DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Ok ElAnalistaDeBits, calm ya tette.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
thebigmanjosh
Member
Could be the recent HDR patch that changes output to SDR for certain games?
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azertydu91
Hard to Kill
It might be hdmi handshake or the switch to hdr....Try using the same cable but the other way around, it sometimes works for handshake.You can also try to disable hdr in game and see if the problem continues.
Werewolfgrandma
Banned
This is not true at all. Many many many people wait till mid gen to late gen to get a new console. Those people will all love BC upgrades.
I mean just look at sales over lifetime. It's not hard to see lots of people are still and will still be using last gen consoles for several more years.
Imtjnotu
Member
you purposely trying to come here and be an ass?
come on dude. dont shit post troll the next gen thread
Three Jackdaws
Banned
I'm seeing Witcher 3 appreciation on this thread.
"happy villentretenmerth noises"
Anyways I was rewatching Cherno's review of the road to PS5 talk, something which I didn't catch earlier was when he mentioned that developers actually had to make tradeoffs when compressing their data on previous gen consoles, this was because the more a file had been compressed, the longer it would take to decompress it by the CPU, especially large files. These were only some of the problems slow disks caused. I didn't realise how much of a shit show the old HDD of the previous gen were, I can only imagine the amount of headache that has been lifted off the developers/programmers shoulders thanks to the advancements of next-gen.
timestampped link
"happy villentretenmerth noises"
Anyways I was rewatching Cherno's review of the road to PS5 talk, something which I didn't catch earlier was when he mentioned that developers actually had to make tradeoffs when compressing their data on previous gen consoles, this was because the more a file had been compressed, the longer it would take to decompress it by the CPU, especially large files. These were only some of the problems slow disks caused. I didn't realise how much of a shit show the old HDD of the previous gen were, I can only imagine the amount of headache that has been lifted off the developers/programmers shoulders thanks to the advancements of next-gen.
timestampped link
PaintTinJr
Member
To be honest, that's initially what I thought, too but with memory prices as is I'm not actually sure "cheaped out" is a fair comment, unless they could have sold the XsX at break even as is,and then the missing 4GB is them being too cheap to subsidize at launch.
A large part of my dislike for the XsS is that it is nothing like the proposition of XsX software with adjusting sliders down - as Xbox PR claimed IIRC - to run the same code at lower res. However, had the XsX only had 10GB of RAM then such a claim would have made sense IMHO, because the bandwidths would have been different, but the data flows and code optimizations should have been identical from XsX to XsS, making the adjusting sliders claim seem far more plausible.
This gen's storage solutions - compared to mechanical drives of last-gen without h/w decompression - in theory should have made the option for an 8GB PS5/XsX a genuine option on the table IMO, and I suspect most games we are currently getting are still working around the same type of last-gen memory footprint in spite of the 16GB consoles.
I also think it is weird that the X1, the X1X and the XsS all have unified memory making porting between that series of consoles easier, yet - unless xbox restricted developers to just using the fast 10GB - the XsX has some weird two pool setup (as the odd one out) that is neither a bonus setup against the competition, or aligned to what developers need for reducing their workload of making cross-series porting effortless. The physical specs and designs of the two consoles(XsS, XsX) contradict the strategy IMO, and I'm more inclined to believe their business strategy was locked-in before the technical specs of the consoles were fixed.
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DarkMage619
$MSFT
All the RAM talk and no word about SFS and VA things that directly address the physical memory issues. I have yet to see any games using these features when we do and it doesn't work we can talk about how 10GB isn't enough memory to run games at 1080p. That fast SSD is critical for addressing less RAM.
Not everyone wants to spend $500 to buy a 4k console when they only game casually. The XSS is not targeted at people who want to game at 4k and it was never marketed as such. People are just making up some imaginary standard to get in a dig at their hated platform owner.
Mr Moose
Member
It's not 10GB on Series S.
DarkMage619
$MSFT
'No one wants to play old games' Jim Ryan would be proud! MS is bad for having backward compatibility!
ethomaz
Banned
Not bad but it doesn’t add value to the platform.
Nobody will go crazy to buy a Series X|S because it have good BC or BC at all.
They will go crazy to buy the platform that have the new games they want to play.
It is like PC upgrading hardware... they don’t buy a new super expensive GPU to play old games but to shine in the new showcase games.
PS. It should cool to know how many out of touch decisions made with Xbox are based in the vocal fanboys on Twitter
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kyliethicc
Member
Series S doesn't have unified bandwidth. Its split also. Only 8 GB @ 224 GB/s and 2 GB @ just 56 GB/s. (5 chips on a 128 bit bus.)
And Xbox One has the dumb DDR3 + ESRAM setup that bottlenecks the bandwidth, so that's not very good either. Unlike PS4.
Only the Xbox One X has actually unified fast bandwidth. All 12 GB @ 326 GB/s.
They cheaped out on the Sbox. Should've given it 16 GB RAM, like the actual next gen consoles have.
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PaintTinJr
Member
I can't really argue against any of that, you've convinced me.
lol
If anything PS5 exclusives/1st party games show what the SSD, I/O is capable of.
Seeing ppl post proof....priceless.
DarkMage619
$MSFT
Oh? How much physical RAM is in the XSS sir?
ethomaz
Banned
I’m still impressed how good the loading times on first party games... NiOH and RE8 seems to be doing the same from 3rd-parties.
Mr Moose
Member
kyliethicc
Member
I mean look at the PS5 DE at just $400. Full specs, just no discs. Great price.
Microsoft wanted to hit the $300 price point, fine. So trim the specs A LITTLE bit from the XSX.
They could have just done this...
8 CPUs 16t @ 3.6 GHz
40 CUs @ 1.6 GHz (8 TF)
16 GB @ 448 GB/s
500 GB SSD @ 2.4 GB/s
.. and still sold it for $300. Thats still a noticeable cut down spec from their $500 box, unlike the PS5 DE at $400. And it wouldn't have fucked the devs as much. And it would have been able to run XONEX games via BC cuz it'd have same 40 CUs and enough RAM.
(Or they could have just sold a digital XSX for $400.)
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Didn't you know? There is a slider to turn down the OS memory. Thanks to the magical RAM saving features, it's almost 0 on the S!
DarkMage619
$MSFT
Wait so does the XSS have 10GB of memory or not? Are we playing some sort of semantic exercise now? How much memory is necessary to run games at 1080p? Again the memory available on the XSS isn't like the memory on the X1 where the only way to get data in and out was on a slow bus off even slower secondary storage. There are features that deal with this.
Are you taking this position because the PS5 doesn't do this on nearly the same level? How can having more games available on your platform not adding value? I could maybe see if the XSX|S ONLY could play old games and would never get any new support but that is not the case. It is the definition of value add man. On top of that based on the response people gave when Sony threatened to close the store for the PS3 people clearly see the value of old games. ESPECIALLY when those old games are running at up to 120 FPS and have HDR and resolutions increased.Not bad but it doesn’t add value to the platform.
Nobody will go crazy to buy a Series X|S because it have good BC or BC at all.
They will go crazy to buy the platform that have the new games they want to play.
It is like PC upgrading hardware... they don’t buy a new super expensive GPU to play old games but to shine in the new showcase games.
PS. It should cool to know how many out of touch decisions made with Xbox are based in the vocal fanboys on Twitter
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
Take the sneaky L and get over it
Mr Moose
Member
Are you being intentionally dense? You said about how 10GB isn't enough memory to run games at 1080p, it doesn't have 10GB available to run any games, there's RAM reserved for the OS and you know this, don't you?
Three Jackdaws
Banned
?Hey everyone!
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Gotta love these developers, what game fits and doesn't is way more about which textures you use, vfx and so on. Hardly to do with res, I can run Max Payne 2 on 4k and have 9GB of VRAM free...
DarkMage619
$MSFT
Originally you said it didn't have 10GB of memory. You can say I'm being dense but I wasn't the one saying the XSS didn't have 10GB of memory. I also never made any claim to how that memory was allocated. For the record I don't believe you need 10GB of memory to run a game at 1080p.
Mr Moose
Member
I was replying to your comment about 10GB for games, do you really need me to spell it out for you and add "for games" to the end of the comment? It. Does. Not. Have. 10GB. For. Games. Happy?
kyliethicc
Member
Hoddi
Member
Max Payne 2 is way too old for such a comparison. Modern games absolutely scale with resolution due to the various render targets and buffers that they use.
For example, here's how the Resident Evil 2 remake scales up across 1080p, 4k, and 8k. Different games will show different numbers but this kind of memory scaling is far from unusual. I know the S is rather low on memory but I think people need to keep some perspective here.
Rea
Member
M
Ram memory has never been enough for developers, unlese they are developing some indie games like small, simple and light games. Even indies games nowadays, need much more ram than previously. Developers need to sacrifice their game design or intended visuals arts design due to lack of ram. That's why the ssd comes into play this generation. Low latency high bandwidth storage is the game changer.
Ram memory has never been enough for developers, unlese they are developing some indie games like small, simple and light games. Even indies games nowadays, need much more ram than previously. Developers need to sacrifice their game design or intended visuals arts design due to lack of ram. That's why the ssd comes into play this generation. Low latency high bandwidth storage is the game changer.
MasterCornholio
Member
So is RE8 a good indication of how close the two platforms are? In comparison the differences seem to be a lot larger with last gen systems (XB1 vs PS4).
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Just one (cross gen) game? There have been blows traded since launch, as developers said would happen.
MasterCornholio
Member
I mean that it's a fair comparison since both have the same settings. Some comparisons are kind of bad since they were not the same. Like the BC ones for example.
skit_data
Member
More or less I think, at least when it comes to multiplats. There will be some that perform better on PS5 and some on XSX.
Isn’t it also pretty funny that almost every game that performed better on one console also had marketing rights tied to the opposite one?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Obvious the BC ones were clownish, but there have been other cross / next gen games that they traded blows since launch.
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MasterCornholio
Member
From what I'm seeing from the comparisons unless there's something really messed up both versions tend to be extremely close. Like the initial comparison of Mortal Shell for example until the fixed the PS5 version with 1800P DRS.
MasterCornholio
Member
Hitman and Avengers were the only ones that seemed a bit odd to me. The rest have been extremely close.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
It will all be engine / rendering dependent.
Rea
Member
I noticed that too.
Mr Moose
Member
Close enough that no one that's playing the games should feel left out or give a shit. Seems to run pretty well on all 3 consoles with the exception of RT mode on Series S, solid performance on all without RT.
I would say the only "bad" version is the One S version because it looks like ass.
Rea
Member
I think depending on the game engine, both will trade blows, but not by much. The difference will be pretty minimal.
skit_data
Member
Yeah Avengers is strange, but I can see it being tied to the PS4 Pro/X1X versions to some extent. Hitman 3 is a curious one, since it also has higher shadow settings and lower res. I’m still not entirely convinced that one doesn’t have a tie to the PS4 Pro/X1X versions as well. It could also be the case that the games work better/not optimal with respective console.
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
But I don't disagree with you.
Hoddi
Member
Ah, I wasn't sure. But it's no biggie and some people might like to see how video memory is used in games. People tend to overestimate how much last-gen games spent on textures vs the rest of the GPU buffer.
Sinthor
Gold Member
Good grief. I second this. The correct (and obvious) explanation for the retail version having a longer loading screen is simple. Aesthetics. Multiple developers have already talked about actually slowing down the loading so that they can display message screens, etc. In Demon's Souls they stretched it out to a whole two seconds so they can do the nice fog animation across the full screen. That's it. Clearly they COULD have made the loads instantaneous like say Spider Man does when you leave building levels on PS5.
Trying to claim otherwise is just silly. Yeah, I'm sure not EVERY game and scenario can be done INSTANTLY on PS5. But this thing is damn quick and definitely faster than anything else out there right now, including PC. I imagine that lead may even hold into next year with the delays that Covid have brought- otherwise I would have expected some PC equivalent by end of THIS year. We'll see.
DarkMage619
$MSFT
Or to play resident evil at higher framerate than the X1X despite it having less RAM. Again it's almost like RAM is not the end all be all.It definitely does not require 10 GB of memory to run Tetris at 1080p.
What you meant and what you typed was different. It. Does. Not. Need. 10GB. Of. RAM. (this is silly) To run games at 1080p bro. My point still stands. On top of that once devs start using SFS and VA RAM issues will be even less important.
People are acting like the XSS is supposed to run games exactly like the XSX with less memory. News flash! It isn't. The funny thing is despite its lack of memory it's clearly out performing last generation's consoles just like it was designed to. It did need to or was designed to be a carbon copy of Sony's strategy.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I am just gonna leave this here.
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