• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

PS5: VRR Update Is Reportedly Coming In December

Status
Not open for further replies.

ToTTenTranz

Banned
What are you talking about here? Every other division at Sony? That's not true at all.

He probably doesn't have the slightest idea.
Sony Pictures just had its forecasts increased, Sony Music is hitting record revenues, Imaging grew a lot in 2019 and 2020 and the new EP&S segment is pretty healthy as well.
The only segment that effectively lost revenue within the last decade was the smartphone division, as they're one of the last companies resisting in the Android smartphone market where pretty much only Samsung and chinese makers manage to make a profit.
 

kyliethicc

Member
The PS5 is an HDMI 2.1 compliant piece of hardware. Regardless what type of display anyone games on, this is a feature that should have been on PS5 at launch. It’s beyond ridiculous.
Its useless for console gaming. I have no idea why a console gamer would want variable frame rates. Its not like PC gaming. There are no settings sliders. Console gaming is simpler. Devs should just deliver stable framerates. 30/40/60/120 Hz for HDMI 2.1 TVs.
 

ToTTenTranz

Banned
Its useless for console gaming. I have no idea why a console gamer would want variable frame rates. Its not like PC gaming. There are no settings sliders. Console gaming is simpler. Devs should just deliver stable framerates. 30/40/60/120 Hz for HDMI 2.1 TVs.

Because VRR is free performance?
A "solid 30FPS" game is a game whose minimum framerate will be 30FPS, meaning most of the time it can provide more than 30FPS. Same thing with a "solid 60FPS" game.
 

GymWolf

Member
Its useless for console gaming. I have no idea why a console gamer would want variable frame rates. Its not like PC gaming. There are no settings sliders. Console gaming is simpler. Devs should just deliver stable framerates. 30/40/60/120 Hz for HDMI 2.1 TVs.
That's exactly why you need it, almost no game on console has locked framerate.

Most performance mode are not really locked, the fact that maybe you don't even notice small slowdowns doesn't mean that no one notice them or that are not there.

Console players have played for ages with unstable framerates so you are used to it, but for people who play both on oc and console it is not the same, so something that smooth the process is well accepted.
 
Last edited:

MrTentakel

Member
Its useless for console gaming. I have no idea why a console gamer would want variable frame rates. Its not like PC gaming. There are no settings sliders. Console gaming is simpler. Devs should just deliver stable framerates. 30/40/60/120 Hz for HDMI 2.1 TVs.
Just deliver stable framerates :)

DF videos suggest there may be 1 or 2 games dipping occasionally below the target framerate of 60 fps. VRR prevents screen tearing and is a very nice thing to have.
It`s a promised feature since November 2020 and there is no reason to not expect a feature complete console at release. A year has passed and still nothing- this is not OK!
 

ToTTenTranz

Banned
You are aware that with most VRR displays, VRR can't work below 40 Hz right?
They don't need lower than 40Hz because the GPU can issue low framerate compensation. A 31 FPS / 32ms frame is presented as two 62 FPS / 16ms frames, a 35 FPS / 28ms frame is presented as two 70 FPS / 14ms frame, and so on.
Ratchet & Clank's 40 FPS mode is already doing LFC through the 120Hz output mode, by sending 3 equal frames at 120Hz.



And if you really care about playing at 75 Hz instead of 60, get a PC.
I do own a PC and a Freesync monitor. Why can't we have free performance on a console again?
 
Last edited:

kyliethicc

Member
That's exactly why you need it, almost no game on console has locked framerate.
Nope.

VRR prevents screen tearing
So does V sync.

Why can't we have free performance on a console again?
Because console games don't have settings & sliders. We can't adjust the game's features to pick a frame rate at a resolution. That's PC gaming.

Console gaming is good enough with a few modes. Like Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart has a 4K 30 Hz RT mode, a 60 Hz RT mode, and a 60 Hz mode. And the 30 Hz mode can run at 40 Hz. No VRR needed, all modes have solid framerates. Plenty of user choice. Good enough.
 
Last edited:

GymWolf

Member
Nope what? Do you think ratchet was rock solid 60 all the time? Returnal? Deathloop?

I'm happy for you since you can't really notice when a framerate is locked or not.
 
Last edited:

ToTTenTranz

Banned
Because console games don't have settings & sliders. We can't adjust the game's features to pick a frame rate at a resolution. That's PC gaming.
(...)
Like Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart has a 4K 30 Hz RT mode, a 60 Hz RT mode, and a 60 Hz mode.

Sure looks like choosing resolution or performance falls within what we'd call a setting.


No VRR needed, all modes have solid framerates. Plenty of user choice. Good enough.
VRR would be detected during console setup and increased framerates would simply be provided to those with a capable TV, regardless of the IQ/framerate setting that was chosen. Just like I don't need to enable Freesync in every game on my PC, it works at the graphics driver <-> monitor level.

What's so wrong in providing better performance to the people who own a VRR capable TV? This is such a strange hill to die on.
 

Topher

Gold Member
VRR would be detected during console setup and increased framerates would simply be provided to those with a capable TV, regardless of the IQ/framerate setting that was chosen. Just like I don't need to enable Freesync in every game on my PC, it works at the graphics driver <-> monitor level.

My understanding is that VRR is not going to increase frame rates. VRR is going to prevent tearing as well as smooth out frame rate drops so they are not as noticeable. Your GPU isn't going to push out any more frames with VRR.

Having said that, I think Sony needs to get VRR done simply because they said they would.
 
Last edited:

Riky

$MSFT
Microsoft Flight Simulator already does this. It automatically unlocks the FPS to go above 30 when used on a VRR capable display but locks at 30 for those that do not have one.

I think Dying Light 2 on Series consoles is going to have the option to unlock above 60fps also.
 

ToTTenTranz

Banned
My understanding is that VRR is not going to increase frame rates. VRR is going to prevent tearing as well as smooth out frame rate drops so they are not as noticeable. Your GPU isn't going to push out any more frames with VRR.

By norm, all Playstation games have V-Sync and don't have any tearing regardless. On 60Hz TVs that means one frame is being sent every 16.67ms (60FPS) or once every 33ms (30FPS).
With VRR on 120Hz TVs, the new frame will be sent as soon as it's ready and without tearing.

A game could be able to run at a 50FPS average. That's not enough to run at locked 60Hz, but on a VRR TV it would show that 50FPS average which is a lot better than the next lock at 30 FPS.
 

Corndog

Banned
Nope.


So does V sync.


Because console games don't have settings & sliders. We can't adjust the game's features to pick a frame rate at a resolution. That's PC gaming.

Console gaming is good enough with a few modes. Like Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart has a 4K 30 Hz RT mode, a 60 Hz RT mode, and a 60 Hz mode. And the 30 Hz mode can ran at 40 Hz. No VRR needed, all modes have solid framerates. Plenty of user choice. Good enough.
All sync does is wait another frame. Huge resource waste.
 

FrankWza

Member
Console gaming is good enough with a few modes.
On PS5 there have barely been any frame rate issues but I’d like it for when it does inevitably become an issue with a 3rd party title. Not every studio is on Insomniacs and Naughty Dogs level. I think they’re waiting so that when they do have it in place, there are no issues down the road or at least as few as possible with their own studios and first party titles. They wouldn’t want a Halo infinite situation where it just launched after a year delay and god knows how much extra funding, and still aren’t able to have VRR on the campaign and are having some issues with multiplayer VRR as well. And xbox has had VRR for a few years now going back to the 1x.
 

HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
Its useless for console gaming. I have no idea why a console gamer would want variable frame rates. Its not like PC gaming. There are no settings sliders. Console gaming is simpler. Devs should just deliver stable framerates. 30/40/60/120 Hz for HDMI 2.1 TVs.

The Office Lol GIF
 

HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
I can't help it if you dont understand VRR and how useful it is, you are on your own

Don't bother fishing for replies from me as I wont debate how useful VRR is to someone who is either ignorant on the subject or just straight trolling

My ignore list has really been growing as of late here
 
Last edited:

ethomaz

Banned
I can't help it if you dont understand VRR and how useful it is, you are on your own

Don't bother fishing for replies from me as I wont debate how useful VRR is to someone who is either ignorant on the subject or just straight trolling

My ignore list has really been growing as of late here
While VRR is importante in some cases and Sony let down not having it support.

IMO VRR should not be needed in console games... it is a fixed hardware where you have the control over de framerate and it should ALWAYS be solid at the target (whatever it is).

Performance / Optimizations for console hardware is a big let down lately.
 
Last edited:

HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
While VRR is importante in some cases and Sony let down not having it support.

IMO VRR should not be needed in console games... it is a fixed hardware where you have the control over de framerate and it should ALWAYS be solid at the target (whatever it is).
To me when trying to push game to 120 fps VRR is the best thing since sliced bread

Sure if they could keep things at a rock solid 120 fps it wouldnt be needed but until then VRR is great
 

kyliethicc

Member
I can't help it if you dont understand VRR and how useful it is, you are on your own

Don't bother fishing for replies from me as I wont debate how useful VRR is to someone who is either ignorant on the subject or just straight trolling

My ignore list has really been growing as of late here

The Office Lol GIF
 

ethomaz

Banned
To me when trying to push game to 120 fps VRR is the best thing since sliced bread

Sure if they could keep things at a rock solid 120 fps it wouldnt be needed but until then VRR is great
That is another thing I believe consoles games doesn't need... 120fps.
Having that amount of fps in detriment of image quality is something I never expected in a new generation hardware.

That is why games barely looks better (and 120fps looks worse) than last generation.

So much things wrong in this generation :(
Instead to set your goals in something achievable... platform holders delivery half-assed features that the hardware can't run.

Trying to imite and catch PC was always a terrible ideia with no pourpose at all.
Consoles should be consoles.
 
Last edited:

rofif

Banned
To me when trying to push game to 120 fps VRR is the best thing since sliced bread

Sure if they could keep things at a rock solid 120 fps it wouldnt be needed but until then VRR is great
what are you talking about.
just play on pc if you want 120fps so badly...

Vrr is indeed kinda pointless on a console. It would help with drops form 30 and 60. Nothing more. I don't imagine having totally unlocked games running at 54 fps. Wtf would developers aim for ? Do they push graphics during development as much as they feel to and then, whatever performance we are left it, will be left to vrr? Will that be 29 or 67 fps ?!
There needs to be some target. Sure, an unlocked mode can be offered but locked 30 or locked 60 must be the base.

Besides - I would still just much much more prefer "always 120hz" output with 30,40 or 60hz locks. Just like ratchet does. vrr breaks gamma too much on modern tvs with local dimming and oleds.
 

Pedro Motta

Member
I can't help it if you dont understand VRR and how useful it is, you are on your own

Don't bother fishing for replies from me as I wont debate how useful VRR is to someone who is either ignorant on the subject or just straight trolling

My ignore list has really been growing as of late here
Can you point out a game where VRR is essential and really noticible, so I can boot up by Series X and check its usefullness? Because every game I tried with VRR on I still notice the drops in performance so I really don't get if its working or not. All I really notice is flashing non stop.
 

assurdum

Banned
I mean, we've seen Sonys performance in almost every other division decline since the early 00s. I'm honestly surprised that they even still bother to compete in the TV market. Their TVs dont bring anything valuable to the table, just over-priced and under performant.

As for correcting the already broken HDMI issues, I think the ship has sailed on anything that is currently already being shipped . We will likely have to wait for hardware revisions. As we can see from the video, you can't just hack your way to something that depends on hardware.
The hell you are talking about. What decline.
 

HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
That is another thing I believe consoles games doesn't need... 120fps.
Having that amount of fps in detriment of image quality is something I never expected in a new generation hardware.

That is why games barely looks better (and 120fps looks worse) than last generation.

So much things wrong in this generation :(
Instead to set your goals in something achievable... platform holders delivery half-assed features that the hardware can't run.

Trying to imite and catch PC was always a terrible ideia with no pourpose at all.
Consoles should be consoles.
what are you talking about.
just play on pc if you want 120fps so badly...

Vrr is indeed kinda pointless on a console. It would help with drops form 30 and 60. Nothing more. I don't imagine having totally unlocked games running at 54 fps. Wtf would developers aim for ? Do they push graphics during development as much as they feel to and then, whatever performance we are left it, will be left to vrr? Will that be 29 or 67 fps ?!
There needs to be some target. Sure, an unlocked mode can be offered but locked 30 or locked 60 must be the base.

Besides - I would still just much much more prefer "always 120hz" output with 30,40 or 60hz locks. Just like ratchet does. vrr breaks gamma too much on modern tvs with local dimming and oleds.
There are plenty of console games running at 120 hz and just because one camp doesn't have it doesn't mean I don't use it on my Series X

I have a decent PC but there are games I prefer to play on console that have 120 hz support

Its silly to say consoles games shouldn't have this feature thus another feature is useless
 

ethomaz

Banned
Just to add.

I'm not against VRR... I think should have added since start and obvious they promissed then they should delivery a flawless VRR support.

But the VRR create a series of issues in game development and that is really a big let down this generation.

There are plenty of console games running at 120 hz and just because one camp doesn't have it doesn't mean I don't use it on my Series X

I have a decent PC but there are games I prefer to play on console that have 120 hz support

Its silly to say consoles games shouldn't have this feature thus another feature is useless
Consoles should have VRR support.
Consoles games should not need VRR support.

Both can be true.
 
Last edited:

HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
Can you point out a game where VRR is essential and really noticible, so I can boot up by Series X and check its usefullness? Because every game I tried with VRR on I still notice the drops in performance so I really don't get if its working or not. All I really notice is flashing non stop.
Just about any game you want to play 120 fps (minus Halo for some odd reason) something sounds wrong if all you are seeing is flashing
 

HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
Just to add.

I'm not against VRR... I think should have added since start and obvious they promissed then they should delivery a flawless VRR support.

But the VRR create a series of issues in game development and that is really a big let down this generation.


Consoles should have VRR support.
Consoles games should not need VRR support.

Both can be true.
That I agree with the games shouldn't need it but also pushing 120 fps is going to be hard to make that rock solid
 

rofif

Banned
There are plenty of console games running at 120 hz and just because one camp doesn't have it doesn't mean I don't use it on my Series X

I have a decent PC but there are games I prefer to play on console that have 120 hz support

Its silly to say consoles games shouldn't have this feature thus another feature is useless
It's not silly. I am not against vrr. I just think it is overrated... or rather, the framepacing issues and overblown.
What's wrong with locking game to 30 or 60? vrr will introduce more problems than it's worth for a fact that you can run at 63 fps instead of locked 60.
For few 120 fps games sure, why not. The closer you are to 120 and the less dramatic fps changes are, the better vrr is.

Again - they will add vrr in a month or six. What is the point of discussion here? It will happen.
I am just getting annoyed by people waiting for it like a holy grail. it will come out and people will either not notice any change or will notice flicker/washed gamma on their oleds.
Those who will want to use it, will have a global setting like on xbox and that's good. I will probably use it myself more often than not really.
 

HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
It's not silly. I am not against vrr. I just think it is overrated... or rather, the framepacing issues and overblown.
What's wrong with locking game to 30 or 60? vrr will introduce more problems than it's worth for a fact that you can run at 63 fps instead of locked 60.
For few 120 fps games sure, why not. The closer you are to 120 and the less dramatic fps changes are, the better vrr is.

Again - they will add vrr in a month or six. What is the point of discussion here? It will happen.
I am just getting annoyed by people waiting for it like a holy grail. it will come out and people will either not notice any change or will notice flicker/washed gamma on their oleds.
Those who will want to use it, will have a global setting like on xbox and that's good. I will probably use it myself more often than not really.
Nothing wrong with locking a game at 30 or 60 but I want 120 fps when possible and some games I don't want to deal with the amount of hackers that live on the PC and yeah I know its getting worse on console as well.

I play most of my games on my PC but when I play some titles I like to avoid the PC players base when I can especially when I play with my son who is on Xbox only.
 

rofif

Banned
Nothing wrong with locking a game at 30 or 60 but I want 120 fps when possible and some games I don't want to deal with the amount of hackers that live on the PC and yeah I know its getting worse on console as well.

I play most of my games on my PC but when I play some titles I like to avoid the PC players base when I can especially when I play with my son who is on Xbox only.
That is a good argument to play on console. I myself have good pc but would prefer sometimes to play console versions.
Cheaters on pc are a huge issue... bf 5 is like a nightmare. And now they are doing pc crossplay?! mouse vs controller? wtf.
120 fps + vrr is good idea for some then especially
 

HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
One other thing as well the only reason I want VRR on the PS5 (my poor X900H will never see it working right) is I have played games side by side on my Series X and PS5 on dual LG 27GP950s and thats where I can really feel VRR working
I can't say it felt worse, I can say I feel the fps drops the same as VRR off. The screen flashes are mostly at the menus of the games I tried, and the game optimizer menu says VRR is on.
What display are you using?
 

Amaranty

Member
VRR is always helpful, doesn't matter if you're playing on console or on PC.

It reduces input lag because vsync isn't engaged and also eliminates sceen tearing (although this isn't a major issue on consoles). It also helps with dropped frames, especially in games where 120 fps option is possible, because it reduces stuttering. I think Digital Foundry preferred the 120 fps mode of Cold War on XSX compared to PS5, even though PS5 had a higher average framerate, but was lacking VRR to smooth out the frame drops.
 

twilo99

Member
VRR is always helpful, doesn't matter if you're playing on console or on PC.

It reduces input lag because vsync isn't engaged and also eliminates sceen tearing (although this isn't a major issue on consoles). It also helps with dropped frames, especially in games where 120 fps option is possible, because it reduces stuttering. I think Digital Foundry preferred the 120 fps mode of Cold War on XSX compared to PS5, even though PS5 had a higher average framerate, but was lacking VRR to smooth out the frame drops.

VRR is the only way for me to enjoy warzone on a 6800xt/5600x ... the FPS fluctuations are too severe otherwise
 

Pedro Motta

Member
One other thing as well the only reason I want VRR on the PS5 (my poor X900H will never see it working right) is I have played games side by side on my Series X and PS5 on dual LG 27GP950s and thats where I can really feel VRR working

What display are you using?
LG C1, just bought it on black friday to replace my "old" C8.
 

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
I think a lot of people in this thread act in a bad faith, because when was the last time game is actually locked to the vsync? Many and I mean majority of games dropping frames, this is where the technology can help with tearing and judder.
 

Chukhopops

Member
I think a lot of people in this thread act in a bad faith, because when was the last time game is actually locked to the vsync? Many and I mean majority of games dropping frames, this is where the technology can help with tearing and judder.
Animated GIF

Just let go, you will never change the mind of the Fixed Refresh Rate Crew. Despite adaptive rates being everywhere those days even on phones and watches.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom