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[8BiTw0LF]

Sony Interactive Entertainment Filed New Patent Went Live 25th November 2021:

"Spoofing CPUID For Backwards Compatibility"

Filed by Mark Cerny.





Credit: @Tippy_Power

Full patent here: https://patents.google.com/patent/EP3405864A1/en

 

[Ellery]

Weird. I feel like we have seen something like this during the buildup to the PS5 where people heavily expected there to be PS1-PS4 BC.

I think the dream is dead

 

[Trimesh]

How the fuck can you possibly get a patent on something like that? The idea of faking IDs to match older hardware is something so basic and long-used that if the patent system wasn't utterly fucked it would be instantly rejected.

 

[Topher]

Full patent here:

https://patents.google.com/patent/EP3405864A1/en

 

[8BiTw0LF]

Full patent here:

https://patents.google.com/patent/EP3405864A1/en

Thanks! Added to post

 

[TheGodfather07]

There will never be ps1,2 and 3 compatibility. Time to accept it.

 

[skit_data]

So it was filed in 2017?

I personally don’t think this is related to PS1-PS3 BC. It’s probably related to PS4 BC on PS5.

 

[reksveks]

How the fuck can you possibly get a patent on something like that? The idea of faking IDs to match older hardware is something so basic and long-used that if the patent system wasn't utterly fucked it would be instantly rejected.

I have a feeling that Sony just patents overzealously even for stuff with prior art. The issue with the system is that the real test of patents comes down to law suits or private and commercial agreement between companies.

 

[lh032]

PS3 BC confirmed.

 

[Fake]

PS1 and PS2 games believe.

 

[8BiTw0LF]

Personally I think it has something to do with Sony's upcoming "gamepass" solution.
Spoofing older CPU's on new CPU sounds like hardware emulation, like FPGA, rather than software emulation.

 

[Topher]

How the fuck can you possibly get a patent on something like that? The idea of faking IDs to match older hardware is something so basic and long-used that if the patent system wasn't utterly fucked it would be instantly rejected.

If it does the same thing but in a different way then why not? You can't patent the wheel, for example, but you can patent a new and improved radial tire. The concept is patented, it is the details of the invention that is important.

 

[Gameplaylover]

I have a feeling that Sony just patents overzealously

Yeah, they even had a patent to block secondhand games shortly before PS4 release:

Sony patents technology to block secondhand games

Sony has submitted an application to patent an "electronic content processing system" that could link game discs to individuals.

www.cnet.com

 

[Trimesh]

I have a feeling that Sony just patents overzealously even for stuff with prior art. The issue with the system is that the real test of patents comes down to law suits or private and commercial agreement between companies.

Yeah, the problem is that trying to get a patent invalidated post facto is complex and expensive - even if it's complete shit that should obviously never have been issued. I sometimes get involved in this stuff and when you see some of the crap the USPTO have issued patents for you end up nearly giving yourself concussion from facepalming so hard.

 

[hemo memo]

There will never be ps1,2 and 3 compatibility. Time to accept it.

Not because it is not possible but because Sony is unwilling to do it.

 

[reksveks]

Yeah, the problem is that trying to get a patent invalidated post facto is complex and expensive - even if it's complete shit that should obviously never have been issued. I sometimes get involved in this stuff and when you see some of the crap the USPTO have issued patents for you end up nearly giving yourself concussion from facepalming so hard.

Yeah for sure, it benefits patent trolls and big companies whom can afford this tactic.

 

[kingfey]

The main question, can it run Infamous 1 and 2. If it does, this will bring joy to me.

 

[SkylineRKR]

Its too bad because I have quite a bit of PS3 games on my account, as well as PS1 games and some PS2. On Xbox its rather cool that you can play Dead Space 2, Sonic Generations and all in improved form. They look stellar.

 

[kingfey]

Its too bad because I have quite a bit of PS3 games on my account, as well as PS1 games and some PS2. On Xbox its rather cool that you can play Dead Space 2, Sonic Generations and all in improved form. They look stellar.

Playstation have more library than xbox, yet they cant seem to utilize that advantage. That is golden goose for them. building emulation machine on the ps5 would have benefited them alot.

 

[Badlucktroll]

Playstation have more library than xbox, yet they cant seem to utilize that advantage. That is golden goose for them. building emulation machine on the ps5 would have benefited them alot.

Couldn't they just code a decent Ps3 emulator in a weekend or something?

 

[M1chl]

Sounds like something you would do for enhancing PS4 compatibility.

 

[kingfey]

Couldn't they just code a decent Ps3 emulator in a weekend or something?

ps3 processor cell was some kind of wizard. That is why the ps4 couldnt emulate the ps3 games.
Pc can do the emulator with internet nerds, so I dont see why Sony cant hire experts to fix the issue.

 

[ReBurn]

Nobody's ever thought of backwards compatibility before! Good job, Cerny!

 

[The_Mike]

Given sonys previous statement about BC, this seems more like cockblocking Microsoft rather than focusing on BC.

 

[cireza]

We have seen other patents about BC for Sony in the last years, it doesn't mean much it seems.

 

[MrTentakel]

ps3 processor cell was some kind of wizard. That is why the ps4 couldnt emulate the ps3 games.
Pc can do the emulator with internet nerds, so I dont see why Sony cant hire experts to fix the issue.

The issue is not to run some games at some quality but to run many games at a quality good enough you can market and sell the product without beeing sued.

 

[sircaw]

If life is not hard enough!

Thanks, Cerny, you just made me feel alot dumber

 

[The Cockatrice]

Stop believing this shit. As a company it's better to just remaster old shit and charge you 70 euros.

 

[Moses85]

GTA 3, VC and SA finally the PS2 Games in high quality on PS5

 

[squarealex]

Funny, when you know PS4 is an APU

 

[TLZ]

I really hope something good comes out of this. And soon.

 

[Genx3]

Given sonys previous statement about BC, this seems more like cockblocking Microsoft rather than focusing on BC.

It would be too late for that.

You can't just patent someone else's already working ideas.

When you apply for a patent you pretty much are swearing that you are the original inventor.

 

[Calverz]

PS3 BC confirmed.

Not happening.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

I wonder if Sony will try to patent [if then] soon lol

ps3 processor cell was some kind of wizard. That is why the ps4 couldnt emulate the ps3 games.
Pc can do the emulator with internet nerds, so I dont see why Sony cant hire experts to fix the issue.

They don't even need to hire experts considering that PS3 emulation was achieved without any documentation lol

 

[The_Mike]

It would be too late for that.

You can't just patent someone else's already working ideas.

When you apply for a patent you pretty much are swearing that you are the original inventor.

I know.

But if Microsoft has to do some extra for their BC program, this might be an obstacle for their plans.

 

[cragarmi]

I really hope something good comes out of this. And soon.

I think the most this will amount to is a Replacement for the PS3 blades currently in use to run PS3 games on PSnow. Emulating there streaming method with more powerful hardware.

 

[REDRZA MWS]

I don’t give a shit about ps3 or ps1, but I’d kill for ps2 BC.

 

[chonga]

Weird. I feel like we have seen something like this during the buildup to the PS5 where people heavily expected there to be PS1-PS4 BC.

I think the dream is dead

I distinctly remember that as well, I think this is a 'new' patent, but whose take away is nothing new.

In other words there are many ways to skin a cat - all uniquely patentable - but the end result is still a skinned cat.

 

[Fake]

They don't even need to hire experts considering that PS3 emulation was achieved without any documentation lol

If they're looking for emulation, sure will be the cheap one. IDK if PS3 emulation is that worth. Transition between PS3 to PS4 was kinda smoothy in comparison with PS2 to PS3.

 

[Sosokrates]

I think sony would be wise to have PS2 + PS3 BC on PS5, Its not that expensive to do and they will probably make money by selling more old games.

 

[Ogbert]

How the fuck can you possibly get a patent on something like that? The idea of faking IDs to match older hardware is something so basic and long-used that if the patent system wasn't utterly fucked it would be instantly rejected.

From my limited exposure to IP and patent law, frequently, an application has nothing to do with actually wanting and/or expecting a successful claim - it’s to help down the line with commercial conversations about what you want to do with your platform.

This is likely just performance art.

 

[KAL2006]

Majority of PS3 games got PS4 Remasters anyways so I don't see that it's a big ommision. They just needed to remaster the last few games in terms of first party, such as Puppeteer, Ratchet Future Collection and etc. It's PS2, PS1 and PSP backwards compatibility that's more important and we all know Sony have working emulators for those systems but they can't be bothered.

 

[ParaSeoul]

Yeah, they even had a patent to block secondhand games shortly before PS4 release:

Sony patents technology to block secondhand games

Sony has submitted an application to patent an "electronic content processing system" that could link game discs to individuals.

www.cnet.com

That was 100% the plan before MS had their reveal and everyone gave them shit

 

[ReBurn]

From my limited exposure to IP and patent law, frequently, an application has nothing to do with actually wanting and/or expecting a successful claim - it’s to help down the line with commercial conversations about what you want to do with your platform.

This is likely just performance art.

Performance art based on what? It's common for companies to patent the technologies they design. There's no reason to believe there's an ulterior motive at work here.

 

[Elbereth]

Something Something…. Mark Cerny?

 

[reksveks]

Performance art based on what? It's common for companies to patent the technologies they design. There's no reason to believe there's an ulterior motive at work here.

Think he is saying that they probably aren't going to use the methodology to enable BC support.

 

[yurinka]

I may be wrong, but I'd say this 2017 patent is for the PS4 BC included in PS5.

I think sony would be wise to have PS2 + PS3 BC on PS5, Its not that expensive to do and they will probably make money by selling more old games.

PS5 (and PS4) has PS2 Classics and PS1/PS2/PS3 games ported, remastered, remade or included in compilations. While other ones are perfectly playable, proper full PS3 emulation at good performance of many important games isn't possible for most games in PS5 or modern PCs due to tech limits so PS3 emulation won't happen, at least for many games.

 

[Ogbert]

Performance art based on what? It's common for companies to patent the technologies they design. There's no reason to believe there's an ulterior motive at work here.

Apologies. Let me be clear. I know absolutely zero nothing this particular patent application, do not understand the technology described and am not suggesting there is an ulterior motive. I shouldn't have said this is 'performance art'.

I was just making a broader point. Applications are often red herrings. They are applied for, knowing they will be rejected, with a view to 'socialising' another idea, that is often included in the body of the application.

 

[SaucyJack]

I have a feeling that Sony just patents overzealously even for stuff with prior art. The issue with the system is that the real test of patents comes down to law suits or private and commercial agreement between companies.

all tech companies do. It’s endemic.

 

[reksveks]

all tech companies do. It’s endemic.

Yeah, maybe it's just that I am not being exposed to it from the others.