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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Lysandros

Lysandros

Member
cragarmi said:
Before the consoles came out we had supposed leaks from Devs seeing around a 10% real world performance advantage. This game shows us what that advantage brings. Answer-Not much. But that I/O advantage is incredible!
Click to expand...
This is not what we are seeing currently though, there is absolutely not a consistent trend about this. We had very recent examples like Crash 4 and MLB where PS5 has the performance advantage at the same resolution or Tony Hawk having a higher overall resolution for about the same performance compared to XSX. In RE8 RT mode XSX has a mere '0.23%' better FPS in average and only a 4.5% in min. frame rates according to always more meticulous or at least objective Vgtech analysis. This is all the legendary teraflop difference translates into.
 
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kyliethicc

kyliethicc

Member
ZSBOVAk.jpg
 
Audiophile

Audiophile

Member
I wonder if Sony switch to N6, they'll slim the console design itself down or keep it the same simply with the smaller silicon and simplified supporting components. I hope they maintain the overall design for the most part even if it is shrunk down. Even though it's polarising, the design is very distinct and maintains a strong image for the brand, maintaining coherency in that respect is important imo.
 
J

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
Mr Moose said:


Just like other games, loading different areas are faster/slower depending on the area.
Click to expand...

Yup, we saw this with DMC IIRC.

Even so, with a like for like area that took 8 -9 seconds on XSX it loaded way faster on PS5. Usually the exact same area, save, etc is a reasonable test....dont see why some are trying to debate this.

Doncabesa said:
In the actual release of RE Village people are getting between 3 and 4 second loads on the Xbox, not sure why DF was getting the times they did. Still a solid advantage for PS5 there though.
Click to expand...

They tested the exact same loading scenario tho...
 
ethomaz

ethomaz

Banned
jroc74 said:
Yup, we saw this with DMC IIRC.

Even so, with a like for like area that took 8 -9 seconds on XSX it loaded way faster on PS5. Usually the exact same area, save, etc is a reasonable test....dont see why some are trying to debate this.



They tested the exact same loading scenario tho...
Click to expand...
On John tests these loading in 1s translated to 4s on Series X and these ones near 2s translated to 9s.

I’m the only sawing a similar difference?

1 to 4
2 to 9

Of course he is rounding and should have some ms for less or lower but the difference is near the same... ~400%.

There is no point in find a Xbox loading in 4s when PS5 will be at 1s and the difference didn’t changed at all.

It was a failed crusade to begin with.
 
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Three Jackdaws

Three Jackdaws

Banned
SlimySnake said:
pretty phenomenal stuff. I am convinced we will see photorealistic visuals this gen. If not in year 1, definitely by the end of the gen.

Downloaded it on my pc. Gonna see how well it runs inn my 2080 which should give us an idea of what resolution and framerate to expect on next gen consoles with visuals like these.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't rely on that comparison, consoles will have a huge advantage when it comes to developer optimisations.

This demo was also using UE4, and next-gen games which use Unreal will most likely be utilising Unreal Engine 5, which has several features and improvements, especially when it comes to the asset streaming pipeline and handling of geometry and culling.
 
Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
SlimySnake said:
pretty phenomenal stuff. I am convinced we will see photorealistic visuals this gen. If not in year 1, definitely by the end of the gen.

Downloaded it on my pc. Gonna see how well it runs inn my 2080 which should give us an idea of what resolution and framerate to expect on next gen consoles with visuals like these.
Click to expand...

Give me that at 1080p and I'll be a happy man. After what I saw from Returnal I'm not skeptical about 1080p reconstructed to 4K.
 
kyliethicc

kyliethicc

Member
Audiophile said:
I wonder if Sony switch to N6, they'll slim the console design itself down or keep it the same simply with the smaller silicon and simplified supporting components. I hope they maintain the overall design for the most part even if it is shrunk down. Even though it's polarising, the design is very distinct and maintains a strong image for the brand, maintaining coherency in that respect is important imo.
Click to expand...
I doubt they will change the design at all. Would just add cost.

Going to 6nm adds enough cost already, and they can't raise the price.
 
IC3M@N FX

IC3M@N FX

Neo Member
I hope that Microsoft will have mercy and that the Xbox Series S will increase the GPU clock by 200-250 Mhz through an update, the heat sink should be able to cool that under load.
The 4 teraflops are simply not enough, it should have been at least 5-6 teraflops, the developers are already confronted with major problems, the thing runs with the handbrake on.
Measured with the CPU part, the GPU is simply severely underdimensioned.
 
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A

Allandor

Member
IC3M@N FX said:
I hope that Microsoft will have mercy and that the Xbox Series S will increase the GPU clock by 200-250 Mhz through an update, the heat sink should be able to cool that under load.
The 4 teraflops are simply not enough, it should have been at least 5-6 teraflops, the developers are already confronted with major problems, the thing runs with the handbrake on.
Measured with the CPU part, the GPU is simply severely underdimensioned.
Click to expand...
Again? There is nothing with the GPU you can't do at lower res, quality, ... really nothing. It is just a question how low you want to go.
E.g. it should be perfectly capable of delivering at least PS4 Pro quality. And it is a cheap entry-point console. There is no need to have a good graphics quality for this, as only if a game runs is important. People from this forum are not really the target audience for that console, just keep that in mind.
Memory on the other hand .... well I like the PC analogy there. If the PS5 & Series X are Mid/high-end PCs, just look at the series S as low-end PC. In that sector you only have 2-4 GB of memory for the GPU. From this perspective the series S has more than enough. Also it is build to use all the features to save memory and bandwidth that are inside, that will also allow PS5 & XSX to punsh above their weight from a PC perspective. Yes, it is extra work for the developer to include the support (and MS tries to make it as easy as possible to port those games) but it could be a win-win situation. Just a bit of extra work and therefore maybe a much larger audience.
 
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DarkMage619

DarkMage619

$MSFT
Allandor said:
Again? There is nothing with the GPU you can't do at lower res, quality, ... really nothing. It is just a question how low you want to go.
E.g. it should be perfectly capable of delivering at least PS4 Pro quality. And it is a cheap entry-point console. There is no need to have a good graphics quality for this, as only if a game runs is important. People from this forum are not really the target audience for that console, just keep that in mind.
Memory on the other hand .... well I like the PC analogy there. If the PS5 & Series X are Mid/high-end PCs, just look at the series S as low-end PC. In that sector you only have 2-4 GB of memory for the GPU. From this perspective the series S has more than enough. Also it is build to use all the features to save memory and bandwidth that are inside, that will also allow PS5 & XSX to punsh above their weight from a PC perspective. Yes, it is extra work for the developer to include the support (and MS tries to make it as easy as possible to port those games) but it could be a win-win situation. Just a bit of extra work and therefore maybe a much larger audience.
Click to expand...
You are such an extreme minority here. For some reason people who don't own the XSS and won't be affected by its existence speak out the loudest against it. It's so weird. It's like people don't understand that the device is targeting 1080p televisions and won't need a 6TF GPU to run games at that resolution. The CPU is the big factor and guess what? The XSS has the same class CPU as the XSX and PS5! The lowly XSS has more games running at 120 fps than consoles that cost more. I always thought framerate > resolution?

With regards to RAM the XSS has plenty of memory saving features that devs aren't using yet. It is incumbent on MS to ensure their development kit is mature and to assist devs in creating games for their platform. Unless there is news that MS is not assisting devs this 'concern' over the XSS is a non-issue. It's a good thing MS made a device that is even more affordable and it should help gaming reach a larger audience.
 
Ass of Can Whooping

Ass of Can Whooping

Member
DarkMage619 said:
You are such an extreme minority here. For some reason people who don't own the XSS and won't be affected by its existence speak out the loudest against it. It's so weird. It's like people don't understand that the device is targeting 1080p televisions and won't need a 6TF GPU to run games at that resolution. The CPU is the big factor and guess what? The XSS has the same class CPU as the XSX and PS5! The lowly XSS has more games running at 120 fps than consoles that cost more. I always thought framerate > resolution?

With regards to RAM the XSS has plenty of memory saving features that devs aren't using yet. It is incumbent on MS to ensure their development kit is mature and to assist devs in creating games for their platform. Unless there is news that MS is not assisting devs this 'concern' over the XSS is a non-issue. It's a good thing MS made a device that is even more affordable and it should help gaming reach a larger audience.
Click to expand...

I've finished Returnal you can stop talking about the XSS now
 
IC3M@N FX

IC3M@N FX

Neo Member
Allandor said:
Again? There is nothing with the GPU you can't do at lower res, quality, ... really nothing. It is just a question how low you want to go.
E.g. it should be perfectly capable of delivering at least PS4 Pro quality. And it is a cheap entry-point console. There is no need to have a good graphics quality for this, as only if a game runs is important. People from this forum are not really the target audience for that console, just keep that in mind.
Memory on the other hand .... well I like the PC analogy there. If the PS5 & Series X are Mid/high-end PCs, just look at the series S as low-end PC. In that sector you only have 2-4 GB of memory for the GPU. From this perspective the series S has more than enough. Also it is build to use all the features to save memory and bandwidth that are inside, that will also allow PS5 & XSX to punsh above their weight from a PC perspective. Yes, it is extra work for the developer to include the support (and MS tries to make it as easy as possible to port those games) but it could be a win-win situation. Just a bit of extra work and therefore maybe a much larger audience.
Click to expand...
That may be true what you say, but the Series S GPU is simply clocked too low.
If the GPU would run at least at 1800 Mhz, at least it would have no problems later with a resolution of 1080-1440p depending on the game.
The Series S will have the problem of calculating half the resolution of the Series X with the same graphics quality without actually having half the performance.
 
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Dodkrake

Dodkrake

Banned
IC3M@N FX said:
I hope that Microsoft will have mercy and that the Xbox Series S will increase the GPU clock by 200-250 Mhz through an update, the heat sink should be able to cool that under load.
The 4 teraflops are simply not enough, it should have been at least 5-6 teraflops, the developers are already confronted with major problems, the thing runs with the handbrake on.
Measured with the CPU part, the GPU is simply severely underdimensioned.
Click to expand...

Terrorflops won't save a RAM starved console.

DarkMage619 said:
I always thought framerate > resolution?
Click to expand...

Framerate > resolution if the Xbox wins the framerate battle
Framerate < resolution if the Xbox wins the resolution battle

You should know this, have they not delivered the script this week?
 
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DarkMage619

DarkMage619

$MSFT
IC3M@N FX said:
That may be true what you say, but the Series S GPU is simply clocked too low.
If the GPU would run at least at 1800 Mhz, at least it would have no problems later with a resolution of 1080-1440p depending on the game.
The Series S will have the problem of calculating half the resolution of the Series X with the same graphics quality without actually having half the performance.
Click to expand...
Do you have any evidence of this? Resident Evil 8 just hit consoles and despite the fact that the X1X has more RAM at a higher clock speed the XSS has better overall performance and boasts raytracing a feature the X1X lack entirely. If Capcom had optimized the game better it would easily be able to run the game at 30 FPS and 1080p with raytracing, 60 fps without.

Dodkrake said:
Terrorflops won't save a RAM starved console.



Framerate > resolution if the Xbox wins the framerate battle
Framerate < resolution if the Xbox wins the resolution battle

You should know this, have they not delivered the script this week?
Click to expand...
Its a good thing that RAM isn't the end all be all seeing my earlier example of the X1X having more RAM but not having any raytracing at all. I'm pretty sure the XSS runs RE8 at a higher framerate and resolution too. The latest script I saw was that the Xbox Series consoles will be getting even more FPS boosted titles so I'm thinking that framerate > resolution will be it for the time being.
 
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Mr Moose

Mr Moose

Member
Riky said:
There is no patch for Series consoles. It just brute forces twice the framerate.
Click to expand...
I think they patch the console and not the games, right?
Do you get a small OS update to update the games that work with it? :pie_thinking:
DarkMage619 said:
Do you have any evidence of this? Resident Evil 8 just hit consoles and despite the fact that the X1X has more RAM at a higher clock speed the XSS has better overall performance and boasts raytracing a feature the X1X lack entirely. If Capcom had optimized the game better it would easily be able to run the game at 30 FPS and 1080p with raytracing, 60 fps without.
Click to expand...
You can't be serious? Of course One X is lacking RT, last gen consoles don't have that as a hardware feature and it runs like shit with RT on on the Series S. It has a better CPU.
Xbox One X in Prioritize Screen Resolution Mode renders at a resolution of 3840x2160 using what appears to be a form of checkerboard rendering. Xbox One X in Prioritize Frame Rate Mode renders at a native resolution of 1920x1080.
Click to expand...
Xbox Series S in both modes renders at a resolution of 2560x1440 using what appears to be a form of checkerboard rendering.
Click to expand...
1080p native is higher than 1440p checkerboard. It's locked 60fps on One X, it is not locked (close but no) on Series S.
One X 4k mode runs better than Series S RT mode.
 
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Riky

Riky

$MSFT
Mr Moose said:
I think they patch the console and not the games, right?
Do you get a small OS update to update the games that work with it? :pie_thinking:

You can't be serious? Of course One X is lacking RT, last gen consoles don't have that as a hardware feature and it runs like shit with RT on on the Series S. It has a better CPU.


1080p native is higher than 1440p checkerboard. It's locked 60fps on One X, it is not locked (close but no) on Series S.
One X 4k mode runs better than Series S RT mode.
Click to expand...

There was no downloadable update, you just restarted your console and the game option appeared. Pretty amazing stuff.
Played the Series S and One X versions of Village and the Series S loads about ten times faster and has superior image quality, what tiny drops it has are taken care of by VRR so I wouldn't play on One X if I had the choice although it's still a fine way to play.
 
Iced Arcade

Iced Arcade

Member
IC3M@N FX said:
I hope that Microsoft will have mercy and that the Xbox Series S will increase the GPU clock by 200-250 Mhz through an update, the heat sink should be able to cool that under load.
The 4 teraflops are simply not enough, it should have been at least 5-6 teraflops, the developers are already confronted with major problems, the thing runs with the handbrake on.
Measured with the CPU part, the GPU is simply severely underdimensioned.
Click to expand...
What problems? The Series S is meant to be a lower end model and that's exactly how it has been running. Expecting the S to run on par with the Series X and PS5 is just dumb.
 
assurdum

assurdum

Banned
SlimySnake said:
He says PS5 does not support Tier 2 VRS. Is Tier 1 software only or something?
Click to expand...
Has Dictator said tier 2 is not possible via software? Because if so he is completely wrong. A developer precised time ago (posting in the same neogaf if I'm not wrong or via Twitter) saying a software VRS can be even better than an hardware VRS. Tier 1 or 2 nomenclature changes nothing.

Go to fuck yourself Riky you and your stupid fanboy gif
 
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Mr Moose

Mr Moose

Member
Riky said:
There was no downloadable update, you just restarted your console and the game option appeared. Pretty amazing stuff.
Played the Series S and One X versions of Village and the Series S loads about ten times faster and has superior image quality, what tiny drops it has are taken care of by VRR so I wouldn't play on One X if I had the choice although it's still a fine way to play.
Click to expand...
Interesting, very clever how MS have done this, it's a nice advantage over hardware BC (hardware BC has advantage in other areas but not like this).
The best thing about these 3 new consoles IMO is the SSDs, the CPUs, and the 3D audio when done properly.
 
DarkMage619

DarkMage619

$MSFT
Mr Moose said:
I think they patch the console and not the games, right?
Do you get a small OS update to update the games that work with it? :pie_thinking:

You can't be serious? Of course One X is lacking RT, last gen consoles don't have that as a hardware feature and it runs like shit with RT on on the Series S. It has a better CPU.


1080p native is higher than 1440p checkerboard. It's locked 60fps on One X, it is not locked (close but no) on Series S.
One X 4k mode runs better than Series S RT mode.
Click to expand...
Many here argue that the XSS is 'weaker' than the X1X. If you had been following the conversation the argument is XSS doesn't have enough RAM. The X1X has more RAM and bandwidth but fewer graphical features on this game. Again it's almost like RAM isn't the end all be all.

I have not seen a head to head comparison of the X1X and the XSS but where did you hear that 1080p is higher than 1440p checkboard? How does the X1X 4k mode run better than the XSS with raytracing when one is at 30 and the other is higher than 30 but unstable? If anything it means Capcom needs to lock the framerate of the raytracing mode on the XSS to 30 something I mentioned earlier. That design choice is not the fault of the XSS. It's clear there is some headroom if the framerate was lower.
 
Three Jackdaws

Three Jackdaws

Banned
OneTruth said:
Software VRS. Only XSX have hardware VRS Tier 2.


Click to expand...

I mean it's not really a big loss or anything.

VRS solutions can performed through software as well, one could argue not as effective as the hardware solution but they're still pretty great. Call of Duty have for years now been using a software based VRS solution which actually beats the fixed function hardware (in Tier 1 I'm guessing).

I'm with Matt Hargett on this one though, the ultimate performance gains will be achieved through Primitive and Mesh Shaders (which are also great for VRS btw).
 
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