Support NeoGAF

[DeepEnigma]

I have to say, this is a very important point where I say PS5 hardware is in my opinion A last generation Technology with Some RDNA 2.0 add to it. This is the 2nd next gen exclusive game that has been performing under par. R&C 1440p and now this game at 1080p. It's not starting off well, oh yes I told you so..........

 

[StateofMajora]

VFXVeteran But yeah, minus the cpu and ssd, Ps5 is kinda in the same position the ps4 was at launch. 900p battlefield 4 was not a good sign to me back then.

Not that PS5 doesn't have plenty of power for ridiculously good looking games, and it's even less of an issue than it was for ps4 which also had great looking games. But it does mean developers will be struggling to reach the higher resolutions we expect.

I'm curious to see what Ratchet runs at in performance mode.

 

[assurdum]

This part is definitely 100% true though. I'll just leave it at that.

And?

 

[kyoji]

Dude none of this matters until games release. That is the point. Talk is cheap, cheap, cheap, and that's all that has happened under Phil Spencer, and now you're engaging in the exact same behavior. Remember when MS bought Rare and everyone thought, that's it, it's over MS is going to have classic after classic and Nintendo blew it. Nintendo gamers were furious. Well ... how has that been less than basically a disaster for MS? Look at how many benchmarks Rare released under Nintendo. Under MS? Zero.

So yeah. None of what you said matters. It just doesn't. The only thing that matters in life, and this goes for absolutely everything, career, finances, fitness etc, is results. Results are the only thing that matters. That's why Sony and Nintendo don't have to be talking to the press every friggin' day like Microsoft. They are just staying quiet and putting out hit after hit ... after hit .... after hit. And that's what get's people to open up their wallets.

 

[Punished Miku]

And?

And therefore a not-insignificant portion of fanboys on here are flagrant hypocrites who can't be trusted to say anything since their principles shift overnight without even the slightest honest acknowledgement.

 

[Withnail]

First off I want to say how much I want to play the game. And the particles and lighting are really insane, models look good too.

But 1080p... kinda worried about this generation lol. Just worried about going under 1080p on Ps5 for future games.

Not saying it won't look better than 1080p as i'm sure it does, or that upscaling techniques won't continue to improve, but yeah. I wanted 1440p out of this gen seeing how frequent I saw it on PS4 pro.

LOL don't worry, nobody who's played this is mistaking it for a PS4 Pro game.

 

[Reality Czar]

And therefore a not-insignificant portion of fanboys on here are flagrant hypocrites

Oh no someone had an inconsistent opinion about video games? Someone call the cops.

 

[Insane Metal]

1080p using shenanigans + more shenanigans to get to """4K"""

Welp. I told you guys these consoles wouldn't be 4K machines. Yes I'm talking both consoles.

Anyway. If Forza managed to get 1080p on base XBox One I can't wait to see what T10 will come up with for the XSX.

 

[StateofMajora]

LOL don't worry, nobody who's played this is mistaking it for a PS4 Pro game.

Not sure what you mean. I'm just talking about resolution.

 

[assurdum]

VFXVeteran But yeah, minus the cpu and ssd, Ps5 is kinda in the same position the ps4 was at launch. 900p battlefield 4 was not a good sign to me back then.

Not that PS5 doesn't have plenty of power for ridiculously good looking games, and it's even less of an issue than it was for ps4 which also had great looking games. But it does mean developers will be struggling to reach the higher resolutions we expect.

I'm curious to see what Ratchet runs at in performance mode.

I think it's really early to say that. Raytracing of course will land those console quite low resolution. But maybe with "selective" bounce in the future can save more performance for the resolution. And it's incredibly how the cache scrubber are literally ignored when potentially could save a lot of bandwidth performance. Will see I guess. But of course native 4k wasn't even in my dreams.

 

[Withnail]

Not sure what you mean. I'm just talking about resolution.

I mean it's graphically miles ahead of anything on PS4 Pro and pixel counting doesn't change that.

 

[Punished Miku]

Oh no someone had an inconsistent opinion about video games? Someone call the cops.

Oh no, someone pointed it out in a thread discussing a new PS5 release.?

Reality Czar apparently gets cranky when people discuss resolution and the meta-conversation around the consoles and their performance strength in a DF thread about resolution and performance for a new console exclusive game.

 

[Stuart360]

Ignore.

 

[VFXVeteran]

I think it's really early to say that. Raytracing of course will land those console quite low resolution. But maybe with "selective" bounce in the future can save more performance for the resolution. And it's incredibly how the cache scrubber are literally ignored when potentially could save a lot of bandwidth performance. Will see I guess. But of course native 4k wasn't even in my dreams.

It's not early at all. You got two studios that have written an engine from the ground up and they gave it their best. It's not going to get much better by the same companies later on in the generation. Please don't put a "skill level" on the developers claiming they still don't "know" the hardware yet.

 

[StateofMajora]

I think it's really early to say that. Raytracing of course will land those console quite low resolution. But maybe with "selective" bounce in the future can save more performance for the resolution. And it's incredibly how the cache scrubber are literally ignored when potentially could save a lot of bandwidth performance. Will see I guess. But of course native 4k wasn't even in my dreams.

It is early, so i'll just keep watching I guess.

If Ratchet doesn't hit 1440p in performance mode though, I think it's safe to say that's how things will be.

 

[DeepEnigma]

It's not early at all. You got two studios that have written an engine from the ground up and they gave it their best. It's not going to get much better by the same companies later on in the generation. Please don't put a "skill level" on the developers claiming they still don't "know" the hardware yet.

 

[Ma-Yuan]

Who ever shifts their pants because of 1080p magic it doesn't look like 1080p at all on my 65 inch oled. I played yakuza like a dragon at 1080p before on that and it's night and day difference imagine quality wise.

 

[StateofMajora]

It's not early at all. You got two studios that have written an engine from the ground up and they gave it their best. It's not going to get much better by the same companies later on in the generation. Please don't put a "skill level" on the developers claiming they still don't "know" the hardware yet.

Yeah I mean it's not like Housemarque doesn't have a technical pedigree.

Only thing I kind of wonder with them would be the resources they had ; they might not have had the same amount of money and certainly not people that Insomniac for example has.

 

[Silent Viper]

"After checking in Housemarque, we got some answers: the PlayStation 5's RT hardware is used to accelerate global illumination queries, essentially speeding up a software-based system and not used for direct visual results. A similar system is used in Nvidia's RTXGI, so I'll be curious if this technology is repurposed in some way for Returnal - RTXGI is a part of Unreal Engine 4 now. Housemarque also shared that the hardware RT system in PlayStation 5 is also used to take the 3D audio in Returnal to the next level: audio environment queries are accelerated with hardware ray tracing support."

Source: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2021-returnal-absolute-housemarque

i see no RT or its very subtle. I dont see any RT effect

 

[Interfectum]

It's not early at all. You got two studios that have written an engine from the ground up and they gave it their best. It's not going to get much better by the same companies later on in the generation. Please don't put a "skill level" on the developers claiming they still don't "know" the hardware yet.

The skill level will come in as they learn and share tricks to make up for the console's deficiencies. So while Housemarque could very well be pushing PS5 to it's absolute limits we'll see much, much better looking and performing games as we get into this generation. This always happens.

 

[Silent Viper]

That is really impressive.

1080p TAA reconstructed to 1440p and checkeboarded to 4k.
The result is really great and unique.

But I'm more impressed how Alex Bathallia put it even over his PC lovers parts.



Welcome to next-gen gamers.

oh now this is impressive even at 1080p..

Oh you Ethomaz. Master of spins lol

 

[Silent Viper]

1080p....? I admit I haven't watched the video as I will be after work.....so please dont hurt me.....

...But 1080p with framedrops??

yeah, so that makes it

 

[Punished Miku]

The skill level will come in as they learn and share tricks to make up for the console's deficiencies. So while Housemarque could very well be pushing PS5 to it's absolute limits we'll see much, much better looking and performing games as we get into this generation. This always happens.

He has a point though about teams making an engine and giving it a shot. I think we'll see some more impressive stuff down the road, but typically we're going to be seeing 1 or max 2 games from big Sony studios this entire gen.

God of War team took 1 crack at PS4 and that's all we even saw. It's not like they are constantly iterating. Naughty Dog didn't really change that dramatically between Uncharted 4 and The Last of Us 2.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Hey, I know its early in the generation but maybe this is a little bit of humble pie for us all to realise that if we want 60 fps and all these features, no matter what magical io you have its not going to allow you to deliver 60 fps at high resolutions.

These are consoles at the end of the day and it's not some magical box that can deliver out of the ordinary performance. We will see amazing games, and some incredible graphics ( just look at ratchet) but 60 fps and raytracing etc is going to seriously impact what these consoles can actually pump out to the screen.

I personally would prefer 60fps over resolution but that's me. So this reconstructed 1080p is what it has to be.

 

[GymWolf]

You're putting way too much emphasis on the TFLOPs metric here, it should give you an idea of how the machine should perform but shouldn't be the sole indicator of performance overall. And I'm not talking about games running at native 4K at 60FPS, I bet you'll see upscaled/upsampled 4K@60FPS games throughout this generation with the graphical fidelity of the UE5 demo as devs start using features like mesh/primitive shaders (the biggest gain for the consoles imo, along with a vastly improved CPU and SSD), VRS and etc. I know how much of a meme the whole SSD thing has become around here so I don't even bother trying to explain why the console's SSD is actually a literal game-changer (which it is) when it comes to graphics rendering and game design, I'd rather wait for the first-party games on PS5 to showcase what's possible with it first since seeing it in action is much more easier to understand. I thought people would get it when the UE5 demo came out but apparently not since there's still some who don't understand just how capable the hardware really is, only a few more weeks till E3 now.

I know how good the ssd is if the ue5 demo is anything to go by, i was just talking about native 4k60 not being possible for the entire life span of the console.

Sure TF are not everything, but you can't even dismiss my example where a far more powerfull pc with far more rendering power of a ps5 can't even do 4k60 with CURRENT-GEN games or even 2-3 years old games.

I mean optimization and all of that, but let's be real here for a moment.

If we talk about upscaling techniques like checkboard etc. then we both think at the same way, you can read one of my previous posts where i predicted upscaled4k and maybe some non-rock solid performance mode for some titles.

 

[Trainsmove]

Don't be mad at me. Be made at Sonys lack of hardware. This is the 2nd PS5 Exclusive that has too use Trix are for kids to reach 4k. Your PS5 that's just as powerful as your Competitor. The super power of the ssd has made your GPU slower.
Good lock with that. And by the way only a Crack smoker would spend $100 more on a more powerful cooling system and not the GPU.

 

[Dr Bass]

Every console warrior brushed me off when I told everyone that this generation had weak hardware for 6-7yr sprint. These consoles were already tapped out a long time ago. And by "tapped out", I mean bandwidth bottlenecks were readily apparent very very early on. It doesn't mean there won't be great looking games like R&C. But it does mean people need to get their expectations in check. You'll find more art driven talent per studio than you will a showcase of some graphical tour de force.

Yeah but, compared to the PC consoles are going to be in this position for like ... forever. You just can't make a completely cutting edge box in every area for 500 bucks. I know you know this. I dunno why there are console fans that can't accept this.

 

[Interfectum]

He has a point though about teams making an engine and giving it a shot. I think we'll see some more impressive stuff down the road, but typically we're going to be seeing 1 or max 2 games from big Sony studios this entire gen.

God of War team took 1 crack at PS4 and that's all we even saw. It's not like they are constantly iterating. Naughty Dog didn't really change that dramatically between Uncharted 4 and The Last of Us 2.

Sure but it's just weird to have this conversation when we've seen this happen again and again. When the PS4 launched no one would have ever guessed we would get RDR2 or TLoU2 caliber graphics. SDKs mature, techniques change, etc.

Best thing we can say now is something everyone should have already known: We are not getting many, if any, true next-gen games at native 4K and 60FPS on either platform.

 

[FatKingBallman]

No, you can be wrong. It's ok.

How the fuck i can be wrong if there is no upscaling in this game, yet you trying to spin it

 

[Kangx]

This is dumb. This is not merely native 1080p. I see lot of people running with this. Whatever technique they use, iam sure it's more expensive than native 1080p. There is no magic upscale, it cost resource. Until Housemarque explain their method, then we dont know. And the result show that. People would most definitely notice and complain about native 1080p on their 60 in TV. Most gamers and journalist have not complain about the image quality and performance until DF pixel count. In fact most of them praise the game for being beautiful and next gen.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Don't be mad at me. Be made at Sonys lack of hardware. This is the 2nd PS5 Exclusive that has too use Trix are for kids to reach 4k. Your PS5 that's just as powerful as your Competitor. The super power of the ssd has made your GPU slower.
Good lock with that. And by the way only a Crack smoker would spend $100 more on a more powerful cooling system and not the GPU.

I don't own a PS5.

 

[Withnail]

It's not early at all. You got two studios that have written an engine from the ground up and they gave it their best. It's not going to get much better by the same companies later on in the generation. Please don't put a "skill level" on the developers claiming they still don't "know" the hardware yet.

The SDK will be continually developed and Sony will probably reduce the OS memory allocation at some point as they've done in previous gens, freeing up more memory for games. If you think games aren't going to improve graphically then you're wrong.

 

[Silent Viper]

I don't own a PS5.

impossible.. only xbox?

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

But results in Returnal are better than native one.

Yeah no. If console were able to produce native 4k you would see the difference. In fact that low native resolution might explain why the game is so dark.

 

[Punished Miku]

Sure but it's just weird to have this conversation when we've seen this happen again and again. When the PS4 launched no one would have ever guessed we would get RDR2 or TLoU2 caliber graphics. SDKs mature, techniques change, etc.

Best thing we can say now is something everyone should have already known: We are not getting many, if any, true next-gen games at native 4K and 60FPS on either platform.

How many games did Rockstar put out on PS4 though? 1. We saw their attempt on PS4, and that was it. I think that was more his point. Once you see where Rockstar is at, that's where they're at for that gen. Naughty dog didn't change that much from Uncharted 4 to TLOU 2.

The only studios that even managed to put out multiple games were Sucker Punch and Insomniac.

 

[RaySoft]

Correction:
"Returnal: Housemarque pushes their current PlayStation 5 toolchain and libraries HARD with spectacular results"

 

[DeepEnigma]

impossible.. only xbox?

PC, I have no need for an Xbox.

 

[VFXVeteran]

The skill level will come in as they learn and share tricks to make up for the console's deficiencies. So while Housemarque could very well be pushing PS5 to it's absolute limits we'll see much, much better looking and performing games as we get into this generation. This always happens.

Better looking is subjective. Performing is objective. If these studios can't do native 4k/60 because the hardware just doesn't have the power, then we need to accept that. It's nothing wrong with the consoles having limitations where the devs have to optimize around it. But we definitely shouldn't expect 4k/60 + Full on RT + max particles + streaming SSD + .. .. it's just not going to happen. That's all I'm saying and have said. People want hardware to do it all - but it just won't. Even my 3090 is slow to me. I've seen it kneel down and take it by FS2020. I'm just a realist.

 

[muteZX]

Disappointing because now it was pointed out image quality is reconstructed from 1080p? But before that, no one had any issues with it nor did anyone express their disappointment when we were getting tons of trailers, preview vids.

Shitty framerate and laughable resolution is a bit disappointing. Happy now.

It's a simple action game / PS5 native / and failed smoothly in two basic parameters.

 

[modiz]

Wait, so the game is locked but not locked? Is this some kind of Schrodinger's frame rate?

 

[Interfectum]

Better looking is subjective. Performing is objective. If these studios can't do native 4k/60 because the hardware just doesn't have the power, then we need to accept that. It's nothing wrong with the consoles having limitations where the devs have to optimize around it. But we definitely shouldn't expect 4k/60 + Full on RT + max particles + streaming SSD + .. .. it's just not going to happen. That's all I'm saying and have said. People want hardware to do it all - but it just won't. Even my 3090 is slow to me. I've seen it kneel down and take it by FS2020. I'm just a realist.

Yeah I agree with that. We aren't getting native 4k/60FPS/RT this gen and we probably won't even get it next gen.

 

[Interfectum]

Shitty framerate and laughable resolution is a bit disappointing. Happy now.

It's a simple action game / PS5 native / and failed smoothly in two basic parameters.

DF did not say it had 'shitty frame rate' and said it was as locked as console games usually are.

 

[SLB1904]

PC, I have no need for an Xbox.

that's what some people don't seem to get.

 

[Werewolfgrandma]

How the fuck i can be wrong if there is no upscaling in this game, yet you trying to spin it

RECONSTRUCTION IS UPSCALING

 

[muteZX]

Better looking is subjective. Performing is objective. If these studios can't do native 4k/60 because the hardware just doesn't have the power, then we need to accept that. It's nothing wrong with the consoles having limitations where the devs have to optimize around it. But we definitely shouldn't expect 4k/60 + Full on RT + max particles + streaming SSD + .. .. it's just not going to happen. That's all I'm saying and have said. People want hardware to do it all - but it just won't. Even my 3090 is slow to me. I've seen it kneel down and take it by FS2020. I'm just a realist.

Start learning BASIC, kiddo and I mean it. PS5 can do 4K or 8K games .. no sweat and you should know very well what is the catch ..

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

RECONSTRUCTION IS UPSCALING

That is correct... Unless you reconstruct to a lower resolution, which it would then be downscaling. But that isn't the case here.

 

[Trainsmove]

I don't own a PS5.

So why are you capping for it much?

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Why is it that certain fans are more concerned with numbers (teraflops, pixels, whatever bean you want to count) than the actual final results?

Because it is annoying when Xbox is dragged over the coals over resolution?
When PS has native resolution - resolution matters and everybody can recognized it from the mile away
When PS has 30 fps - it is the cinematic experience.
When PS has non-native resolution - resolution doesn't matter.

I mean it is just fair. For example in the beginning people were constantly laughing at Xbox multi platform games and were mocking "the tools". And now we know that resolution doesn't matter so when people were mocking The Medium for having the lower resolution while rendering two screens at time - I guess resolution matter, but months ago - it doesn't.


One interesting thing though - considering the upscaling, I wonder if some techniques could be applied to BC in Xbox. Would be neat.

 

[muteZX]

DF did not say it had 'shitty frame rate' and said it was as locked as console games usually are.

I said that .. and I plays games longer than DF mumbos .. a framerate below 60 should be TABU for this game. I'm expecting a quick fix patch. It is a shame.

 

[Mr Moose]

Yeah no. If console were able to produce native 4k you would see the difference. In fact that low native resolution might explain why the game is so dark.

I think they meant better than a native 1080p output.