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[Bergoglio]

Not always

Infact in normal mode game is running native 4k

 

[Md Ray]

the game doesn't even require an SSD on PC.

Btw, they do seem to recommend SSD even for the minimum system requirements.

The Medium - Official system requirements - Steam News (steampowered.com)

 

[GHG]

how game is performing on PC? Seems like a mess there as well and crazy taxing?

It most likely will be. But people running nvidia RTX cards will have a way out using DLSS.

 

[Entroyp]

This is DLC right?

 

[IntentionalPun]

Btw, they do seem to recommend SSD even for the minimum system requirements on PC.

Of course; very few games don't these days.

But the game... works on an HDD.... that is a fraction of the speed.

This game is loading assets ahead of time; you aren't seeing the other world load instantly.. it's already there in memory.

IMO of course.. but I see no logic to suggest I'm wrong here.

 

[Die Namek Ability]

Becouse are two world in the same time,not two different cameras in the same world

Im a bit disappointed tbh. Yes they are rendering two worlds but the layout of each world is near identical and the character model follows the dame exact movement. Furthermore each world is half the screen so half the pixels, its not like its trying to render 2 separate 4k screens. Idk, to me it seems like a result from poor optimization due to a small dev team and pressure to get this out the door.

 

[GHG]

Btw, they do seem to recommend SSD even for the minimum system requirements on PC.

There's a big difference between an SSD being required and recommended.

 

[M1chl]

The excuse doesn't make much sense considering the number of pixels being output as the final result is the same.

That essentially means each world is being rendered at half of 900p individually if I'm reading this correctly. Something is off with how they are going about rendering the two scenes side by side, I would have thought the main stress would have been on the CPU. Sounds like nothing is being scaled appropriately in the dual world scenes.

Do the assets/geometry/ray tracing need to stay at their highest settings in both scenes when the player can only see everything at half resolution?

I'm interested to see if it performs any different on PC but I suspect not considering the hardware requirements chart stated 30fps. The issue is likely with the game, not the hardware.

I think there is an issue, with deffered rendering. I think this sort of tricks are better achieved with forward render, however there is problem with lights and let's say that Blooper team is not id Software, which tuned ID Tech 7 with forward render to perfection. Most games using deffered lighting and no matter that the scene is using same geometry, for rendering, you have to render it twice, I don't think it's a memory issue....well it could be however I hope it's done in one pass, not both vieports separately. That would probably explain how heavy is it. We need the PC video about this game, to properly judge.

 

[Senua]

"A Closer Look At Xbox's First Next-Gen Exclusive"

Fun fact, the guy in this meme is designed after John Linneman himself!

 

[scydrex]

Does it run at 60fps on Xbox and PC?

 

[Silent Viper]

It most likely will be. But people running nvidia RTX cards will have a way out using DLSS.

We need that tech on consoles asap

 

[Md Ray]

Does it run at 60fps on Xbox and PC?

60fps? That is exclusive to PC.

 

[Portugeezer]

But how do you know that's only possible on SSD? Is that sequence removed from PC?

The game is clearly holding both sets of assets in memory to do that. It takes several seconds to fill the XSX RAM. Even if it was just 2.5 GB of textures / models being switched out that would take an entire second.

The lack of detail in this game is explained by that and other scenes.. it's not instantly streaming anything IMO, it's just holding the "other world's" assets in memory the whole time.

The same could be said for Ratchet even. What's impressive about Ratchet is that it renders a fairly beautiful / high detail / lots going on world and then you go through a portal and in a couple seconds switches to another. If Sony halved the detail, they could hold both worlds in memory at once, and do the same thing on a much slower drive.

That is probably the case, seeing as it's literally instant, the other world (or the majority of it) is being stored in RAM in the background so it doesn't seem like the SSD matters too much for loading that world instantly. Maybe some minor things are streamed in afterwards.

 

[GHG]

I think there is an issue, with deffered rendering. I think this sort of tricks are better achieved with forward render, however there is problem with lights and let's say that Blooper team is not id Software, which tuned ID Tech 7 with forward render to perfection. Most games using deffered lighting and no matter that the scene is using same geometry, for rendering, you have to render it twice, I don't think it's a memory issue....well it could be however I hope it's done in one pass, not both vieports separately. That would probably explain how heavy is it. We need the PC video about this game, to properly judge.

Yeh I think once people start digging into the PC version we might get some answers but considering the huge drop off in resolution (less than a quarter) in those scenes I suspect they are rendering the two viewports independent of one another with the same settings that are being used in the single view mode. That's the only thing that would explain why such a load is being put on the GPU in those scenes.

 

[Md Ray]

Just imagine how it’ll run on ps5.

You tell me.

 

[Md Ray]

Of course; very few games don't these days.

But the game... works on an HDD.... that is a fraction of the speed.

This game is loading assets ahead of time; you aren't seeing the other world load instantly.. it's already there in memory.

IMO of course.. but I see no logic to suggest I'm wrong here.

I guess you're right. It'll be interesting to see how that scene plays out on an HDD.

 

[M1chl]

Yeh I think once people start digging into the PC version we might get some answers but considering the huge drop off in resolution (less than a quarter) in those scenes I suspect they are rendering the two viewports independent of one another with the same settings that are being used in the single view mode. That's the only thing that would explain why such a load is being put on the GPU in those scenes.

Yeah seems like it, I mean this sort of thing would probably require their own engine, which expect this scenarion of 2 screens simutaneosly, I guess something like in MasterChief collection, how you could switch instantly to old school look. They said that it was rendering games twice, obviously old version was much less taxing, however they had to make some engine adjustments. I am not sure how much of this is present in some effective form in Unreal Engine 4. My guess that it's somewhat hacked together. I am mainly interested in PC version, to see how much memory does it suck...

 

[Phunkydiabetic]

What's up with the almost nonexistent shadows in this game. It looks so flat and dull.

 

[JCK75]

The game is rendered twice.
Not that difficult to understand.
If it is worth it...is up to a debate.

I think it's even more complicated than that, it's almost like running two games at once since it's two completely different maps bring run at the same time.

 

[Varnish La PS]

Back to 720p days...

 

[IntentionalPun]

That is probably the case, seeing as it's literally instant, the other world (or the majority of it) is being stored in RAM in the background so it doesn't seem like the SSD matters too much for loading that world instantly. Maybe some minor things are streamed in afterwards.

It could be using asset streaming; but most games do. It's almost certainly just using traditional asset streaming (streaming out stuff that has gone out of view, streaming in stuff that's about to come into view.) It's not using that during the actual world switches though, it can't be doing that. And since it's designed to work on an HDD as well, it's also likely ALWAYS streaming the "other world" in/out behind the scenes, and the "current world" is only using a part of the memory.

A lot of the "only possible on next gen" stuff really just means "at the detail level possible", but this game doesn't really have that.

Which is why this game works on an HDD, it is not designed around "instant asset streaming" despite the hype. There really is no "instant asset streaming" either way, in any of this tech. Ratchet is surely using the couple seconds of animation to go through a portal too, switching worlds probably takes less than 10GB of assets (maybe way less), because of shared assets.. and the PS5 can load 10GB in under 2 seconds, but it can't do it "instantly."

Like I was saying earlier; ratchet could be designed like this game is. It would just need to be at the level of detail required to be able to switch to the amount of "other worlds" accessible by the player at any time. If that's just 1 world at a time (meaning from 1 world, there's only 1 other world that you go to) you'd use half the RAM (minus shared assets) for the current world. If it's 2 worlds, you could use a third of the RAM (again, minus shared assets) to do that.

Ghosts of Tsushima is clearly doing something like that even on PS4. It's physically impossible for it to load as fast as it does if it were using the entirety of RAM for the "current part of the level", which means it's largely leveraging shared assets, and also pre-caching ahead of time the other asset types it needs as much as possible. Using the short load time to load maybe a small amount of assets, but probably much of it is just calculating the state of the world on the other end of your fast travel (which is also really simple, the game is not really complex.. there are no AIs roaming the world, they clearly are just "warping" in off your view, and it's always the same sets of 3-7 limited types of soldiers.)

Ghosts is also heavily effects driven.. instead of lots of detailed assets, it has lots of partical effects and things moving/swaying... it's fucking beautiful.. and really clever tech.. but it sort of shows off a similar idea here.. loading most of the assets required for the entire game into memory at any given time.

 

[Negotiator101]

Sounds like a great game, I'm now very much looking forward to playing this tomorrow.

 

[Negotiator101]

I'll probably try it on Gamepass but 900p is gross image quality.

I've not paid too much attention to the game but hopefully the split screen stuff is not just a gimmick.

What resolution would be acceptable to you?

 

[GHG]

I think it's even more complicated than that, it's almost like running two games at once since it's two completely different maps bring run at the same time.

The layouts are the same.

What resolution would be acceptable to you?

When you play split screen games does the overall output resolution crash down to a quarter of what it would be otherwise?

 

[jhjfss]

why did they need to render 2 worlds at the same time? they should have done what titanfall 2 and dishonored 2 did with their time manipulation levels.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Jesus.

Why I'm not surprise he comes asap for the damage control lol

Is he wrong?

 

[Senua]

Jesus.

Why I'm not surprise he comes asap for the damage control lol

Is he wrong?

Is he wrong?

reported

 

[martino]

the ambition was not worth it in the end it just becomes ammo for warrior and their syllogisms with brain dead posts because it has an exclusive deal...
PC ask 24gb of total ram if minimum are really the one you need
how many minutes of two slow and linear games you can keep in memory when you have 6-8gb more ram ? probably more than enough

The layouts are the same.



When you play split screen games does the overall output resolution crash down to a quarter of what it would be otherwise?

the more the content is different in each viewpoint and the less they share the more it's a yes.(edit : but it can also be other things than resolution)

 

[Negotiator101]

Jesus.

Why I'm not surprise he comes asap for the damage control lol

He's stating a fact, unfortunately most people don't like hearing the truth and prefer to believe what they want, ignorance is bliss.

 

[Derktron]

So since everyone is complaining about it running at 900p I’m assuming that if it comes to PS5 the game will look better with that super sauce SSD?

 

[ethomaz]

Is he wrong?

Is he wrong?

Actually here is... like usual.

Split-screen render in games is not something new... split-screen needs to have two instances of the render rendering at the same time and while having lower resolution never had that big difference.

In the face of do the damage control he forget to do the tech side of the things.

He's stating a fact, unfortunately most people don't like hearing the truth and prefer to believe what they want, ignorance is bliss.

Yeap it is not the first time he shows ignorance about the subject.

the more the content is different in each viewpoint and the less they share the more it's a yes.(edit : but it can also be other things than resolution)

Wut? Split-screen have completely different view points lol
It is a different render and it is not affected by the other render.

 

[Negotiator101]

Actually here is... like usual.

Split-screen render in games is not something new... split-screen needs to have two instances of the render rendering at the same time and while having lower resolution never had that big difference.

In the face of do the damage control he forget to do the tech side.

Bloober have a patent on this tech, it is new.

 

[M1chl]

Yeh I think once people start digging into the PC version we might get some answers but considering the huge drop off in resolution (less than a quarter) in those scenes I suspect they are rendering the two viewports independent of one another with the same settings that are being used in the single view mode. That's the only thing that would explain why such a load is being put on the GPU in those scenes.

Seems like it's sucks 8GB of memory no matter what vieport is present. Not sure how much vram is free when you run Windows, because on my 3090 whole 1GB is sucked by Windows itself, but yeah this game is definitely heavy...

 

[Imtjnotu]

Not always

And not always is it at 900p

 

[martino]

Actually here is... like usual.

Split-screen render in games is not something new... split-screen needs to have two instances of the render rendering at the same time and while having lower resolution never had that big difference.

In the face of do the damage control he forget to do the tech side of the things.


Yeap it is not the first time he shows ignorance about the subject.


Wut? Split-screen have completely different view points lol
It is a different render and it is not affected by the other render.

it's more you adding an item in the huge collection of yours we have here.

 

[GHG]

Shared by THEAP99 in the review thread:




18 fps on a 3080 guys...:

 

[martino]

Seems like it's sucks 8GB of memory no matter what vieport is present. Not sure how much vram is free when you run Windows, because on my 3090 whole 1GB is sucked by Windows itself, but yeah this game is definitely heavy...

that's actually not that much
we need test with a config with 4gb gpu and 8gb ram to be under official minimal and see what happen.

 

[Werewolfgrandma]

Actually here is... like usual.

Split-screen render in games is not something new... split-screen needs to have two instances of the render rendering at the same time and while having lower resolution never had that big difference.

In the face of do the damage control he forget to do the tech side of the things.


Yeap it is not the first time he shows ignorance about the subject.


Wut? Split-screen have completely different view points lol
It is a different render and it is not affected by the other render.

Your comments again show you are just a Warrior who should not be listened to.
People shit posting in console specific threads should have consequences.

 

[SF Kosmo]

Planning to play this on PC on a 1080p monitor, wonder how it'll hold up.

 

[JCK75]

The layouts are the same.



When you play split screen games does the overall output resolution crash down to a quarter of what it would be otherwise?

Layouts don't change the fact that's it's an entirely different set of assets, this makes it even more taxing than standard split screen.

 

[martino]

Shared by THEAP99 in the review thread:




18 fps on a 3080 guys...:

it seems there is something wrong on the memory side here....(game on hdd ?)

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

I wonder how it's gonna look on a big screen in 2-screen mode.
Considering it essentially it cuts the screen in half it should look fine.

 

[DeepEnigma]

He could make his points without dragging the console war rhetoric into play, but oh you know... They're always victims.

 

[Tripolygon]

I am less impressed than the initial trailer and footage when it was first announced but the fact that it is coming from a small studio with a tiny budget is still something to be proud of. The utilization of the split screen is less impressive than i thought it would be as a gameplay device. We have seen some last gen games make a better use of it. Overall not terrible but could definitely be refined and made better.

 

[Allandor]

There's this sequence here (timestamped) that I think was impressive:


The terrain and its textures and other assets instantly disappearing and reappearing while switching between the real world and the spirit world right before your eyes all while you're running through the world.

Yes looks impressive.

Overall, this game was made by the small team. So they might just not have the resources to get iron out some technical issues (like res drops). Something like this costs time.

But how do you know that's only possible on SSD? Is that sequence removed from PC?

The game is clearly holding both sets of assets in memory to do that. It takes several seconds to fill the XSX RAM. Even if it was just 2.5 GB of textures / models being switched out that would take an entire second.

The lack of detail in this game is explained by that and other scenes.. it's not instantly streaming anything IMO, it's just holding the "other world's" assets in memory the whole time.

The same could be said for Ratchet even. What's impressive about Ratchet is that it renders a fairly beautiful / high detail / lots going on world and then you go through a portal and in a couple seconds switches to another. If Sony halved the detail, they could hold both worlds in memory at once, and do the same thing on a much slower drive.

This is definitely possible with an HDD + enough memory (works on PC), but the more capable hardware of the next gen consoles, just make it easier for small teams to breath life into their concepts. The smaller the team is, the less resources are available for technical optimizations.

Shared by THEAP99 in the review thread:




18 fps on a 3080 guys...:

which again points out: small team, less time for technical optimizations.

 

[GHG]

Layouts don't change the fact that's it's an entirely different set of assets, this makes it even more taxing than standard split screen.

Depends on the game you are referring to regarding assets. If it's a racing game for example then yes the assets will be identical across all sections of the screen but there are other games like A Way Out and even Divinity Original Sin (1 and 2) where entirely different maps are loaded at the same time on the same split screen session. In those game different inputs also need to be handled.

This is just poorly optimised.

 

[mejin]

 

[DonkeyKong]

I think it's pretty impressive considering what the game is rendering, ok perhaps a bigger studio could optimised it bit more but I'm looking forward to trying it out either way

 

[waquzy]

The most important thing though is.............. is the game enjoyable?

That's the key.

It looks shit!

 

[Md Ray]

Shared by THEAP99 in the review thread:




18 fps on a 3080 guys...:

Yikes!