• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

[Jeff Grubb - VentureBeat] PlayStation boss Jim Ryan needs to create a better narrative

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
Seems like a narrative that's only circulating through the hardcore community... or am I wrong? If this is so wide spread, shouldn't sales/numbers be dropping? shouldn't this be more... of a bigger deal?

Its 100% manufactured BS.

PS5 is selling every unit they can manufacture, they are doing so well they are literally giving games away with their "Play at home" campaign, this month has another noteworthy exclusive in the new Abe's odyssey game, (also "free" on PS+), and upcoming we have plenty of announced titles for both PS4 and PS5.

Seems to me there's there's plenty to be positive about if you are on PS4 or PS5. Especially in a month coming up where we have the Nier remaster and the new Res Evil to look forward to. And lets face it, the PS sku's of both those titles are going to outsell their Xbox equivalents by a huge margin.
 

Zog

Banned
In 6 months time people will dig up these threads and it will be so cringeworthy. People are really losing all of their rational thinking abilities. Obviously its being stoked by a few people on here who take delight in anything negative.
...or in 6 months you won't dig them up because things didn't go your way.
 

Zoro7

Banned
James Sawyer Ford James Sawyer Ford Watch the Colin podcast. He's far more harsh, but a lot of cohesive in his arguments.



Frankly this terrified me. Colin is a big Sony fanboy so he's coming from the same place. This weird nagging feeling that there are just not talking to us. The way they are killing PS3 and Vita stores, its just shocking. How they give us release dates for games, and then dont follow up on them. Forget horizon making 2021, not even the most hardcore sony fans believe the fact that GoW will be coming out this year like sony said just 8 months ago. They are failing to excite gamers. They have just sat on their ass for months. I was super hyped after the PS5 launch, and now I feel nothing. I dont want to turn on my playstation. There is nothing to look forward to and just bad news after another. Studio shutdowns, store shutdowns, exclusives going free on other platforms, rumors after rumors of devs ending decades long relationships with them.

It's getting exhausting and this guy is just sitting there doing nothing. Not a single word. He wont even release sales figures of games and consoles. Like FFS give us something. How can a guy from marketing be this bad at creating excitement. It's literally the only thing he's good at, its literally the reason why he got hired as CEO. It sure as hell wasnt his game development skills. Why even hire him if narrative isnt important, if marketing isnt important, if generating excitement isnt important? If the console will sell anyway why hire a marketing CEO?

Get a grip man. Coronavirus should terrify you not the leadership of PlayStation.
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
...or in 6 months you won't dig them up because things didn't go your way.

What's going to happen in the next 6 months that has happened over the last 8 years? MS are going to have a new Halo out maybe, and probably another Forza... oh yeah, and a whole lot of promises as per usual.

Seriously, how much have MS actually gained from all this expenditure? A bunch of Zenimax titles they would have had on their platform anyway? They actually aren't going to offer Xbox owners much more than they would have had anyway, all they've gained is the ability to ensure the competition gets less. Whoopity-doo! Such great industry leadership from Phil Spencer.
 

vivftp

Member
James Sawyer Ford James Sawyer Ford Watch the Colin podcast. He's far more harsh, but a lot of cohesive in his arguments.



Frankly this terrified me. Colin is a big Sony fanboy so he's coming from the same place. This weird nagging feeling that there are just not talking to us. The way they are killing PS3 and Vita stores, its just shocking. How they give us release dates for games, and then dont follow up on them. Forget horizon making 2021, not even the most hardcore sony fans believe the fact that GoW will be coming out this year like sony said just 8 months ago. They are failing to excite gamers. They have just sat on their ass for months. I was super hyped after the PS5 launch, and now I feel nothing. I dont want to turn on my playstation. There is nothing to look forward to and just bad news after another. Studio shutdowns, store shutdowns, exclusives going free on other platforms, rumors after rumors of devs ending decades long relationships with them.

It's getting exhausting and this guy is just sitting there doing nothing. Not a single word. He wont even release sales figures of games and consoles. Like FFS give us something. How can a guy from marketing be this bad at creating excitement. It's literally the only thing he's good at, its literally the reason why he got hired as CEO. It sure as hell wasnt his game development skills. Why even hire him if narrative isnt important, if marketing isnt important, if generating excitement isnt important? If the console will sell anyway why hire a marketing CEO?


Friend, your posts make me sad for you. Sony on the other hand is doing better than ever and I'm over the moon for their prospects going forward.

May I suggest taking a wee bit of a break from all the forums and console warring and strange narratives for a while?
 

Zog

Banned
What's going to happen in the next 6 months that has happened over the last 8 years? MS are going to have a new Halo out maybe, and probably another Forza... oh yeah, and a whole lot of promises as per usual.

Seriously, how much have MS actually gained from all this expenditure? A bunch of Zenimax titles they would have had on their platform anyway? They actually aren't going to offer Xbox owners much more than they would have had anyway, all they've gained is the ability to ensure the competition gets less. Whoopity-doo! Such great industry leadership from Phil Spencer.
This isn't about Microsoft, it's about Sony and many people seem to think that they are shooting themselves in the foot. Remember last gen when Microsoft shot themselves in the foot and it didn't require much effort on Sony's part to capitalize on it?

Whatever though, you seem to think you are Nostradamus or something so carry on.
 
This smear campaign is getting out of hand. Sony has been putting out more games, both indies and AAA's than Microsoft in the last 3 years combined. Yet the narrative that's being pushed is ridiculous and people fall for it.

Crazy world we live in.
You people really think there is some sort of co-ordinated effort to shit on PlayStation??

Sony is doing it to themselves.....you can chop features and shut down things without scrutiny.....if ms was doing it there would be multiple threads on it but people are still happy to drag out crap from 10 years ago to fit their narrative

the bottom line is Sony is simply taking things away and is offering nothing back in return....Jim’s sitting on his hands and on paper it should have one of the strongest launch lineups in ps history but nothing has release dates...the console availability is still crap...the os is still hot garbage and the other side is literally throwing money at everything and offering the same exclusive titles you pay 70$ for for free

I don’t see how you can get any sort of good news out of that...Sony deserves the heat
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
This isn't about Microsoft, it's about Sony and many people seem to think that they are shooting themselves in the foot. Remember last gen when Microsoft shot themselves in the foot and it didn't require much effort on Sony's part to capitalize on it?

Whatever though, you seem to think you are Nostradamus or something so carry on.

I couldn't give a toss what fanboys think, no matter which platform they stan for.

"Many" people seem to think that releasing a couple of older titles on PC is a bad move, when its literally impossible to rationally argue that the negatives outnumber the positives in a business sense. Its just more retarded "feelings over facts" argumentation.

And look, here's the plain truth. In order for Xbox to close the gap on Playstation they have to start performing way better in Europe and Asia. Xbox has always been competitive in the US, even as far back as the original Xbox they did ok to good there.

So if you want to predict the future, it stands to reason that you need to look at the moves they've made recently in light of how they will affect competitiveness in those markets. And guess what? Nothing they've done, no developer they've bought, is likely to shift the balance of power outside of the US. This is why I doubt we'll see that much of a sea-change this gen, and certainly not due to actions undertaken to this point.

I'm not "predicting the future" I'm just observing the situation and extrapolating based on historic trends.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Friend, your posts make me sad for you. Sony on the other hand is doing better than ever and I'm over the moon for their prospects going forward.

May I suggest taking a wee bit of a break from all the forums and console warring and strange narratives for a while?
sony is doing better than ever. good for sony.

i dont own sony stock. i am not a sony suit. i dont get a cut of the profits. maybe you are. and maybe you do. i just get the games, and i am no longer getting the games that made me a ps fan. and the promise of cross gen games, and billions in profits does not excite people like me, Colin Moriarity, the Ign's playstation podcast host Jonathon Dornbus, and others here on gaf. singling me out as a console warrior peddling a narrative is hilarious seeing as how the forum is literally on fire right now with half a dozen threads criticizing sony's latest moves. this kind of manipulative behavior might work on era, not here. you either reply to my post with actual arguments, rebuttals or dont reply at all.

P.S Dont feel sad for me... i dont think about you at all.
 
maxresdefault.jpg


I don't know what the fuck I'm even looking at. Jim Ryan doesn't need to do shit.

Jeff Grubb needs to not look like a Grubb and then maybe I'll take him seriously.

Just look at this thing. What. am. I. looking. at ?!

 
Last edited:

Ryu_Joestar

Member
Hey i didn't know Sony fans had become more excited for the company eventual profits rather than the actual games (y'know brand new games, developed exclusively for your console by you, not some kind of false exclusive charade from some deals with third party developers to cope with your studios closures and strange decisions). Sure PlayStation has become a strange cult thing these days, even questionable CEOs worshipping, wow.

Great days are coming for PS5 with this kind of open-minded, brilliant, not at all biased mentality

qKMnggH.png
 
Last edited:

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
You people really think there is some sort of co-ordinated effort to shit on PlayStation??

Sony is doing it to themselves.....you can chop features and shut down things without scrutiny.....if ms was doing it there would be multiple threads on it but people are still happy to drag out crap from 10 years ago to fit their narrative

the bottom line is Sony is simply taking things away and is offering nothing back in return....Jim’s sitting on his hands and on paper it should have one of the strongest launch lineups in ps history but nothing has release dates...the console availability is still crap...the os is still hot garbage and the other side is literally throwing money at everything and offering the same exclusive titles you pay 70$ for for free

I don’t see how you can get any sort of good news out of that...Sony deserves the heat
It's really bizarre. First they dismiss you because you are just a nerd on a video game forum. Your opinion doesn't matter.

Then the press joins in and now it becomes a co-ordinated effort? A conspiracy against playstation?

Here is a list of Sony's screw ups just in the last few weeks.
- Shuts down PS3 and Vita stores without even giving devs an advance notice.
- Shuts down or sorry restructures Japan Studios. Creative director of Demon Souls remake leaves.
- Allows MLB the show to go on gamepass without offering it on PS+.
- Cancels Days Gone 2
- Greenlights TLOU remake for some bizarre reason
- Has Naughty dog work on it instead of working on new games
- Just sitting there as Microsoft steals Bethesda, ID software, and half a dozen other third party studios

The last one is a bit unfair because i dont expect or want sony to go buy bethesda or ubisoft in retaliation, but they have to show what they are doing to mitigate some of that loss. easy thing to do would be to confirm continued partnerships with studios like kojipro and bluepoint, but its been six months and nothing has come other than rumors that they are going to MS. its really bad PR, but we are to blame? journalists like colin who have been sony fanboys for decades? my posting history goes back 21 years across forums that can only be accessed on web archive. if i am a ms astroturfer, i am doing a piss poor job of being one.

this is fake kaz's new tweet. is he a ms astroturfer creating a narrative?

 
If you have a few minutes watch the first few minutes where he actually talks about why the article might feel slanted. The jist of it is that its interesting to talk about Sony potentially stumbling vs praising Sony for AAA games over and over again like a broken record.

He also clarifies the bit about indie games. It's not that Sony isnt investing in those games. He mentions how they get state of play slots and ps blog posts, he is putting them in context with Sony's first party studios and why Japan Studio found itself on the short end of the stick. He's talking specifically about games with that fancy Marvel like PS logo and Sony dont want smaller weirder shit that comes out Japan studios associated with that.



The rest of the stuff is about Jim Ryan just doing a piss poor job with the marketing and the fans. He brought up how he almost never talks about the games hes trying to sell. How he just doesnt feel like he engages with the ps userbase like the other execs did who famously went after gamers by focusing on what they wanted. TBH, I agree. I think he does a piss poor job selling these games. Selling the playstation experience. He goes missing 6 months at a time. I remember how you and I went nuts when we heard they delayed the PS5 conference during the George Floyd protests. In retrospect, its because we were starved for something. Anything. We had gone 2 full years without a sony conference. 2 years.

And now we are supposed to wait a year to see Horizon and GT7? We are supposed to be ok with just a title for GoW? For 8 months?

It's just trash. You control the narrative by engaging with the fanbase or by doing regular press or conferences. Hes doing none of those things. I keep saying this but all he has to do is show us what hes got cooking. He hides like an anti-social boy for months at a time. He doesnt let his teams talk about the game. Everything is a state secret. Would it kill them to release some info on Horizon or gow? a screenshot? look at the tlou remake blew up in his face. no one wants that shit. show us that cares about what ps gamers want. And we want more of the same. Kojima. Bloodborne. bluepoint. Days Gone. Hes just so out of touch. or rather he feels like hes out of touch which is what Jeff is trying to say.


The problem with all of this discussion is that you're discussing worthless things like "narratives" rather than actual facts about what's actually happening. Frankly, I don't give a shit about narratives. You are not entitled to be spoon fed information all the time, particularly not in a COVID type environment where it may not be easy to throw up some slick trailer every few months for every game.

"Secretive Sony" isn't a Jim Ryan phenomenon either; it started occurring under Shawn Layden. The December Playstation blowouts started going away. We started getting less frequent updates about their AAA games. He isn't hiding, he's just keeping his teams as focused as possible on making games rather than making marketing material during an extremely challenging time period.

How is this any different from what Phil Spencer has been doing? He's been even more secretive. We've got literally nothing substantial on any of their next-gen games other than some CG trailers.

The results honestly speak for themself; PS5 is extremely strong out of the gate, selling out everywhere, probably won't even be easy to find until 2022. Until there's a reason to be worried, I'm not going to be. They have Returnal this month, Ratchet in June, and then hopefully Horizon later in the year. More than you can say about ANY of their competition. Jim Ryan has had to make some difficult decisions lately, but they were not his own to make. Hermen Hulst leads the WWS group, and collectively they decided it was better to not make Gravity Daze type titles in Japan and re-focus on bolstering Team Asobi. Tough decision, but the right decision. SCEJ had so much dead weight that were not very efficient at making games or were just completely unappealing globally.

2022 is also looking pretty stellar with Forspoken, Final Fantasy 16, God of War, and GT7, precisely at the time they need to unleash heavy hitters into the market with better PS5 supply.

James Sawyer Ford James Sawyer Ford Watch the Colin podcast. He's far more harsh, but a lot of cohesive in his arguments.



Frankly this terrified me. Colin is a big Sony fanboy so he's coming from the same place. This weird nagging feeling that there are just not talking to us. The way they are killing PS3 and Vita stores, its just shocking. How they give us release dates for games, and then dont follow up on them. Forget horizon making 2021, not even the most hardcore sony fans believe the fact that GoW will be coming out this year like sony said just 8 months ago. They are failing to excite gamers. They have just sat on their ass for months. I was super hyped after the PS5 launch, and now I feel nothing. I dont want to turn on my playstation. There is nothing to look forward to and just bad news after another. Studio shutdowns, store shutdowns, exclusives going free on other platforms, rumors after rumors of devs ending decades long relationships with them.

It's getting exhausting and this guy is just sitting there doing nothing. Not a single word. He wont even release sales figures of games and consoles. Like FFS give us something. How can a guy from marketing be this bad at creating excitement. It's literally the only thing he's good at, its literally the reason why he got hired as CEO. It sure as hell wasnt his game development skills. Why even hire him if narrative isnt important, if marketing isnt important, if generating excitement isnt important? If the console will sell anyway why hire a marketing CEO?


You give Jim Ryan far to much credit for what he can honestly "do" in his role, especially in such a short period of time. These big AAAA projects were being worked on well before he became president. He's a marketing guy and a figurehead. The people on the ground floor at these massive studios are the ones putting in the work that will determine whether their projects succeed or fail, but luckily he believes that they should take the time to make them right instead of rushing them out like CP2077.

Sure, he can make restructuring changes like SCEJ, but that was honestly a positive in my book. Bend Studio is working on their most ambitious project yet and a new IP, that's exciting to me. He signed Haven to a deal, that's potentially exciting. The jury is still out on Bluepoint and Kojima, but given their heritage together I find it highly unlikely that they would sign exclusively anywhere else. Multiplat? Sure, but that's no big deal in the grand scheme of things.
 
Last edited:

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
The problem with all of this discussion is that you're discussing worthless things like "narratives" rather than actual facts about what's actually happening. Frankly, I don't give a shit about narratives. You are not entitled to be spoon fed information all the time, particularly not in a COVID type environment where it may not be easy to throw up some slick trailer every few months for every game.

"Secretive Sony" isn't a Jim Ryan phenomenon either; it started occurring under Shawn Layden. The December Playstation blowouts started going away. We started getting less frequent updates about their AAA games. He isn't hiding, he's just keeping his teams as focused as possible on making games rather than making marketing material during an extremely challenging time period.

How is this any different from what Phil Spencer has been doing? He's been even more secretive. We've got literally nothing substantial on any of their next-gen games other than some CG trailers.

The results honestly speak for themself; PS5 is extremely strong out of the gate, selling out everywhere, probably won't even be easy to find until 2022. Until there's a reason to be worried, I'm not going to be. They have Returnal this month, Ratchet in June, and then hopefully Horizon later in the year. More than you can say about ANY of their competition. Jim Ryan has had to make some difficult decisions lately, but they were not his own to make. Hermen Hulst leads the WWS group, and collectively they decided it was better to not make Gravity Daze type titles in Japan and re-focus on bolstering Team Asobi. Tough decision, but the right decision. SCEJ had so much dead weight that were not very efficient at making games or were just completely unappealing globally.

2022 is also looking pretty stellar with Forspoken, Final Fantasy 16, God of War, and GT7, precisely at the time they need to unleash heavy hitters into the market with better PS5 supply.



You give Jim Ryan far to much credit for what he can honestly "do" in his role, especially in such a short period of time. These big AAAA projects were being worked on well before he became president. He's a marketing guy and a figurehead. The people on the ground floor at these massive studios are the ones putting in the work that will determine whether their projects succeed or fail, but luckily he believes that they should take the time to make them right instead of rushing them out like CP2077.

Sure, he can make restructuring changes like SCEJ, but that was honestly a positive in my book. Bend Studio is working on their most ambitious project yet and a new IP, that's exciting to me. He signed Haven to a deal, that's potentially exciting. The jury is still out on Bluepoint and Kojima, but given their heritage together I find it highly unlikely that they would sign exclusively anywhere else. Multiplat? Sure, but that's no big deal in the grand scheme of things.
I actually think narratives matter because thats directly tied to marketing. If marketing didnt matter then why would studios spend more than the budget of the game on marketing the game? If marketing didnt matter then why even give Jim Ryan a job? Surely he impressed someone with his marketing skills. creating excitement and generating buzz. So if marketing does matter then surely so do narratives and the whims of entitled fanboys on the internet. otherwise, why bother spending millions if not billions on marketing?

As for Phil, i hear from him all the time. It's too much for my liking but he's there if people want to clarify somethings like wtf is going on with bethesda games. He beat around the bush a bit but in the end he came out and said they will be exclusives. I think sometimes just talking to the press is important.

I personally dont want much. Just a few tidbits here and there. Maybe a screenshot or two. Maybe some gameplay details. Some next gen enhancements. something. if the game is being delayed, be honest. I dont think revealing gow with a title and 2021 was all that honest.
 

vivftp

Member
sony is doing better than ever. good for sony.

i dont own sony stock. i am not a sony suit. i dont get a cut of the profits. maybe you are. and maybe you do. i just get the games, and i am no longer getting the games that made me a ps fan. and the promise of cross gen games, and billions in profits does not excite people like me, Colin Moriarity, the Ign's playstation podcast host Jonathon Dornbus, and others here on gaf. singling me out as a console warrior peddling a narrative is hilarious seeing as how the forum is literally on fire right now with half a dozen threads criticizing sony's latest moves. this kind of manipulative behavior might work on era, not here. you either reply to my post with actual arguments, rebuttals or dont reply at all.

P.S Dont feel sad for me... i dont think about you at all.

Just sharing some friendly advice friend.

Getting wrapped up stories about half truths, false narratives, being quick to react and judge based off of very little real information and pretending to have an understanding of how a company is run are just some of the nonsense that's running rampant these days and I see you getting swept up in it. Media personalities and influencers aren't immune to it either.

I guess I'll see ya on the other side once all this nonsense blows over and folks realize it was all blown wildly out of proportion. I'm guessing that'll be sometime around Sony's big Summer event.

Good day. 😃
 
I actually think narratives matter because thats directly tied to marketing. If marketing didnt matter then why would studios spend more than the budget of the game on marketing the game? If marketing didnt matter then why even give Jim Ryan a job? Surely he impressed someone with his marketing skills. creating excitement and generating buzz. So if marketing does matter then surely so do narratives and the whims of entitled fanboys on the internet. otherwise, why bother spending millions if not billions on marketing?

As for Phil, i hear from him all the time. It's too much for my liking but he's there if people want to clarify somethings like wtf is going on with bethesda games. He beat around the bush a bit but in the end he came out and said they will be exclusives. I think sometimes just talking to the press is important.

I personally dont want much. Just a few tidbits here and there. Maybe a screenshot or two. Maybe some gameplay details. Some next gen enhancements. something. if the game is being delayed, be honest. I dont think revealing gow with a title and 2021 was all that honest.

Marketing matters. Perceived narratives don't. 99% of consumers aren't hardcore into the weeds of this stuff like you or I. Drip feeding info actually leads to more hype. There's no data that suggests showing games more frequently leads to greater sales. There was almost no info on Ghost of Tsushima, a new IP, for ages. Even leading up to launch people were not convinced it would do well after a middling State of Play. Then reviewers got the game, it was well received, and went viral at a time people were itching for a great game to play. That's more important than anything.

Jim Ryan is even being fairly open about their future hardware plans so far - showing off the VR controller and announcing the next-gen VR headset. That's not nothing.

You hear from Phil all the time, but it's all used-car-salesman rhetoric. GamePass, GamePass, GamePass. What has he actually talked about, concrete details or new trailers, for next-gen games? Where is Hellblade 2? Fable 2? Halo Infinite? Avowed? Starfield? Who cares if Jim Ryan doesn't do interviews as frequently, it's probably for the better lmao.
 
Full Article: https://venturebeat.com/2021/04/14/playstation-boss-jim-ryan-needs-to-create-a-better-narrative/


Nice Shawn Layden reference.


Jim Ryan is starting to get it from gaming websites now. Not just gaffers and twitter fans (RIP TheAPP99) I wonder if Jim will feel compelled to respond.
Grubb is an xbox fanboy, the guy was pushing how xbox live gold was going away and MS was going to offer free online play before xbox series x launched and it never happened, point it out to him and he'll block you lol.

Sorry but these guys are scouring the forums and then writing articles they know will catch the eyeballs of the members who will feel as if their "worries" have been validated and the guys name will be spread around for clout, it's obvious and it's sad. Just like Schreier pretending he's doing this for the developers and their working conditions, does he ever actually talk about the people who build these machines and are basically treated one step above slave labor? Nope that would take some work and he doesn't want to do that, he'd rather just let developers know they can write to him and complain when they have a bad day and then he can write his next big "article"

What has Ryan actually done so far that has people so worried? We don't know every game they are making yet but it doesn't stop the rampant speculation and it makes no sense. They launched a console with Sackboy's big adventure which isn't meant to be a blockbuster, they've given us Destruction Allstars, Oddworld and the PS5 version of Control as PS+ games among others already for the PS5, they gave away quite a few free ps4 games some of which included PS5 upgrades for free and yet this guy is just destroying everything? PS5 owners are getting Returnal and Ratchet and Clank both PS5 exclusives within the next two months can anyone with another "next gen" console say they are getting 1st party exclusive content or that they've even gotten any at all yet? PlayStation 5 owners can. People need to calm down, stop buying into the nonsense.
 

Brofist

Member
"Sony silence is deafening"

Amazing. I said those exact words in another thread, quoting the last round of MS shilling from 2012/2013.

History repeats itself.

Memba When Mario 64 launched on the N64, Mario was £79.99, in the mid 90s. NINTENDO IS DOOMED!!

Ohh wait.
When N64 came out Sony actually lowered the price of their games to $49.99 to further stick the dagger into Nintendo. Times have changed.

Also I think those carts did actually cost a fair bit to manufacture tbf.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
You hear from Phil all the time, but it's all used-car-salesman rhetoric. GamePass, GamePass, GamePass. What has he actually talked about, concrete details or new trailers, for next-gen games? Where is Hellblade 2? Fable 2? Halo Infinite? Avowed? Starfield? Who cares if Jim Ryan doesn't do interviews as frequently, it's probably for the better lmao.
I get what you're saying about his used car salesman rhetoric, but I feel more optimistic about Microsoft's e3 conference than sony's. As someone who has trashed ms for a better part of 5 years, I find it bizarre to even admit this, but I would be lying if i didnt. i dont know, maybe its putting outriders and mlb the show on gamepass thats showed me hes finally putting his money where his mouth is, but now im thinking bf6 could be a gamepass title if he gets to 25 million subs by november.

I think we will see at least some in-engine trailers of all the cg games they showed last year. plus all the zenimax games, and maybe those koji pro and bluepoint games. I think I am more excited because i know aside from Halo, everything they will show up with is next gen only. It also helps that he's announced that hes going to E3 while sony doesnt even believe in e3 anymore. lol

of course, as you know, if he does not show up with hellblade 2, fable 2, avowed and starfield, I will be joining you for a good round of Microsoft trashing.
 
The problem with all of this discussion is that you're discussing worthless things like "narratives" rather than actual facts about what's actually happening. Frankly, I don't give a shit about narratives. You are not entitled to be spoon fed information all the time, particularly not in a COVID type environment where it may not be easy to throw up some slick trailer every few months for every game.

"Secretive Sony" isn't a Jim Ryan phenomenon either; it started occurring under Shawn Layden. The December Playstation blowouts started going away. We started getting less frequent updates about their AAA games. He isn't hiding, he's just keeping his teams as focused as possible on making games rather than making marketing material during an extremely challenging time period.

How is this any different from what Phil Spencer has been doing? He's been even more secretive. We've got literally nothing substantial on any of their next-gen games other than some CG trailers.

The results honestly speak for themself; PS5 is extremely strong out of the gate, selling out everywhere, probably won't even be easy to find until 2022. Until there's a reason to be worried, I'm not going to be. They have Returnal this month, Ratchet in June, and then hopefully Horizon later in the year. More than you can say about ANY of their competition. Jim Ryan has had to make some difficult decisions lately, but they were not his own to make. Hermen Hulst leads the WWS group, and collectively they decided it was better to not make Gravity Daze type titles in Japan and re-focus on bolstering Team Asobi. Tough decision, but the right decision. SCEJ had so much dead weight that were not very efficient at making games or were just completely unappealing globally.

2022 is also looking pretty stellar with Forspoken, Final Fantasy 16, God of War, and GT7, precisely at the time they need to unleash heavy hitters into the market with better PS5 supply.



You give Jim Ryan far to much credit for what he can honestly "do" in his role, especially in such a short period of time. These big AAAA projects were being worked on well before he became president. He's a marketing guy and a figurehead. The people on the ground floor at these massive studios are the ones putting in the work that will determine whether their projects succeed or fail, but luckily he believes that they should take the time to make them right instead of rushing them out like CP2077.

Sure, he can make restructuring changes like SCEJ, but that was honestly a positive in my book. Bend Studio is working on their most ambitious project yet and a new IP, that's exciting to me. He signed Haven to a deal, that's potentially exciting. The jury is still out on Bluepoint and Kojima, but given their heritage together I find it highly unlikely that they would sign exclusively anywhere else. Multiplat? Sure, but that's no big deal in the grand scheme of things.
QMkPpxPDYY0fu.gif
 

EDMIX

Member
Jim doesn't need to respond to anything that idiot Jeff Grubb writes. That guy is a clown. I stopped reading at the indie part in this. PlayStation has been pushing indies very hard. Go look at their two PS5 showcases last year or any State of Play over the past 2 years. Go look at how they're putting brand-new indie games on PS+ Day 1. Go look at how they'll have a whole day of new indie game announcements on the PlayStation Blog that gets pushed to their tens of millions of fans on Twitter, Facebook and Youtube. This clown has no idea what he is talking about. Probably mad that Sony doesn't leak things for him to talk about in his dumbass Summer Games mess thing. It hurts his ego


True. PS5's games reveal was filled with indies. Some of my most hype games I'm looking forward to are indies from that showcase so I don't know what that drunk is talking about lol

NearIncredibleHoneycreeper-max-1mb.gif


hk_wip_03_2017.gif
 
I get what you're saying about his used car salesman rhetoric, but I feel more optimistic about Microsoft's e3 conference than sony's. As someone who has trashed ms for a better part of 5 years, I find it bizarre to even admit this, but I would be lying if i didnt. i dont know, maybe its putting outriders and mlb the show on gamepass thats showed me hes finally putting his money where his mouth is, but now im thinking bf6 could be a gamepass title if he gets to 25 million subs by november.

I think we will see at least some in-engine trailers of all the cg games they showed last year. plus all the zenimax games, and maybe those koji pro and bluepoint games. I think I am more excited because i know aside from Halo, everything they will show up with is next gen only. It also helps that he's announced that hes going to E3 while sony doesnt even believe in e3 anymore. lol

of course, as you know, if he does not show up with hellblade 2, fable 2, avowed and starfield, I will be joining you for a good round of Microsoft trashing.

Nobody knows how these E3 events are going to shake out. If Microsoft has a great conference! Awesome! I hope they do. I hope Sony knocks it out of the park.

But until we see what their events are, it's wishful thinking. Last year Sony had the only good Showcase events, period. Based on prior history, I'm going to assume they will be equal or better than their competition this year.

Remember when Phil talked a big game after Sony's PS5 showcase? He said he "felt good" after that showing, whatever that means. And then they had an absolutely fucking awful event.
 
Last edited:
True. PS5's games reveal was filled with indies. Some of my most hype games I'm looking forward to are indies from that showcase so I don't know what that drunk is talking about lol

NearIncredibleHoneycreeper-max-1mb.gif


hk_wip_03_2017.gif

Yep. All their "Indie" type games revealed thus far have looked extremely impressive. Shu is basically going for these large-indies that may be more expensive to make and can take risks. I like it.
 
Just sharing some friendly advice friend.

Getting wrapped up stories about half truths, false narratives, being quick to react and judge based off of very little real information and pretending to have an understanding of how a company is run are just some of the nonsense that's running rampant these days and I see you getting swept up in it. Media personalities and influencers aren't immune to it either.

I guess I'll see ya on the other side once all this nonsense blows over and folks realize it was all blown wildly out of proportion. I'm guessing that'll be sometime around Sony's big Summer event.

Good day. 😃
Do you know something? You don't have to tell me you know something that Sony's got cooking.

I'm of the opinion that this PS silence is lovely and because they're silent, I can expect BIG announcements when they do decide to talk. Of course I'm not in a hurry for any new stuff. I'll let them take their time to craft whatever message they're preparing.

Covid honestly has made some people go crazy. It has taught me patience.
 

Rat Rage

Member
Games "journalism" is getting deperate. Oh well, I guess they have to generate the clicks somehow...
 
Last edited:

EDMIX

Member
Do you know something? You don't have to tell me you know something that Sony's got cooking.

I'm of the opinion that this PS silence is lovely and because they're silent, I can expect BIG announcements when they do decide to talk. Of course I'm not in a hurry for any new stuff. I'll let them take their time to craft whatever message they're preparing.

Covid honestly has made some people go crazy. It has taught me patience.

Agreed. The biggest issue I have is when Sony was telling us of games YEARS OUT, folks are like "day announcing it too earlyz doe". Several publishers have told us they are going to be more silent about what they announce and only show around launch window. Ubisoft, Bethesda after Fallout 4, Sony etc. The criticism regarding showing games too early has been heard by many publishers.

Now that they are silent, now its bad suddenly lol

JUST like how they did the PS5 reveal. I think they are correct to STFU and ONLY speak when they have solid info to share. That type of marketing only built up hype and didn't lead people into waiting years for something. So I think how they are giving out info is completely fine. No one is buying games based on HOW someone is revealing something, its just not that big of a deal to the point of losing costumers or fake outrage etc

Thats like me saying I won't buy Sega games cause they not telling me about the next Yakuza or Persona or something, shit I'll get hype when they tell me and buy it at release, when they tell me is their business lol
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Remember when Phil talked a big game after Sony's PS5 showcase? He said he "felt good" after that showing, whatever that means. And then they had an absolutely fucking awful event.
yeah, i remember that. i dont think he really understands what a good show means. its about gameplay.

i hope we see more gameplay from both. horizon, gow and factions should all be there but i hope sony gives them a nice 6-8 minute demo like they used to in 2015-2018. its ok for conferences to go longer than an hour. people wait an entire year for them.

i also wish they would just come out and confirm if these games are being downported to ps4 before the conference so we can manage our expectations. i just rewatched the horizon trailer and i dont see how its possible on the ps4.



sncvsrtoip sncvsrtoip pointed out that it was game engine footage or something, but there was so much footage of so many different scenes that i dont know if it was a cg or even a pre-rendered in-engine cutscene. there are clearly a.i systems and rendering systems that someone coded to make this gif happen.
 
Last edited:
Agreed. The biggest issue I have is when Sony was telling us of games YEARS OUT, folks are like "day announcing it too earlyz doe". Several publishers have told us they are going to be more silent about what they announce and only show around launch window. Ubisoft, Bethesda after Fallout 4, Sony etc. The criticism regarding showing games too early has been heard by many publishers.

Now that they are silent, now its bad suddenly lol

JUST like how they did the PS5 reveal. I think they are correct to STFU and ONLY speak when they have solid info to share. That type of marketing only built up hype and didn't lead people into waiting years for something. So I think how they are giving out info is completely fine. No one is buying games based on HOW someone is revealing something, its just not that big of a deal to the point of losing costumers or fake outrage etc

Thats like me saying I won't buy Sega games cause they not telling me about the next Yakuza or Persona or something, shit I'll get hype when they tell me and buy it at release, when they tell me is their business lol
True.
Sony admitted to making mistakes in announcing games way in advance and is looking to adopt the Apple approach in announcing stuff closer to launch.
Honestly I'm cool with whatever. Just as long as they keep delivering big AAAA blockbusters then I'm good.
People just need to be patient.
 
yeah, i remember that. i dont think he really understands what a good show means. its about gameplay.

i hope we see more gameplay from both. horizon, gow and factions should all be there but i hope sony gives them a nice 6-8 minute demo like they used to in 2015-2018. its ok for conferences to go longer than an hour. people wait an entire year for them.

i also wish they would just come out and confirm if these games are being downported to ps4 before the conference so we can manage our expectations. i just rewatched the horizon trailer and i dont see how its possible on the ps4.



sncvsrtoip sncvsrtoip pointed out that it was game engine footage or something, but there was so much footage of so many different scenes that i dont know if it was a cg or even a pre-rendered in-engine cutscene. there are clearly a.i systems and rendering systems that someone coded to make this gif happen.


I’ve heard some absolutely crazy things about Horizon 2 from a trusted source, it is sounding pretty wildly ambitious. Pretty sure it’ll blow minds when it’s revealed again.
 

NikuNashi

Member
You think I want Sony to go out of business? Are you projecting?

Makes no sense, first you say I have a 'way' insinuating that if the rumors in this thread (Sony future being grim) are true then that would not be my way. Then you say I'm projecting that I want Sony to go out of business, so which is it, do I want Sony's future to be grim or go out of business? can you clarify my thoughts please.
 

demigod

Member
When N64 came out Sony actually lowered the price of their games to $49.99 to further stick the dagger into Nintendo. Times have changed.

Also I think those carts did actually cost a fair bit to manufacture tbf.
Games were $49.99. MS raised it to $59.99. Sony lowered their first party games to $39.99 some time during the PS2.
 

bitbydeath

Member
Here is a list of Sony's screw ups just in the last few weeks.
- Shuts down PS3 and Vita stores without even giving devs an advance notice.
- Shuts down or sorry restructures Japan Studios. Creative director of Demon Souls remake leaves.
- Allows MLB the show to go on gamepass without offering it on PS+.
- Cancels Days Gone 2
- Greenlights TLOU remake for some bizarre reason
- Has Naughty dog work on it instead of working on new games
- Just sitting there as Microsoft steals Bethesda, ID software, and half a dozen other third party studios
There’s aren’t accurate either though and are getting taken as fact.

-It may only be the shop fronts closing.
-Restructured Japan but their biggest games of last-gen were Knack 1 & 2. BluePoint were the devs behind Demon Souls
-MLB going to MS is out of Sonys hands, but that move may bite MLB back if Sony decides against making more of them
-Jasons rumour was debunked, Days Gone 2 was still in production as of last year
-TLOU remake is only a rumour
-Sony have since partnered with From Softwares parent and invested in Epic Games
 
Last edited:

Saaleh

Banned
I love how Layden is now heralded after years of being told what a shit job he was doing

And before that it was Jack Tretton copping all the flack. Then he leaves and becomes popular

And before that it was Kaz Hirai who became the meme of the internet and wasn’t living up to Kutaragi but is now beloved

What I find interesting about this blatant, well coordinated, smear job campaign against PlayStation is the timing. First it was power, then overheating, then rdna1 then gamespass, now Jim Ryan is incompetent. Let’s recap:
2019
-Before next gen consoles were talked about we’d get an almost daily article from some media figure about how cloud gaming was the future and Xbox was set to dominate.
-PlayStation out of the blue releases articles talking about the ssd, the cpu, and a rdna2 gpu.
-Xbox out of the blue follows up and shows the series x at the game awards.
2020:
-All we hear about is 12 teraflops and rdna 2. 12 teraflops became a religion, which is funny because we barely even mention it now.
-Sony doesn’t immediately respond. Xbox fanboys start a narrative of “They’re doomed, caught off guard, heat issues.”
-Show reveals ps5. Not 12 teraflops but not a bad peice of hardware.
“Rdna 1, heat issues, way too expensive ssd”
-Xbox may and June shows are both duds
-June Ps5 reveal, 2 consoles discless surprises many.
-Another ps5 event, pretty good
-Bethesda bombshell right before preorders
Games finally come out and there’s no difference between most of them, sometimes Ps5 getting the advantage.

So 2021:
Ps5 is outselling the series s/x 2:1
Ps5 games are up to par so the tools narrative happens.

After the power narrative fizzled it’s now about the onslaught of “gamespass game pass gamespass” and Sony is doomed because of that.

So now the new narrative is Jim Ryan is incompetent and THATS why Sony is doomed.

Look, Xbox is desperate. They’ve spent a lot of money and they need to show results. They have no software so they need the Jeff Grubbs and Twitter army to spread doom and gloom about Sony before the lead becomes insurmountable and its an Xbox one generation repeat.
Is Jim Ryan and PlayStation out of touch? Maybe? But is there a well coordinated smear campaign against PlayStation? Absolutely.
Exactly, there is no question that Jim Ryan is doing mistakes (e.g. embracing crossgen, sacrificing a bit of the wow factor and the excitement for better financial outcome, this is a win for sony but a bit of a loss for gamers). But even than, In reality, compared to the sX in the first 2 years, Jim Ryan isn't doing that bad compared to PS4 CEOs. There is still wow factor (with UE5 / unique ssd / future exclusives / VR2 ). There is still tons of exclusives. 1 or 2 fulfilling exclusives and that will break the narrative that Jim Ryan needs to be fired or needs to convert playstation into GP. For me, [Demon Souls, Ratchet RA, Horizen2, GOW2, GT7, Kena] will feel like at least a 1 fulfilling game like killzone 2.

Microsoft obviously controls the media, they always had that PR power, they are taking it to the next level using GP, Now that ms stopped competing in terms of exclusives and hardware sales, now they want sony to compete with GP, so ms creating doubt in people so that sony starts to also break into a subscribe service and lose focus.

-GP is promising because it may allow for the chance for developers to take more cheap chances, that is great in a sense but it didn't happen yet for xbox, the media speaks like ms actually did it. If they ever achieve it, it will have a charm but it doesn't mean that this charm is greater than what PS5 is offering.
-GP is a bit better option compared to X1 [PC gamers even get extra treat] but in reality [ keeping in mind the past present future] GP is truly a downgrade compared to xbox 360 days [no matter what the ''value'' we get from GP]. If people really hate on how sony stopped supporting ps3/vita..etc then they should be afraid of a service like GP. Digital services will all die at some point. It is awful but painful truth. We can and should ask sony or ms to delay (i.e. with ''preservation'') but in the end it will happen with all online services.

That's why Jim Ryan is still doing fine, he needs to face this PR campaign but also compensate in 2022-2023 with wow factor and he will do more than fine in the eyes of the people. I hope he hold up.
 
Last edited:
Hey i didn't know Sony fans had become more excited for the company eventual profits rather than the actual games (y'know brand new games, developed exclusively for your console by you, not some kind of false exclusive charade from some deals with third party developers to cope with your studios closures and strange decisions). Sure PlayStation has become a strange cult thing these days, even questionable CEOs worshipping, wow.

Great days are coming for PS5 with this kind of open-minded, brilliant, not at all biased mentality

qKMnggH.png
I want them to make a profit so they can keep making the kinds of games I like, that's kind of how business works lol.
 
yes, he will respond, he will put God of War and Bloodborne on PC :D
Why do people seem to forget that Layden wanted PlayStation games on PC when he was there?

https://thenextweb.com/news/sony-boss-wants-to-bring-first-party-playstation-titles-to-pc/amp

Sony Interactive Entertainment (SIE) boss Shawn Layden yesterday alluded to the possibility that first-party PlayStation titles may soon launch on PC. While there’s nothing clear to go on just yet, the move would make perfect sense for the company as it prepares for the next console war with Microsoft.

The news comes from Business Insider’s Christopher Palmeri who reported that Layden, in an interview, said:

We must support the PlayStation platform — that is nonnegotiable. That said, you will see in the future some titles coming out of my collection of studios which may need to lean into a wider installed base.
 
Last edited:

vivftp

Member
Do you know something? You don't have to tell me you know something that Sony's got cooking.

I'm of the opinion that this PS silence is lovely and because they're silent, I can expect BIG announcements when they do decide to talk. Of course I'm not in a hurry for any new stuff. I'll let them take their time to craft whatever message they're preparing.

Covid honestly has made some people go crazy. It has taught me patience.

I know nothing at all more than the news that's out there, the rumors that are out there and all the speculation that's out there.

That's more than enough for me while I enjoy the games that're coming out and wait for the inevitable big Summer event.
 

Dabaus

Banned
Exactly, there is no question that Jim Ryan is doing mistakes (e.g. embracing crossgen, sacrificing a bit of the wow factor and the excitement for better financial outcome, this is a win for sony but a bit of a loss for gamers). But even than, In reality, compared to the sX in the first 2 years, Jim Ryan isn't doing that bad compared to PS4 CEOs. There is still wow factor (with UE5 / unique ssd / future exclusives / VR2 ). There is still tons of exclusives. 1 or 2 fulfilling exclusives and that will break the narrative that Jim Ryan needs to be fired or needs to convert playstation into GP. For me, [Demon Souls, Ratchet RA, Horizen2, GOW2, GT7, Kena] will feel like at least a 1 fulfilling game like killzone 2.

Microsoft obviously controls the media, they always had that PR power, they are taking it to the next level using GP, Now that ms stopped competing in terms of exclusives and hardware sales, now they want sony to compete with GP, so ms creating doubt in people so that sony starts to also break into a subscribe service and lose focus.

-GP is promising because it may allow for the chance for developers to take more cheap chances, that is great in a sense but it didn't happen yet for xbox, the media speaks like ms actually did it. If they ever achieve it, it will have a charm but it doesn't mean that this charm is greater than what PS5 is offering.
-GP is a bit better option compared to X1 [PC gamers even get extra treat] but in reality [ keeping in mind the past present future] GP is truly a downgrade compared to xbox 360 days [no matter what the ''value'' we get from GP]. If people really hate on how sony stopped supporting ps3/vita..etc then they should be afraid of a service like GP. Digital services will all die at some point. It is awful but painful truth. We can and should ask sony or ms to delay (i.e. with ''preservation'') but in the end it will happen with all online services.

That's why Jim Ryan is still doing fine, he needs to face this PR campaign but also compensate in 2022-2023 with wow factor and he will do more than fine in the eyes of the people. I hope he hold up.
I agree. It’s abundantly clear it’s a media smear job. Gamespass has yet to prove it can be financially viable or sustainable. All we have to go by on it is “trust me bro, it already is” from Phil and the astroturfers. Keep in mind Netflix was running billion dollar deficits for years despite a significantly higher user base, mindshare, and wasn’t running dollar deals. If game pass doesn’t take off, that’s It for Xbox.
It’s also counter intuitive that the media is screeching that Sony match gamespass. If Sony does and it works... where’s that leave Xbox?
 

TheAssist

Member
Is still dont understand the big deal about the PS store closing thing. It seems more emotional than rational. Hardly anyone is buying stuff on there. Seriously can anyone even name someone who has bought something on there in the past few months?

Sony has to get rid of all of the PS3 era online stuff because its a coding hell. That legacy stuff is the reason they couldnt get in the new name ID's for years because PSN back then wasnt coded very well. Getting rid of the PS3 online legacy will enable them to put more modern features into their online system. Something more people want compared to keeping old stores open (but clearly Sony isnt doing what people want am I right?)

And I also dont think the whole game preservation angle fits the narrative here. You cant buy PS1 PS2, or PS3 physical games in stores anymore. Because its not the stores or platform holders job to preserve the games being sold there. I know its a more difficult story with purely digital games, then again most classic games arent being played on physical medium because they got digitalized and played on emulators (because physical media also has a high failure rate at a certain age).

Game preservation will always be the job of the developer and publisher of the game and not the store that sells it. If the dev/pub cares for it, they can send the source code to one of the game preservation libraries that already exist, or publish it on another platform.

If they dont care, why should the store care? A Company is responsible for their own heritage and should not rely on other companies to protect their own history.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Is still dont understand the big deal about the PS store closing thing.
It's not just that one thing in isolation. It's the other stuff that adds to it (like SlimySnake listed above).

So for a game company not long who promoted themselves as anti-DRM, execs passing discs to one another, and #4theplayers, their focus seems to have migrated to mainstream AAA games, COD partnerships (even doing a mobile partnership with Activision and COD competitive play) and non-existent PR. Even going so far as to not even bother doing E3 anymore. The last time they did it was 2018, and that showed focused on 4 key first party games. And hurry up and buy your legacy system games because for cost savings were closing it down.

If anything they are narrowing their focus on games, while at the same time banking giant profits. While 10 years ago, their financials for PS werent great at all, yet they were churning out tons of games and genres across AAA and small budgets.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom