. The game allows you to tweak it in so many ways as well...and somehow it's always fun.

 

[Velius]

Lol

 

[Koenigssee]

I still love how Ellie actually cocked the pistol for a lighter trigger pull. Impressive attention to detail.

 

[Markio128]

I don’t think I have ever played a more visceral and intense game and the attention to detail is just insane. TLOU2 has set a bar that I think even ND will struggle to reach again. Not that they need to. I’d like their next IP to be something entirely different. Maybe a RPG?

 

[Thirty7ven]

It really is and as someone who has played it three times now, all the shit you can do, the feedback, the a.I, everything… it’s sublime. Anybody who says otherwise is probably shit at the game, which is weird because it’s not exactly an alien language being spoken here.

The only game with best in class stealth and gunplay at the same time.

 

[Bragr]

It is certainly special. Not sure if it's the best ever, but it's up there.

I always felt like the brutality breaks the story, as it basically paints Ellie as a serial killer psychopath, which really fucks up a lot of her story elements. They try to do a realistic and grounded game but Ellie at the end of the day is very much a classical videogame character with classic videogame logic, and that creates some very strange and conflicting story threads. Especially the end, where she saves Abby and the kid, whereas the real Ellie in the game with her psychopathic tendencies would never do such a thing. It ended up being a conflict between the way the writers wanted Ellie to be against the Ellie that we played as. They made Ellie into a monster but refused to let her become the monster. It didn't make sense.

 

[Woggleman]

It sets the gold standard in having realistic and weighty animations while still being very enjoyable to play.

 

[Bragr]

It really is and as someone who has played it three times now, all the shit you can do, the feedback, the a.I, everything… it’s sublime. Anybody who says otherwise is probably shit at the game, which is weird because it’s not exactly an alien language being spoken here.

The only game with best in class stealth and gunplay at the same time.

Best in class stealth? the action I can see, but stealth? not even close, it's quite rudimentary high grass sneaking. Sneaking around in Metal Gear is 10 times tenser and gives you way more options.

 

[SLB1904]

Facts

 

[Thirty7ven]

Best in class stealth? the action I can see, but stealth? not even close, it's quite rudimentary high grass sneaking. Sneaking around in Metal Gear is 10 times tenser and gives you way more options.

Stealth in MGS isn’t tense at all(I guess it was a bit with the fixed camera, but mostly it’s the alarm sound that triggers the player) and if you think the only thing you can do to play like a ghost in TLOu2 is to sneak around in the grass like Solid Snake, then you don’t know the game.

Don’t @ me with MGS by the way, I know that series like the palm of my hand.

 

[Markio128]

Best in class stealth? the action I can see, but stealth? not even close, it's quite rudimentary high grass sneaking. Sneaking around in Metal Gear is 10 times tenser and gives you way more options.

TLOU 2 stealth is more simple than in MGS, but no less tense. When you’re low on ammo and have to make your way through an area full of the infected, it can get pretty intense.

 

[DForce]

I read that.
And I said God of War '18 is up there.
But again bringing up something like hit reactions/AI....AI doesnt beg for mercy, or bleed out when shot in the foot.....do you see how now its a stacked deck against God of War'18.....it might do everything else as well or better than the last of us 2 (blending it all) but because of the very specific pro TLOU2 framing....its obviously the worse combat title.

You said it needs to have similar gameplay as The Last of Us and it doesn't.

Breath of the Wild and Red Dead Redemption 2 gets praised for their detailed open world and there is very little backlash that comes from it.

Today, people still complain about characters not reacting to foilage within the world or AI being too far too dumb for their liking.

Dead or Alive 2 was known for its 3D fighting environments.
Virtua Fighter was known for being a 3D fighting game with deep mechanics.
Metal Gear Solid was known for its stealth mechanics and AI.
Gran Turismo was known for being a racing simulator.

These are a few examples.


There's nothing wrong with giving praise for the level of detail that went into The Last of Us Part II.

 

[Werewolf Jones]

Almost like updating ND's archaic design by making the combat less stiff and adding a dodge mechanic so they can catch up with games in the 21st century does wonders.

It might age in a few years but for now it's pretty fucking good.

 

[p_xavier]

The title is a white male cis-heteronormative patriarchy, straight up is not appropriate, especially for The Last Of US 2.

 

[Kokoloko85]

Its pretty amazing.

Well for the list you presented, no1 can really put it all together like Naughty Dog.
Facial animations, attention to detail, voice acting, Action scenes, story telling etc. Only Rockstar comes close.

Its why Naughty Dog is amongst or thee best studio atm.People can hate on them all they want, complain about “pacing issues” (acting like they are screen writers all a sudden ) or say “walking sim” but I bet there favourite studios can’t produce what Naughty dog does.

Pure combat though, Id say God of War PS4 and Sekiro are 2 that I like more when it comes to pure combat

 

[Lunarorbit]

I'm tempted to start this again on my ps5 but since news of factions is so sparse I don't know if I should wait for a next gen upgrade.

How is it on ps5?

 

[Kilau]

Not sure what attracts people to these hyper violent games. It’s one thing to kill fantasy monsters in a brutal way but the detail in slashing a woman’s face open in this game is just gross.

 

[post-S]

Other than animation, MGSV’s combat is better than TLOU2 in every single way.

 

[GermanZepp]

Tlou2 combat is their own thing. Imo, most of it boils down to the presentation and details that while impressive, don't change the core of your actions. Mechanically I prefer faster games that feels tighter.

 

[Life]

But it looks so standard...how is it unmatched in any way? Run shoot, run cover, run stab, run throw...Yes the animations are well done and the voice acting adds some depth of realism - but it's just a standard combat system done well.

 

[8BiTw0LF]

just because it's brutal and visceral doesn't mean the gameplay is mechanically interesting or compelling lol

like when did this distinction blur? yes the animation is top tier, who cares, there's a thousand games that play better.

I'll tell you when.. When games became interactive movies.

 

[retsof624]

The game play in that game is top 3 all time for me. Shit it may even be number one. It’s just so damn smooth and polished. I’ve beaten it 3 times this year. I can’t get enough of this game.

 

[Bragr]

TLOU 2 stealth is more simple than in MGS, but no less tense. When you’re low on ammo and have to make your way through an area full of the infected, it can get pretty intense.

It was tenser in the first game because it had more realistic human movement. In the second, you can dodge out of almost anything.

 

[DeepSpace5D]

I'm tempted to start this again on my ps5 but since news of factions is so sparse I don't know if I should wait for a next gen upgrade.

How is it on ps5?

It feels great to play on PS5 with the increase to 60 fps.

 

[Bragr]

Stealth in MGS isn’t tense at all(I guess it was a bit with the fixed camera, but mostly it’s the alarm sound that triggers the player) and if you think the only thing you can do to play like a ghost in TLOu2 is to sneak around in the grass like Solid Snake, then you don’t know the game.

Don’t @ me with MGS by the way, I know that series like the palm of my hand.

Most of the stealth in TLOU is in high grass, which to be honest, is outdated, sure, there are some secret pathways and sneaking around, but nothing I haven't seen before. What exactly is this thing that I don't about in TLOU 2 that makes the stealth great?

 

[Sybrix]

30 seconds is all i need to make my case.

Fuck, i haven't played this game yet.

That gameplay was amazing.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Most of the stealth in TLOU is in high grass, which to be honest, is outdated, sure, there are some secret pathways and sneaking around, but nothing I haven't seen before. What exactly is this thing that I don't about in TLOU 2 that makes the stealth great?

Stealth isn’t strictly about not killing or hiding. I can kill everyone in a room without being seen or heard, and do it in different ways.

What exactly can you do in MGS? Hide in a box?

Play on grounded.