SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
You answered OP's question. if not a single game is doing those things then clearly no new game is the new Breath of the wild.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Why does BOTW get so much credit for basic open world elements?
- Thread starter Ghost of Caelid
- Start date
retsof624
Member
These interactions are best part of the game. Almost everything outside of that is meh to me. But I still enjoyed my time with it
Great Hair
Banned
BbMajor7th
Member
It took a lot of things that the franchise was known for and popped them into an open world game built on the backs of games like Skyrim and Dragon's Dogma and nostalgia did the rest. The number one thing the game is credited for is freedom - that you can run straight to the end boss as though that's a unique gameplay twist (it's not, Morrowind has this) and a not completely pointless gimmick which essentially says '95% of our game is optional content, neat right?'. It wasn't neat, the world was too large and empty and the finds became all too familiar.
Every other open world games get' chastised for respawning bandit camps with pointless rewards, with BotW, no one cared because 'you can also use stealth and steal their weapons' (like we all did in WIndwaker, a decade prior). 'What's over that hill' fast became 'over that hill there's a shrine, some Bokoblins, a Korok puzzle and a high-level spear that I'll have to sort through my inventory to make room for'.
Don't get me wrong, I had fun, but there were many flaws in that game that people chose to ignore.
You could do this in Morrowind, though, twenty years ago and they actually managed to combine that breath taking innovation with a cogent narrative that you could follow if you liked. You could also go nab Keening and Sunder and run straight to the end if you felt like it (though why anyone would consider that to be a genuinely good feature I have no idea). They even managed to get some world building in there so that not every NPC opens their dialogue by saying "100 YEARS AGO..." as though literally nothing had happened to anyone worthy of any note in a whole century. Moreover, Bethesda managed to do that on far weaker hardware than the Switch.
Every other open world games get' chastised for respawning bandit camps with pointless rewards, with BotW, no one cared because 'you can also use stealth and steal their weapons' (like we all did in WIndwaker, a decade prior). 'What's over that hill' fast became 'over that hill there's a shrine, some Bokoblins, a Korok puzzle and a high-level spear that I'll have to sort through my inventory to make room for'.
Don't get me wrong, I had fun, but there were many flaws in that game that people chose to ignore.
You could do this in Morrowind, though, twenty years ago and they actually managed to combine that breath taking innovation with a cogent narrative that you could follow if you liked. You could also go nab Keening and Sunder and run straight to the end if you felt like it (though why anyone would consider that to be a genuinely good feature I have no idea). They even managed to get some world building in there so that not every NPC opens their dialogue by saying "100 YEARS AGO..." as though literally nothing had happened to anyone worthy of any note in a whole century. Moreover, Bethesda managed to do that on far weaker hardware than the Switch.
Last edited:
Pagusas
Elden Member
I see it like i see the iphone with apple, everyone had done every thing the iphone had done previously, Apple just put it in a nicer, neater, more elegant package that worked and was fun. Nintendo (tried) to do the same. I don't quiet love the game like the rest of this board seems to (lots of cool concepts, poor execution) but I respect it.
Quezacolt
Member
True freedom to go everywhere and anywhere from the start, if you want you can start and finish the game right away.
No handholding. You go find the secrets, no need to have everything marked on the map as soon as you climb a tower.
Physics and the way you interact with the world, wich hardly any game replicated, and not, it's not just about if you can grab everything or not. even how some elements react is important. Like in a quest, where you have to transport an ice cube in the desert before it melts. you need to go hiding in the shadowy areas to avoid the heat, but if you have an ice sword with you an equip it, it helps keep the ice cube frozen. that's just one very small example.
It's a game that rewards exploring, not with powerful items only, but with experiences. Everyone who played it will speak about their experience with eventide island, and not the items they got from there.
The game asks you to go on a real adventure, not on a checklist filled with content without any substance.
No handholding. You go find the secrets, no need to have everything marked on the map as soon as you climb a tower.
Physics and the way you interact with the world, wich hardly any game replicated, and not, it's not just about if you can grab everything or not. even how some elements react is important. Like in a quest, where you have to transport an ice cube in the desert before it melts. you need to go hiding in the shadowy areas to avoid the heat, but if you have an ice sword with you an equip it, it helps keep the ice cube frozen. that's just one very small example.
It's a game that rewards exploring, not with powerful items only, but with experiences. Everyone who played it will speak about their experience with eventide island, and not the items they got from there.
The game asks you to go on a real adventure, not on a checklist filled with content without any substance.
Jennings
Member
Except they credit Skyrim by name when pointing out a direct influence for BotW.
Because it was Zelda. Full stop. The game engine itself might have inspired some fun adventures for folks, but if you played the game straight, or if it were under a different name, the repetitiveness, the uninspired combat, the rote survival mechanics you can find in any survival game - all this would have gotten perhaps not a shrug, but sure as hell not "game of a generation."
cireza
Member
Let's be honest for a second : mainly because it is a Nintendo game. Many open-worlds games made before it are much more interesting and have more things to do and see.
It was the big new thing for people playing on Nintendo consoles, and it got their attention because they mainly buy Nintendo games.
It was the big new thing for people playing on Nintendo consoles, and it got their attention because they mainly buy Nintendo games.
Heimdall_Xtreme
Jim Ryan Fanclub's #1 Member
Last edited:
Guilty_AI
Member
because you can do stuff like this:
There are loads of open worlds with plenty of freedom, but very few allow for this amount of player creativity and dynamism.
Its one of those games where you can pick two people who played it and had completely different playthroughs.
There are loads of open worlds with plenty of freedom, but very few allow for this amount of player creativity and dynamism.
Its one of those games where you can pick two people who played it and had completely different playthroughs.
Last edited:
Because it is a perfectly designed game.
see this piece about the massive game design failures of RDR2 in comparison (mind you, I love the game)
www.google.fr
see this piece about the massive game design failures of RDR2 in comparison (mind you, I love the game)
Red Dead Redemption 2: one year after the hype
A detailed look at the failures, and success, of Rockstar’s latest hit
www.google.fr
BusierDonkey
Member
Because it took all the open world elements it had and presented them in a fun package.
My issue with BOTW is that I came to it straight off of the back of Witcher 3. And while it is irresponsible to compare these games, I couldn’t help but feel hugely underwhelmed having gone from one to the other. I know I’m in a minority and will be burned at the stake for this opinion, but I just preferred the realistic medieval fantasy of Witcher and BOTW did nothing for me. Anyway that’s my 2 cents that nobody will care about 
Bruno_Arrais85
Member
BOTW has personality.
Fuz
Banned
Never forget that that shill even stole the "Stay hungry, stay foolish" phrase.
JoeBudden
Member
We know why lol. Typical Nintendo nostalgia bias. Same reason why their consoles and games keep selling out despite them constantly violating their fans / customers lol.
If the game didn't have Zelda in the name, it would've been treated differently. Still a really really good title tho.
If the game didn't have Zelda in the name, it would've been treated differently. Still a really really good title tho.
Last edited:
Business
Member
I think you hit the nail in the head.
Sometimes I fired up BOTW on Switch or testing an emulator and I find myself playing for a bit just going around, because it's just fun.
On the other hand the majority of open world games feel like busywork. Not to shit too much on Ghost of Tsushima or that this is a problem of GoT in particular, but after I completed the more scripted intro and found myself with a map with some markers where I had to go find missions to advance the story, I just felt so lazy and bored I basically dropped the game.
Ogbert
Member
Great game.
But it’s still like Assasins Creed - the climbing is on rails.
BoTW just drops you in a pretty version of Hyrule
with a fun physics engine. As I say, much closer to Minecraft than traditional Open World titles.
HofT
Member
It's a fine criticism to have. You can say the game is one big side quest just to fight Ganon. But that is what makes the game a little more unique then the rest. You do what you want. Along with its physics those elements are what encourages the player to explore every inch of the map.
Fbh
Member
Because as with a lot of other things, credit often doesn't go to the very first person/product to do something but rather the ones that manage to take these elements and deliver them in a way that appeals to a lot of people and popularizes them.
BotW has a fun physics system that is fun to play around with and that rewards the player for actually interacting with the world while most open worlds in games just feel like a static background.
BotW has a non linear design that allows the player to truly explore the world and organically tackle things as you come across them as opposed to most open world games which are full of waypoints and icons, and built around a linear set of main missions.
BotW has fun traversal that actually encourages you to look at the world and think about how you can reach places as opposed to most other open worlds which have made traversal really automated.
None of these elements are unique to BotW or had never been seen before, but Nintendo smartly took them and combined them into an enjoyable whole that stood out in a genre that had mostly been dominated by the Ubisoft and GTA formula for a long time. And the popularity of both Nintendo and Zelda ensured the game had a wide reach and a lot of attention.
BotW has a fun physics system that is fun to play around with and that rewards the player for actually interacting with the world while most open worlds in games just feel like a static background.
BotW has a non linear design that allows the player to truly explore the world and organically tackle things as you come across them as opposed to most open world games which are full of waypoints and icons, and built around a linear set of main missions.
BotW has fun traversal that actually encourages you to look at the world and think about how you can reach places as opposed to most other open worlds which have made traversal really automated.
None of these elements are unique to BotW or had never been seen before, but Nintendo smartly took them and combined them into an enjoyable whole that stood out in a genre that had mostly been dominated by the Ubisoft and GTA formula for a long time. And the popularity of both Nintendo and Zelda ensured the game had a wide reach and a lot of attention.
Last edited:
JoeBudden
Member
Last edited:
because you can do stuff like this:
There are loads of open worlds with plenty of freedom, but very few allow for this amount of player creativity and dynamism.
Its one of those games where you can pick two people who played it and had completely different playthroughs.
if ANY of the innovative ways people interacted with the game world were actually present in the beat-to-beat narrative adventures, I wouldn't have returned my game and system after beating BOTW. I think I can count on one hand using the physics/chemistry based systems in BOTW to achieve a narrative goal (reaching the water people village by ice freezing my way up the side of a waterfall). None of it is mandatory so basically you just have all these systems cooked into a game that doesn't use it (or at least not to the degree in that GDC video or any of the videos I've seen from users). It's all superflous.
. . .having said that I'll be getting BOTW2 because I feel that the developers, even amongst all the breathless praise the game has received, has still heard some of the harsh criticisms directed its way.
tmlDan
Member
Feel safe in knowing that I feel the same way, and lots of other people do. The thing that makes it a minority opinion is that BOTW is more accessible to more casual gamers so they take up the majority. It doesn't mean that you're wrong, Witcher 3 is the vastly superior games full stop. Better story, tons of exploration, questing is more interesting, combat is probably worse overall but in BOTW all this dynamic creative combat/ability usage that people flaunt is unnecessary and most people don't use it like those creative youtubers/tiktok clips.My issue with BOTW is that I came to it straight off of the back of Witcher 3. And while it is irresponsible to compare these games, I couldn’t help but feel hugely underwhelmed having gone from one to the other. I know I’m in a minority and will be burned at the stake for this opinion, but I just preferred the realistic medieval fantasy of Witcher and BOTW did nothing for me. Anyway that’s my 2 cents that nobody will care about
lefty1117
Gold Member
they copied the switch off of the sheikah slate, think about that for a moment, they made a whole console just to copy the sheikah slate so that on that special day when you first play the game you think, holy shit that sheikah slate is actually my switch, wtf!!! it's mind blowing. that's why nintendo is the best. and if you think of that in context of the open world discussion, it's not really even open world it's more like parallel dimentions or multiversal when you consider the feedback loop of switch vs slate ... which one came first? which universe is real? I don't know
brian0057
Banned
That sounds like a YOU problem, my dude.
I, for one, I'm thankful that Breath of the Wild didn't devolve into Uncharted-level pablum just because you're not creative enough with the mechanics to do it.
Lethal01
Member
Breath of the wild gets credit because of the "chemistry/physics engine" and the freedom to use it, no other open world has that. Still unbelievable people don't understand that simple fact. Even red dead redemption 2 doesn't have that.
This is the video for you and for the people that still don't understand or want to understand.
The chemistry system is absolutely instrumental.
But I think the general world design is almost as important BoTW just does a phenomenal job of always giving you something interestting to head towards in the distance and then having something less interesting like werid rock formation to distract you a bit and lead you to 5 more interesting things.
Also does a great job of giving you terrain that actually makes you use atleast a bit of thought when you decide how to get from A to B and soem challenge to actually do it.
An inline image version of Matt Walker's translation of CEDEC 2017 talks by Nintendo
An inline image version of Matt Walker's translation of CEDEC 2017 talks by Nintendo - botw-cedec2017.md
gist.github.com
Belthazar
Member
The hardcore Nintendo audience barely plays games from other publishers, so what BOTW did was revolutionary to them. So that basically created a notion of innovation and excellence that was absorbed by other bubbles and the general public. It was a narrative that became truth because people believed it.
It's a very competent game and deserves all credit for using those tried and true elements very well tho.
It's a very competent game and deserves all credit for using those tried and true elements very well tho.
Sakura
Member
The open world in BotW is actually fun to play around in.
The open world in many of these other games is largely superficial. Just compare how you climb a mountain in an Elder Scrolls game versus BotW, for example. BotW just gets everything so right about the open world.
That's not to BotW isn't without its problems in other areas, mind you.
The open world in many of these other games is largely superficial. Just compare how you climb a mountain in an Elder Scrolls game versus BotW, for example. BotW just gets everything so right about the open world.
That's not to BotW isn't without its problems in other areas, mind you.
Yeah, you didn't read my comment. That's fine. Nice pointless, self-fluffing insult though.
Keihart
Member
Easy answer? it's a game that pierced through the mainstream selling in only two consoles as much as games get through multiple releases and remasters.
Nuanced answer, makes openworld exploration with no handholding work at the expence of combat.
You gotta be aware, that not every game becomes a meme in the gaming culture because it invented something, was Doom the first FPS? was Counter Strike the first planting the bomb online FPS? was Dark Souls the first Action RPG Dungeon Crawler with rougelite mechanics? When terms like "Souls like" or "BoTW like" are used, it's no different thatn when people uses other known games to describe a specific mix of mechanics, you pick the most famous game to use those not the one that invented them.
I mean, not long ago people were calling R6S a CS wannabe and The Messenger a metroidvania, those games are nothing alike but people use whatever it comes to mind first, not really aiming for acurancy or merit.
Nuanced answer, makes openworld exploration with no handholding work at the expence of combat.
You gotta be aware, that not every game becomes a meme in the gaming culture because it invented something, was Doom the first FPS? was Counter Strike the first planting the bomb online FPS? was Dark Souls the first Action RPG Dungeon Crawler with rougelite mechanics? When terms like "Souls like" or "BoTW like" are used, it's no different thatn when people uses other known games to describe a specific mix of mechanics, you pick the most famous game to use those not the one that invented them.
I mean, not long ago people were calling R6S a CS wannabe and The Messenger a metroidvania, those games are nothing alike but people use whatever it comes to mind first, not really aiming for acurancy or merit.
BbMajor7th
Member
Same. When I explore the world of The Witcher 3, I find stories and locations that are detailed and unique: the hidden cave that belonged to the cheese wizard, where you have to run a smelly cheese gauntlet and if you succeed earn yourself a silly sword called the Emmentaler. The sword was tat, and lower stats than the one I had, but I never forgot the quest: it was so funny and original. There are dozens of quests and moments like that - you can even sail to the very corner of one map and find a random placement of a bear on warrior's medieval pyre. No explanation - just random.
daveonezero
Banned
It isn't just one thing. BOTW bring together all sorts of things into a very well organized and logical system
From the temperature, to climbing, to exploration, to crafting to combat. They are all working within the same rules of the game.
It also helps the visuals cues and animations are very well done. There are millions of small details that BOTW does that other games are not and have never done.
There are no limits to where the player can go outside of those gameplay systems.
Also the world and level design is something else. The sense of scale and distance between things was very well done.
It is a hard thing to explain and I understand why so many people say "it is just a rip off"
From the temperature, to climbing, to exploration, to crafting to combat. They are all working within the same rules of the game.
It also helps the visuals cues and animations are very well done. There are millions of small details that BOTW does that other games are not and have never done.
There are no limits to where the player can go outside of those gameplay systems.
Also the world and level design is something else. The sense of scale and distance between things was very well done.
It is a hard thing to explain and I understand why so many people say "it is just a rip off"
Last edited:
TheGodfather07
Member
It's a good game but not as good as the reviews make out. Zelda is always overrated in reviews. Even skyward sword reviewed well when alot of fans didn't like it.
Guilty_AI
Member
Thats you mate, i used them enough to have been an integral part of my experience.
In fact, i wouldn't be surprised if you actually used or was affected by them a lot more without realizing.
Last edited:
TheAmazingSpiderMan
Member
It was an overrated game IMHO. Great game but not a master piece, not even close.
Phunkydiabetic
Banned
Can someone please edit this gif...
..to say "Nintendo" instead of Neogaf please. I want to then post it here on its own with no other words.
..to say "Nintendo" instead of Neogaf please. I want to then post it here on its own with no other words.
Spukc
always chasing the next thrill
huge part of apple..
marketing and branding.. but there is a reason why long time apple user laugh at androids app selection
I didn't say you couldn't use them. I said they were largely superfluous. The gif of the player beating the Ganon Lynel is an excellent example of this. None of the content in the game rose to a point where it required you to dig that deep into the games systems to beat any of the content. You can use fire to create updrafts and score a headshot on a goblin; or, you can just go up the side of the tower it's sitting on because it's not the big and there aren't any other enemies around. Superfluous.
gow3isben
Member
I remember people were fapping over the fact that you could climb mountains when the trailers and stuff were coming out I was like WTF lol that is one of the most boring parts about open worlds
Same With Elden Ring. Hate the open world bullshit, love everything else. I guess if you love something well enough everything about that thing is perfect.
Same With Elden Ring. Hate the open world bullshit, love everything else. I guess if you love something well enough everything about that thing is perfect.
