Support NeoGAF

[tassletine]

What I find odd is that fans of Game of Thrones (of which I am) loved it when popular characters were being brutally killed, however, when it happened in a game, gamers went nuts. All that says to me is that some gamers need to grow the fuck up.

They both suffered from average writing that dragged out a basic premise, and both relied on long stretches of nothing punctuated by high stakes melodrama.
It's junky storytelling. Keep you waiting then hit you with something twice as strong to make up for it.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Not liking a game for not living up to expectations is being an "edgelord" now? Seems pretty insecure having to dismiss valid criticisms in such a petty passive aggressive way.

The gaming media is more or less the extension of the AAA industry's marketing department, not really much credibility there to begin with.

I'm not talking about people who dislike the game for the reasoned criticisms they have against it (valid or not).

I'm talking about the contingent of people on the internet that have a pathological compulsion to hate on every game that is widely regarded positively by the rest of the industry.

These are the most vocal minority.

You should have understood that.

 

[arvfab]

What a masterpiece of a game. One year later, and people still talk about it.

 

[evanft]

I'm here for the twenty pages

 

[Paasei]

I really enjoyed the simplicity of the stealth gameplay and mechanics. Story was alright.

 

[PanzerAzel]

Yeah, it's like... only the whole point of the game? lol.

If we're calling that kind of thing "manipulation"... well I don't know what to say. Most stories do this; everything is manipulative in this way, and contrived. Welcome to drama. Holding it up as if it's some narrative flaw is not a compelling argument, that's how stories are told.

Yes, storytelling is manipulative by nature, but effective storytelling is subtlety so. Good writers are able to hide their hands from the audience.

When you can feel the puppetmaster pulling the strings, that’s indicative of poor and sloppy storytelling, and I’m sorry, but TLoU II suffered numerous points where you could tangibly sense the writer’s intent…..shoving it again and again and again in your face. “FEEL THIS, DAMNIT!!”

Frankly, the game is borderline insulting in its accord to the audience’s intelligence.

 

[GymWolf]

Edit

 

[GymWolf]

I did a second run after the ps5 patch and my idea didn't changed.

Great production values, super meaty and gorey combat, ok story with some stupid shit in it, almost no likeable characters whatsoever and enemy ia that even on grounded sound and look way smarter that it really is.

Not even disturbed by the pacing, i think that unchy4 is way worse in this aspect.

 

[PanzerAzel]

It's obviously a great game, the technical aspects and set pieces etc are some of the best ever, but imo the story was poor and deserved its criticism.

The basic problem was that - while the first game felt like art in that it created a vivid, frightening world and likeable, complex, believable characters, and used the combination to explore the general human condition without imposing hectoring sermons - the sequel abandoned that for a shallow and crudely communicated "message" about the "cycle of violence".

To me that's just unambiguously inferior writing right from the off - and there was plenty more wrong with it on top. There was almost nothing nuanced or intelligent about its writing at all, to be honest.

Agreed.

The original game feels like an unbiased observation leaving the player to come to their own conclusions from the organic evolution of the characters, whereas the second game feels almost like an ideological imposition (not referring to the woke shit) where the characters were nothing but vessels to be used in its enforcement.

The writer’s bias in the second is apparent in what they desperately wanted you to feel, instead of letting you simply feel what came naturally. It was heavy-handed in its execution, and was detrimentally noticeable.

 

[bit_blaster]

Neil said he read NeoGAF forums and liked the see people have debates. This is exactly what he wanted. lol

Neil also sperged out over criticism of the game on twitter after it came out. I'd argue that if you have to argue and insist something is good while everyone else is dumb, then you've already lost.

 

[bit_blaster]

He lied to hide the truth. You can't keep ignoring the story of TLOU 1 and 2. Its like you're not treating TLOU 2 as cannon.

Again, thats just the definition of lying itself, not a reason. Do you know why Joel kept the truth? Thats up for speculation.

Because he did something wrong

Wrong according to whom?

 

[assurdum]

Really gotta disagree with you. Everything seemed consistent and logical to me given the overall world-view and character trajectories. There are contrivances and implausibilities but they are largely unavoidable given its a video game.

Honestly, its just not a "fun" type of story. The first game was dark but was constructed such that it was more emotionally appealing with actual peaks of relatable catharsis. The rub though was that this catharsis was achieved in every instance by delivering a justification for extreme violence. It felt good to off a hospital full of Firefly goons to save Ellie, it felt good for Eliie to stab the shit out of David the creepy paedo-cannibal-rapist!

The second game is all about critiquing that by forcing us to deal with the unpleasant realities. The downside I guess is that its constructed to travel a path to a climax that is never going to be so entertainingly barbaric. Its clear from the outset that at best its going to end with a pyrrhic victory, so its harder to invest.

Easy emotion? So now we are emotion shaming?!
I hated that game for good 15 hours. It worked hard to win me over and it is a roller coaster of emotion.

Fuck your easy emotion. I never cry but I did on the last guardian, death Stranding and tlou2 last gen

I think you have misleaded what really I mean. Just to be clear I think the whole story is bad writing because it's purposely only about "bad and dramatic feeling" (which is the only achievement but with visible stratagems) and if we are look to the true content, it's incredibly empty and unoriginal (again I invite some people to play Metro Exodus and see how much they have extrapolated to it) becoming uninteresting at the end of everything, for me personally. Just because make you feel bad about the Ellie/Abby events, for me doesn't excuse the lack of a solid/original/interesting story subject behind which was big part of the first. Practically didn't happened anything which move the whole universe, it's just about make you feel terrible for Ellie/Abby and that's it.

 

[bit_blaster]

Agreed.

The original game feels like an unbiased observation leaving the player to come to their own conclusions from the organic evolution of the characters, whereas the second game feels almost like an ideological imposition (not referring to the woke shit) where the characters were nothing but vessels to be used in its enforcement.

The writer’s bias in the second is apparent in what they desperately wanted you to feel, instead of letting you simply feel what came naturally. It was heavy-handed in its execution, and was detrimentally noticeable.

This is the ultimate failure of the second game. Were supposed to feel bad for wanting revenge because the game goes resorts to cheap emotional manipulation such as killing a dog or a pregnant woman(which Abby almost knowingly does later as opposed to Ellie to did it accidentally) to make us feel bad, yet the problem was I still felt Ellie was justified in her actions since she was mostly defending herself and Abby and her crew were not relatable or likable in the slightest.

 

[assurdum]

This is the ultimate failure of the second game. Were supposed to feel bad for wanting revenge because the game goes resorts to cheap emotional manipulation such as killing a dog or a pregnant woman(which Abby almost knowingly does later as opposed to Ellie to did it accidentally) to make us feel bad, yet the problem was I still felt Ellie was justified in her actions since she was mostly defending herself and Abby and her crew were not relatable or likable in the slightest.

That's my biggest complain about it. You feel manipulate for the whole time from the story, I literally don't understand why some characters do what they do if not just to increase the drama feeling and the end I can't shake my head thinking: so, that's it? All that caos just to tell me revenge is bad? The whole world is still same, no one search a cure, people are just morons which just think to survive and nothing more? Meh.

 

[Woodchipper]

For me it’s simple. First half was fantastic, second half was not.

Oh, and it’s waaay too fucking long.

 

[Hunnybun]

That's my biggest complain about it. You feel manipulate for the whole time from the story, I literally don't understand why some characters do what they do if not just to increase the drama feeling and the end I can't shake my head thinking: so, that's it? All that caos just to tell me revenge is bad? The whole world is still same, no one search a cure, people are just morons which just think to survive and nothing more? Meh.

I think all that is true, but for me the most irritating part of the story was something very simple: I didn't like (or frankly, believe) how angry Ellie was with Joel for saving her life. I don't know, it just annoyed me - maybe it's just me but it just didn't feel believable.

"She needed her immunity to mean something".

Again, I might be missing something obvious, but that whole idea just felt like a reach. Is that what she would have thought? Erm..... maybe.... I guess? Is that what an antsy teenager living in the apocalypse would feel in that utterly extraordinary and unrelatable situation? Apart from anything else, it just seemed so self-obsessed that it made me dislike her straight away.

Also, it seemed to me to clearly undermine the credibility of her need for revenge. I mean, they were basically estranged. Would it not have been far better from the POV of driving the story forward for them to have had a very positive relationship, and so you really felt her devastation at his death. You could have then woven in some suppressed feelings of disgust at what he did during the actual revenge mission, via flashbacks or whatever, and used that to illustrate how people will refuse to engage with nuance and their mixed feelings etc and how revenge feeds on that kind of dishonesty.

I just felt the whole thing was badly handled.

 

[Ulysses 31]

I think all that is true, but for me the most irritating part of the story was something very simple: I didn't like (or frankly, believe) how angry Ellie was with Joel for saving her life. I don't know, it just annoyed me - maybe it's just me but it just didn't feel believable.

"She needed her immunity to mean something".

Again, I might be missing something obvious, but that whole idea just felt like a reach. Is that what she would have thought? Erm..... maybe.... I guess? Is that what an antsy teenager living in the apocalypse would feel in that utterly extraordinary and unrelatable situation? Apart from anything else, it just seemed so self-obsessed that it made me dislike her straight away.

There's also other implications that make part 2 Ellie unlikeable, that she was willing to cut off Joel from her life without notice after all they've been through in part 1 while knowing what losing a daughter in the past did to him.

 

[Hunnybun]

There's also other implications that make part 2 Ellie unlikeable, that she was willing to cut off Joel from her life without notice after all they've been through in part 1 while knowing what losing a daughter in the past did to him.

Yeah, exactly, that's what I was getting at in her being self-obsessed.

It's an almost impossibly complicated situation and the only believable reaction is some kind of dumbstruck internal conflict, ie EXACTLY what we got at the end of the first game!!

aka the complete opposite of the brattish "you're fucking EVIL maaaaan! Stay away from me maaaaan!" that was retconned into the second game - and I say retconned because that's yet another problem with it: she so fucking obviously already knew he was lying at the end of the first one, so how could she possibly have been shocked to discover the finer details later on?! I'm sorry, it was just fucking BS.

 

[yurqqa]

I just love the aesthetics of deserted buildings and offices.
When I played the part in TV station, I though - that's the kind of office I would've liked to work at. And then realized that idea is that it wasn't actually built in the green area apart from other buildings. The green area came to it.

As for the reactions - most of the people don't even try to understand the feelings of other people.
At the same time most of the people see only the plot in the movies. The never thought movies could be made to cause a reaction, to give the food for thought.

If one-dimensional characters are your comfort zone - just play another game.

 

[Whitecrow]

I think all that is true, but for me the most irritating part of the story was something very simple: I didn't like (or frankly, believe) how angry Ellie was with Joel for saving her life. I don't know, it just annoyed me - maybe it's just me but it just didn't feel believable.

"She needed her immunity to mean something".

Again, I might be missing something obvious, but that whole idea just felt like a reach. Is that what she would have thought? Erm..... maybe.... I guess? Is that what an antsy teenager living in the apocalypse would feel in that utterly extraordinary and unrelatable situation? Apart from anything else, it just seemed so self-obsessed that it made me dislike her straight away.

Also, it seemed to me to clearly undermine the credibility of her need for revenge. I mean, they were basically estranged. Would it not have been far better from the POV of driving the story forward for them to have had a very positive relationship, and so you really felt her devastation at his death. You could have then woven in some suppressed feelings of disgust at what he did during the actual revenge mission, via flashbacks or whatever, and used that to illustrate how people will refuse to engage with nuance and their mixed feelings etc and how revenge feeds on that kind of dishonesty.

I just felt the whole thing was badly handled.

To be fair, Ellie's position of 'OK I survived but thanks to me, humanity still suffers' is awful.
It's totally understandable that she thinks it would have been better if she died, and Ellie's internal conflict about dying or survivng surely is making her suffer a lot.

Exploring this emotions and her relationship with Joel would have made a great story already I think. But well Neil ambition knows no limits

 

[Hunnybun]

To be fair, Ellie's position of 'OK I survived but thanks to me, humanity still suffers' is awful.
It's totally understandable that she thinks it would have been better if she died, and Ellie's internal conflict about dying or survivng surely is making her suffer a lot.

Exploring this emotions and her relationship with Joel would have made a great story already I think. But well Neil ambition knows no limits

I guess I just don't buy it. But worse than that, how can anyone buy it? It's a totally alien situation and nobody playing the game would have a clue how Ellie would feel, so for me having her have any kind of strong reaction either way requires too much of a leap of faith in the observer and therefore a loss of sympathy. In general though, people tend not to be willing to sacrifice much, if anything, for remote goals or ideals. It's kind of the realm of fanatics tbh. The urge to survive is overwhelming, and where people do make sacrifices it's for their immediate circle. Trying to persuade us otherwise felt dishonest.

Just seems like bad writing to me.

 

[Guilty_AI]

What a masterpiece of a game. One year later, and people still talk about it.

The never thought movies could be made to cause a reaction, to give the food for thought.

thats like saying rebecca black - friday is a masterpiece of a song because it has +150 000 000 views, two times more than some great pink floyd songs like High Hopes.

People may still argue and react to it, but not for the right reasons. Any talk surrounding TLoU2 is something along the lines:
"TLoU2 is a mustahpiece!!!1!1!"
"it isn't, heres a shitload of really bad writing examples in the game"
"LA LA LA can't hear you. You just can't handle MATURITY!1!1"
"So a generic revenge story with gory action and zombies is mature?"
"OMG, PEOPLE DISCUSS THE GAME SO MUCH, SO DEEP, NEIL IS A GENIUS!!!"
"..."

If you ever actually discussed works of fiction or art, it isn't anything like this. This is just a result of having a really big and defensive fanbase that can't accept their favorite game has flaws. Lots of flaws.

 

[Whitecrow]

I guess I just don't buy it. But worse than that, how can anyone buy it? It's a totally alien situation and nobody playing the game would have a clue how Ellie would feel, so for me having her have any kind of strong reaction either way requires too much of a leap of faith in the observer and therefore a loss of sympathy. In general though, people tend not to be willing to sacrifice much, if anything, for remote goals or ideals. It's kind of the realm of fanatics tbh. The urge to survive is overwhelming, and where people do make sacrifices it's for their immediate circle. Trying to persuade us otherwise felt dishonest.

Just seems like bad writing to me.

I was not defending the writing : D

I was just going to agree with you but ended up giving it some thought and giving my opinion.
It may be hard to know exactly how Elie would feel, but one thing is for sure, 'like shit'. Beyond that, knowing how she should react is a whole other story : D

And also, maybe Elli could just not give a fuck about the situation, be grateful to be alive, and appreciate Joel for what he did, but that doesnt bring up too much content to make a story haha

 

[Hunnybun]

I was not defending the writing : D

I was just going to agree with you but ended up giving it some thought and giving my opinion.
It may be hard to know exactly how Elie would feel, but one thing is for sure, 'like shit'. Beyond that, knowing how she should react is a whole other story : D

And also, maybe Elli could just not give a fuck about the situation, be grateful to be alive, and appreciate Joel for what he did, but that doesnt bring up too much content to make a story haha

Actually dude it would've provided much better fuel for a revenge story than the weird setup we actually got.

 

[Ulysses 31]

snip

I'm curious about your overall take of TLOU2, you in the camp of it being a technical marvel with good production values but the writing overall makes it a disappointing sequel?

 

[Guilty_AI]

I'm curious about your overall take of TLOU2, you in the camp of it being a technical marvel with good production values but the writing overall makes it a disappointing sequel?

More or less. In fact, i think it can be quite enjoyable if you stop taking the story seriously and just see it as PEW PEW BOOM GUTS ARE FLYING type of game, while laughing at the characters utter stupidity.

 

[Magnific0giganticus]

I think all that is true, but for me the most irritating part of the story was something very simple: I didn't like (or frankly, believe) how angry Ellie was with Joel for saving her life. I don't know, it just annoyed me - maybe it's just me but it just didn't feel believable.

"She needed her immunity to mean something".

Again, I might be missing something obvious, but that whole idea just felt like a reach. Is that what she would have thought? Erm..... maybe.... I guess? Is that what an antsy teenager living in the apocalypse would feel in that utterly extraordinary and unrelatable situation? Apart from anything else, it just seemed so self-obsessed that it made me dislike her straight away.

Also, it seemed to me to clearly undermine the credibility of her need for revenge. I mean, they were basically estranged. Would it not have been far better from the POV of driving the story forward for them to have had a very positive relationship, and so you really felt her devastation at his death. You could have then woven in some suppressed feelings of disgust at what he did during the actual revenge mission, via flashbacks or whatever, and used that to illustrate how people will refuse to engage with nuance and their mixed feelings etc and how revenge feeds on that kind of dishonesty.

I just felt the whole thing was badly handled.

Ellie never got to make amends with Joel, that's exactly what was eating her inside. She couldn't forgive the only father figure she had and felt so strongly for. Abby robbed her of that.

 

[Hunnybun]

Ellie never got to make amends with Joel, that's exactly what was eating her inside. She couldn't forgive the only father figure she had and felt so strongly for. Abby robbed her of that.

But she did forgive him, right? It's in the last flashback?

 

[Phase]

I still haven't played it. I think that's a feat to celebrate.

 

[ethomaz]

Masterpiece the only word worth of this game.
One of the best games of last generation.

 

[Magnific0giganticus]

But she did forgive him, right? It's in the last flashback?

No, she didn't get the chance. The last thing she said to him was she didn't know if she'll ever forgive him.

 

[yurqqa]

This is why we can have good script only in lower budget games that don't target mass market.

Because any script and characters more complex than in Marvel movies are already lost to 80% of the audience.
Mainstream US movies degraded and took the audience with them.

I bet not many of the people that hate TLOU2 liked Disco Elysium.

And TLOU2 script is very simple and the characters are not that complex. People are just not used to analyze their own feelings and reflect on them.

 

[Hunnybun]

No, she didn't get the chance. The last thing she said to him was she didn't know if she'll ever forgive him.

No but it was tacit that she at least understands and still loves him. It was effectively a reconciliation.

Therefore I don't think it's valid to claim that the denial of some unspoken sentiment was the driving force for the revenge. If that were the developers' intention, they'd surely have left it completely and unambiguously unvoiced.

 

[Magnific0giganticus]

No but it was tacit that she at least understands and still loves him. It was effectively a reconciliation.

Therefore I don't think it's valid to claim that the denial of some unspoken sentiment was the driving force for the revenge. If that were the developers' intention, they'd surely have left it completely and unambiguously unvoiced.

Why would you think it was the *only* "driving force" for revenge? And I don't think that final conversation made amends. Not a reconciliation by any means if she just said she doesn't know if she'll ever forgive him for that. It's not like that made her hate Joel or that she didn't love him anymore, she still loved him, a lot. Of course there's ambiguity everywhere. Is that wrong because you want things spelled out for you? Are feelings always clear-cut?

 

[Guilty_AI]

This is why we can have good script only in lower budget games that don't target mass market.

Because any script and characters more complex than in Marvel movies are already lost to 80% of the audience.
Mainstream US movies degraded and took the audience with them.

I bet not many of the people that hate TLOU2 liked Disco Elysium.

And TLOU2 script is very simple and the characters are not that complex. People are just not used to analyze their own feelings and reflect on them.

I don't like TLoU2 writing because its on the level of Marvel movies, if not worse.

No one calls 2002's spiderman deep or mature because Uncle Ben dies in the first hour and then Peter Parker procceeds to hunt-down the criminal, kill him and regret it afterwards. But the fanbase is doing just that with TLoU2.

 

[KungFucius]

I liked the game a lot. The story had me doing something I didn't want to do with Ellie. I didn't like her decision to go back after Abby. It was stupid. I get that she was partly doing it to make sure Tommy (? not sure on the names after all this time) didn't do it in his state, but it just felt lame.

 

[Hunnybun]

Why would you think it was the *only* "driving force" for revenge? And I don't think that final conversation made amends. Not a reconciliation by any means if she just said she doesn't know if she'll ever forgive him for that. It's not like that made her hate Joel or that she didn't love him anymore, she still loved him, a lot. Of course there's ambiguity everywhere. Is that wrong because you want things spelled out for you? Are feelings always clear-cut?

I didn't say that you thought it was the ONLY factor, but was responding to your apparent claim that it was a very significant factor where you said that it was what was eating her and that it was what Abby robbed her of. That seems to clearly imply that you thought it was a very significant motivation for her drive for revenge.

So you don't think that? If that's not the claim you're making then I'm not really sure what we're discussing tbh.

 

[yurqqa]

No one calls 2002's spiderman deep or mature because Uncle Ben dies in the first hour and then Peter Parker procceeds to hunt-down the criminal, kill him and regret it afterwards. But the fanbase is doing just that with TLoU2.

I wouldn't call TLOU2 deep and mature, but for AAA video game intended for mass market it's ok.

I'd like to have more controversial AAA games, but publishers don't want to take the risk and with current budgets I get it.

Fortunately if you don't focus on cutting edge graphics, you have much more variety.


I played Kentucky Reute Zero recently. I constantly had "What the hell is happening ?" question while playing it, but I still remember pieces of that experience.
I don't want what it was, but I want more shit like that.

I played Disco Elysium and I drank every evening while playing it, although I don't usually drink that often.
That's what I call "immersive gameplay".

TLOU2 is far away from that, but a step in the right direction for recent AAA games.

 

[Magnific0giganticus]

I didn't say that you thought it was the ONLY factor, but was responding to your apparent claim that it was a very significant factor where you said that it was what was eating her and that it was what Abby robbed her of. That seems to clearly imply that you thought it was a very significant motivation for her drive for revenge.

So you don't think that? If that's not the claim you're making then I'm not really sure what we're discussing tbh.

I think that's a strong factor and you don't think it was a factor at all. Agree to disagree. It's ambiguous and subjective, and that's my take. Nothing "wrong" or "right" about it.

 

[Guilty_AI]

I wouldn't call TLOU2 deep and mature, but for AAA video game intended for mass market it's ok.

I'd like to have more controversial AAA games, but publishers don't want to take the risk and with current budgets I get it.

I half get your point, but controverys =/= a good script or complexity. Old GTAs, original Doom or Carmageddon were fairly controversial for their time and none of those had well written stories or made any meaningful points.

Fortunately if you don't focus on cutting edge graphics, you have much more variety.

I agree with that, but i don't see TLoU2 as a step in the right direction. You might think the story is "bold" but at the end of the day is still just a revenge plot that makes space for easy action and violence. Every other aspect is as safe as it comes, from the stealth/action/crafting gameplay to the pacing of shoot stuff -> loot -> watch cutscene.

I'd argue Death Stranding is a far more bolder game that helps pushing the medium (in the AAA space at least), even though the writing isn't all that great either.

 

[TintoConCasera]

Played it for a while and didn't like it, it was too boring.

 

[arvfab]

thats like saying rebecca black - friday is a masterpiece of a song because it has +150 000 000 views, two times more than some great pink floyd songs like High Hopes.

People may still argue and react to it, but not for the right reasons. Any talk surrounding TLoU2 is something along the lines:
"TLoU2 is a mustahpiece!!!1!1!"
"it isn't, heres a shitload of really bad writing examples in the game"
"LA LA LA can't hear you. You just can't handle MATURITY!1!1"
"So a generic revenge story with gory action and zombies is mature?"
"OMG, PEOPLE DISCUSS THE GAME SO MUCH, SO DEEP, NEIL IS A GENIUS!!!"
"..."

If you ever actually discussed works of fiction or art, it isn't anything like this. This is just a result of having a really big and defensive fanbase that can't accept their favorite game has flaws. Lots of flaws.

People can find flaws in everything, and people like to bitch over everything.

Opinions can differ, you might not like it, for me it's a masterpiece not only BUT also because of it's great story.

 

[rofif]

I think you have misleaded what really I mean. Just to be clear I think the whole story is bad writing because it's purposely only about "bad and dramatic feeling" (which is the only achievement but with visible stratagems) and if we are look to the true content, it's incredibly empty and unoriginal (again I invite some people to play Metro Exodus and see how much they have extrapolated to it) becoming uninteresting at the end of everything, for me personally. Just because make you feel bad about the Ellie/Abby events, for me doesn't excuse the lack of a solid/original/interesting story subject behind which was big part of the first. Practically didn't happened anything which move the whole universe, it's just about make you feel terrible for Ellie/Abby and that's it.

I cannot believe you put metro exodus as an example. It is a complete opposite. Anna never fucking shuts up. Everyone always talks and by the end I am glad she is finally dead. It's a terrible game narrative wise...
That said, I like Metro Exodus A LOT and finished it like ... 3 times. I always feel good at the end but it's better than sum of it's parts. The world barely makes sense but it's not bad. but the personal story I could not care about mainly because you are never talking and everyone else never shuts up.

They explain is 10x better why I think tlou2 is amazing

 

[Danjin44]

Fortunately if you don't focus on cutting edge graphics, you have much more variety.

ND are heavily rely on graphics, they are not like Yoko Taro and Shu Takumi who can make amazing games with limited budget.

 

[DForce]

 

[Alebrije]

TLOU2 is longer than it should be, has cringe moments, deceptions for fans and forgettable chaeacters...but still is a great game.

From a story perspective yep a lot of people does not likes Joels fate and most of the events in the game are useless but ND did a geat ending because they cut all Ellie's ties with her world.

You can see how Ellie abandones all at then end and just walks to the woods ..this means that TLOU3 will be about Ellie on a new territory with new pals and foes ..and hope it tells us more about the state of the humanity in general than just focus on her story.

There will be a TLO3 otherwise why keep Ellie alive. Also Sony wont let that gold mine being closed to early

 

[assurdum]

I cannot believe you put metro exodus as an example. It is a complete opposite. Anna never fucking shuts up. Everyone always talks and by the end I am glad she is finally dead. It's a terrible game narrative wise...
That said, I like Metro Exodus A LOT and finished it like ... 3 times. I always feel good at the end but it's better than sum of it's parts. The world barely makes sense but it's not bad. but the personal story I could not care about mainly because you are never talking and everyone else never shuts up.

They explain is 10x better why I think tlou2 is amazing

Wut? No no lol. I said TLOU2 has literally copied part of the subject of the Metro Exodus story lol. I perfectly know Metro is not intended to be "emotional" but Neil take many details from the story of Exodus and put those in TLOU2. The religious group, the prophet, the people who refuse the technology. Even the guards who communicates with whistle lol

 

[rofif]

Wut? No no lol. I said TLOU2 has completed copied part of the subject of the story lol. I perfectly know Metro is not intended to be "emotional" but Neil take many details from the story of Exodus. It's evident.

I don't feel so. Not at all. THe stories are nothing alike... And tlou2 was in dev at the same time cmon.
There is not even revenge in exodus. And you act like getting inspired by other movies/games is a bad thing.
People here are crazy and delusional recently. I can't take it. I need a break lol

 

[assurdum]

I don't feel so. Not at all. THe stories are nothing alike... And tlou2 was in dev at the same time cmon.
There is not even revenge in exodus. And you act like getting inspired by other movies/games is a bad thing.
People here are crazy and delusional recently. I can't take it. I need a break lol

Are you kidding? So is it a coincidence
The religious group, the prophet, the people who refuse the technology. Even the guards who communicated with whistle lol

 

[rofif]

Are you kidding? So is it a coincidence

I DONT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE SAYING. THESE GAMES ARE NOTHING ALIKE.