Because it's about what image and legacy you pass in order to gain trust, 343i has none of that, they are failing for the third time for an acclaimed franchise who deserves better, Halo is likely the only AAA shooter in the market to offer a coop since its inception and its regarded as an important feature in a market that has barely used it, Forge is also another rare feature in games because it let you create your own gamemodes and matches, being F2P with that feature would be a huge plus alongside having TDM and DM in a Battle Royale only dominated market. BF2042 won't have a campaign, but it was always the weakest part of the franchise and instead we are getting an custom gamemode creator alongside legacy content remade for it, hell, had both Halo got right and BF2042, they could have pushed back Call of Duty Vanguard easily.
I hear you, and these are good points. But, I don't think Microsoft or EA have it out with as much bloodlust to "destroy" COD as you may think they do. Of course they want a bigger piece of the FPS market, but they can't leapfrog market and economic realities to do so. Lots of things got thrown off due to COVID, and studios have to make tough choices.
It sucks but that's part of life sometimes. Also there's nothing saying that Vanguard won't self-implode on itself due to its own potential shortcomings (including all of the controversy surrounding its publisher ATM). Very possible COD hurts itself even if Halo Infinite and/or BF2042 don't quite hit at 100% out of the gate.
I know they don't represent the majority of the features, but they are important nonethless and it's awful that Co-OP was promised at launch months ago, and Forge will take much more time to be in than in Halo 5, they need to have this game this time to live up the franchise and it feels like that Microsoft is done with the studio and the IP, as if the ten year plan is pretty much a stopgap because they don't have any interest in Halo 7 while I can understand that we don't need a new game every 3 years, 10 years sound like a long unbeliavable plan like Destiny 1 who also had plenty of issues.
Yeah but the thing is it was Chris Lee who promised co-op at launch, but he's no longer at the studio. I think at the time he left, 343 should've put out some type of statement regarding promises they made at the time being "in-flux". TBH I think they should've said around the time they put out those new screenshots months back that they couldn't guarantee co-op for launch, and gave a reasoning as to why.
But, hey, missed opportunity.
It is good that they won't need to be relying on Halo as they have plenty of new studios, but it is sad that is becoming the 8/10 "Sonic the Hedgehog" of a console brand carrier, it is good, but far from what it was at excellence, and not even its owners care anymore as they have plenty of much better stuff on their hands (like Sega).
COVID is a bitch but they could just have said "we're pushing back a few months because we want to deliver the ultimate experience at the start", with this successful launch, they'd have a huge major positive reception everywhere, they are missing an important component for gamepass and paid owners (coop) and one for the F2P (forge). What the hell happened at 343i is something you don't hear about other XGS studios, no wonder why they are much more keen on marketing Forza Horizon 5 and Psychonauts 2.
Yeah, I think we can safely say 343i are something of a hot mess, even with Staten back, because at the end of the day he's still just one guy that has to work with a good handful of upper-management types and I can guarantee that Chris Lee wasn't the only or even likely the biggest bottleneck on that side of things, some of those actual individuals are probably still at 343i in upper-management positions I'd wager.
There'll probably need to be bigger reformation with upper-management to truly get 343i as a whole back 100% on track. I do understand the SEGA (in particular, Sonic Team) comparison but the situation is a bit different there IMHO; Sonic Team can still put out quality work and do so timely, just look at the recent Phantasy Star Online Universe as an example. It might just be more an issue with IP burnout for them but Sonic Team also have a habit of putting the wrong people into management positions...
...so maybe not all that dissimilar from 343i after all
How about comparing Halo with Halo instead of GOT and TLOU2? Like it doesn't even make sense. Halo is a long-standing franchise already. You would be fine to pay $60 for the campaign of COD too?
GOT multiplayer was surprise-released months after the game came out. Factions was never announced officially. Nobody was expecting those modes at all.
Wow, this is ULTIMATE DENSITY! All three of those are major AAA releases, directly from platform holders, that's why I made the comparison. Are you saying TLOU isn't a long-running franchise? It's been around since 2013, that's longer than some other massive AAA franchises around today.
Also you don't seem to get the GoT MP; it was a "surprise" release but the interval of timing between its release and the original SP content wasn't very long. Enough to easily justify delaying the SP release for when they were ready to drop the MP, going by some of the logic saying Halo Infinite should be delayed to ready co-op and Forge if they're only about six months away after launch.
Factions is basically a kitted-out version of the original MP from TLOU 1, which was included with the original release. Everyone assumed that was going to be the case again for TLOU 2, then ND announced a delay of the MP. Then only after that did they give the reason why. If everyone was okay with them delaying TLOU 2 MP for a revamped MP in Factions that's supposedly expanded enough to be its own game years later, why are some of those folks angry with Halo Infinite co-op and Forge being delayed a few months after launch, when they'll be coming as free updates to those who bought Infinite, and likely greatly expanded (Forge mode anyway) compared to past versions?
What's really changed between those two games to justify reasonable understanding and satisfaction with content delay (and splintering off to a new product altogether) for one of those games coming years after the original release, and all this hostility, rage and disappointment with content delay for the other game that's only a few months after the original release, and coming free for those who bought the original release?
Halo was known for its multiplayer and now that part is F2P with mtx/battlepass instead so now you only pay $60 for the campaign and that's it. How would you call that then?
Democratizing choice for the Halo players that only play MP by not charging them $60 for a single-player campaign they may not've touched? If your argument is that those in for the single-player are getting ripped-off, well the co-op campaign is still coming to them as a free update, and if Hivebusters is anything to go by then additional story campaign DLC will probably be made as free updates to those who purchase the Halo Infinite campaign.
You don't really have anything to stand on for this one bud xD.
I wondered how 343i were gonna drop the ball again. I look forward to co-op and Forge launching broken and in-complete a year after launch, and watching 343i scramble to blame COVID, fans, and supporting so many platforms for all their ills.
That's some pessimistic way to look at things :/
Appreciate the response bro, it was a very soothing and ensuring one that calmed me down some. Seeing those dirty milkers in your avi helped a little too.
I'm going to hope what you're saying is correct because I'm not sure how the design and development goes but leaving out Forge mode is a huge, huge disappointment to me. There's nothing like carefully crafting and pouring in thought and creativity in to a map you want to bring to the table for others to play on and have fun with. I'm hoping they will allow for players to create a Big Team Battle CTF type map because in Halo 4 I tried to do that and there wasn't an easy way to get the result you wanted. I think it actually wasn't built for CTF centered creations because I never was able to get 1Flag and 2Flag and Neutral Flag working. That's going to be the best if they can create an excellent Forge mode for the fans. 6 months for Forge is a long time. Hopefully everything goes well, I want this game to be a massive success but man is it looking shaky. I have no idea what will happen with this game and the future of Halo tbh but I hope the gameplay and the community grows stronger and larger than ever before
It would be great if the community can return to the glory days of Halo 2 and Halo 3 with Halo: infinite. Who knows if it will happen though
Yeah man, all we can do is stay optimistic and hope for a best-case scenario. It's kind of sad though that it's something that has to be hoped for, instead of just an assumed guarantee, but that just shows how much unquestioned trust 343i has lost over the years with even some hardcore Halo fans, let alone others.
Even in the case Halo Infinite is overall a big success and brings things back in a big way, IMO there should be a little more trimming and reorganization of the upper management at 343i. Getting Staten back was a big positive, and while they got Chris Lee out (who was somewhat responsible for some of the issues going on), eyes are still on Bonnie Ross. For me they're also on Matt Booty; he should've kept a tighter leash of quality control and productivity workflow/timeliness on 343i all things considered.
They won't rebuild the game for only Series consoles and PC at this point so I don't see a problem with the XB1 version.
But the talk is real, on all boards, and the negativity snowball is rolling. It's a real bummer after the positive multiplayer talk. Going by past situations Microsoft are listening to the community, so we'll see what they're doing. Maybe they can get all their studios to come in and collaborate and get the content in before launch.
Yeah, I hope this doesn't derail the positivity surrounding the game. Though, again, it's a missed opportunity by MS/343i to take a page from Sony's book. Sony ALWAYS pairs/drowns out potentially bad news with some good news they put the spotlight on, either at the same time or within a day at most (seems like). It's actually a very good strategy to soften the blow of bad news and it works particularly well for them because that "good" news doesn't have to be anything amazing; the gaming press is (rightfully or wrongfully) pretty lenient with them so they'll puff up the good news (if there's any) for all they can.
Once again MS/343i didn't quite do that; this content delay should've been paired with something else, ANYTHING else. A sneak peak of the campaign, an announcement for a new flighting drop, something. I hope they have something really good Halo-related to announce & show off at Gamescom, that'd go a long way to wash away most of the disappointment folks are feeling over the delayed content.
One more thing and I'll try to be as kind as I can but, it's a complete failing on 343i that they can't handle development of their own game without pulling in resources from multiple other teams. Especially true if they'll end up needing to do that AGAIN. Between that and rebuilding the engine, overhauling tons of the graphical quality etc. it feels like they clearly bit off more than they could chew. What in the world convinced them to try pulling off an OPEN-WORLD Halo game on the Xbox ONE?!? That's something they should've saved for a purely next-gen (Series) platform.
Whatever happens from here, from now I think Microsoft are going to scale back budget for 343i immensely, and probably deservedly so, until they can prove they can make Infinite an unquestioned success.
Told you all, this clown knows nothing.
Cut him some slack; totally possible 343i may've decided after the date to revamp co-op & Forge or add in more content & features. That is always something that could've happened.
Although if it did it begs the question: why?
Men_in_Boxes
plausible leak... 
