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[Spidey Fan]

Welcome to arguing with Bernd. Where he passes his opinion as fact and then doubles down on it without any evidence.

Passing digital revenue off as profitable for gamepass isn’t fact either, since that covers all purchases on Xbox store including dlc irrelevant of gamepass.

If you want gamepass profit, look at the sub count. That wouldn't have increased if it weren't profitable. Ea wouldn't have been on gamepass.

And gamepass counts as digital revenues in case you dont know. Unlike psnow, you can buy the dlc, the games, mtx. Those attribute to increased digital revenue. But I doubt you will care about it. Since you really don't see gamepass as service, where you can buy things like digital stuff.

 

[Shelookdlvl18]

First link is 2021, Im not just quoting Aaron in the 2nd link. Not sure if the link has showed up.
Heavily reinvesting from and probably investing from other Xbox profits and doesn’t mean Gamepass is profiting, close to or will do.

Maybe eventually everything becomes streaming, but doesn't it will carry on with this model.
Its a good deal and maybe Nintendo and Playstation will do the same with 1st party or maybe its profitable enough and they wont.

Part of me would be interested but I like own certain games, and depends on price.

It's not very often I see someone contradict themselves so thoroughly. So congrats for that I guess.

You're repeatedly saying that nobody has said GP is profitable. In your quote above, you make sure to clearly define that line of being profitable by saying that "doesn't mean Gamepass is profiting, close to, or will do".

The main source is apparently Aaron Greenberg, and you so kindly provided a link as well.

Its not profitable. Not sure what you’re on about

https://segmentnext.com/2021/05/06/xbox-game-pass-profits/

Xbox Game Pass "not a big profit" explains Xbox's Aaron Greenberg

Microsoft’s video game subscription service Xbox Game Pass may be a fantastic value for money offer for Xbox gamers, but many have wondered where the profit is for Microsoft. Unsurprisingly, there isn’t much. Speaking on an episode of the What’s Good Games podcast, Xbox marketing general...

mspoweruser.com

The thing that impresses me most is your header for the link. That's bold. To claim something with such certainty, only to immediately provide a link that clearly states otherwise. Convincing? No, not in the slightest. Bold? Absolutely.

Remember, you clearly defined it.
"Profiting"
"Close to"
"Or will do"
If the words in the link itself "Gamepass not a big profit" weren't clear enough, your trusty source Greenberg reiterates it in the article with "Xbox marketing general manager Aaron Greenberg explained that, while the subscription service isn’t extremely profitable"

"Isn't extremely profitable" and "not a big profit" obviously doesn't mean what you think it does, because it means that while it's not "a big" profit or "extremely profitable".... That it is indeed profitable.

You've been all over this page screaming to anyone who will listen, that it's absolutely not profitable despite your very own source saying otherwise. Now why don't you trod off somewhere else to so miserably argue that point.

 

[Clear]

Had the PC version at xmas for £1. Unsubbed after a week or two.

I like the idea but downloading games (even at 80meg) and having my ssd crowded just to try games was not worth it.

If they had a stream option to try the games rather than going through the ball ache above would make me return.

This is the secret of GP. Most people won't play that many different games over the lifetime of their subscription. They are paying for the idea more so than the actuality.

I mean if you actually stop to examine the figures purported by the OP, it doesn't indicate that big of a change in behaviour.

20% more time playing... so rather than 2hrs a day average it goes to 2hr 25mins a day or thereabouts.
30% more games.... So 4 games over the period they'd usually consume 3. One of which is likely to be something that's a "palate cleanser" (40% more genres is a bit of a weird metric).

Bottom line is where it gets funny: They end up spending 20% more apparently. Which is an exact match for value expressed as spend per hour of play-time! Kinda' pokes a hole in the whole "best value in gaming" narrative.

So, by the terms of the article it improves engagement somewhat, and that's it. Its not triggering a massive increase in activity, all its actually doing for most users is getting them to dabble with a game or two more than they'd normally do, mostly at the expense of spending less time on any single thing.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Welcome to arguing with Bernd. Where he passes his opinion as fact and then doubles down on it without any evidence.

Passing digital revenue off as profitable for gamepass isn’t fact either, since that covers all purchases on Xbox store including dlc irrelevant of gamepass.

You never said you wanted proof. I mostly argue in good faith

This is without hardware, so subtract a billion or so.

 

[Spidey Fan]

This is the secret of GP. Most people won't play that many different games over the lifetime of their subscription. They are paying for the idea more so than the actuality.

I mean if you actually stop to examine the figures purported by the OP, it doesn't indicate that big of a change in behaviour.

20% more time playing... so rather than 2hrs a day average it goes to 2hr 25mins a day or thereabouts.
30% more games.... So 4 games over the period they'd usually consume 3. One of which is likely to be something that's a "palate cleanser" (40% more genres is a bit of a weird metric).

Bottom line is where it gets funny: They end up spending 20% more apparently. Which is an exact match for value expressed as spend per hour of play-time! Kinda' pokes a hole in the whole "best value in gaming" narrative.

So, by the terms of the article it improves engagement somewhat, and that's it. Its not triggering a massive increase in activity, all its actually doing for most users is getting them to dabble with a game or two more than they'd normally do, mostly at the expense of spending less time on any single thing.

The funniest part is this engagement, without real 1st party xbox games. Now with bethesda, and Xbox studios, those stats will be cranked to highest level.

Imagine starfield drops this year. And avowed next year. How many rpg fans do you think will go for the service. Considering there is also hell blade, and fable next year after that. While you also have other 3rd party who has exclusive deals like returnal. 180$ for 3 first party games from them, while the rest is free (first party dont leave, except forza, which gets delisted).

Game pass as of now, while is great, is lacking those bad boys. And most people who will benefit are those who are less financial. 60$ while is alot, is 4 month gamepass. But in reality, 15$ is like buying speedway coffee for 2 weeks. That is more affordable to them, compared to 60$ at once. You will own forever, but you have will to buy them forever. In my case, I would rather not spend 60$ at once. I can spend 45$ with something else during that month (Hulu, netflix, buying pizza or save them). I buy 2 years when they are bundled with dlc (spiderman with all dlc for 20$ this year).

I will see this service explode more with college students. Series S with gamepass for them is going to be huge value for them. Unless they are needy with 4k stuff.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

This is the secret of GP. Most people won't play that many different games over the lifetime of their subscription. They are paying for the idea more so than the actuality.

I mean if you actually stop to examine the figures purported by the OP, it doesn't indicate that big of a change in behaviour.

20% more time playing... so rather than 2hrs a day average it goes to 2hr 25mins a day or thereabouts.
30% more games.... So 4 games over the period they'd usually consume 3. One of which is likely to be something that's a "palate cleanser" (40% more genres is a bit of a weird metric).

Bottom line is where it gets funny: They end up spending 20% more apparently. Which is an exact match for value expressed as spend per hour of play-time! Kinda' pokes a hole in the whole "best value in gaming" narrative.

So, by the terms of the article it improves engagement somewhat, and that's it. Its not triggering a massive increase in activity, all its actually doing for most users is getting them to dabble with a game or two more than they'd normally do, mostly at the expense of spending less time on any single thing.

You don't get more than what you paid for with gamepass (arguably).

You finish a game per month on gamepass, that costs $15, it would've cost similar amount if purchased on sale.

What you do get is options. Play whatever genre, game you want. Or try out new stuff. It's liberating.

With a game purchase you are stuck with it.

But you get to keep it so there is pros/cons to everything.

 

[Kokoloko85]

It's not very often I see someone contradict themselves so thoroughly. So congrats for that I guess.

You're repeatedly saying that nobody has said GP is profitable. In your quote above, you make sure to clearly define that line of being profitable by saying that "doesn't mean Gamepass is profiting, close to, or will do".

The main source is apparently Aaron Greenberg, and you so kindly provided a link as well.


The thing that impresses me most is your header for the link. That's bold. To claim something with such certainty, only to immediately provide a link that clearly states otherwise. Convincing? No, not in the slightest. Bold? Absolutely.

Remember, you clearly defined it.
"Profiting"
"Close to"
"Or will do"
If the words in the link itself "Gamepass not a big profit" weren't clear enough, your trusty source Greenberg reiterates it in the article with "Xbox marketing general manager Aaron Greenberg explained that, while the subscription service isn’t extremely profitable"

"Isn't extremely profitable" and "not a big profit" obviously doesn't mean what you think it does, because it means that while it's not "a big" profit or "extremely profitable".... That it is indeed profitable.

You've been all over this page screaming to anyone who will listen, that it's absolutely not profitable despite your very own source saying otherwise. Now why don't you trod off somewhere else to so miserably argue that point.

Did not read.
Theres no proof its profitable. Why dont you start with that instead of all that writing lol

 

[Spidey Fan]

You don't get more than what you paid for with gamepass (arguably).

You finish a game per month on gamepass, that costs $15, it would've cost similar amount if purchased on sale.

What you do get is options. Play whatever genre, game you want. Or try out new stuff. It's liberating.

With a game purchase you are stuck with it.

But you get to keep it so there is pros/cons to everything.

You get more, if what you bought is cyberpunk2077 (bought it 50$ on stadia (got chrome cast and controller free). Bought it again on my pc. Run like garbage. 20-30 fps on mid setting. 40 fps on low settings at 1080p. Game looked horrible with old TV static screen. Stadia was running fine. While I get to roam city, other things were lifeless. Game looked dead, but beautiful on stadia, while dead and horrible on my pc (gog at 30$ from a key seller).

My pc can run rd2 with high settings at 39 to crispy. looks cripsy. Snow is clearly and looks real. I can run doom eternal at high settings. Nightmare mode needs more video ram.

Both has their issues. But value wise, one is neglectful, while other you are stuck with something you cant sell it (hype made me buy it, since story was good).

 

[Clear]

Said it before, going to say it again. GamePass is notionally a fine idea, but I worry about its long-term implications for games going forward.

Not keen on the idea of burning through content in order to satiate dabblers and people with low attention spans. Its demeaning creatively because it doesn't really showcase lesser titles, it presents them as fillers and diversions from whatever is being spotlighted on the service that month. This simply commoditizes, not builds appreciation.

Furthermore it devalues the product materially because it creates an impression that buying digitally/retail is a weaker value-proposition. It makes impulse-buying seem counterintuitive.

Most importantly as the service increasingly fills with well-promoted first-party offerings the gap between the haves-and-have-nots in terms of revenue generation is going to grow more stark. MS will always be on the upside of the equation but for individual creators/publishers the risk is going grow more severe, especially if MS opt to change their buy-in price formulation as the service grows. This phenomenon has been well documented over time with streaming music/video.

Lastly, in response to the above point, developers will need to employ risk-mitigation strategies of their own within their product. Typically via MTX or GaaS style second-tier monetization, resulting in the typical nature of the games changing to support those models.

We've seen how this works within the F2P and mobile space. Look at smartphone game charts now compared to pre-2010... The result is smaller devs getting pushed to the wall by corporate producers who are willing to spend massive amounts to create a positive first impression in terms of production value, heavily market/promote at launch to capture mindshare, and then recoup their investment long-term through aggressive GaaS style monetization.

Not good for the scene imho. Not good at all.

 

[Spidey Fan]

Said it before, going to say it again. GamePass is notionally a fine idea, but I worry about its long-term implications for games going forward.

Not keen on the idea of burning through content in order to satiate dabblers and people with low attention spans. Its demeaning creatively because it doesn't really showcase lesser titles, it presents them as fillers and diversions from whatever is being spotlighted on the service that month. This simply commoditizes, not builds appreciation.

Furthermore it devalues the product materially because it creates an impression that buying digitally/retail is a weaker value-proposition. It makes impulse-buying seem counterintuitive.

Most importantly as the service increasingly fills with well-promoted first-party offerings the gap between the haves-and-have-nots in terms of revenue generation is going to grow more stark. MS will always be on the upside of the equation but for individual creators/publishers the risk is going grow more severe, especially if MS opt to change their buy-in price formulation as the service grows. This phenomenon has been well documented over time with streaming music/video.

Lastly, in response to the above point, developers will need to employ risk-mitigation strategies of their own within their product. Typically via MTX or GaaS style second-tier monetization, resulting in the typical nature of the games changing to support those models.

We've seen how this works within the F2P and mobile space. Look at smartphone game charts now compared to pre-2010... The result is smaller devs getting pushed to the wall by corporate producers who are willing to spend massive amounts to create a positive first impression in terms of production value, heavily market/promote at launch to capture mindshare, and then recoup their investment long-term through aggressive GaaS style monetization.

Not good for the scene imho. Not good at all.

Every game is useless. What matters is perspective. I have no idea why developers waste their talents doing cringy eastern games. But their is audience for them. Fifa, call of duty, battlefield are all stupid. They all follow simple formula, yet millions people play it.

People like something different. I hate fifa, cod. But I play fifa despite it. Why, because it's nature of competitiveness. You wont know something, unless you tried it. I have 70% win rate in fifa ultimate squad battle. But I lose vs players, because I am playing the game with other like a chess. Looking for any openings they can get on me.

Gamepass allows the freedom of creativity. When you have insane amount of people in a sub, you are guaranteed to find audience for your game. You dont to follow a formula to make your game a success.

Before devs joined gamepass, they had to hope their game was a hit. Or at least find a group who likes it. With many pool of games in the industry now, its hard for these games to find audience. Gamepass allows them to find it.

Your best example, among us. Was worthless game before it become popular. Now its famous game. Because twitch found it. Rocket league was found ps+. Same fall guys.

So gamepass don't make games bad. It allows more creativity and connect games to gamers.

 

[CAB_Life]

I bought every Yakuza game released so far, despite them all releasing Day 1 on GamePass. I just want to "have" them forever, not to mention you get a discounted price. Supporting these types of games from Sega on Xbox is just the icing on the cake.

You're still supporting them when you play them on Gamepass, since your engagement is reflected in the metrics for that title and if it's anything like Kindle or Netflix or similar media rental services, the developers are getting royalties too.

 

[Clear]

You're still supporting them when you play them on Gamepass, since your engagement is reflected in the metrics for that title and if it's anything like Kindle or Netflix or similar media rental services, the developers are getting royalties too.

You don't know that. And taking royalty-based payments is riskier than taking a one-off lump sum.

When all's said and done, its still a storefront. And in any storefront you're at the mercy of discovery and the algorithms that underpin it. And the situation gets worse as the proportion of self-owned (by the service provider) and partnered/spotlighted content increases.

The situation as it stands now will not be the same in 5 years time, irrespective of the subscription numbers.

 

[DarkMage619]

Atm its not profitable. Maybe in the future but depends on how much they are spending, especially with more expensive studios under there banner now


No of course not. Just not sustainable for the future if it carries on being unprofitable. Especially if more game studios will rely on it in the future

How do you know what is sustainable for MS especially since you don't even know how much it costs them to run?

If something looks to good to be true, its probably too good to be true. Which could mean a higher subscription in the future, games being removed or less games or whatever. Gamepass does sound good though, I rarely have the patience to finish games.

And? If Game pass price skyrockets or if it drops its games or if it gives you cancer people will unsubscribe and that will be the end of the service. It still doesn't change that it's the best deal in gaming and if you have to invent 'what ifs' to downplay it says way more about you than the service.

 

[mejin]

We have the 2019 Xbox numbers, and Gamepass has grown a lot since then. There's no reason to believe it's not profitable.

People who have access to data told it is not profitable like Mat Piscatella.

 

[Spidey Fan]

You don't know that. And taking royalty-based payments is riskier than taking a one-off lump sum.

When all's said and done, its still a storefront. And in any storefront you're at the mercy of discovery and the algorithms that underpin it. And the situation gets worse as the proportion of self-owned (by the service provider) and partnered/spotlighted content increases.

The situation as it stands now will not be the same in 5 years time, irrespective of the subscription numbers.

Selling game is riskier than taking a royalty. With royalty, you have up paid front, unlike game sales (avengers game vs outriders).

The dev will get paid by Microsoft first. That is recouping the cost at upfront. After that, the devs gets paid per played. Then he also gets paid from the sales of the game (outrider, mlb hit top 10 of xbox sales). You also need to consider the devs who have dlc and mtx on their games. All these are potential sales for the devs, compared to the regular sales.

The biggest one is advertising. Outriders got the benefit of free advertising, same for mlb. No one paid that much attention to mlb coming to xbox, until it hit day 1 gamepass, and made uproar in internet. Xbox gamepass advertise them on Twitter, YouTubers share them on their channels. Twitch players play them.

Saw a guy who got tons of YouTube subs just by playing gamepass games, since people are very interested in them.

 

[Spidey Fan]

People who have access to data told it is not profitable like Mat Piscatella.

They really won't understand it. They think that a sub which grew from 8m to 10m in a year isn't profitable. Its like the new 10m income means nothing to them. They still count it as netflix, and majority of people only do 1$ deals.

 

[Alan Wake]

Who buys free games?

I buy the games I want in my collection, like Forza Horizon 4, despite it being on Game Pass. If it's on Game Pass I can wait until the price drops somewhat before I buy (although I didn't with FH4, lol).

 

[Spidey Fan]

I buy the games I want in my collection, like Forza Horizon 4, despite it being on Game Pass. If it's on Game Pass I can wait until the price drops somewhat before I buy (although I didn't with FH4, lol).

I bought the eldersrolls online with 4 expansion pack on sale for 22$. Despite the base game being on xbox gamepass. For pc, I have it on steam with 3 expansion. Its my most played mmo.

 

[Gafito]

I paid gamepass 3 month for 1 dollar and is expensive. I cant believe that after a year i still cant download flight simulator. I have never saw worst thing than paying for game u cant download. I know im not the only one and mixrosoft never fixed it. I will never pay for gamepass ever again.

 

[Spauldingxx]

Something not mentioned and likely not fully understood yet, is the effect of gamepass on the used game market.

Previously I would only buy and sell used games since I hated paying full price. Microsoft and Devs didn’t see any of that money. Now I am paying $5 (on average with the deals) a month for gamepass. So for the past three years MS has made $180 on me when it would have been $0. Eventuality I will be paying full price and likely keep gamepass.

I’m sure there are others doing the same thing. Easy money for MS and Devs that they wouldn’t have gotten before.

 

[Spidey Fan]

I paid gamepass 3 month for 1 dollar and is expensive. I cant believe that after a year i still cant download flight simulator. I have never saw worst thing than paying for game u cant download. I know im not the only one and mixrosoft never fixed it. I will never pay for gamepass ever again.

What was the issue? I downloaded flight Simulator on Radeon rx570.

Are you having system issues?

 

[FatKingBallman]

It's profitable. Not sure what you're on about.

Xbox was profitable in 2019. They added Zenimax since then as an expense, but Gamepass also grew by something like 10m subscribers. It's profitable.

We have the 2019 Xbox numbers, and Gamepass has grown a lot since then. There's no reason to believe it's not profitable.

The first link is Tom Warren speculating. With the 2019 Xbox numbers I mean actual numbers Microsoft had to provide in court. This also goes against Tom Warren's argument that Microsoft would've told the shareholders if there was a profit. Xbox was profitable in 2019 and yet Microsoft kept it to themselves.

Microsoft shares Xbox revenue but not profits. That's why everyone is speculating. They had to release profits in court in 2019 though. They were redacted but someone fucked up and showed them on a different document. It was 2.2b dollars, excluding hardware.

Tom Warren can't speculate if he publicly said on Twitter that GP isn't profitable yet. Otherwise someone from MS would corrected him. GP for now is in growth. GP is still in its growing phase.

Yeah, Xbone sales grew few times, but there's no reason to believe it's not profitable., yet, MS said on court that they never sold Xbox console at profit. Ever :/

 

[Spidey Fan]

Tom Warren can't speculate if he publicly said on Twitter that GP isn't profitable yet. Otherwise someone from MS would corrected him. GP for now is in growth. GP is still in its growing phase.

Yeah, Xbone sales grew few times, but there's no reason to believe it's not profitable., yet, MS said on court that they never sold Xbox console at profit. Ever :/

Hardware are sold at loss. X1x was a powerful console, with pretty much new hardwares. Unlike the ps4 pro. Xbox seems to focus more about power, that it doesn't care if it loses on sales or not. Xsx is mid tier pc. I still don't know why they do it like that. Why not release hardware like switch, and make money on that one, along side the other 2.

 

[CatLady]

Did not read.
Theres no proof its profitable. Why dont you start with that instead of all that writing lol

Based on your previous posts in this and other threads you don't strike me as someone that would be an avid Game Pass purchaser or even an Xbox buyer, so why do you care so very much about whether or not Game Pass makes a profit?

I AM an avid consumer of Game Pass and couldn't care less whether or not it makes a profit. I simply intend to enjoy it as long as it's there for me and others to enjoy.

 

[John Wick]

GP was profitable from day one. That's why MS shows the figures in such depth and clarity that there can be no argument about it. Just as MS releases figures for Xbox division/hardware every quarter to clearly show the profibility......
How could Tom Warren(Pro Xbox journalist) possibly know or conclude that GP isn't profitable???
For idiots who haven't figured it out yet there is a reason why the Xbox division is grouped together with other stuff. It's to manipulate the numbers.....

 

[Spidey Fan]

GP was profitable from day one. That's why MS shows the figures in such depth and clarity that there can be no argument about it. Just as MS releases figures for Xbox division/hardware every quarter to clearly show the profibility......
How could Tom Warren(Pro Xbox journalist) possibly know or conclude that GP isn't profitable???
For idiots who haven't figured it out yet there is a reason why the Xbox division is grouped together with other stuff. It's to manipulate the numbers.....

there is no manipulation. Xbox doesnt make money on hardware, only on the service. gamepass or normal game sales is same. It isnt like ps+ or psnow. If you get gamepass ultimate, you are part of the xbox live. compared to the psnow and ps+ which are 2 different service. also, you get to keep the games for ps+, while psnow cant let you buy it (unless you really go to the store, and look at games psnow logo. only difference on xbox, is subs player count.

but at the end of the day, xbox survived with little games exclusive, compared to the other consoles output. the fact that console is alive, and not get dream casted is a miracle.

we will see once their first party out drops, about the numbers of gamepass subs. if numbers drop, the service isnt profitable. but if number goes higher and higher, there is profit. but those goes back to the service for more games day1 or other service (uplay+, one can hope).

 

[Dlacy13g]

Gamepass promotes exploration of games one may not normally try and subsequently gets purchases for long term ownership.

 

[MrS]

but at the end of the day, xbox survived with little games exclusive, compared to the other consoles output. the fact that console is alive, and not get dream casted is a miracle.

It's not 'a miracle'. It's because it is subsidised by the 2nd richest company in the world. There is nothing miraculous about it.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I AM an avid consumer of Game Pass and couldn't care less whether or not it makes a profit. I simply intend to enjoy it as long as it's there for me and others to enjoy.

Totally.

If making profits is so important where's all the people ragging on Amazon who lost tons of money for the first 15 years of existence. Amazon didn't start making big profits till maybe 10 years ago (too lazy to check). They were losing tons of money at the beginning.

Didn't seem to matter to people as it's the go-to online shop for stuff, so as long as they enjoy buying product making Amazon lose money, it's fits their narrative as a good business running at a loss.

But for anti-MS console warriors, something like GP which they will never use is bad as it's probably running at a loss (reasonable assumption).

I'd like to see how many products they use where the company they buy from is losing money. For example Spotify has never made a nickel of profit. Yet I bet tons of people dont care because they use the product.

 

[Spidey Fan]

It's not 'a miracle'. It's because it is subsidised by the 2nd richest company in the world. There is nothing miraculous about it.

Its miracle, because that company could have just shut it down. Look at Google. Stadia is hanging on thread now. No matter how rich company you are, if your sub division dont make money, you will can them. Its how business works.

And the only thing that saved it, is the potential games have on long term.

Look at minecraft. Its not a game anymore. It educational system, plus a game. And only happened, because they saw the potential. If it wasn't that, it will have been Playstation and Nintendo, with pc.

 

[Spidey Fan]

Totally.

If making profits is so important where's all the people ragging on Amazon who lost tons of money for the first 15 years of existence. Amazon didn't start making big profits till maybe 10 years ago (too lazy to check). They were losing tons of money at the beginning.

Didn't seem to matter to people as it's the go-to online shop for stuff, so as long as they enjoy buying product making Amazon lose money, it's fits their narrative as a good business running at a loss.

But for anti-MS console warriors, something like GP which they will never use is bad as it's probably running at a loss (reasonable assumption).

I'd like to see how many products they use where the company they buy from is losing money. For example Spotify has never made a nickel of profit. Yet I bet tons of people dont care because they use the product.

Isnt amazon still at a loss? Last time I heard it was operating at a loss, while it's cloud server were bringing tons of money. Despite that, they still reached their goal.

Amazon now is behemoth, compared to when it started. I could see gamepass become like Amazon. They just need those 1st party games now.

If they hit 50m subs, that is day1 cod in my eyes. No way Activision, ea and ubisoft will ignore those massive wallets that are on gamepass. More mtx/dlc sales for them.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

It's not 'a miracle'. It's because it is subsidised by the 2nd richest company in the world. There is nothing miraculous about it.

That's the benefit of being a big rich company. Corporate coffers can cover anything.

Same goes for Sony. Their TV division lost something like $10 billion over 10 years way back. But they kept going because their other divisions did decent enough to cover it. Every Sony Bravia someone bought during those bad years lead to more losses. I don't think any tv buyers cared. They just want a decent tv.

On the other hand, some TV makers called it quits or scaled back TVs because they couldnt afford to keep losing.... Pioneer, Panasonic etc.... They dont even sell Panasonic TVs in Canada anymore.

 

[FrankWza]

Based on your previous posts in this and other threads you don't strike me as someone that would be an avid Game Pass purchaser or even an Xbox buyer, so why do you care so very much about whether or not Game Pass makes a profit?

I AM an avid consumer of Game Pass and couldn't care less whether or not it makes a profit. I simply intend to enjoy it as long as it's there for me and others to enjoy.

There’s a games pass ot for all the “avid” users and debunkers. If there’s going to be an insistence on creating threads about rumors and speculation, despite being told not to, then they should be open to anyone who wishes to comment.
It’s not profitable. It’s funded by the parent company to make up for years of poor output. Absolutely enjoy it. If you had an xbox one, especially from day one, one could argue you’re owed that much and helped subsidize this. If you never had an xbox, and can now join for $1 for 3 years, then you really made out like a bandit.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Isnt amazon still at a loss? Last time I heard it was operating at a loss, while it's cloud server were bringing tons of money. Despite that, they still reached their goal.

Amazon now is behemoth, compared to when it started. I could see gamepass become like Amazon. They just need those 1st party games now.

If they hit 50m subs, that is day1 cod in my eyes. No way Activision, ea and ubisoft will ignore those massive wallets that are on gamepass. More mtx/dlc sales for them.

Could be.

I know they make profit, but don't know the split between their traditional goods and cloud/web services.

 

[elliot5]

There’s a games pass ot for all the “avid” users and debunkers. If there’s going to be an insistence on creating threads about rumors and speculation, despite being told not to, then they should be open to anyone who wishes to comment.
It’s not profitable. It’s funded by the parent company to make up for years of poor output. Absolutely enjoy it. If you had an xbox one, especially from day one, one could argue you’re owed that much and helped subsidize this. If you never had an xbox, and can now join for $1 for 3 years, then you really made out like a bandit.

If you've never had an xbox you're not getting $1 for 3 years. You're getting at minimum like $121 for 3 years, which is still good gaming the system, but it's not $1. One way or another you're putting down a larger upfront chunk to secure that conversion for 3 years.

 

[Spidey Fan]

That's the benefit of being a big rich company. Corporate coffers can cover anything.

Same goes for Sony. Their TV division lost something like $10 billion over 10 years way back. But they kept going because their other divisions did decent enough to cover it.

On the other hand, some TV makers called it quits or scaled back TVs because they couldnt afford to keep losing.... Pioneer, Panasonic etc.... They dont even sell Panasonic TVs in Canada anymore.

Old tvs are dead. These days its smart tvs. Unless you have $$$$$ money, making smart TV is expensive, compared to the traditional TV.

I only buy smart TV, since I am kinda lazy doing the smart box or other stuff. Sadly, went back to old TV (horrible quality at 1080p), and gave me nice Vizio 1080p to my little sister.

 

[Markio128]

Jesus, these gamepass threads are pure nob rot.

 

[Spidey Fan]

If you've never had an xbox you're not getting $1 for 3 years. You're getting at minimum like $121 for 3 years, which is still good gaming the system, but it's not $1. One way or another you're putting down a larger upfront chunk to secure that conversion for 3 years.

That is what I am baffled. People think you spend 1$ on it easily. To play xbox mp, you need xlive. That 60$ a month. 3 years is 180. You just paid 180$ upfront. If 1m do that, that is $181m upfront.

And those are people who buy xbox to play 1st party or mulitplat games. So, they pay even more money to buy those games.

Xbox just secured itself 1m people who stay with them for 3 years. All they need is to squeeze money from them for these 3 years, by releasing games that need dlc for full experience. Its a win for them.

 

[Spidey Fan]

Jesus, these gamepass threads are pure nob rot.

Sir, can you heat this for me?. I am hungry.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

That is what I am baffled. People think you spend 1$ on it easily. To play xbox mp, you need xlive. That 60$ a month. 3 years is 180. You just paid 180$ upfront. If 1m do that, that is $181m upfront.

And those are people who buy xbox to play 1st party or mulitplat games. So, they pay even more money to buy those games.

Xbox just secured itself 1m people who stay with them for 3 years. All they need is to squeeze money from them for these 3 years, by releasing games that need dlc for full experience. Its a win for them.

Lots of people buy Gold anyway, so that is a sunk cost. So for me (and many others), all it took was an extra $1 to upgrade to GP Ultimate.

I got a free Ecobee thermostat with installation from the city when they did a green initiative thing years ago. The cost is $0. The cost isn't the price of my home + $0. I'm already here with mortgage payments.

Now if someone out there is crazy enough to purposely buy a new house just so they can get a free Ecobee unit (which costs $180 at Costco), then ya I guess the cost of the Ecobee is $1 million dollars.

 

[Jigsaah]

> Other people saying they feel like they don't own it if it's just on Game Pass. So they buy it! That, to me, seems crazy!

probably because it is - let's not forget that "fan" is short for "fanatic".



yes, that's a viable business model. Like launching TES VI huge open-world in the service for free and all the side-missions and main campaigns as DLC - later collected as a single ultimate edition for PS5 release...

Hey they might actually do it. If they do I think that's great. Not everybody can buy both consoles and I personally don't think they should be out of an opportunity to play such an iconic franchise.

That's why I really like that Xbox is releasing all their exclusives on PC and that Sony is slowly following suit. I couldn't finish HZD on PS4...just lost interest, but it plays so much better on PC that I'm definitely gonna finish it this time. I think it'll be the same for me with Uncharted 4 as wel. I have it on PS4, got kinda far...but I was a PC guy when I finally bought it on PS4 so again, just lost interest.

I think some of it has to do with the controller. I just never really enjoy playing on a DS4. PC allows me to play SOny games on M&KB or an Xbox controller, though I do prefer DS4 for some game genres, like fighting games, for example.

 

[Spidey Fan]

Lots of people buy Gold anyway, so that is a sunk cost. So for me (and many others), all it took was an extra $1 to upgrade to GP Ultimate.

I got a free Ecobee thermostat with installation from the city when they did a green initiative thing years ago. The cost is $0. The cost isn't the price of my home + $0. I'm already here with mortgage payments.

Now if someone out there is crazy enough to purposely buy a new house just so they can get a free Ecobee unit (which costs $180 at Costco), then ya I guess the cost of the Ecobee is $1 million dollars.

The insane deal lies on the xcloud. I feel that thing will have a big shake up, once it's out of beta, and has xsx blades.

Pc is another market, that is unpredictable. As pc player, I love nothing more than free games. Certified epic player with tons of free games.

If it hits on steam, well say good bye to 50m. You are seeing road to 100m.

I think I talked more about this gamepass. My family isn't rich, and I have to help them. We are big family. Gamepass kinda covers Xbox 1st party games for me. So I sniff for Playstation deals for their exclusive (spiderman all dlc was 20$ which was a steal for me). Honestly, I couldn't be more happier for Microsoft to have this kinda of service. Since they have the wallet for it.

 

[FrankWza]

If you've never had an xbox you're not getting $1 for 3 years. You're getting at minimum like $121 for 3 years, which is still good gaming the system, but it's not $1. One way or another you're putting down a larger upfront chunk to secure that conversion for 3 years.

You’re paying for gold. Are you going to devalue a bunch of games that are bundled with gamepass by removing their online component? You need to have it. I keep reading how xbox is the place for multiplayer games. That’s why they attempted to raise the price a few months back before they buckled and delayed it.

 

[Spidey Fan]

Hey they might actually do it. If they do I think that's great. Not everybody can buy both consoles and I personally don't think they should be out of an opportunity to play such an iconic franchise.

That's why I really like that Xbox is releasing all their exclusives on PC and that Sony is slowly following suit. I couldn't finish HZD on PS4...just lost interest, but it plays so much better on PC that I'm definitely gonna finish it this time. I think it'll be the same for me with Uncharted 4 as wel. I have it on PS4, got kinda far...but I was a PC guy when I finally bought it on PS4 so again, just lost interest.

I think some of it has to do with the controller. I just never really enjoy playing on a DS4. PC allows me to play SOny games on M&KB or an Xbox controller, though I do prefer DS4 for some game genres, like fighting games, for example.

it isnt viable business for them. plus elder scrolls is mainly pc. PlayStation never kept it alive. pc did with mods. as for those who dont have xbox, their is xcloud (phone pc), steam, or gamepass pc. the choice is there. if they kinda released on ps5, they will lose future gamepass subs.

I dont like it, but i kinda get it. Spiderman is a great game. but since sony (not playstation owns it), they have the option to release it on other consoles or pc. they havent done it. so i doubt Microsoft will do the same for them.

I am pc player, so i will enjoy it on pc. and in 2-3 years i will get next gen consoles when they are cheap. So, far none of them are good for me. plus my old ones are breathing. xbox will send their games to pc for me, and on x1s, i will just enjoy fifa and gamepass there.

 

[CatLady]

There’s a games pass ot for all the “avid” users and debunkers. If there’s going to be an insistence on creating threads about rumors and speculation, despite being told not to, then they should be open to anyone who wishes to comment.
It’s not profitable. It’s funded by the parent company to make up for years of poor output. Absolutely enjoy it. If you had an xbox one, especially from day one, one could argue you’re owed that much and helped subsidize this. If you never had an xbox, and can now join for $1 for 3 years, then you really made out like a bandit.

1. So which Mod are you that you're allowed to continually allowed to play Hall Monitor in all things Game Pass
2. Why do you continually post disingenuous/false information about being able to get 3 years of Game Pass with only a $1 investment.
3. Additionally can you please provide the proof in hard dollar numbers for Game Pass showing they are not making a profit which you state as absolute fact.

 

[Spidey Fan]

1. So which Mod are you that you're allowed to continually allowed to play Hall Monitor in all things Game Pass
2. Why do you continually post disingenuous/false information about being able to get 3 years of Game Pass with only a $1 investment.
3. Additionally can you please provide the proof in hard dollar numbers for Game Pass showing they are not making a profit which you state as absolute fact.

People make whatever number to make them smart. At this point, my brain is in failure from responding to them. They just don't get it.

1$ only works on 1 account. You need to deactivate your account couple month to use it(you lose new games). If you own xbox, you only have 1 account as main account, which you have library in it.

They seem the 1$ is a machine where you used it everyday. Not to mention you need to lay 180$ upfront for xlive to even get the 3 month. After that, you are back to 15$. The 1$ people are back to 15$.

But that math is hard on their brain.

 

[CatLady]

Lots of people buy Gold anyway, so that is a sunk cost. So for me (and many others), all it took was an extra $1 to upgrade to GP Ultimate.

I got a free Ecobee thermostat with installation from the city when they did a green initiative thing years ago. The cost is $0. The cost isn't the price of my home + $0. I'm already here with mortgage payments.

Now if someone out there is crazy enough to purposely buy a new house just so they can get a free Ecobee unit (which costs $180 at Costco), then ya I guess the cost of the Ecobee is $1 million dollars.

And for lots of people like me that NEVER play online MP or buy Gold it would be $181.

I never did the $181 conversion deal, I didn't even know about it when I converted my regular Game Pass one Black Friday when GPU cards were on sale and cheaper than the regular Game Pass cards. I have bought additional GPU cards when there is a sale and use Bing rewards to buy additional months.

You and Wza always acting like Game Pass is only a $1 investment for everyone gets old.

 

[reksveks]

Amazon Prime probably isn't profitable and isn't meant to be as a singular service, why do we have to keep talking about Gamepass' profit?

Can we just move on and accept that we don't know the finances and primary goals of Gamepass?

 

[Spidey Fan]

Amazon Prime probably isn't profitable and isn't meant to be as a singular service, why do we have to keep talking about Gamepass' profit?

Can we just move on and accept that we don't know the finances and primary goals of Gamepass?

The financial is that it gained 10m subs in just 1 year, with no notable 1st party sales. And it allows you to buy games, dlc, and mtx. With games being there for 1 year. That insane amount of money, if you count these 3. Which most people ignore. If all 3 are $150m, that would be $45m extra money on top of subs. 18m subs are huge wallet spender, if you do it in gaming math (sales deal. Weakness of gamers, and buying to keep things)

 

[Hitchyhero]

Lots of people buy Gold anyway, so that is a sunk cost. So for me (and many others), all it took was an extra $1 to upgrade to GP Ultimate.

I got a free Ecobee thermostat with installation from the city when they did a green initiative thing years ago. The cost is $0. The cost isn't the price of my home + $0. I'm already here with mortgage payments.

Now if someone out there is crazy enough to purposely buy a new house just so they can get a free Ecobee unit (which costs $180 at Costco), then ya I guess the cost of the Ecobee is $1 million dollars.

These comments still sound silly to me. I've never known anyone to have 3 years of an online service at once. Whilst you may have had XBL for 1 year at a time, or monthly.... Now MS has that upfront. Your not leaving the ecosystem anytime soon as you've invested for 3 years.

People generally don't sub for more than a year. Or if your new to the system like me.... That's a completely new $181 that they never had before.