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[MightySquirrel]

So, you think that in 4-5 years, we will be back to 30fps?

No doubt whatsoever. In 3 years most multiplats on consoels won't have 60fps modes anymore.

edit: heres hoping for PS5 Pro till then.

 

[Optimus Lime]

No doubt whatsoever. In 3 years most multiplats on consoels won't have 60fps modes anymore.

And you're basing this on.... ?

 

[yurinka]

Consoles are the main market of these games, so they are optimized for consoles. Looking at Steam monthly hardware usage, the percentage of PCs more powerful than consoles is almost zero. Most PC people has medium specs and there's a huge range of PC specs, and devs don't have time to highly scale the games and optimize them to every device.

So basically they use their primary device (the best selling console, the current PlayStation) as reference and then they add a few tweaks for higher versions and cut some stuff for smaller versions, focusing more on the majority of players are (medium specs).

The console only games require to waste way less time porting and making sure the game will look ok in all versions, so they can focus on making the game look great on one or two skus, so they can optimize the games way more.

 

[Little Chicken]

The majority of gaming PCs aren't as powerful as a Series X.

This is one reason why I think DF videos should have what hardware they're using and how much is costs in every comparison video.

I

 

[MightySquirrel]

And you're basing this on.... ?

Common sense.

When real next gen games start coming out in 2-3 years PS5 exclusives will only have 30 fps mode by then and multiplat devs won't want to be left far behind in gfx department so 30 fps for those too. [exception being shooter games again]

Lowest end gfx cars right now are on par with next gen consoles. In 3 years multiplat devs will easily be able to comfortably target 2 x ps5 amateur performance cards which will offer 60 fps meaning 30 fps on amateur and hopefully 60 fps mode for ps5 pro.

 

[Optimus Lime]

Common sense.

Or, as most people describe it, 'tales from my ass'. You are talking complete and total shit.

 

[MightySquirrel]

Or, as most people describe it, 'tales from my ass'. You are talking complete and total shit.

Nice rebutal there.

 

[worldwithpyramids]

Have you played Half-Life: Alyx or RDR2 on PC?

 

[Optimus Lime]

Nice rebutal there.

There's nothing to respond to. You're claiming that Sony and Microsoft are going to abandon 60fps gameplay in the next few years, and when I asked for proof you said:

Common sense.

When real next gen games start coming out in 2-3 years PS5 exclusives will only have 30 fps mode by then and multiplat devs won't want to be left far behind in gfx department so 30 fps for those too. [exception being shooter games again]

That is the definition of tales from my ass. Your 'proof' is simply stating a second time that Sony is abandoning 60fps. You're talking drivel.

Find a statement from Sony or Microsoft in which they outline that their commitment to 60fps titles is temporary and will be sunsetted a few years into the generation, or stop posting garbage.

 

[twilo99]

The majority of gaming PCs aren't as powerful as a Series X.

This is one reason why I think DF videos should have what hardware they're using and how much is costs in every comparison video.

I

Spot on.

 

[Topher]

The majority of gaming PCs aren't as powerful as a Series X.

This is one reason why I think DF videos should have what hardware they're using and how much is costs in every comparison video.

I

The majority of consoles are not as powerful as the majority of gaming PCs based on Steam's hardware survey. Either way, console is going to win as far as value for the money. That's a different discussion than which platform provides the best performance.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

Because hardware manufacturers really want people to buy their hardware so they pour money as fuck to first party games look as incredible as they can be

All Consoles come in one configuration so its easier to maximize the performance of a game for that ONE console. Developers have limited budget and time so developing games to take full advantage of the hardware is easier.

PC's come in a thousands different configurations. No developer on earth will have the manpower, time or money to maximize performance and visual flair of a game for PC's of a thousand different configurations.

 

[Damigos]

The answer : Closed system
All PS5s are the same, every single PC is different. So there can no optimization on PCs, at least not like there is optimization on consoles.
Same thing happens to ios and android. There are a total of 5-6-7 different iphone models and about a million different android devices. This is why despite flagship android devices being more powerful, iphones have better benchmarking results.

 

[OsirisBlack]

Because games are almost always developed to first and foremost run on the consoles even if they are primarily developed on PC.

Result is, you can’t get away from certain aesthetics the console version has without massive modding.

A good example is Witcher 3. The first trailer versus what we got is basically because the consoles couldn’t run that version of the game so they kind downgraded it and it affected the PC version.

Star Citizen on the other hand is developed exclusively for the PC and looked excellent dating back to last gen.

It’s makes me think of how heartbreaking it must be to have a vision, see these programmers and developers create something spectacular on their high end rigs, then having to optimize and degrade until they reach 30 fps. It must happen, cause it’s so often what we get compared to the first footage shown, is a lot of the time clearly downgraded.

Someone who knows more about game development correct me if I’m wrong. Some prime examples are the Witcher 3 and Final Fantasy 15.

Why not just release these versions 2 years later for super high end PC?

I swear I hate when people bring up star citizen its the most over hyped anything ever. I have a literal best you can buy rig and yes the game looks good but there are many, many games that look better artistically and even technically. The best thing about SC is the micro detail and there are console games approaching that level right now. I had a 2080ti when FFXV came out and have upgraded since then. FFXV is still one of the best looking games on PC when played maxed out with the High Quality assets turned on. Hair FX Ground FX the game is pretty intense and a serious vram hog but if you can do it at native 4k and still hit 60 plus Effpiss its worth it.

On topic Someone above me nailed it. Console is a closed platform and you don't have to worry about all of the numerous variables especially if youre only dealing with making a game for a single platform. If I am playing FFXV, RDR2, Doom Eternal, Cyberpunk 2077 or Metro enhanced on my 3090 and someone else is playing it on their 1060 their is a very stark difference in performance. You get the same performance across the board on every single series X or PS5.

 

[killatopak]

I swear I hate when people bring up star citizen its the most over hyped anything ever. I have a literal best you can buy rig and yes the game looks good but there are many, many games that look better artistically and even technically. The best thing about SC is the micro detail and there are console games approaching that level right now. I had a 2080ti when FFXV came out and have upgraded since then. FFXV is still one of the best looking games on PC when played maxed out with the High Quality assets turned on. Hair FX Ground FX the game is pretty intense and a serious vram hog but if you can do it at native 4k and still hit 60 plus Effpiss its worth it.

On topic Someone above me nailed it. Console is a closed platform and you don't have to worry about all of the numerous variables especially if youre only dealing with making a game for a single platform. If I am playing FFXV, RDR2, Doom Eternal, Cyberpunk 2077 or Metro enhanced on my 3090 and someone else is playing it on their 1060 their is a very stark difference in performance. You get the same performance across the board on every single series X or PS5.

I'm not saying it's the best artistically or even technically. What astounds me is the scale and accuracy. It had Todd Howard beat. See that planet? You can go there. What it proved that there are gameplay limitations that couldn't be done on the consoles at the time due to technical reasons that wouldn't be present had it been developed solely for the PC.

Can it be done on this generations of consoles? Quite possibly. The point is consoles are a shackle to what the best PC gaming has to offer either due to budget, sales or business reasons. The only way for PC gaming to move forward is to wait for consoles to move forward as well until we hit the next set of roadblocks that PC can force it's way to but the consoles can't until it's upgraded again for next gen. It's basically a cycle at this point.

I'm only talking about games that push the graphics forward though. Some games do intentionally have a lower graphics bar in order to make room for the multitude of lower specification PCs as what's the point of making a good looking game if only a handful is able to play them. What are consoles nowadays but lower spec PCs? I mentioned Witcher 3 because that's exactly what happened. Consoles affecting the look of the entire game for PC players. Without mods, what you're just getting on PC is just things that would make it look better but isn't fundamentally different from what console players get. Watchdogs anyone?

You don't even have to specifically look at PC vs consoles here as last gen consoles affect current gen as well as seen from cross gen games between the PS3/360 gen to PS4/One gen where there are gameplay differences from each version ranging from maximum player count to lighting what type of material to destructability. FFXIV literally had to cut the PS3 versions cause it couldn't handle the expansions and qol updates to the game. Smaller maps before the cut which the director directly stated was a PS3 limitation. All of these benefits the overall look and feel of the game.

 

[ZeroZeroQuatre]

PCs are more powerful than consoles, sure. But how many ?
A look at the Steam hardware stats can be very interesting.

This is your average PC :

Nothing really mind-blowing actually.

How about RTX 3080 ?

Yeah.

Hardware enthusiasts do exist and we might be biased into thinking that they are the majority, but reality shows otherwise.
Thus devs have to take the safest road in most cases, and a very conservative approach regarding the hardware that will be relevant by the time their games release : they can only speculate about what the PC specs will look like in 1 or 2 years - but they for sure know what the console specs will be.
And this probably sweats through the entire development of the game.

Source :
https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

 

[packy34]

Which PC exclusive AAA games are you referring to? Which PC game, developed for the PC, has better graphics than TLOU2 or Demon's Souls?

Why does being exclusive to the platform matter? PC versions of third party games blow other versions away in terms of fidelity and frame rate.

Even Sony games look and run better on PC - Horizon, Days Gone, Death Stranding (this one even has that sweet, sweet DLSS). This thread is weird.

 

[Inviusx]

High end PC gaming is way more niche than console gaming. That being said some games would have been better received if they were PC exclusive at launch, like Cyberpunk.

 

[martino]

You are a by-product of gaming being too expensive and publishers wanting to squeeze more money out of games.
But hey, you usually never buy games at full price, right?
So it even out the lack of developer effort.

You need to look more GDC data and you less be confident about your huge bias... You'll grow.

The PC is the favorite platform for video game developers

The annual Game Developers Conference survey takes stock of the video game industry by polling thousands of developers. 58% of developers say they prefer the

www.hebergementwebs.com

Average console spec will still be ps4 for 3 years . It's not sure atm there are less pc more or equally powerful than console. Most game will scale down and work on lesser than console hardware on pc. MOST hardware that sell and will be sold will play next gen games. This average talk is not going to go the way people want if applied to console too or if you try to estimate numbers not in % (pc hardware count over billion) .

 

[Fredrik]

Yeah, that really doesn't make any sense. And I have to point out that there is a very good reason why multiplat visual comparisons between consoles blatantly leave PC out of the conversation every single time. All that "Another One" chest-pounding would look pretty silly.

Lol very true. Plus, we all love Sony 1st party but it’s naive to think Microsoft won’t even come close with their console exclusives this gen, and the reality is that every single impressive XSX title MS 1st party make is going to look and run even better on PC.

 

[mxbison]

Can't optimize a game for high end system since most people don't have those. Average gaming pc is probably a 1060/1070 right now.

The "games being held back by old hardware" is pretty much the standard case for PC games.

That said, Cyberpunk 2077 is the best looking game I've played.

 

[Optimus Lime]

Why does being exclusive to the platform matter? PC versions of third party games blow other versions away in terms of fidelity and frame rate.

Even Sony games look and run better on PC - Horizon, Days Gone, Death Stranding (this one even has that sweet, sweet DLSS). This thread is weird.

Why wouldn't it? There's an interesting conversation to be had regarding why Sony systems have games with the graphics that they do, while the PC has basically no AAA dedicated development anymore.

PC versions of third party games blow other versions away? Sometimes. Sometimes they don't. I deeply regret buying RE: Village on PC. The PCMR take that all PCs run all games all better all the time is horseshit, and really comes out of newer PC gamers looking for ePenis to wave.

 

[Stuart360]

PCs are more powerful than consoles, sure. But how many ?
A look at the Steam hardware stats can be very interesting.

This is your average PC :

Nothing really mind-blowing actually.

How about RTX 3080 ?

Yeah.

Hardware enthusiasts do exist and we might be biased into thinking that they are the majority, but reality shows otherwise.
Thus devs have to take the safest road in most cases, and a very conservative approach regarding the hardware that will be relevant by the time their games release : they can only speculate about what the PC specs will look like in 1 or 2 years - but they for sure know what the console specs will be.
And this probably sweats through the entire development of the game.

Source :
https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

Yeah and how many of those PC's beat XB1 and PS4?. Its alright console users dragging out Steam stats when new consoles have just launched, and gpu's are incredibly hard to find (and many PC gamers skipped the 20 Series cards for the 30 series, and yeah they are stuck).
Bring the Steam stats out in another couple of years and see where we are.

As for the question, its simple. No one owns PC, like with Sony and Microsoft, so no one is bankrolling mega budget PC exclusives.
Still PC will run those games better when they come to PC.
Also this question is subjective to me. I own both HZD and Days Gone on PC, and both let me down a touch graphically after the hype. The PC version of AC Odyssey maxed out looks better than both, and lets not even talk about the likes of RDR2 on PC.

 

[Stuart360]

Can't optimize a game for high end system since most people don't have those. Average gaming pc is probably a 1060/1070 right now.

The "games being held back by old hardware" is pretty much the standard case for PC games.

That said, Cyberpunk 2077 is the best looking game I've played.

A 1060 and 1070 are more powerful than the OneX, the 'most powerful console ever' until 6 months ago.

 

[Fafalada]

The point is consoles are a shackle to what the best PC gaming has to offer either due to budget, sales or business reasons.

Actually that's the reverse. The reason those high budget games exist at all is the console market. PC is its own shackle - true pc exclusives do still happen but reality is - they just look worse.

 

[TonyK]

Because Naughty Dog.

 

[Optimus Lime]

Yeah and how many of those PC's beat XB1 and PS4?. Its alright console users dragging out Steam stats when new consoles have just launched, and gpu's are incredibly hard to find (and many PC gamers skipped the 20 Series cards for the 30 series, and yeah they are stuck).
Bring the Steam stats out in another couple of years and see where we are.

As for the question, its simple. No one owns PC, like with Sony and Microsoft, so no one is bankrolling mega budget PC exclusives.
Still PC will run those games better when they come to PC.
Also this question is subjective to me. I own both HZD and Days Gone on PC, and both let me down a touch graphically after the hype. The PC version of AC Odyssey maxed out looks better than both, and lets not even talk about the likes of RDR2 on PC.

The PC version of AC Odyssey is also an unoptimised technical mess, so let's not rewrite history.

 

[Stuart360]

The PC version of AC Odyssey is also an unoptimised technical mess, so let's not rewrite history.

Whats that got to do with how it looks?, besides it really isnt, its demanding yes but maxing out shows why its demanding.
The problem is a lot of you judge gamess by the console versions.

 

[TheKratos]

PC doesn't get many triple A exclusives, if any at all..

 

[Optimus Lime]

Whats that got to do with how it looks?, besides it really isnt, its demanding yes but maxing out shows why its demanding.
The problem is a lot of you judge gamess by the console versions.

AC Odyssey had serious technical issues that are well documented, with horrendous performance and massive FPS dips. Hand waving that to prove some weird point is just stupidity.

 

[Stuart360]

PC doesn't get many triple A exclusives, if any at all..

Well why would a mulitplatform studio makes a game just for PC? (yes i know Star Citizen before someone says it). Like i said, no one owns PC so PC doesnt have a Sony or Microsoft bankrolling AAA exclusives for it.
It has more AA and Indie games than anywhere else though.

 

[Optimus Lime]

Well why would a mulitplatform studio makes a game just for PC? (yes i know Star Citizen before someone says it). Like i said, no one owns PC so PC doesnt have a Sony or Microsoft bankrolling AAA exclusives for it.
It has more AA and Indie games than anywhere else though.

You're really, really young, aren't you?

 

[Kataploom]

We have 8 currently supported consoles right now, which one exactly?

 

[Stuart360]

AC Odyssey had serious technical issues that are well documented, with horrendous performance and massive FPS dips. Hand waving that to prove some weird point is just stupidity.

Again what does any of that have to do with how Odyssey LOOKS?. And my 'mid range' PC can max it at 1080p/60. Its had a lot of patches over the years. Whats stupid is saying what you're saying when the console vesions ran at 30fps with low to medium settings.

 

[Stuart360]

You're really, really young, aren't you?

No, but please explain.

 

[Optimus Lime]

Again what does any of that have to do with how Odyssey LOOKS?. And my 'mid range' PC can max it at 1080p/60. Its had a lot of patches over the years. Whats stupid is saying what you're saying when the console vesions ran at 30fps with low to medium settings.

So, your argument in response to the question 'why do consoles always have the best looking games' is to name an unoptimised PC port with massive frame drops, running at 1080p, while screeching about how it 'looks'?

Do you SERIOUSLY believe that Assassin's Creed Odyssey, running at 1080p, is a better looking game than TLOU2 on a PS5? I mean, is that really the argument you're trying to make?

 

[LMJ]

So here's the thing, you can absolutely choose to aim for high end PCs and just shoot for a smaller audience (high end PC, not console gaming) Crysis did this and no console could come close until THIS gen lol

Star Citizen is aiming for the same thing and already looks amazing and again likely won't be matched until a gen or 2 from now due to the very nature of high end PC gaming (always being upgradable) P.Cs will ALWAYS look better than consoles on a technical level barring human error (batman Arkam Knight IE)

So what console makers do is often cleverly find ways to make games look amazing with the limited tech, Ratchet and Clank RA is no different cleverly using the portals to hide a incredibly short load time, but also make the load seem smooth as opposed to jarring and strange (if everything just changed around you)

That's why console games can look so good

By focusing on the strengths the weakness are less apparent and make a game shine

 

[Stuart360]

So, your argument in response to the question 'why do consoles always have the best looking games' is to name an unoptimised PC port with massive frame drops, running at 1080p, while screeching about how it 'looks'?

Do you SERIOUSLY believe that Assassin's Creed Odyssey, running at 1080p, is a better looking game than TLOU2 on a PS5? I mean, is that really the argument you're trying to make?

Er when did i say that?

 

[Optimus Lime]

No, but please explain.

PC gaming had successful and lucrative PC-specific development for many years- in the AAA space. The collapse of big budget, mainstream, commercial PC game development is a relatively recent occurence.

So, 'why would a studio make a game just for the PC?'. To make a lot of money. That money is no longer there.

 

[Optimus Lime]

Er when did i say that?

You're the one bringing up Assassin's Creed Odyssey. You DO understand what this thread is about, right?

 

[hemo memo]

Not all PC's are more powerful than consoles, people need to stop talking about PC as if it's a fixed platform. Console devs can focus on a specific set of specs, they don't have to worry about making the game run on dozes if not hundreds of configurations.

Pretty much. The majority of PCs are weaker than consoles. It is truly this:

 

[Stuart360]

PC gaming had successful and lucrative PC-specific development for many years- in the AAA space. The collapse of big budget, mainstream, commercial PC game development is a relatively recent occurence.

So, 'why would a studio make a game just for the PC?'. To make a lot of money. That money is no longer there.

I'm talking about now, with game budgets spiralling out of control.
Its not the 90's anymnore with the DOOMS and Quakes, etc. You're not going to get any multiplatform AAA games developed soley for PC, like you dont get them soley fo console, outside of first party.

 

[Stuart360]

You're the one bringing up Assassin's Creed Odyssey. You DO understand what this thread is about, right?

So you tired to twist my words eh. I said HZD and Days Gone, 2 games that have been hyped over their graphics. They didnt impress me really on PC, and that was running them at higher settings too.
Console gamers judge games on how they look on console. Thats why many PC gamers find these conversations funny. And also why said games come to PC, they are always better.

 

[Optimus Lime]

So you tired to twist my words eh. I said HZD and Days Gone, 2 games that have been hyped over their graphics. They didnt impress me really on PC, and that was running them at higher settings too.
Console gamers judge games on how they look on console. Thats why many PC gamers find these conversations funny. And also why said games come to PC, they are always better.

... are you drunk?

 

[killatopak]

Actually that's the reverse. The reason those high budget games exist at all is the console market. PC is its own shackle - true pc exclusives do still happen but reality is - they just look worse.

That falls under budget, sales or business reasons. The shackles I’m referring to are technical but these are all monetary. I also answered that in the next paragraph where it is intentionally technically worse due to the same thing. Budget, sales or business decisions. PC exclusives still exists but I doubt a lot if any falls under AAA. It’s something that’s never gonna be rid of unless sales on PC are a great majority and average PC specs are a lot higher than what the consoles have to offer.

 

[Stuart360]

... are you drunk?

Hey if you dont want to discuss with me, dont reply to my posts.

 

[Optimus Lime]

Hey if you dont want to discuss with me, dont reply to my posts.

You're right. I shouldn't have replied. I'm sorry, but I find you stupid and irritating. You have that combination of arrogance and dumbness that makes it impossible to have a reasonable conversation with. You have a good day, though.

 

[Stuart360]

You're right. I shouldn't have replied. I'm sorry, but I find you stupid and irritating. You have that combination of arrogance and dumbness that makes it impossible to have a reasonable conversation with. You have a good day, though.

Er i think your replies came off worse, i was trying to have a discussion and you came back with numerous tiresome quips.

 

[Topher]

PCs are more powerful than consoles, sure. But how many ?
A look at the Steam hardware stats can be very interesting.

This is your average PC :

Nothing really mind-blowing actually.

How about RTX 3080 ?

Yeah.

Hardware enthusiasts do exist and we might be biased into thinking that they are the majority, but reality shows otherwise.
Thus devs have to take the safest road in most cases, and a very conservative approach regarding the hardware that will be relevant by the time their games release : they can only speculate about what the PC specs will look like in 1 or 2 years - but they for sure know what the console specs will be.
And this probably sweats through the entire development of the game.

Source :
https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

Breakdown the Xbox/PlayStation console landscape as well then.

PS4 110k
PS5 8k
XB1 55k
XS X|S 6k
Total: 179k

Guessing on the Xbox numbers but being off a couple of thousand doesn't really make a difference. So PS5 has about 4.4% of the market. XS X|S has 3.3%. Combine the GPUs on Steam that are comparable or superior to those (2080, 2080S, 2080Ti, 3060, 3070, 3080) and that is about 4.5% of the PCs in the survey.

You keep adding up all the GPUs on that list that are superior than last gen consoles and you've got the majority of Steam.

Pretty much. The majority of PCs are weaker than consoles. It is truly this:

Uh....sure, if you think comparing the majority of PCs against the minority of consoles is a valid comparison.

 

[carlosrox]

Not all PC's are more powerful than consoles, people need to stop talking about PC as if it's a fixed platform. Console devs can focus on a specific set of specs, they don't have to worry about making the game run on dozes if not hundreds of configurations.

100% this.

Blows my mind that people try to act as if you just go and buy a PC and everyone has the same experience or something, or that it just works lol.