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[Tschumi]

EDIT: it's been the 28th for 12 hours here, steam, gimmie my fucking game

I'm writing this because I'm big on RTSs, have made a lot of posts about them here, the Age of Empires 2: The Conquerors expansion is my #3 game OAT, and I want to have a post that hopefully pre-empts tyros who come into Age 4 review threads bleating about irrelevant things like graphics.

​

*note I am, for those of you who aren't aware, totally nonplussed by Age 3. I think it was a stain on the series.

When I play Age of Empires 4 I'll be looking out for:
- Connections to Age 2 (I want them to skip over a bunch of Age 3's contributions to the gameplay model)
- Patched pathfinding (apparently)
- Historical high mindedness (educational text, videos, optional books; language appropriate unit acknowlegment, campaigns based on historical events rather than THE FOUNTAIN OF YOUTH *groooan*)
- Series-correct Unit vs. Building scale. (Age of Empires had a pretty specific ratio of unit to building size during their 2D days, it gave the architecture a leading role without cluttering up the FOV like in Age 3... I hope they retain it)
- Multiple historical campaigns with voice acting briefings that you can tackle however and whenever you wish (basically Age 2)
- A wide field of view.
- The largest maps the series has yet seen.
- A solid framerate when you've got 8 empires fighting it out on a huge map. (Age 2 used to manage this fine back when Ensemble was scripting it so very well, but Age 2 HD and Age 2 Remastered both chug when the AI load gets high)
- Globetrotting content. (I want me some o' dat Amazon, the Land of the Rising Sun, China a la Emperor ROTMK, and I wouldn't mind going back to pre-Colonial USA.)
- The same general gameplay pacing (I prefer Empire Total War to Shogun 2 because Shogun does everything it can to speed you up, but Empire lets you take your own time. It's the same with RTSs, I prefer to build up when I'm playing SP, if I want a frenetic pace I'll play online.)

When I play Age of Empires 4 I won't be looking for:
- Reasons to praise XBOX studios. It's a PC game, made by Relic, deal with it.
- Ray Tracing
- Resolution pixel counts
- Pores on Faces
- Day 1 Multiplayer Performance
- Unit Counts. 200 population would be gravy.
- Graphical comparisons with third-party rebuilds of Age 2 and Age 3 (Age 4 clearly has an entirely different aesthetic to the former two games, and it's been made by arguably the leading RTS company still running today, it would be dishonest to directly compare the offerings)
- Any reinvented wheels, gameplay wise. (IGN's reviewer whinges about nothing new being brought to the table, but it was the attempt to bring 'new' stuff like railways and crud that undermined age 3. If there's one feature I think might be useful, it would be the Age of Mythology god powers - only they would be non-mystical.. balanced stuff like choosing between buffing your villager work rate or the armour of your soldiers, etc. It's not like any subsequent RTS has hugely improved on the AoE2 formula, just a few quality of life things from SC2 and RoN maybe. I wouldn't mind terrain advantage and concealment in a very subtly way, like in Dawn of War)
*EDIT: I've watched some preview videos (not something I often do) and can see that they have, in a way, implemented something like the new gameplay tweaks I describe above, in great depth.... So yay.

cheese steak jimmy's cheese steak jimmy's cheese steak jimmy's cheese steak jimmy's stone age stone age stone age lumberjack lumberjack lumberjck robin hood robin hood robin hood robin hood this game series was the reason I learnt touch typing​

When I play Age of Empires 4 I'm going to be most worried about:
- Uneven frame rate. (The reason I play the later Age 2 re-releases less than Ensemble's original is because the original runs smooth as butter, for the most part. I think it might have to do with windows compatability but it seems like computers aren't built to handle 8 empires on a giant map into the Imperial Age anymore)
- Small maps (Relic are hit and miss here, I just really want the maps to be big enough to house many empires building and fighting over many hours, like Age 2)
- Bad FOV (I detest a restrictive FOV, it's one of the main reasons I hated Age 3, Battle for Mordor and Kingdoms of Amlaur too)
- Underwhelming Campaign options (if they're too ambitious about the campaigns they do, they might only end up making a handful. I would like 5 or 6)
- ANY MENTION OF A FOUNTAIN OF YOUTH
- Slow patching to fix things like apparently sketchy pathfinding. Though I give Relic the benefit of the doubt in all things.

 

[TrueLegend]

This looks great all around. However, the lack of multithreading is a big problem. Currently downloading the pre-install package.
It looks better than any RTS in my opinion. The visual design suits the RTS gameplay. Also, the Campaign will not be an issue, there will be many more coming. They will build upon it. This will have long legs....how long is the only question.

 

[Monado Blade]

Great thread! And an absolutely great idea to pre-empt graphic naysayers.

Already preloaded in Steam. I'm ready!! Haven't played a good RTS in years so really looking forward to diving into this. I'm also a huge history nerd so I'm really looking forward to the mini documentaries as well.

 

[BigBooper]

Got it preloaded as well. Ready to woolooloo.

 

[Kenpachii]

got it pre-ordered can't wait.

 

[Tschumi]

This is pretty cool, civilizations seem to have pretty subtle bonuses like the Rus being able to earn gold by killing Gaia. And the Holy Roman Empire can raise a Prelate religious toon from the Town Center that buffs Villager gather rate, nice... Wow they can also instantly repair buildings within a certain distance of their town centers at a certain rate...

The maps look pretty big, too, in this video it's 2 Civs on what looks like a Large map... That's reassuring.

Interesting idea to let scouts kill and carry game back to town... This will have an intereseting effect on how we grow into maps...

Jeez there's a new AoE conversion mechanic, in which any mobs left inside a big circle radiating from a convertER gets convertED... That's pretty intesreting, i wonder if there's an alternate method...

This looks great all around. However, the lack of multithreading is a big problem. Currently downloading the pre-install package.
It looks better than any RTS in my opinion. The visual design suits the RTS gameplay. Also, the Campaign will not be an issue, there will be many more coming. They will build upon it. This will have long legs....how long is the only question.

Can you tell me more about Multithreading? I mean I know what it's about, but where have they said it lacks it? Or is it not optimal? As I say one of my worries is lag on maps with a lot happening on them chugging...

Totally with you on appraising the visuals. And, man, the idea that there will be more campaigns coming out like what's happened with Age 2 DE gives me anime shiny eyes:

Great thread! And an absolutely great idea to pre-empt graphic naysayers.

Already preloaded in Steam. I'm ready!! Haven't played a good RTS in years so really looking forward to diving into this. I'm also a huge history nerd so I'm really looking forward to the mini documentaries as well.

heck yes my man, yeah I'm preloaded on Steam too. Haha yeah my idea is to copy/paste a link to this thread for anybody who raises shit about visuals "Bing, oh see you're talking about RT, sorry that's inadmissable"

 

[TrueLegend]

Can you tell me more about Multithreading? I mean I know what it's about, but where have they said it lacks it? Or is it not optimal? As I say one of my worries is lag on maps with a lot happening on them chugging...

DF Report.
I used the word 'lacking'....which is my bad. Its not optimal.....or tbh it's their bad because it pretty much is working like a single-thread game.

 

[SoggyBiscuit]

DF had a good technical piece on AOE 4, but there's some weirdness with frame time spikes and as TrueLegend already mentioned the issue with multithreading.

I can't wait to play it though, not sure anything has really dethroned AOE2 as the GOAT RTS.

 

[Tschumi]

DF Report.
I used the word 'lacking'....which is my bad. Its not optimal.....or tbh it's their bad because it pretty much is working like a single-thread game.

i see i see, yeah i tend to stick away from preview stuff before games drop - i feel kinda dirty for consuming these developer multiplayer videos but it's got me quaking in anticipation. Maybe i'll keep my Random Maps to 2 or 4 empires to start with... I'm discinlined to doubt Relic tho, maybe they've designed the game to be really light... i'd appreciate that

the gameplay's looking pretty delightful

DF had a good technical piece on AOE 4, but there's some weirdness with frame time spikes and as TrueLegend already mentioned the issue with multithreading.

I can't wait to play it though, not sure anything has really dethroned AOE2 as the GOAT RTS.

i love AoE2 so much, i completed the entire aztec campaign in the expansion hollowing out forests with villagers to make tree 'forts' from which to strike opponents

 

[Kuranghi]

Wait, the fucking car is in it? Or is that gif from the old game?!?? Brilliant if true.

 

[Tams]

Here, have some drama:

tyros who come into Age 4 review threads bleating about irrelevant things like graphics.

Sorry, but that is a valid criticism to have. To just dismiss it is silly.

 

[SoggyBiscuit]

Here, have some drama:



Sorry, but that is a valid criticism to have. To just dismiss it is silly.

I actually like the cleaner aesthetic they've gone for this time.

 

[manfestival]

If I can't see ray tracing on the pores while zooming into the character models pixels then this game is absolutely useless. However, all of the praise goes to lord Xbox of the video game clan.

 

[Tschumi]

Wait, the fucking car is in it? Or is that gif from the old game?!?? Brilliant if true.

it was a cheat from the very first game i can't remember what the cheat was, it might be 'all your base are belong to us'... maybe that one gave a uber powerful catapult... there was also something like 'spaceman' that gave you a dude in an astronaut suit with a laser gun

just dismiss it

Fixed.

gameplay > graphics in all estimations. This game could look like Warcraft 2 and I'd still hold judgement until I'd played it.

Nobody's gonna get constructive discussion outta me trying to pedal limpdicked screenshot comparisons. Come at me with thoughts on gameplay, after you've played it as long as I will.

This thread underlines my assertion. But i'm pretty sure gameplay > graphics is a ubiquitous forum default position.

 

[SublimeCorruptor]

AoE 3 for life *rings TC bell, sets rally point to garrison and orders minutemen* and bring back AoEO *equips legendary gear*.
I hope we will see some expansions with historical battles and a co-op mode.

 

[Kenpachii]

it was a cheat from the very first game i can't remember what the cheat was, it might be 'all your base are belong to us'... maybe that one gave a uber powerful catapult... there was also something like 'spaceman' that gave you a dude in an astronaut suit with a laser gun


Fixed.

gameplay > graphics in all estimations. This game could look like Warcraft 2 and I'd still hold judgement until I'd played it.

Nobody's gonna get constructive discussion outta me trying to pedal limpdicked screenshot comparisons. Come at me with thoughts on gameplay, after you've played it as long as I will.

This thread underlines my assertion. But i'm pretty sure gameplay > graphics is a ubiquitous forum default position.

Sorry mate, graphics are important in a game. I am a huge RTS player and frankly if the game doesn't look clean ( it doesn't need to look super high next gen visual obviously ) it will ruin the experience specially in a RTS game where u need to visually locate with your eyes things quick with easy to recognise buildings and units. Even warcraft 2 looks more clean in my view then this blurry fest of a game.

Also the technical aspect of only using 1 core in demanding places instead of more ( or alteast extremely limited on the multicore solution ) will limit the game scope like 200 max units u saw in the beta where on a 4x4 map u already dropped down to 60's while looking like a potato game, its pathethic for a full blown AAA game. Even indie games of a few people can do a better job.

Which results in this game not evolving forwards on the gameplay department. Which results in us only controlling a army of 100 units max. So why are we not controlling 1000's of units that actually fighting a war instead of a battle. because technical limitations made by a zero effort team.

This game is a technical mess and its holding the game back on every solution, immersive visuals, to immersive battles. As the battles will be tiny because the engine is just straight up garbage.

Its basically a reskin of a older age of empire with new bells and wissles tagged on, its the most secure and uninspiring sequel i have ever seen in my life, from visuals to gameplay and after all those years of waiting.

I will still be playing it tho, even while it fails on pretty much all expectations, besides music.

We should move forwards not backwards with a sequal. And with age of empire 2 being a thing it just doesn't feel like its a proper jump forwards as it even moves backwards at some departments. How they managed to do this nobody knows.

 

[BennyBlanco]

I’m gonna drink a bunch of beer and dive into this over the weekend. Hope there’s cheats because the most fun I have with aoe is cheating and playing skirmishes.

 

[Tschumi]

Sorry mate, graphics are important in a game. I am a huge RTS player and frankly if the game doesn't look clean ( it doesn't need to look super high next gen visual obviously ) it will ruin the experience specially in a RTS game where u need to visually locate with your eyes things quick with easy to recognise buildings and units. Even warcraft 2 looks more clean in my view then this blurry fest of a game.

Also the technical aspect of only using 1 core in demanding places instead of more ( or alteast extremely limited on the multicore solution ) will limit the game scope like 200 max units u saw in the beta where on a 4x4 map u already dropped down to 60's while looking like a potato game, its pathethic for a full blown AAA game. Even indie games of a few people can do a better job.

Which results in this game not evolving forwards on the gameplay department. Which results in us only controlling a army of 100 units max. So why are we not controlling 1000's of units that actually fighting a war instead of a battle. because technical limitations made by a zero effort team.

This game is a technical mess and its holding the game back on every solution, immersive visuals, to immersive battles. As the battles will be tiny because the engine is just straight up garbage.

Its basically a reskin of a older age of empire with new bells and wissles tagged on, its the most secure and uninspiring sequel i have ever seen in my life, from visuals to gameplay and after all those years of waiting.

I will still be playing it tho, even while it fails on pretty much all expectations, besides music.

We should move forwards not backwards with a sequal. And with age of empire 2 being a thing it just doesn't feel like its a proper jump forwards as it even moves backwards at some departments. How they managed to do this nobody knows.

See what you're doing here is a different thing to what I've been taking aim at, which is blithely comparing screenshots with deliberately tweaked graphics settings and unfavourable ground textures/whatever and whinging about pixel counts and such.

What you're doing is technical evaluation and that's entirely valid.

Have a look at the multiplayer preview video in an earlier post i made and let me know if you think the graphics are washed out, etc. That's an easy way to do away with that part of your post. I personally think they look pretty perfect from those videos (it's pre-release footage hence a few weird stand-in effects)

I think it's too early to be calling the game's lack of multithreading too big a problem. It's 2021, they are experienced developers, they would have a reason why it's not happening. I'm going to wait and see how it performs before I freak out there. It's actually something I've mentioned in the 'things I'm worried about' part of my OP.

The question is if new developers want to carry on a beloved series or put their own spin on it. I don't know if you like Larian doing away with RTWP for BG3, but it's a similar thing. I don't want Age of Empires to be another Total War? What would the point of that be? I don't want it to zoom out and span continents like Supreme Commander, what would the point of that be? I'm glad that they seem to be entirely respecting the Age of Empires DNA... Again if you look at the multiplayer video I linked earlier, and the other such videos they've made, you'll see that there are actually a ton of new gameplay additions that make it a totally different game to Age 2, imo.

Can't agree with you on unit counts, Age of Empires has no obligation to be Supreme Commander or Total War, it's not a hardware or technical thing, it's a scale and intensity of gameplay thing, imo. You can't retain the balance of AoE gameplay with thousands of units - and the game is more about economics than combat, anyway...

OG Age of Empires was 75 units, that was a bit too few, generally you'd have 40-50 villagers and a llittle raiding party to fuck shit up, and if you wanted to go big you'd have to sacrifice some peons - but that was okay in a way because i think unit-by-unit damage was heavier in those days. I can't now remember when it became 200, I think it became 100 or 150 in Age 2 but I could be wrong and that jump was the one that went to 200... Either way, if you have two civilzations on a map that equates to 400 units, 600, 700, 800, things can get pretty hairy and that's suitable considering the size of the maps, I think.

These screens are to look at colours, keep in mind that it looks very different when all those units are moving around, changing directions, etc.

At the start of these videos they give summaries of the civilizations' unique traits and abilities, which is pretty cool... and yeah they seem to bring pretty amazing variation to it all... hell of a job of balancing i think

 

[TheSHEEEP]

ANY MENTION OF A FOUNTAIN OF YOUTH

Come on, man, that campaign was amazing!

Gloriously cheesy.
I loved it.

 

[ZehDon]

Pre-installed. Cannot wait to fire this up tomorrow after work with the lads.

 

[Monado Blade]

Only 9 more hours now....

 

[Kenpachii]

See what you're doing here is a different thing to what I've been taking aim at, which is blithely comparing screenshots with deliberately tweaked graphics settings and unfavourable ground textures/whatever and whinging about pixel counts and such.

What you're doing is technical evaluation and that's entirely valid.

Have a look at the multiplayer preview video in an earlier post i made and let me know if you think the graphics are washed out, etc. That's an easy way to do away with that part of your post. I personally think they look pretty perfect from those videos (it's pre-release footage hence a few weird stand-in effects)

I think it's too early to be calling the game's lack of multithreading too big a problem. It's 2021, they are experienced developers, they would have a reason why it's not happening. I'm going to wait and see how it performs before I freak out there. It's actually something I've mentioned in the 'things I'm worried about' part of my OP.

The question is if new developers want to carry on a beloved series or put their own spin on it. I don't know if you like Larian doing away with RTWP for BG3, but it's a similar thing. I don't want Age of Empires to be another Total War? What would the point of that be? I don't want it to zoom out and span continents like Supreme Commander, what would the point of that be? I'm glad that they seem to be entirely respecting the Age of Empires DNA... Again if you look at the multiplayer video I linked earlier, and the other such videos they've made, you'll see that there are actually a ton of new gameplay additions that make it a totally different game to Age 2, imo.

Can't agree with you on unit counts, Age of Empires has no obligation to be Supreme Commander or Total War, it's not a hardware or technical thing, it's a scale and intensity of gameplay thing, imo. You can't retain the balance of AoE gameplay with thousands of units - and the game is more about economics than combat, anyway...

OG Age of Empires was 75 units, that was a bit too few, generally you'd have 40-50 villagers and a llittle raiding party to fuck shit up, and if you wanted to go big you'd have to sacrifice some peons - but that was okay in a way because i think unit-by-unit damage was heavier in those days. I can't now remember when it became 200, I think it became 100 or 150 in Age 2 but I could be wrong and that jump was the one that went to 200... Either way, if you have two civilzations on a map that equates to 400 units, 600, 700, 800, things can get pretty hairy and that's suitable considering the size of the maps, I think.

These screens are to look at colours, keep in mind that it looks very different when all those units are moving around, changing directions, etc.

At the start of these videos they give summaries of the civilizations' unique traits and abilities, which is pretty cool... and yeah they seem to bring pretty amazing variation to it all... hell of a job of balancing i think

"See what you're doing here is a different thing to what I've been taking aim at, which is blithely comparing screenshots with deliberately tweaked graphics settings and unfavourable ground textures/whatever and whinging about pixel counts and such."

I have no clue if that screenshot sits at lower settings, its what i saw in my own playthrough on beta, here's a screenshot from that video i made back then and its ultra settings recorded at native resolution. Its the same shit. blurry as fuck the game.

Now what do i mean with blurry as fuck. Let me give you another example as u clearly didn't get it while using your own screenshot.

Your screenshot, look at the units in the back what are they? villagers? soldiers? what is it? u can't seem to see it because its blurry as fuck. everything in the screenshot is a blurry mess. Now u can say its compression all u want but its not its the game, because this next screenshot is taken in the same way.

Now look at a game that has its shit together.

Everything is clean, ecenomy buildings easily visible, walls, visible, towers visible, units easily recognizable because of colors and how they look and that from a huge zoom distance so u don't have to scroll 24/7 through the world, u can build, defend, control units all while having oversight. the absolute joy of being able to zoom out.

This is nothing that age of empire 4 has. The visuals / the art / the fights everything is a mess and nothing has evolved for a game that comes out 2 decades later. People complained about it a year ago when people got early access towards a beta to give them feedback, they did nothing as result.

Maybe u got some loyalty towards the company because they gave you early access to the game or are affiliated with the company, because honestly if you can't seem to see what a technical mess age of empire is and make statements that visuals aren't useful + good multicore support isn't really important. u honestly sound like u never played a RTS in your life. all those things are super important when it comes to RTS's because it decides how playable the game is and what future it has left. And this game is already dated on day one.

So lets not pretend they "love the game series" when in reality they did there best to ignore everything about it ( ignored experienced age of empire players, ignored community, ignored pretty much anything to as little as ui / zoom out solution ). Instead they focused on some useless 4k video's people will watch one single time and probably skipped while at it, because the gameplay is all that will keep the game alive after its first week. That's why age of empire 2 is still rocking and any game that's old as shit because of the gameplay, not the cutscenes in campaign. They prioritized the wrong thing here clearly.

And about trusting microsoft off all people and age of empire teams to do the right thing with patches in the future? yea good luck, how did age of empire online worked out for those patient players? oh wait "it got shut down because it didn't generate enough for microsoft" and nothing was said the next day. yea still salty about that one.

Anyway, what is possible.

Versus 194/200 units i created

Now why is it so little? because half of the units are your villagers, and the other half gets even more reduced by having special units like cannons that take x amount of player slots.

In comparison towards billions, 2000+ units, and u are fighting 10.000's of units with it, with having a huge city behind it, with lots of objects on the screen.

Look now u got some army's going.

Why is this not possible with age of empire 4? technical limitations.

I could defend one side of the wall, fight another player, while scouting with another group over the map, all of this is practically impossible without getting a headic in age of empire 4 because u will have to scroll around the world map like a nut because u can't even see a tiny bit of the map. I had the same problem in beta and so did every other dedicated rts player. It's a pain to deal to the point people will probably don't bother after a few matches anymore.

Directly effecting gameplay.

Performance has a direct effect on gameplay and the same goes for visuals. I am not asking for the next uncharted on RTS solutions, i am asking like anybody else on a RTS that first of all works, second of all is well designed, 3rd of all is pushing new gameplay solutions. Reskinning wow bosses, with adding a few new tree's on a map and giving a boss 3 more skills that he casts, isn't new and refreshing and better. it's a borefest of the most uninspiring shit u will ever see. Even while its technically superior to its older version.

I am big on RTS probably bigger then you, i have countless of hours in them i grow up with them its my main game solution and i play a fuck ton of games for a ton of hours. Even that they are billions game i already have something like 2,3k hours on, age of empire online simulaire amounts of time hell i still play it ( not becuase of microsoft or age of empire teams but because fans kept the game going, the same way as age of empire 2 was deserted by microsoft, but fans kept it going )

I know what's important in a RTS and i am telling you visuals for as little as UI or recognize stuff instantly are mighty important in a RTS, as u need to know where everything is. If its to noisy, to blurry and everything looks to much the same it kills the gameplay entirely. the fact u dismiss it in your opening post like its somekind of irrelevant thing makes me wonder if you ever played a single RTS in your life to start with. I assume you do as u mentioned a few RTS games, but honestly it makes your opinion on that front even more mindboggling.

The thing with me however is, i don't sugercoat my opinion. I say exactly what i think even in the genre and the ip i love the most, some people hate me for it others like it its what it is. If its dog shit i will say it. I have no brand loyality or no loyality towards any product. In my view, the game should have been delayed for a year, moved to another dev team that actually have a passion for the IP and a proper budget and start remaking the game to become a actual worthful sequel, but that would cost money and time and investment something microsoft isn't know about with RTS games and specially age of empire IP, they probably hired them becuase they where the cheapest people in the industry they could find. And it shows.

anyway.

valheim is one of my favorite games of this year. it looks like absolute dog shit in comparison towards most games, but they did a perfect balance of visuals / gameplay / exploration etc as the visuals are perfectly balanced to not hold the gameplay back. the price they asked for it was cheap and it made the game great.

This game however is a full blown tripple AAA game that's sold at 60 bucks by one of the biggest company's in the world called microsoft. And i will look at it in such a manner. And frankly what they deliver here is nothing but underwhelming.

Now it all sounds like super negative from my side, but the reality is i support every RTS game that's made. I got them pretty much all with all expansions why? because its my main genre i want big studio's to invest into the the genre again. And from what i played in the beta it wasn't god awful it was acceptable at best and i hope they did polish the game and support it for longer then they did there games in the past ( age of empire teams and mirosoft have a god awful track record on this front probably the worst ).

I can't wait to test the new country's out and the way they play in multiplayer, the beta country's where great. i want to see more.

 

[Tschumi]

Kenpachii mate you're coming from a totally different place to me. I think i know you're a steamer but i didn't know how hardcore you'd be about this.

I'm just a fan, didn't get any early access or anything, I'm basing my opinions off live streams.

I'll just say... Okay, visuals, from what I've seen it's going to be good enough for me. But i can't say you're wrong. Age of Empires has always been a game that requires clicking around a map, etc, I dunno again I don't really mind having to keep doing that. I think you can double tap hotkeys to center the camera on them, so if you assign your units with ctrl-1 etc it might be easy to hop around between them, also there's a hotkey to center on your towncenter/cycle through multiple town centers... at least it was as such in age 2...

I really think the army size is a function of series DNA rather than relic's chops. Like i said earlier.. i think they've elected to make an age of empires game, not the Game Of The Future. I'm okay with it.

I totally appreciate that you love RTSs, me too.

That stuff you say about unit counts, I really just don't think it's relevant, because these unit counts are part of the reason age 2 is often mentioned in the top 3 RTS games ever (#1 imo) it's not meant to be total war, supreme commander of whichever, it's meant to be up to 8 civs, directing 200 units each, many of them economic units, around a map. I don't think i have to go on.

I mean if you value different things, that's fine by me. You have earned the right to hold your own opinion and i appreciate your write up.

I really hope they patch the performance problems, threading etc, i want this to run like a finely tuned bit of German engineered BMW lol but it doesn't need to be the space shuttle, for me.

EDIT: oh mate i just wanna add, my screenshot that you commented on was a snip of a live stream, i was just using it to show that colours stood out, it's like 300kb jpeg nothing to judge too hard on

EDIT: the stuff i said about settings etc was not connected to our talk

EDIT: I gotta say, I'm kinda triggered by how Relic keep releasing trailers etc with huge battles with epic camera sweeps... AoE battles never look like that, it's much more skirmish'y, yeah those trailers are totally appealing to the TW crowd, I can't stand 'em

 

[Tschumi]

Ooooh shit it's out!

It dropped at the moment of bed time for me so I only did the intro mission, it plays pretty well - I expect it to get a lot more complex, and I'm looking forward to that. I mean, the William Wallace Campaign in age 2 was hardly a brain exploder compared to Jean d"Arc etc... I did find it a bit cute when the narrator referred to a 'glorious city' that was a couple of industry buildings and two big landmarks, but I'm the last person to nit that particular pick.

 

[Monado Blade]

Messed around a bit with the tutorial, as it also came out around bed time for me. I like what I'm seeing. Will have more time this weekend to truly dig into it