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[skneogaf]

I assume the development team have a reasonable explanation as to why its not in the full game and all of which very few of us would be able to understand.

I've never found the reflections to be bad in horizon games so I'll be interested to see the difference in forza vista mode to compare.

Hopefully full ray tracing can be added to future titles like horizon but Im more than sure there will be some in the motorsport series.

Also ray tracing is a little bit low resolution on the bit I saw on gran turismo so if it were that low then I'm okay without.

Hopefully all car games can figure out a way to have ray tracing reflections done properly, same thing with global illumination and shadows etc.

Oh and this will have dolby atmos again but I'd like to hear ray tracing audio in a car game!

 

[silent head]

So I wonder what the Xbox One version is going to run at? It must have some serious cutbacks in other areas I presume.

 

[tusharngf]

Optimizing RT GI (im guessing its GI and reflections they are using) for an open world game with dynamic weather and a bunch of cars on screen would be an absolute bitch.....on an actual racetrack it would be alot easier....things are much more "controlled" they will figure it out eventually, we might get an RT Enhanced mode down the line.
Theyve already given us new Volumetrics pushing the game further would have a host of PC players crying "this game isnt optimized" when in fact the max spec is just beyond what their hardware can handle.

I dont think your 3070 will be enough

<--- Cries in 3070 because this card probably wont last long even at 1440p.
Ada Lovelace better come with the heat im expecting the Ada xx70 to blow the 3080ti outta the water.

i got 3070 because 3080 wasnt avalaible. Will get another when nvidia releases something powerful.

 

[SlimySnake]

I'm sure fanboys will find a way to make fun of that (already seen it in the reveal thread), but I see no problem. RT is awesome but so are a lot of other things and doing RT in an open world racer must be a really difficult thing to achieve. Maybe they're improving the engine to feature RT in future games of the series.

By the way, it looks incredible for their first nextgen Horizon.

+1. I said this in the reveal thread but what are you even going to use RT reflections on in an open world game set in the forests, mountains and sahara? Same reason why I am ok with Horizon Forbidden West leaving RT reflections out in favor of enhanced graphics. Leave RT reflections to city racers like NFS underground and urban open worlds like Spiderman.

We finally have games with photorealistic vistas and people are worried about RT reflections.

 

[Raonak]

Quite unfortunate considering how impressive RT was on a crossgen game like Spiderman.

It's odd to have it only for the vista mode. Feels like the hardware should be able to do it during gameplay.

But then again a game focused on rural locations doesn't really need many rejections.

 

[jose4gg]

Both the announce video and gameplay one are 4K60 for me:




I checked it frame by frame and every frame is unique so it really is running at 60fps afaik, its not just the video or anything like that.

Does the video says its running in XSX?

 

[Fredrik]

Both the announce video and gameplay one are 4K60 for me:




I checked it frame by frame and every frame is unique so it really is running at 60fps afaik, its not just the video or anything like that.

You’re sure? Then it’s my phone. Or I’ve been too spoiled by higher fps that 60fps now seems to stutter

 

[Kuranghi]

You’re sure? Then it’s my phone. Or I’ve been too spoiled by higher fps that 60fps now seems to stutter

 

[xrnzaaas]

Don't care about RT, but I do hope that it won't look significantly worse in the 60fps performance mode. That should be a standard on XSX imo instead of "going back" to 30fps gaming.

 

[Negotiator101]

I'm sure it's a time limiting factor rather than the hardware.

I think it's more down to it being open world and being ridiculously detailed and of course its native 4k.

 

[FlyyGOD]

People are really expecting gpu taxing ray tracing in an open world highly detailed racing game or is it concern trolling in full effect?

 

[Fredrik]

That stutters on my end… But let me compare with Driveclub just to see that I haven’t lost my mind here
Edit: lol okay Driveclub definitely looked worse

 

[Turk1993]

+1. I said this in the reveal thread but what are you even going to use RT reflections on in an open world game set in the forests, mountains and sahara? Same reason why I am ok with Horizon Forbidden West leaving RT reflections out in favor of enhanced graphics. Leave RT reflections to city racers like NFS underground and urban open worlds like Spiderman.

We finally have games with photorealistic vistas and people are worried about RT reflections.

It would been nice you know to make it even more future proof, its the last mising part. But really when the game looks this good and the reflection they showed where also really good looking so can't really complain. Also there is no single open world game with dynamic time of day and weather with this scale and graphics that use ray tracing. They need to cut something and they choose ray tracing as its the biggest performance killer.

 

[jose4gg]

People are really expecting gpu taxing ray tracing in an open world highly detailed racing game or is it concern trolling in full effect?

No, people were expecting modes like SpiderMan or Ratchet, or at least 4k60, especially after "30FPS is bad" flooded Twitter after the Horizon state of play.

 

[Fbh]

The visuals looked stunning though, if they can get it to 1440p and 60FPS on Series X it will still look fantastic.

 

[MDSLKTR]

A shame about no RT, lack of car on car reflections is the only thing that busts the presentation for me.

 

[Black_Stride]

i got 3070 because 3080 wasnt avalaible. Will get another when nvidia releases something powerful.

A 3080 or 3080Ti (oddly they are the same price in MEA).
Might be able to pull off 4K60 Horizon 5 with openworld RT.

But realistically im just waiting for RTX 4070.
I think these consoles came with too much heat and devs are already pushing current gen Graphics cards to the limit at 1440/2160 resolutions.

Im hoping Ada Lovelace is late 2022 so I can have the comfortable feeling I had when playing games at 1080p on a 1070, 770, 570, 260c, 8800GTS, 6800GS......scalpers be damned.

Right now I feel like by this time next year my 3070 wont be enough to "max out" games at 1440p let alone trying to play at 4K.

 

[Turk1993]

No, people were expecting modes like SpiderMan or Ratchet, or at least 4k60, especially after "30FPS is bad" flooded Twitter after the Horizon state of play.

You can play this 8k60 whats the problem?

 

[Reindeer]

This and Ratchet have the most crisp visuals I've seen yet.

 

[Dr Bass]

People are really expecting gpu taxing ray tracing in an open world highly detailed racing game or is it concern trolling in full effect?

I think it's genuine surprise and disappointment. After seeing ray tracing in full effect on other games, I don't know why you wouldn't want it here.

And after all the talk of the 52 CU's and how the extra cores equate to much better ray tracing ... where is it? I don't think this is more demanding than any other kind of game.

I think Forza Horizon looks really good, but it certainly doesn't look photo realistic, but it has a style of realism. And it's such a sparse looking world when you're driving. I just don't see why you couldn't have it ...

I just see a bunch of excuses rolling in about it, while also calling it "easily" or "by far" the best looking game ever made. Based on what I've seen in other areas, I don't see how these things match up. I'll just say there are instances of ray tracing in other games that are incredibly impressive.

So no, not concern trolling. It should be better. I bet the next mainline Forza has it.

 

[DaGwaphics]

I would be shocked if they can run that at 1080p/30 on the original Xbox One console no matter what other settings are dialled down. I suspect a dynamic 720p which can drop even lower in demanding scenes.

They have traditionally gotten Forza out the door at 1080p on OG Xbox, so drops below 720p seem out of line. I would just expect the world to lose quite a bit of detail, I would not expect to see those individual needles on the cacti. You can never discount the fact that Forza 4 looks damn beautiful even on the old VCR.

I don't give a shit what techniques were used to achieve the final result, the trailer looks stunning regardless.

 

[Reindeer]

I think it's genuine surprise and disappointment. After seeing ray tracing in full effect on other games, I don't know why you wouldn't want it here.

And after all the talk of the 52 CU's and how the extra cores equate to much better ray tracing ... where is it? I don't think this is more demanding than any other kind of game.

I think Forza Horizon looks really good, but it certainly doesn't look photo realistic, but it has a style of realism. And it's such a sparse looking world when you're driving. I just don't see why you couldn't have it ...

I just see a bunch of excuses rolling in about it, while also calling it "easily" or "by far" the best looking game ever made. Based on what I've seen in other areas, I don't see how these things match up. I'll just say there are instances of ray tracing in other games that are incredibly impressive.

So no, not concern trolling. It should be better. I bet the next mainline Forza has it.

I'm sure RT will be on PC, those that want it can play the game there.

 

[Black_Stride]

A shame about no RT, lack of car on car reflections is the only thing that busts the presentation for me.

Reflecting and/or lighting a fully dynamic world like Horizon games have with a bunch of cars on screen would be a tall order for a "firstgen" nextgen title.
Motorsport likely can handle it because a race track is alot more controlled than all the crazy shit that happens in Horizon games.

Maybe an Enhanced RT mode down the road that only reflects cars and only on the hero car.

 

[Hezekiah]

Should 60fps standard. 30fps in any racing game nowadays is ridiculous.

 

[Warnen]

hey at least it’s visual and not tagging it for sound or some shit.

 

[Turk1993]

I think it's genuine surprise and disappointment. After seeing ray tracing in full effect on other games, I don't know why you wouldn't want it here.

And after all the talk of the 52 CU's and how the extra cores equate to much better ray tracing ... where is it? I don't think this is more demanding than any other kind of game.

I think Forza Horizon looks really good, but it certainly doesn't look photo realistic, but it has a style of realism. And it's such a sparse looking world when you're driving. I just don't see why you couldn't have it ...

I just see a bunch of excuses rolling in about it, while also calling it "easily" or "by far" the best looking game ever made. Based on what I've seen in other areas, I don't see how these things match up. I'll just say there are instances of ray tracing in other games that are incredibly impressive.

So no, not concern trolling. It should be better. I bet the next mainline Forza has it.

This is what i don't get, how is this not looking photorealistic and what game that looks close to this uses ray tracing? They use photogrammetry and actual photo's with color scanning tools to match the real thing. No game is gonna look 24/7 real, the start of each gameplay segment looked incredible realistic wich was all gameplay.

 

[SlimySnake]

It would been nice you know to make it even more future proof, its the last mising part. But really when the game looks this good and the reflection they showed where also really good looking so can't really complain. Also there is no single open world game with dynamic time of day and weather with this scale and graphics that use ray tracing. They need to cut something and they choose ray tracing as its the biggest performance killer.

Yep. In fact a better use of ray tracing would be to use ray traced GI for dynamic time of day and weather lighting changes. Reflections arent the only use of RT.

 

[MadPanda]

I can understand why there isn't raytracing, but it being 30 fps after Fh4 at 60 is a bummer. Yeah, I understand this looks much better, but maybe they could've gone with some reconstruction method. I'm sure it's going play great no matter what, but that's what I would've liked.

 

[Turk1993]

Yep. In fact a better use of ray tracing would be to use ray traced GI for dynamic time of day and weather lighting changes. Reflections arent the only use of RT.

They have baked GI that refreshes every min or something in game i think, it was like that in Forza Horizon 4. But only for the environments and only for the light from the sun. I can't imagin how it would look with GI and RT reflections. Turn 10 is gonna use GI and RT reflection in Motorsport, curious how they gonna pull it off.

 

[GHG]

FS 2020 has RT (AFAIK) on Series X, similar 4K/30 target for the non-Performance mode.

At the same time though they are (I believe) two different engines and different engines might handle this stuff...differently. In any case I don't think FH5 is hurting for RT at all; tbh I think the best-looking games out right now or coming relatively soon feature very little if any RT in their "visual showcase" profile modes.

The only exceptions to that are Rift Apart and FS 2020, the latter after getting RT in a later update.

No RT for Flight sim and nothing announced for a future RT update. Quite frankly, it doesn't need it either.

 

[DeepEnigma]

No RT for Flight sim and nothing announced for a future RT update. Quite frankly, it doesn't need it either.

Yep. Not everything has to have RT. It's nice when used, but approximates and rasterization techniques are pretty damned close and great nowadays.

 

[FlyyGOD]

No, people were expecting modes like SpiderMan or Ratchet, or at least 4k60, especially after "30FPS is bad" flooded Twitter after the Horizon state of play.

Are those 4k or checkered board 4k?

 

[UnNamed]

This comparison makes me angry every time I see it.
Forza Horizon 2 on X360 is not shit because the original game is too heavy, but only because it is a shitty port. Even The Crew on X360 have more geometry than this, not counting NfS Rivals, Most Wanted and TDU2.

 

[Three]

+1. I said this in the reveal thread but what are you even going to use RT reflections on in an open world game set in the forests, mountains and sahara? Same reason why I am ok with Horizon Forbidden West leaving RT reflections out in favor of enhanced graphics. Leave RT reflections to city racers like NFS underground and urban open worlds like Spiderman.

The very simple answer is the car. The main attraction of the game. The fact that it doesn't have it is a complete mystery. The always visible main visual porn of the game is a shiny metal and glass model and there is no RT? Bad call if you ask me.

 

[killatopak]

+1. I said this in the reveal thread but what are you even going to use RT reflections on in an open world game set in the forests, mountains and sahara? Same reason why I am ok with Horizon Forbidden West leaving RT reflections out in favor of enhanced graphics. Leave RT reflections to city racers like NFS underground and urban open worlds like Spiderman.

We finally have games with photorealistic vistas and people are worried about RT reflections.

The car? It’s a pretty big shiny object front and center.

 

[AGRacing]

It would have been smarter to just not mention RT rather than say "photo mode only"...

That being said... from reading the thread I don't think people understand that a reflection is redrawing the game world from the perspective of that reflection itself. You can draw a less detailed version of it.... but you're still drawing it twice for 2 perspectives. Then you factor in what needs to be reflecting...

A)the car itself
B)the other cars you're racing against
C)the mirrors on each car
D)the water
E)any glass building or reflective structure in the environment

And then suddenly you're in a scene where you need to draw the game world 9 times from 9 different perspectives in a single frame.

You draw them at various resolutions and detail levels but that is still an extremely tall order. I'm not sure even sure how Gran Turismo or Forza Motorsport will pull it off.

 

[THE DUCK]

He said this right in the video yesterday. I don't care personally, still looks fantastic.

 

[Calverz]

I assume the development team have a reasonable explanation as to why its not in the full game and all of which very few of us would be able to understand.

I've never found the reflections to be bad in horizon games so I'll be interested to see the difference in forza vista mode to compare.

Hopefully full ray tracing can be added to future titles like horizon but Im more than sure there will be some in the motorsport series.

Also ray tracing is a little bit low resolution on the bit I saw on gran turismo so if it were that low then I'm okay without.

Hopefully all car games can figure out a way to have ray tracing reflections done properly, same thing with global illumination and shadows etc.

Oh and this will have dolby atmos again but I'd like to hear ray tracing audio in a car game!

Very simple answer. It’s open world with a dynamically changing weather system and emergent gameplay. It’s not like gran turismo or forza where it’s fixed tracks and set weather etc.

 

[godhandiscen]

Cut back to 30fps for 4k in XSX??

Okay yeah no wonder this looked so impressive.

 

[TrebleShot]

Just curious why they didn’t announce a PERF RT mode like insomniac, devs seem talented enough and the power is there.

1440p RT PERF with DRS no worries.
Looks great without it, Demons souls did just fine without RT I think this will too.

 

[skneogaf]

Forza horizon games have always launched at 30fps I believe so they're just keeping with tradition.

Horizon 4 had a 60fps mode just like this one does so again.. Traditional.

Now that some have mentioned it, I don't believe ray traced reflections are needed as it's Mexico so glass isn't likely the main material on buildings.

Maybe forza horizon 6 Japan will have ray tracing as more than likely they will feature a lot of city lights and reflective materials like glass.


I think Mexico will be a great location and they said it has different weather conditions depending on where you are on the map so hopefully no more weeks of snow etc

 

[mckmas8808]

Not saying last gen is the issue, but one wonders if any of this would be different if they didn't have to program for the Xbox One.

 

[Three]

Very simple answer. It’s open world with a dynamically changing weather system and emergent gameplay. It’s not like gran turismo or forza where it’s fixed tracks and set weather etc.

Why do people who don't know what RT is keep making these claims?

Actual RT HELPS with dynamic whether in this case.
GT Sport uses a baked 'ray tracing' lightning system called IRIS which is what prevents it from having dynamic whether. This gens RT is meant to prevent this baking and make dynamic weather possible, not hinder it.

 

[Stuart360]

There were numerous people in the conference thread that thought it was ray tracing on the cars in the gameplay demonstration. All 4 guys on 'Dropped Frames' thought it was RT. If its hard to tell if it is or isnt RT, does it really matter. Its like talk about nitpicking when a game looks this good.

Also RT seems to becoming yet another tedious console war bullet point lately.

Just let it go.

 

[AdjudicatorHead]

They have traditionally gotten Forza out the door at 1080p on OG Xbox, so drops below 720p seem out of line. I would just expect the world to lose quite a bit of detail, I would not expect to see those individual needles on the cacti. You can never discount the fact that Forza 4 looks damn beautiful even on the old VCR.

I don't give a shit what techniques were used to achieve the final result, the trailer looks stunning regardless.

Traditionally, yes. But traditionally, the One X was running at 4K30 and One S at 1080/30. Here, we have the Series X running it at 4K30, a vastly superior console to the One X. We have the Series S running it at 1080/30, a vastly superior console to the One S. That makes me very very sceptical that they can get it to run 1080/30 on One S.

 

[Julius Ibidus]

i think it looks really, really nice, great job by the devs.

also, here's my take on Sony fans reacting to it:

 

[itsjustJEFF]

From what I've seen it still looks damn great. I guess during night races it would add a lot and maybe reflections? But, then you're going very very fast... so would you even see it? Maybe RT shadows? RT lighting? Those are all things right? I know I've heard of RT audio.

I will say that RT is very nice feature. I really hope that it becomes more a standard going forward, give me less resolution for more frames and RT! Performance RT is the way to good, I think. But, in all honesty I only noticed it after switching between performance vs performance RT on Ratchet. If I didn't have them switch back and forth... idk if I would have noticed

 

[itsjustJEFF]

Wait the footage from yesterday's show wasn't ray traced? It definitely looked ray traced, or did they use some super clever reflection solution?

I didn't know either, but I might just not be very tech savvy when it comes to graphics kind of stuff. I still thought it looked great and is currently the best looking racing game.

 

[Elbow Identity Shallow]

Wait, where are people getting 30fps from? Surely not on the Series X?

 

[Diddy X]

RT is a waste of resources confirmed for the 99999rd time