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[mcjmetroid]

U alright bro

Your post might be true if Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 didn't exist. But they do. So fuck off mate.

Man those games weren't great either. Once you take off the nostalgia glasses you have a mountain of problems. I played it back in the day on GameCube as least and compared to other platformers of the time... Yeah it didn't hold up even back then.

Horrible Camera,
Awful level clipping and glitching
While the sonic stages were good everything else was awful. Them tails missions and knuckles mission in 2....

Sonic adventure 2 had horrible audio compression, can barely hear the dialogue and it's badly voice acted anyway.

Sonic adventure 2 is the best 3D sonic game ive played and I'd only call the game " good,,' but not great. There was a lot of fun unlockables and the game had lots of content but none of it was particularly amazing.

 

[OmegaSpirit32X]

Man those games weren't great either. Once you take off the nostalgia glasses you have a mountain of problems. I played it back in the day on GameCube as least and compared to other platformers of the time... Yeah it didn't hold up even back then.

Horrible Camera,
Awful level clipping and glitching
While the sonic stages were good everything else was awful. Them tails missions and knuckles mission in 2....

Sonic adventure 2 had horrible audio compression, can barely hear the dialogue and it's badly voice acted anyway.

Sonic adventure 2 is the best 3D sonic game ive played and I'd only call the game " good,,' but not great. There was a lot of fun unlockables and the game had lots of content but none of it was particularly amazing.

>Horrible Camera
every 3D Platformer at the time suffered from those issues, even Mario 64.
>Awful Level Clipping and Glitching
if you play the botched up ports yeah, but the older the version the more stable, the Dreamcast versions are the best ones, but the OG DX and Battle realeases one Gamecube aren't that bad either
>While the Sonic stages were good everything else was awful
for SA2 i do agree to an extent, while i think the mech or Treasure Hunting weren't that bad in SA2, they were vastly inferior to the ones in SA1, and SA1 outside of big is mostly enjoyable.
>Horrible audio compression
agree but it's not that big of a deal.

 

[Ezquimacore]

I'm not a Sonic fan but I think generations and colors are pretty entertaining.

 

[mcjmetroid]

>Horrible Camera
every 3D Platformer at the time suffered from those issues, even Mario 64.
>Awful Level Clipping and Glitching
if you play the botched up ports yeah, but the older the version the more stable, the Dreamcast versions are the best ones, but the OG DX and Battle realeases one Gamecube aren't that bad either
>While the Sonic stages were good everything else was awful
for SA2 i do agree to an extent, while i think the mech or Treasure Hunting weren't that bad in SA2, they were vastly inferior to the ones in SA1, and SA1 outside of big is mostly enjoyable.
>Horrible audio compression
agree but it's not that big of a deal.

Well first of all Adventure 2 was a good few years after Mario 64 but ya you're right all platformers had camera issues and still do but
No the horrible camera is a massive problem in a game where one third of it it wants you to hunt for treasure in caves etc. I haaated those missions. What were they thinking?

Pretty much that's the only area where the camera is a major problem. The rest of the game modes are very linear.

I had no idea the GameCube port wasn't as good as the Dreamcast port. They may have been a large part of the glitch problem so.
But well ....how many people actually played the Dreamcast version though considering it was released after the systems cancellation?
I'm fairly sure most people are basing their nostalgia on the GameCube port or ports afterwards.

See I think the point to this thread is whether 3D sonic games are bad.... Well they're more bad than good for sure. There isn't one where anyone could say is a classic with a straight face.

I'm sure you can call them average on average. That's fair I think.

 

[bender]

The "3D" qualifier on the thread title is unnecessary.

 

[OmegaSpirit32X]

The "3D" qualifier on the thread title is unnecessary.

Sonic Bad plz like x2

 

[MvCSpiderman]

You asked about the difference between the homing attack and Mario's way of killing enemies. And i gave you the answer.

No, your description was a generalization so you didn't answer the question.

 

[bender]

Sonic Bad plz like x2

How you type and your taste in video games are in lockstep.

 

[OmegaSpirit32X]

How you type and your taste in video games are in lockstep.

if your taste relies purely on bandwagons, then you have an even worse taste.

 

[nkarafo]

No, your description was a generalization so you didn't answer the question.

Οh i did.

You specifically asked about the difference with the homing attack. Specifically this function alone. Not any other thing you do in Sonic. The homing attack involves the pressing of a button and nothing else.

Mario's attacks involve the things i specified.

After that you brought up other things you do in Sonic, even though i didn't say anything about those. You made the generalization, not me.

I don't know what else to tell you.

 

[MvCSpiderman]

Οh i did.

You specifically asked about the difference with the homing attack. Specifically this function alone. Not any other thing you do in Sonic. The homing attack involves the pressing of a button and nothing else.

Mario's attacks involve the things i specified.

After that you brought up other things you do in Sonic, even though i didn't say anything about those. You made the generalization, not me.

I don't know what else to tell you.

You're difference included a generalisation based on ignorance. If a game has a homing attack that doesn't "win automatically" it invalidates your answer. You are the one that added the extra irrelevant details.

 

[nkarafo]

You're difference included a generalisation based on ignorance. If a game has a homing attack that doesn't "win automatically" it invalidates your answer. You are the one that added the extra irrelevant details.

What else does the homing attack require from the player?

I haven't played all 3D Sonic games, because i don't give a shit about them. But the few i played were like this: Sonic runs, the camera steers, you correct his position so he doesn't get stuck on the rails. Then you hit a bunch of springs that are in the way that send Sonic to the air, where some enemies appear. Slow motion starts and.... you press the homing button for Sonic to automatically hit the enemies and continue his path.

That was my experience. Press button to win.

 

[OmegaSpirit32X]

What else does the homing attack require from the player?

I haven't played all 3D Sonic games, because i don't give a shit about them. But the few i played were like this: Sonic runs, the camera steers, you correct his position so he doesn't get stuck on the rails. Then you hit a bunch of springs that are in the way that send Sonic to the air, where some enemies appear. Slow motion starts and.... you press the homing button for Sonic to automatically hit the enemies and continue his path.

That was my experience. Press button to win.

with the boost games i could believe you, but the adventure era games like Adventure 1 or 2 are a lot more like the Genesis games just in 3D.

 

[nkarafo]

with the boost games i could believe you, but the adventure era games like Adventure 1 or 2 are a lot more like the Genesis games just in 3D.

I think i'm describing Sonic Generations with modern Sonic levels. That was the last 3D Sonic i played IIRC.

I also remember in Sonic Adventure where you could press the button and Sonic would automatically land on a special pad of some sort. And then press again for the next pad. and again for the next one, etc. But i don't remember how the homing attack worked on that one so i can't comment.

 

[JeremyEtcetera]

MMaRsu , didn't you only play Sonic Adventure 1 and 2? How are you able to judge all 3D games when that's all you've played?

And you got so salty at O OmegaSpirit32X that you made a whole thread for this?

 

[OmegaSpirit32X]

I think i'm describing Sonic Generations with modern Sonic levels. That was the last 3D Sonic i played IIRC.

I also remember in Sonic Adventure where you could press the button and Sonic would automatically land on a special pad of some sort. And then press again for the next pad. and again for the next one, etc. But i don't remember how the homing attack worked on that one so i can't comment.

i think it was less automated and those pad things were like a small part of the levels..

 

[MvCSpiderman]

What else does the homing attack require from the player?

Which I explained to you, but you seem to want to project your limited experience as objective fact instead.

 

[ShadowDurza]

How about instead of speed, we focus on momentum? Getting a running stat before jumping = longer jump, the longer you run while avoiding damage and obstructions the faster you go,maybe spinach on a slope to gain speed quickly. Essentially, speed as a reward for skill.

 

[OmegaSpirit32X]

How about instead of speed, we focus on momentum? Getting a running stat before jumping = longer jump, the longer you run while avoiding damage and obstructions the faster you go,maybe spinach on a slope to gain speed quickly. Essentially, speed as a reward for skill.

yeah i think that's something the Adventure games did too. although it was simplified, i would like a more momentum diversion of the adventure formula.

 

[01011001]

Mario ripoff... ehit's an OK game but not a good Sonic game.

no 3D Sonic game is a good game period.
Lost World is the only, I REPEAT, ONLY 3D Sonic game that has good controls and a good camera.

it also doesn't have all the bullshit semi-on-rails sequences that are only for show, where you run into a loop or down a wall and all it is is a cutscene with added bad controls.

Lost World is the only 3D sonic game that actually works. you have full control at all times with precise character movement. and you have a perfect look at all incoming obstacles because it has a wide and well placed camera angle, which in combination with the cylindrical levels just works amazingly.

here's all the issues the game actually had and why it's still pretty mediocre even tho it's by far the best 3D Sonic:

1: terrible boss fights (which is true for every other 3D Sonic btw)
2: boring characters and world
3: most Wisp abilities suck
4: the game completely fails in teaching you its controls and Sonic's abilities (which is also why almost no reviewers actually knew how the game worked and why they called it "slow". the spindash and how to properly use it to go fast is basically never truly explained anywhere in the game... and you can't do that nowadays where everyone is too braindead to try stuff on their own without handholding galore)

fix these 4 issues and the game would be brilliant

 

[TaroYamada]

Sonic Adventure 1/2 were good for the time, the issue is the franchise never really elevated itself above or beyond them in 3D and they've aged pretty poorly.

Sonic in 2D was a lot more like Mario in 3D (with 64 repping Mario here because obviously there's a lot of differences between 3D Mario entries): flexibility in paths, branching level designs, player choice.

Sonic in 3D became more linear and actually more like Mario in 2D in that it was much more linear with a lot less flexibility in player choice.

I prefer 2D Sonic over 2D Mario, at least on Genesis vs. SNES and realistically I'd take Mania over the New Super Mario Bros. titles. But games like Odyssey just destroy Sonic's 3D entries. Sonic has never come close to being that good in a 3D platforming entry.

 

[OmegaSpirit32X]

no 3D Sonic game is a good game period.
Lost World is the only, I REPEAT, ONLY 3D Sonic game that has good controls and a good camera.

it also doesn't have all the bullshit semi-on-rails sequences that are only for show, where you run into a loop or down a wall and all it is is a cutscene with added bad controls.

Lost World is the only 3D sonic game that actually works. you have full control at all times with precise character movement. and you have a perfect look at all incoming obstacles because it has a wide and well placed camera angle, which in combination with the cylindrical levels just works amazingly.

here's all the issues the game actually had and why it's still pretty mediocre even tho it's by far the best 3D Sonic:

1: terrible boss fights (which is true for every other 3D Sonic btw)
2: boring characters and world
3: most Wisp abilities suck
4: the game completely fails in teaching you its controls and Sonic's abilities (which is also why almost no reviewers actually knew how the game worked and why they called it "slow". the spindash and how to properly use it to go fast is basically never truly explained anywhere in the game... and you can't do that nowadays where everyone is too braindead to try stuff on their own without handholding galore)

fix these 4 issues and the game would be brilliant

>No 3D Sonic game is a good game period
disagree, i think SA1, 2, Heroes, Unleashed and Generations are genuinly good games, and waay better than Lost World.
>Good Controls
SA1 & 2 controlled fine to me, they feel a lot more like how Sonic controlled in 2D, and spamming the spindash or airdash was just more fun, the Speedrunning in Lost World requires less skill, wich makes speedrunning it more boring, plus it still looks slower than the SA games at their fastest, any complaint about that could also be directed at the 2D Games.
>Good Camera
every game at the time had bad cameras, and hell, SA2, Heroes, the Boost Games, even Shadow had functional cameras, and it was rare that the camera got stuck.
>it also doesn't have all the bullshit semi-on-rails sequences that are only for show, where you run into a loop or down a wall and all it is is a cutscene with added bad controls.
firstly you could say that about the classic games with their speedy sections, it's obvious that was an attempt to replicate that feeling plus adding some cinematic flavour to it mixing the speedy segments with the stage transitions from Sonic 3 & Knuckles, stuff like the Whale or Running down buildings was pretty iconic for 3D Sonic, and again a lot of these sections were automated or required simplistic imputs, the boost games made it even easier with the adition of the sidestep and the drift

i do agree with the issues.

 

[YoshiMadness]

Adventure 1 and 2
Heroes
Generations
Colors

Were all good to great. In addition, 2D titles like the Advance trilogy, Rush and Rush Adventure, and Mania are all fantastic as well. The "downfall" of Sonic is greatly exaggerated.

 

[Y0ssarian]

Adventure and Adventure 2 were good

 

[Speedwagon]

IMO 2D Sonic is unplayable and Sonic Adventure is the most fun "retro" game.

 

[GeekyDad]

"Bad" is not equal to "I don't like."

That being said, I never grow old of these particular threads.

 

[rofif]

Better - Sonic has always been bad.
I only liked blast 3d a bit back in the day....

 

[Jacknapes]

I for one prefer 2D Sonic titles over 3D titles, however Sonic Adventure 2, Generations and Colors were pretty decent 3D Sonic games.

 

[Elysion]

I don’t understand why Sega insists on 3d Sonic games being on rails. There are fan games that have shown how a proper 3d Sonic should look and play:





Imo 3d Sonic should be a mix of Mario64 + Tony Hawks + F-Zero, with large open environments to zip around.

 

[Miles708]

I think once you try to constrain an approach like Sonic Utopia inside a proper story level, the limits become to come out. You have to have a lot of "padding" between platforms to account for momentum, and honestly the level design can become quite a lot confusing.

Personally, I'd love to see it for the central hubs/overworld, while having a more contained design for actual levels, like Sonic Adventure. I would also love to give Sonic all kinds of contextual parkour moves, like an hi-speed Mirror's Edge.

 

[Days like these...]

I've been a Sonic fan since the Genesis days and I can authoritatively say Lost Worlds and Heroes are the only good 3d Sonics

 

[Flutta]

With OP on this one. In the battle for video game bad-assery, Sonic the Hedgehog will always stand tall above Mario and his Stalin ‘stache. It’s just sad what Sega has done to him.

 

[cireza]

I don’t understand why Sega insists on 3d Sonic games being on rails. There are fan games that have shown how a proper 3d Sonic should look and play:





Imo 3d Sonic should be a mix of Mario64 + Tony Hawks + F-Zero, with large open environments to zip around.

Sonic Utopia is the kind of horror that I hope we will never get.
Second one is awful as well.

These kinds of physics can absolutely not lead to practical, and interesting, level-design. Fans fail to understand this, while claiming they are doing a better job than a team of professional developers.

 

[Days like these...]

Sonic Utopia is the kind of horror that I hope we will never get.
Second one is awful as well.

These kinds of physics can absolutely not lead to practical, and interesting, level-design. Fans fail to understand this, while claiming they are doing a better job than a team of professional developers.

Is it your position that "on rails press A to win" is any better?

 

[Esppiral]

Id like to see if any of those that voted yes have played more than one 3D Sonic game ...

 

[cireza]

Is it your position that "on rails press A to win" is any better?

No idea, never played such a game.

 

[Days like these...]

No idea, never played such a game.

Don't be disingenuous. That's most of the 3d sonics apart from the ones I've mentioned.

 

[cireza]

Don't be disingenuous. That's most of the 3d sonics apart from the ones I've mentioned.

This shows that you haven't played these games.

 

[Days like these...]

This shows that you haven't played these games.

I played Colors it was pure trash no need to play the rest.

 

[cireza]

I played Colors it was pure trash no need to play the rest.

So you admit that you haven't played the games, yet want to tell us how shit they are and how they play. You sound like a pretty common Sonic hater.

 

[Days like these...]

So you admit that you haven't played the games, yet want to tell us how shit they are and how they play. You sound like a pretty common Sonic hater.

Can you read? I played Colors (along with SA on Dreamcast, Sonic and the Secret rings on the Wii, Heroes and Lost Worlds) it was trash why play more other trash. I love sonic I grew up playing sonic before it became on rails speed boost press A to win trash. If anyone is a hater it's you and people who defend shitty sonic games.

 

[Miles708]

Can you read? I played Colors (along with SA on Dreamcast, Sonic and the Secret rings on the Wii, Heroes and Lost Worlds) it was trash why play more other trash. I love sonic I grew up playing sonic before it became on rails speed boost press A to win trash. If anyone is a hater it's you and people who defend shitty sonic games.

Personally I can agree rush gameplay had its course and can't possibly be expanded further. Sonic Adventure's level design though is much more satisfying to play (basically little patches of explorable terrain linked by high-speed sections and pure platform ones) and i'm always hoping THAT'S what they'll finally expand upon.

 

[bit_blaster]

The 3D games were all pretty lame, I enjoyed Adventure 1 and 2 as a six year old, but they did not hold up as well as Mario 64 or even the Spyro games. I enjoyed Heroes, but I haven't played that since I was ten, but I think I'd hate it now since I only really played it with friends back in the day.

They took Sonic in the wrong direction by giving it a shonen type story with an expanding cast of side characters and melodramatic plotlines. I loved Mania for feeling like it came out of a 1996 time capsule when Sonic was just as simple as every other platformer.

 

[Days like these...]

Personally I can agree rush gameplay had its course and can't possibly be expanded further. Sonic Adventure's level design though is much more satisfying to play (basically little patches of explorable terrain linked by high-speed sections and pure platform ones) and i'm always hoping THAT'S what they'll finally expand upon.

Yeah, SA gets a pass from me because it was the 1st 3d sonic.

 

[Saber]

The 3D games were all pretty lame, I enjoyed Adventure 1 and 2 as a six year old, but they did not hold up as well as Mario 64 or even the Spyro games. I enjoyed Heroes, but I haven't played that since I was ten, but I think I'd hate it now since I only really played it with friends back in the day.

They took Sonic in the wrong direction by giving it a shonen type story with an expanding cast of side characters and melodramatic plotlines. I loved Mania for feeling like it came out of a 1996 time capsule when Sonic was just as simple as every other platformer.

Pretty much resume the Adventure fanboys. They cannot admit Adventure series where just "fair" for its time, but are mediocre experiences overall and an example of bad transition to 3D.

Thats why Mario 64 is used as an example. The game still holds up today because the guys behind it has a vision, they didn't just want to show they were capable of 3D. But Adventure? Its just a game that tried to be different from Mario by presenting a "so cool so edgy" general design and nothing more. It is a failure as a plataformer, one key aspects of Sonic.

 

[bit_blaster]

Pretty much resume the Adventure fanboys. They cannot admit Adventure series where just "fair" for its time, but are mediocre experiences overall and an example of bad transition to 3D.

Thats why Mario 64 is used as an example. The game still holds up today because the guys behind it has a vision, they didn't just want to show they were capable of 3D. But Adventure? Its just a game that tried to be different from Mario by presenting a "so cool so edgy" general design and nothing more. It is a failure as a plataformer, one key aspects of Sonic.

Well said, even though I love the Genesis games, I have to admit that Sonic was always more of a tech demo to show off Sega's technology, his games never had as much heart or care as the Mario games.

 

[SpongebobSquaredance]

The problem of 3D Sonic is a lack of consistency. There is no clear direction, that's why the change so much again and again. Just to think about how many styles there are for 3D-Sonic is telling. They should stay with one style and polish it up to the best level possible. Some 3D Sonic can feel very gimmicky and it hindered the games to become truly great. The werehedgehog levels from Unleashed for example brought an otherwise pretty good game down. So no, I don't agree that 3D Sonic was always bad, just inconsistent.

That being said, the best 3D Sonic game is Sonic Robo Blast 2.


Controls wonderful, fast and responsive, good level design, surprisingly good soundtrack

In general the fanbase constructed some impressive stuff and it shows if Sonic Team evolved and polished one of their styles for 3D-Sonic instead of doing something different every few years, the games would benefit from it.

Another pretty good one is this here:


and they even do their own game now

 

[Syphon Filter]

Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 are amazing.

 

[SpongebobSquaredance]

Can you read? I played Colors (along with SA on Dreamcast, Sonic and the Secret rings on the Wii, Heroes and Lost Worlds) it was trash why play more other trash. I love sonic I grew up playing sonic before it became on rails speed boost press A to win trash. If anyone is a hater it's you and people who defend shitty sonic games.

on rails press A to win? Maybe if you suck at the game, bro.

Pre-Forces Boost Sonic had more to offer than just pressing A.

 

[Days like these...]

on rails press A to win? Maybe if you suck at the game, bro.

Pre-Forces Boost Sonic had more to offer than just pressing A.

Lol that looks horrible.