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[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

if its Sega it would be a good fit for Microsoft, maybe help them sell a few more consoles out that way. Sega have some amazing Ips that could be brought back to

Quite a few, really. Panzer Dragoon, Dragon Force, Fighter's Megamix (Sonic, Battletoads, Killer Instict, Doom Guy, Master Chief, Banjo & Kazooie, Ristar etc. characters), Space Harrier/Gunvalkyrie, Crazy Taxi, plus ongoing stuff like Atlus properties (Persona, SMT, Power Instinct) etc.

What I'd really see as beneficial if it happens though is give Team Sonic a break from Sonic and maybe do a sequel/remake for Burning Rangers; great game that was just a bit too much for the Saturn to handle (always was suspect that a sequel didn't come for Dreamcast).

Sega Sammy sells arcade business Sega Entertainment to Genda Inc

Sega Sammy has announced it will sell the majority of its shares in its Sega Entertainment division to Japanese amuseme…

www.gamesindustry.biz

Only part that operated arcade locations.

Yeah, Sega aren't done making games for arcade/FEC markets. They just won't be operating their own building facilities, like Club Sega, anymore. IIRC though the company they sold that to will still be able to use the Sega branding for those locations.

Sega’s Biggest IP is Sonic and even that barely does anything now, I’m not sure about that being Bethesda level, if you’re going for a Japanese publisher then why not go for big fish like SE and Capcom that could actually would make a difference owning them?

Also, aren’t they a publicly traded company? They have to disclose it if something is happening.

Again this isn't about people's own emotions or preferences, it's about what the current evidence is pointing to. That's it. And there's way more pointing to a Sega acquisition than a Capcom or especially Square-Enix one (if anything there would be more evidence of Sony acquiring SE...if such a thing is even in the pipeline).

The Sonic games actually still sell pretty well, and the multimedia around it has done very well. They did just have the Sonic movie last year (probably the most well-received movie based on a game so far, and the highest-grossing movie based on a game as well). The game output has been hit-and-miss: right after a great game like Sonic Mania they decide to follow up with Sonic Forces, then they strip down All-Stars Racing Transformed for Team Sonic Racing. Hopefully they are truly going to stabilize the output going forward.

Outside of that though they have a lot of other things going for them. 13th Sentinel, HOTD Scarlet Dawn (arcade/FEC), Sega World Driver's Championship (arcade/FEC; Japan only), Football Manager, Total War, Persona, Shin Megami Tensei, Hatsune Miku, Streets of Rage 4, the Yakuza series, etc. Their output's honestly on the stronger end of the industry if you take Sonic out of the picture. I do agree that Capcom and Square-Enix have some bigger IP (Resident Evil, Final Fantasy), but Sega's output in terms of quality (ignoring brand IP power) has been more or less on par with the two of them.

Sega's bigger problem has usually been poor marketing or lack of marketing, and boneheaded business decisions to a lesser extent. Problems that've stemmed back to their days as a platform holder in the mid-1990s' tbh. But I think that's mainly been driven more due to relative lack of funds than inability to do it; when the funds were there they've shown multiple times they can do some extremely effective marketing and push for their games, arguably better than Microsoft's ever managed IMHO. So having some of Microsoft's funds available through the Xbox division would be a boon for them.

 

[yurinka]

Ubisoft would be pocket change for Microsoft, I don’t think you realize how much money Microsoft has right now

Also Ubisoft fought for their independence from a hostile takeover not an acquisition there is a big difference.

No, only with the market cap of Ubisoft is ~10B. The value of the company is way higher, and the Guillemot family, many workers and key investors have a big part of the company.

Sure, they fought specially hard because it was hostile, but also because they wanted to keep independent. If they would have wanted or want to sell the company in a friendly way, several companies were or would now be interested because Ubi has great numbers, a good strategic position and potential for the future. Ubi didn't need and didn't want to sell back then, and doesn't want to sell now.

AFAIK They sold arcade division (one that MS is definetelly not interested).

Nope, only the part that operated the arcades. Sega continues making arcade games, pachinko, etc, and these arcades places continue being there, just that the company who runs these arcades (the place, not the games) is another one.

 

[KingT731]

No Microsoft is getting called out for doing the same thing Sony does, remember the uproar when they paid for a year of exclusivity for tomb raider? There was a shit storm on here.

then there was a thread recently of Sony approaching every third part for exclusivity and it was celebrated.

Sony buys studios so does Microsoft. Nobody excusing it it’s just the done thing

If I recall that wasn't the reason for the uproar. It was MS/SE/CD being intentionally obtuse about it and refusing to actually say it was a timed exclusive.

 

[phil_t98]

If I recall that wasn't the reason for the uproar. It was MS/SE/CD being intentionally obtuse about it and refusing to actually say it was a timed exclusive.

Yeah that’s how the deal works, look at Crash Bandicoot remake, no word of Xbox version and a year later it pops up.

no uproar there, it’s just how it is

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Sega? I don't see it. Besides, everyone has been going on for years on how difficult it is for a western company to purchase a Japanese one. Not that I think that they know what they are talking about.

I don't think ubi or EA either.

I am thinking one last big splurge on Take 2 or a smaller one in WB if they are for sale

Take 2 would be way beyond Bethesda/Zenimax-level; their market cap is 22.97 billion, so Microsoft would probably have to pay at least 2x that price given whoever else would be in the bidding, or over $45 billion. It's debatable if it would be worth that cost tbh; outside of GTA and Red Dead what other IP do they have? Also while GTA5 has been one of the biggest evergreen AAA games of the past decade, it's also the ONLY GTA game with that level of selling and revenue/profit power; other GTAs sold very well but weren't near as evergreen, and there's no predicting if GTA6 is going to repeat GTA5's success.

WB's market cap is much lower; $4 billion, that puts them slightly ahead of Sega but lower than Capcom or Square-Enix. MS may pay as much as $8 billion for them but that is roughly in line with Zenimax. The issue with WB Games is...what IP do you get for that? Mortal Kombat for sure, but it seems like a lot for just one IP you'd own. If even one of the major DC superhero IPs came with that, it'd make the buy more lucrative.

If a company were able to secure exclusive game rights to several of the major DC characters/IPs for a period of time (let's say 5 years) with that purchase and get first dibs on securing/extending those exclusive rights (through right of first refusal, IIRC) when the period's almost over at a reasonable price, then that makes WB Games a much better and interesting acquisition for certain, I'd argue potentially more than Sega or even Take-Two Interactive.

Okay then I misunderstood.
What about the arcade IPs, were they sold as well? Daytona, Sega Rally, Virtua Fighter etc

HELLLLL NO . They technically couldn't "sell" Daytona, because that's kind of like getting an F1 or Dakar rally license for games. They're actually doing a sequel (reboot?) of Virtua Fighter. Sega Rally, well it's a dormant IP and will probably stay that way tbh outside of older games being re-released, but there's no reason for them to sell it off.

Billion and trillion dollar companies don't tease sales on twitter with cute pictures of colored controllers.

There'd be an SEC investigation knocking on their door the day after a sale. As much as it romanticizes the process, it is not just unlikely but impossible. You don't get to be a billion/trillion dollar company by playing cute with acquisitions and/or mergers.

I mean, you can say this but there is no proof you can provide that they haven't been in some state of discussion. It's also likely they were not in active phases of discussion at that time, but could renew talks this year. Microsoft have visited Sega in the past about potential acquisitions, after all, they would not need to do things like those Twitter posts during active discussions.

All I'm saying is that, if you look at some of the things Sega-Sammy have been doing WRT restructuring, look at previous discussions between them and Microsoft, look at Microsoft's acquisition attempts and priorities, look at the historical relationship the two companies have had (going back to the Dreamcast), etc., IF there is an acquisition coming about from this there's a very good chance it's Microsoft.

 

[KingT731]

Yeah that’s how the deal works, look at Crash Bandicoot remake, no word of Xbox version and a year later it pops up.

no uproar there, it’s just how it is

Yeah it is "how it works" but the initial company line of "exclusive on Xbox for holiday 2015" was what people had issue with. I think it was rightfully questioned like what does that even mean?

 

[KingT731]

Take 2 would be way beyond Bethesda/Zenimax-level; their market cap is 22.97 billion, so Microsoft would probably have to pay at least 2x that price given whoever else would be in the bidding, or over $45 billion. It's debatable if it would be worth that cost tbh; outside of GTA and Red Dead what other IP do they have? Also while GTA5 has been one of the biggest evergreen AAA games of the past decade, it's also the ONLY GTA game with that level of selling and revenue/profit power; other GTAs sold very well but weren't near as evergreen, and there's no predicting if GTA6 is going to repeat GTA5's success.

WB's market cap is much lower; $4 billion, that puts them slightly ahead of Sega but lower than Capcom or Square-Enix. MS may pay as much as $8 billion for them but that is roughly in line with Zenimax. The issue with WB Games is...what IP do you get for that? Mortal Kombat for sure, but it seems like a lot for just one IP you'd own. If even one of the major DC superhero IPs came with that, it'd make the buy more lucrative.

If a company were able to secure exclusive game rights to several of the major DC characters/IPs for a period of time (let's say 5 years) with that purchase and get first dibs on securing/extending those exclusive rights (through right of first refusal, IIRC) when the period's almost over at a reasonable price, then that makes WB Games a much better and interesting acquisition for certain, I'd argue potentially more than Sega or even Take-Two Interactive.



HELLLLL NO . They technically couldn't "sell" Daytona, because that's kind of like getting an F1 or Dakar rally license for games. They're actually doing a sequel (reboot?) of Virtua Fighter. Sega Rally, well it's a dormant IP and will probably stay that way tbh outside of older games being re-released, but there's no reason for them to sell it off.

Take 2 would include 2K Sports etc as well

 

[Bryank75]

It's inevitable.

I'm happy it's Microsoft and not Sony, Amazon or Google.

Why? PlayStation has over 110 million gamers, Xbox has around 40.....

If you want to get to the most gamers, then you release on PlayStation.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Ubi would be funny because they basically make the same games as sonys first party studios do

 

[Bryank75]

Ubi would be funny because they basically make the same games as sonys first party studios do

What are you talking about? Have you played any Sony first party?

 

[DarkMage619]

Why? PlayStation has over 110 million gamers, Xbox has around 40.....

If you want to get to the most gamers, then you release on PlayStation.

MS caters to PC game players too. Sony does not. I doubt that there are more PlayStations than gaming PCs + Xboxes.

 

[BennyBlanco]

What are you talking about? Have you played any Sony first party?

yes, and the recent snoy games ive played all feel like they could be ubi games

- ghost of tsushima
- days gone
- spiderman

all feel very similar in structure to ubis AAA games

 

[Bryank75]

MS caters to PC game players too. Sony does not. I doubt that there are more PlayStations than gaming PCs + Xboxes.

Counting PC gamers is very obtuse but PC sales numbers are not impressive in most categories.... I would say however that Zenimax makes the most sense here as they are one of the few that really is popular on PC due in part to modding etc.

 

[cosmicom]

Why? PlayStation has over 110 million gamers, Xbox has around 40.....

If you want to get to the most gamers, then you release on PlayStation.

In 5-10 years all consumers will switch to streaming, as they did in last decade with HBO, netflix;

when consumers can play at highest quality without spending money in pc gaming or gaming console, directly from TV, the way of playing will change.

At that moment, it will be irrelevant who is selling more DVD or blue-ray devices....

It´s about the speed of connection; now it allows streaming at highest quality in movies, in few years it will happen with games. (latency with 5g is minimal)

At that moment, the king of gaming will be who offers best subscription service; in that race xbox is winning.

 

[driqe]

Why? PlayStation has over 110 million gamers, Xbox has around 40.....

If you want to get to the most gamers, then you release on PlayStation.

There are more xbox+pc+mobile gamers than PlayStation gamers.....

 

[ThatGuy707]

well that's worrisome :-/

edit: and before we get Xbox fanboys in here cheering about it because of Game Pass, the problem is this is the start

you're happy now but what about when Sony responds? or worse when Google & Amazon start buying up publishers because they don't want to risk Microsoft getting everything

now you have a future where you have to have Amazon Luna to play Ubisoft games & Google Stadia for Activision Blizzard while Microsoft owns Bethesda & EA with Sony having snatched up Square-Enix

it's bad for the industry & gamers

Nah winners will emerge. I see eventually 2 maybe 3 big sub services but others will fall back to publishers or get acquired themselves. Also, you shouldn't need to buy consoles so the hit to your wallet is prolly better in the long run even if you need to sub to multiple services.... All this doomsaying is silly.

Hell even just looking at Netflix/Disney + and now HBO max. I love it, I get HBO movies day and date in my home. Disney and HBO are gearing up to make high quality shows and are gonna force Netflix to up their game as well.

 

[DarkMage619]

Counting PC gamers is very obtuse but PC sales numbers are not impressive in most categories.... I would say however that Zenimax makes the most sense here as they are one of the few that really is popular on PC due in part to modding etc.

I'm pretty sure PC gamers would prefer to be counted than being dismissed. Sony and Nintendo are the main companies holding on to unit sales and that makes sense since the old way works for them. I am very interested to see how the industry changes as it moves more towards digital distribution and streaming.

 

[CeeJay]

Hope it's Sega. Crazy Taxi / Forza Horizon crossover would be incredible

 

[BennyBlanco]

Hope it's Sega. Crazy Taxi / Forza Horizon crossover would be incredible

flight sim / nights: into dreams crossover

 

[Bryank75]

yes, and the recent snoy games ive played all feel like they could be ubi games

- ghost of tsushima
- days gone
- spiderman

all feel very similar in structure to ubis AAA games

Spider-man is a superhero game.... Ubisoft makes nothing like that. Spider-man is all about traversal and combat (combos)...very different to something like Watchdogs or AC etc.

Ghost of Tsushima is far superior to anything Ubi make, the combat is incredible and puts Ubi games to shame and the entire experience is more focused and not level gated. It is open-world and that is the only similarity apart from the stealth stuff.

Haven't finished Days Gone yet, can;t fully comment.

But you're missing the fact that PS Studios make Uncharted, TLOU, R&C, Astrobot, Demons Souls, Sackboy, GOW, Concrete Genie, MLB etc.

I'd rather have them over The medium, Grounded and Bleeding Edge.

 

[Bryank75]

In 5-10 years all consumers will switch to streaming, as they did in last decade with HBO, netflix;

when consumers can play at highest quality without spending money in pc gaming or gaming console, directly from TV, the way of playing will change.

At that moment, it will be irrelevant who is selling more DVD or blue-ray devices....

It´s about the speed of connection; now it allows streaming at highest quality in movies, in few years it will happen with games. (latency with 5g is minimal)

At that moment, the king of gaming will be who offers best subscription service; in that race xbox is winning.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Your view is so limited, you have no idea what will happen. Streaming is a pipe dream, pushed by corporate rats....
Not all of us gamers are sheep ready to be corralled in to be harvested while companies hold our content behind a wall and continuously increase the price to access said content.

It's a pity that people like you think that is somehow a good idea.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Spider-man is a superhero game.... Ubisoft makes nothing like that. Spider-man is all about traversal and combat (combos)...very different to something like Watchdogs or AC etc.

Ghost of Tsushima is far superior to anything Ubi make, the combat is incredible and puts Ubi games to shame and the entire experience is more focused and not level gated. It is open-world and that is the only similarity apart from the stealth stuff.

Haven't finished Days Gone yet, can;t fully comment.

But you're missing the fact that PS Studios make Uncharted, TLOU, R&C, Astrobot, Demons Souls, Sackboy, GOW, Concrete Genie, MLB etc.

well i would have to disagree with you there, bud. spiderman traversal is the only thing really setting it apart from the ubi formula. you are doing filler side content and unlocking towers to reveal the map. ghost, while i like it, is assasins creed japan in everything but name. i would also disagree that it’s better than the average ubi game. I liked Odyssey more.

ubi also makes other shit like trials, trackmania, rayman, child of light, etc.

 

[GenericUser]

Its over sonybros. Its over

 

[MonarchJT]

If Microsoft want to come on top of this one, they should straight up buy PlayStation division and be done with irrelevancy.

playstation isn't their first rival. although Sony is currently the market leader, it is destined to leave their the crown to others. And I'm sorry to say it's just a matter of time. we all know by the time where he's headed market. Let's not fool ourselves. mainly Cloud, streaming, service + local computing (mainly PC's and in some measure still consoles) when 5g and even worse 6g arrive most people will already have hw to game. And honestly Sony is doing nothing to position itself and prepare for the foreseeable future . Losing the proprietary hardware and practically the exclusivity ... Sony loses practically everything it has built to date. Add that economically he cannot afford to build 1 Cloud infrastructure such as Amazon Google or Ms .. and which cannot even enter into an acquisition war with the big tech companies . It has already been surpassed as the number of First party. Sony is doomed? no no ..and i repeat no No No...is not what I'm saying but I expect than after this and the start of next gen they will lose the leader's crown

 

[Bryank75]

well i would have to disagree with you there, bud. spiderman traversal is the only thing really setting it apart from the ubi formula. you are doing filler side content and unlocking towers to reveal the map. ghost, while i like it, is assasins creed japan in everything but name. i would also disagree that it’s better than the average ubi game. I liked Odyssey more.

ubi also makes other shit like trials, trackmania, rayman, child of light, etc.

Odyssey is a load of shit. The only reason you like it is probably cause it's on XBox...

I know this cause I own it.

 

[pasterpl]

Counting PC gamers is very obtuse but PC sales numbers are not impressive in most categories.... I would say however that Zenimax makes the most sense here as they are one of the few that really is popular on PC due in part to modding etc.

multiple studies estimate pc gamers numbers between 1.2 and 1.5 billion

The World’s 2.7 Billion Gamers Will Spend $159.3 Billion on Games in 2020; The Market Will Surpass $200 Billion by 2023 | Newzoo

Looking for the latest on 2020's games market? From revenue & audience estmates to the future of the market & the impact of COVID-19, keep reading for more.

newzoo.com

48% of global gamers are PC gamers, that's 1.5 billion PC gamers

DFC Intelligence: 3.1 billion gamers worldwide, 48% of them are PC gamers -- meaning there are over 1.5 billion PC gamers.

www.tweaktown.com

 

[cosmicom]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Your view is so limited, you have no idea what will happen. Streaming is a pipe dream, pushed by corporate rats....
Not all of us gamers are sheep ready to be corralled in to be harvested while companies hold our content behind a wall and continuously increase the price to access said content.

It's a pity that people like you think that is somehow a good idea.

When people realize they can play in streaming at the same or highest quality than in very expensive device as a playstation 5 or gaming pc... what do you think they will do??

10 years ago blockbuster was a thriving business, now it´s gone. Sony lost 70% of their money because nobody buys now dvd or blue-ray players, or cd walk-man.

That´s the way of the world, the question is: besides investing in its own failed tesla, what sony is doing to prepare for the future?

 

[BennyBlanco]

Odyssey is a load of shit. The only reason you like it is probably cause it's on XBox...

I know this cause I own it.

thats funny because i own a ps5 and havent owned a xbox since 360

 

[Bryank75]

When people realize they can play in streaming at the same or highest quality than in very expensive device as a playstation 5 or gaming pc... what do you think they will do??

10 years ago blockbuster was a thriving business, now it´s gone. Sony lost 70% of their money because nobody buys now dvd or blue-ray players.

That´s the way of the world, the question is: sony, besides investing in his own failed tesla, what is doing to prepare for the future?

How is it higher quality when it is a compressed image with massive input lag and no minimum standard.... no set dependability either.

Sony makes more money now than ever...so you are again talking out your asshole.

If you want to be a corporate lapdog and allow them to fully take ownership away, lock it behind a paywall that they can push up to any level... then you are mentally damaged.

 

[Astorian]

Again this isn't about people's own emotions or preferences, it's about what the current evidence is pointing to. That's it. And there's way more pointing to a Sega acquisition than a Capcom or especially Square-Enix one (if anything there would be more evidence of Sony acquiring SE...if such a thing is even in the pipeline).

The Sonic games actually still sell pretty well, and the multimedia around it has done very well. They did just have the Sonic movie last year (probably the most well-received movie based on a game so far, and the highest-grossing movie based on a game as well). The game output has been hit-and-miss: right after a great game like Sonic Mania they decide to follow up with Sonic Forces, then they strip down All-Stars Racing Transformed for Team Sonic Racing. Hopefully they are truly going to stabilize the output going forward.

Outside of that though they have a lot of other things going for them. 13th Sentinel, HOTD Scarlet Dawn (arcade/FEC), Sega World Driver's Championship (arcade/FEC; Japan only), Football Manager, Total War, Persona, Shin Megami Tensei, Hatsune Miku, Streets of Rage 4, the Yakuza series, etc. Their output's honestly on the stronger end of the industry if you take Sonic out of the picture. I do agree that Capcom and Square-Enix have some bigger IP (Resident Evil, Final Fantasy), but Sega's output in terms of quality (ignoring brand IP power) has been more or less on par with the two of them.

Sega's bigger problem has usually been poor marketing or lack of marketing, and boneheaded business decisions to a lesser extent. Problems that've stemmed back to their days as a platform holder in the mid-1990s' tbh. But I think that's mainly been driven more due to relative lack of funds than inability to do it; when the funds were there they've shown multiple times they can do some extremely effective marketing and push for their games, arguably better than Microsoft's ever managed IMHO. So having some of Microsoft's funds available through the Xbox division would be a boon for them.

Last reported figure for Mania is over a million, while that’s good it’s certainly on the niche side like the majority of Sega’s output, MS would be gaining a nice variety of GamePass fodder games (which I could see a case for this) but I don’t see the acquisition doing much beyond that.

And once again, we would have heard about it if an acquisition was happening like the Codemasters situation, do you think they are just in talks right now and aren’t ready to announce anything? What about other potential bidders?

 

[DeepEnigma]

Hey look, it’s Xbox fans favorite game.

 

[zedinen]

Sony will grow its first-party studios organically rather than via massive spending sprees.

SIE Worldwide Studios was founded ahead of PS3 launch. Its games didn't help the PS3 during its early years. By the time the PS4 launched, the PS3, thanks to games like TLOU, was outselling 360, Wii and Wii U.

The PS4 was on a clear path to victory thanks to the competitive advantages slowly built during the PS3 era.

And here we are, in 2021. PS will post industry record breaking revenues next week while its studios earned universal acclaim. With a dying console and a new scarce one.

PS is the market leader since 1995 because SIE is the only company with a long- term plan.

Nintendo exited the home console market. And Microsoft lacks a long-term coherent strategy and keeps throwing money at this problem. Nothing has changed since 2001.

Microsoft will outspend Sony and Nintendo combined, PS will dominate dollar sales.

The only difference is that Sony now has $40 billion in cash on hand as PS generates more free cash flow.

 

[cosmicom]

How is it higher quality when it is a compressed image with massive input lag and no minimum standard.... no set dependability either.

Sony makes more money now than ever...so you are again talking out your asshole.

If you want to be a corporate lapdog and allow them to fully take ownership away, lock it behind a paywall that they can push up to any level... then you are mentally damaged.

Sony is alive because playstation; their net income in the last year was 4 billion dollars (almost half of the pursache of zenimax by microsoft); the question is how Sony will evolve into streaming? they fail in this task and caput

 

[cosmicom]

The only difference is that Sony now has $40 billion in cash on hand as PS generates more free cash flow.

40 billion in revenues, then they have to pay workers, financial interests... net income last year 4 billion dollars (all Sony)

 

[driqe]

40 billion in revenues, then they have to pay workers, financial interests... net income last year 4 billion dollars (all Sony)

their net income was only but cash on hand is 40b

Sony Cash on Hand 2006-2020 | SNE | MacroTrends

 

[cosmicom]

their net income was only but cash on hand is 40b

Sony Cash on Hand 2006-2020 | SNE | MacroTrends

Cash on hand is not money in the pocket, but the value of interest in assets

 

[driqe]

That´s the value of it intellectual properties and assets (naughty dog by example). Sony, in distress, could sell naughty dog by 5 billion dollars, by example. that´s cash on hand. It´s to say, assets transformable in money in 1 year or less.

Cash on hand can be defined as cash deposits at financial institutions that can immediately be withdrawn at any time

?

 

[MonarchJT]

How is it higher quality when it is a compressed image with massive input lag and no minimum standard.... no set dependability either.

Sony makes more money now than ever...so you are again talking out your asshole.

If you want to be a corporate lapdog and allow them to fully take ownership away, lock it behind a paywall that they can push up to any level... then you are mentally damaged.

the human being will hardly realize that after all in our life we really own almost nothing especially something artistic like a song, movie or game. you own pieces of plastic or so. and the rip off that you pay so much to satisfy the claim of ownership. This is just a question of mentality. but I understand that it is a complex matter. and no no .. the fact that you can resell the games doesn't change anything. And no they cannot push up whatever price they want. if they do no one is forced to pay and another player will come giving what the last one wasn't ... good prices

 

[pasterpl]

Sega restructuring efforts spark more acquisition rumours

Some major shake-ups are happening at Sega and they've renewed rumours of the company potentially being bought out.

metro.co.uk

next Wednesday

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Take 2 would include 2K Sports etc as well

Still might not be worth it at that cost, though, plus it'd just put them in contention with EA and their sports lineup. IIRC EA have exclusive dibs on FIFA and FIFA's the premier sports franchise outside of the United States. Unless MS decided to try acquiring the FIFA license I don't see why Microsoft would jeopardize relations with EA when EA would still have the most popular sports game IP globally (FIFA).

Just thought about it now and, well outside of Sega, WB Games etc. there's only one other company around that $3 billion - $4 billion market cap valuation and that's Valve. Valve have their own IP obviously like DOTA and Half-Life, but the big get there would be Steam. That fits in 100% with what Microsoft wants in terms of massive presence in PC gaming, and seeing that Sony already have an investment in Epic Game Store I don't see why Microsoft wouldn't want to secure a direct rival to stave off EGS growth as a storefront. Plus IIRC Gabe said they were considering selling sometime recently, but I might've misheard.

Valve actually makes a ton of sense for Microsoft in that context and would probably be relatively easy to get; companies like Amazon and Google don't really want to pursue a games distribution model in the way Steam does it, whereas Microsoft would definitely want to, and find a way to integrate GamePass and Xcloud into it as well. Probably the only other actual would-be buyer is Tencent and, well, while I'm trying to keep my own personal reasons out of this, there's several reasons (mainly political) why I wouldn't want Tencent to acquire Valve/Steam, but in terms of actual financial capability, yes they can do so if they want.

Sony will grow its first-party studios organically rather than via massive spending sprees.

SIE Worldwide Studios was founded ahead of PS3 launch. Its games didn't help the PS3 during its early years. By the time the PS4 launched, the PS3, thanks to games like TLOU, was outselling 360, Wii and Wii U.

The PS4 was on a clear path to victory thanks to the competitive advantages slowly built during the PS3 era.

And here we are, in 2021. PS will post industry record breaking revenues next week while its studios earned universal acclaim. With a dying console and a new scarce one.

PS is the market leader since 1995 because SIE is the only company with a long- term plan.

Nintendo exited the home console market. And Microsoft lacks a long-term coherent strategy and keeps throwing money at this problem. Nothing has changed since 2001.

Microsoft will outspend Sony and Nintendo combined, PS will dominate dollar sales.

The only difference is that Sony now has $40 billion in cash on hand as PS generates more free cash flow.

Wow, didn't think I'd see this much revisionist history in a post today but here we are . Where to start...

PS3 never outsold the Wii in LTD. The sales lead it had over 360 in LTD is roughly 3 - 5 million units, so that part is true. But it came at a price.

Their recovery with PS3 helped with PS4, that much is also true. But PS4's success is mainly due to their design of PS4 and what they put towards it, helped as well by MS dropping the ball with XBO.

Sony has not been the market leader since 1995 xD. Even just talking 5th-gen systems, going market-by-market they were generally 2nd in Japan behind the Sega Saturn up until the launch of Final Fantasy VII....in 1997. They did lead in America and Europe, but the N64 actually consistently outsold the PS1 in NA for much of 1996 and much of 1997. If you're looking at just platform holder marketshares in 1995 over console generations, both Nintendo and Sega had more marketshare than Sony throughout 1995 (Super Nintendo & Gameboy for Nintendo, MegaDrive, Saturn, Sega CD etc. for Sega).

Nintendo didn't "exit" the home console market: NES, SNES, N64, Gamecube, Wii, and Wii U were all home consoles. Even the Switch, they are marketing as a home console with portability mainly (whether that's the case is debatable). It's ultimately premature to say who's strategy will stick going forward the next five years, though I would agree Sony have shown a pattern of making the right calls and Microsoft much less so, even if they're trying to buck that trend now.

However I wouldn't go relying on their cash-on-hand as a warchest cry; if PlayStation is roughly a third of Sony's income, then logically they probably have roughly a third of that cash-on-hand to play with, so a little over $13 billion. I'd imagine it might be a tad smaller than that as some of the cash-on-hand will also be provisioned for emergency spending (unless they already take that out beforehand, I dunno). If that happens to be the case then that'd probably make cash-on-hand between the PlayStation and Xbox divisions about equal (Microsoft as a company has around $134 cash-on-hand, a lot of that isn't for the Xbox division).

**IMPORTANT NOTE: Cash-on-hand isn't good in isolation, you need to factor marketable debt out of that. Sony had $24 billion in marketable debt for 2020 so their net profit is actually around $16 billion. Microsoft's manageable debt for 2020 was about $87 billion so their net profit is actually around $47 billion.

 

[Leyasu]

Take 2 would be way beyond Bethesda/Zenimax-level; their market cap is 22.97 billion, so Microsoft would probably have to pay at least 2x that price given whoever else would be in the bidding, or over $45 billion. It's debatable if it would be worth that cost tbh; outside of GTA and Red Dead what other IP do they have? Also while GTA5 has been one of the biggest evergreen AAA games of the past decade, it's also the ONLY GTA game with that level of selling and revenue/profit power; other GTAs sold very well but weren't near as evergreen, and there's no predicting if GTA6 is going to repeat GTA5's success.

WB's market cap is much lower; $4 billion, that puts them slightly ahead of Sega but lower than Capcom or Square-Enix. MS may pay as much as $8 billion for them but that is roughly in line with Zenimax. The issue with WB Games is...what IP do you get for that? Mortal Kombat for sure, but it seems like a lot for just one IP you'd own. If even one of the major DC superhero IPs came with that, it'd make the buy more lucrative.

If a company were able to secure exclusive game rights to several of the major DC characters/IPs for a period of time (let's say 5 years) with that purchase and get first dibs on securing/extending those exclusive rights (through right of first refusal, IIRC) when the period's almost over at a reasonable price, then that makes WB Games a much better and interesting acquisition for certain, I'd argue potentially more than Sega or even Take-Two Interactive.



HELLLLL NO . They technically couldn't "sell" Daytona, because that's kind of like getting an F1 or Dakar rally license for games. They're actually doing a sequel (reboot?) of Virtua Fighter. Sega Rally, well it's a dormant IP and will probably stay that way tbh outside of older games being re-released, but there's no reason for them to sell it off.



I mean, you can say this but there is no proof you can provide that they haven't been in some state of discussion. It's also likely they were not in active phases of discussion at that time, but could renew talks this year. Microsoft have visited Sega in the past about potential acquisitions, after all, they would not need to do things like those Twitter posts during active discussions.

All I'm saying is that, if you look at some of the things Sega-Sammy have been doing WRT restructuring, look at previous discussions between them and Microsoft, look at Microsoft's acquisition attempts and priorities, look at the historical relationship the two companies have had (going back to the Dreamcast), etc., IF there is an acquisition coming about from this there's a very good chance it's Microsoft.

Take 2s market cap is that high because of GTA. Remove that franchise from the equation, and their value drops dramatically. They are trading today at 200 a share. Do you think that MS would have to pay 400 a share?

I was more talking about the amount of studios in comparison to Zenimax.

 

[phil_t98]

Big money is on the Sega deal now, seems like something is happening

plus we all the the emulators work on the series consoles lol

 

[wipeout364]

No, only with the market cap of Ubisoft is ~10B. The value of the company is way higher, and the Guillemot family, many workers and key investors have a big part of the company.

So you are saying it’s a incorporated listed company with a private ownership aspect that’s not accounted for in the number of stock outstanding? Some sort of hybrid? I recognize acquisition requires an increased offer over the market cap say 20 to 30%. The bigger issue is likely the French government and their constant interference in business deals.

Also Ubisoft has not been doing well with several problems; watchdogs bombed, Felix bombed, hyperscape bombed, Rainbow Six is dying faster than expected due to a bunch of poor decisions drying up another revenue stream, Division 2 underperformed, ghost recon breakpoint bombed. Not to forget the loss of several key personnel due to workplace toxicity issues. I like Ubisoft but I don’t think they are in as good a place as you think.

 

[Bryank75]

the human being will hardly realize that after all in our life we really own almost nothing especially something artistic like a song, movie or game. you own pieces of plastic or so. and the rip off that you pay so much to satisfy the claim of ownership. This is just a question of mentality. but I understand that it is a complex matter. and no no .. the fact that you can resell the games doesn't change anything. And no they cannot push up whatever price they want. if they do no one is forced to pay and another player will come giving what the last one wasn't ... good prices

Absolutely... only Microsoft is eternal... we must all give up all our belongings and worship Microsoft and their bottom line!

 

[Potato Chip PRO]

With MS, you are not stuck with one platform....... Doesn't 99% here have gaming PCs?

 

[MonarchJT]

Absolutely... only Microsoft is eternal... we must all give up all our belongings and worship Microsoft and their bottom line!

wut? who ever is so stupid to say that ?

 

[Bryank75]

That´s the value of it intellectual properties and assets (naughty dog by example). Sony, in distress, could sell naughty dog by 5 billion dollars, by example. that´s cash on hand. It´s to say, assets transformable in money in 1 year or less.

You have no idea what you're talking about...

Like... where did you get the idea that Studios being sold have anything to do with cash and equivalents in accounting terms?

You do not account for a studio like that.... Naughty Dog and all other studios are a part of Sony and are valued intrinsically by the Market Value. You don't get every business they own and value them and then put them into the cash and equivalents....

MY FUCKING GOD........ people are beyond stupid here!!!

CASH and EQUIVALENTS are hard cold cash and things like SHARES in other companies that are intended to be only a short term position for financial gain.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Big money is on the Sega deal now, seems like something is happening

plus we all the the emulators work on the series consoles lol

It's between Sega, WB Games and Valve. Starting to think it might be Valve, actually. For one, they're privately owned. Secondly, they pretty much control PC gaming with Steam. Microsoft wants to control PC gaming but they sure as hell won't get to doing that with Games with Windows.

Those factors alone plus them being within that $4 billion market cap range makes me think it could actually be Valve. There just aren't any restructurings or such happening there (that we know of) suggesting an acquisition could be happening in the future.

Take 2s market cap is that high because of GTA. Remove that franchise from the equation, and their value drops dramatically. They are trading today at 200 a share. Do you think that MS would have to pay 400 a share?

I was more talking about the amount of studios in comparison to Zenimax.

That's the thing though, you can't simply remove GTA out of the equation. And yeah they would get the 2K sports teams (either you or someone else said that), but I could see EA getting pissed at a platform holder making rival sports games, and hold that against them.

They've done it before (Sega and the Dreamcast due to Visual Concepts).

 

[Leyasu]

It's between Sega, WB Games and Valve. Starting to think it might be Valve, actually. For one, they're privately owned. Secondly, they pretty much control PC gaming with Steam. Microsoft wants to control PC gaming but they sure as hell won't get to doing that with Games with Windows.

Those factors alone plus them being within that $4 billion market cap range makes me think it could actually be Valve. There just aren't any restructurings or such happening there (that we know of) suggesting an acquisition could be happening in the future.



That's the thing though, you can't simply remove GTA out of the equation. And yeah they would get the 2K sports teams (either you or someone else said that), but I could see EA getting pissed at a platform holder making rival sports games, and hold that against them.

They've done it before (Sega and the Dreamcast due to Visual Concepts).

I wasn't implying splintering off GTA, I was saying that their value is inflated because of it.

Also, didn't EA refuse to support xbox live at the beginning because of Microsofts sports franchises?

 

[cosmicom]

Absolutely... only Microsoft is eternal... we must all give up all our belongings and worship Microsoft and their bottom line!

Microsoft is not eternal, but for now it´s in the big game; xbox-playstation is a war with waterguns, when google or amazon decides to fight the big war it will be the clash of titans. Amazon could buy rockstar, even playstation.