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[Kerlurk]

dude. He's talking about BC games.

I can read, and I'm talking about the time "difference".

It's 5 to 10 seconds difference and it's unnoticeable when you load times are like 30 seconds to over a minute long.

I'm surprised I have to explain this to you.

But yeah, of all the things to complain about, this has to be FIXED!

PLEASE FIX THIS SONY!

I have things to do, and places to go in the game world!

edit: was being sarcastic on Sony needing to fix this.

 

[Varnish La PS]

Why my mighty, super, ultra high speed SSD loads these games like my 101-year-old grandma's slow eat?

 

[anaphase]

Delete.

Wha...

 

[smallpotatosan]

I can read, and I'm talking about the time "difference".

It's 5 to 10 seconds difference and it's unnoticeable when you load times are like 30 seconds to over a minute long.

Blows me mind, I actually have to explain this to you.

But yeah, of all the things to complain about, this has to be FIXED!

PLEASE FIX THIS SONY!

I have things to do, and places to go in the game world!

man, I'm not sure if you are serious or not. lol. but i don't care about BC games anyway. so /shrug

 

[Kerlurk]

man, I'm not sure if you are serious or not. lol. but i don't care about BC games anyway. so /shrug

It's sarcasm (I thought this was obvious). It does not have to be fixed.

 

[TrackZ]

Sony loads times being behind XSX is a big miss after SSD speed being a cornerstone expectation of the platform. That's not living up to expectations at all.

 

[Boglin]

Why my mighty, super, ultra high speed SSD loads these games like my 101-year-old grandma's slow eat?

I don't think it will be fixed unless it's at a per game basis. I believe if the PS5 is downclocking to 1.6ghz/2.13ghz for general hardware emulation then it is a natural drawback for method they chose and it leaves performance on the table. Microsoft's higher level API's and hypervisor were always going to allow Xbox game code to be more portable and more easily brought to future hardware. XSX gets to use its full 3.8ghz and their faster BC loading times are a consequence of that.

If you want to see the SSDs on either console run better than a 500MB/s sata drive you're going to have to wait for games coded for it.

 

[TwistedSyn]

Holy shit. When SONY said you don't have to install patches anymore on the PS5, they weren't kidding.

 

[Varnish La PS]

If you want to see the SSD's run better than a 500MB/s sata drive you're going to have to wait for games coded for it.

Song version of this comment:

 

[user1337]

 

[Nickolaidas]

I can read, and I'm talking about the time "difference".

It's 5 to 10 seconds difference and it's unnoticeable when you load times are like 30 seconds to over a minute long.

I'm surprised I have to explain this to you.

But yeah, of all the things to complain about, this has to be FIXED!

PLEASE FIX THIS SONY!

I have things to do, and places to go in the game world!

Well ... yeah.

I mean, the PS5's SSD is supposed to be twice as fast than the XSX's, at least. It shouldn't take 30-40% more time to load BC games.

In some games the load difference is thirty seconds. That's simply laughable, considering the power that SSD has.

 

[Handy Fake]

Well ... yeah.

I mean, the PS5's SSD is supposed to be twice as fast than the XSX's, at least. It shouldn't take 30-40% more time to load BC games.

In some games the load difference is thirty seconds. That's simply laughable, considering the power that SSD has.

It still needs to jump through the hoops of the emulated PS4 profile though.

 

[user1337]

Sony loads times being behind XSX is a big miss after SSD speed being a cornerstone expectation of the platform. That's not living up to expectations at all.

Well ... yeah.

I mean, the PS5's SSD is supposed to be twice as fast than the XSX's, at least. It shouldn't take 30-40% more time to load BC games.

In some games the load difference is thirty seconds. That's simply laughable, considering the power that SSD has.

It hasnt got anything to do with the SSD but rather the code of the game itself.

Here is spiderman running on PS5 in both PS4 BC mode and PS5 mode. Notice the differnece considering its the same game:

Time stamped:

 

[Nickolaidas]

It hasnt got anything to do with the SSD but rather the code of the game itself.

Here is spiderman running on PS5 in both PS4 BC mode and PS5 mode. Notice the differnece considering its the same game:

Time stamped:

I KNOW what the PS5 can do when optimized.

I'm just saying that unoptimized games make the console look bad, when compared to the XSX. At least, in terms of loading times.

A BC game loading in 60 seconds doesn't exactly scream 'no loading times' y'know?

And this is EXACTLY what I was afraid of, ever since I saw the 0.8 second load of SPider-Man. Many people were going, 'wow! PS4 games will load in one second', and I would say 'are we SURE that's regular BC? Or was Spider-Man's assets optimized to take advantage of the PS5 in that video'?

I got my answer. Can't say I'm happy.

Oh, sure, it runs PS4 games better and faster ... but I expected a LOT faster, like, 10 seconds max to load an AAA PS4 game. Not this 60 second crap.

 

[saintjules]

Crossing over Consoles because 1440p isn't supported. Must be bait?

 

[smallpotatosan]

It's sarcasm (I thought this was obvious). It does not have to be fixed.

i figured. it's Friday. I'm slow. haha

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

 

[user1337]

Crossing over Consoles because 1440p isn't supported. Must be bait?

Honestly, reddit posts like that don't really bring anything to the conversation. Everyone is vary aware that some players (vocal minority) would want 1440p support. It also makes for nice headlines to get clicks and the same vocal minority outraged.

The fact is the majority of PS5 players will either have a 4K TV or still be using a 1080p TV rather than a 1440p monitor.

Would it be nice to have 1440p support: Absolutely!
Will it happen in a future update: I see no reason why not, but there is no way to know for sure.

More than 1440p, I am more annoyed at the missing VRR and ALLM. Both of which have been advertised, and i suspect will be in a patch very soon. Still would have been nice ot have that from day 1.

 

[carloseduardocd]

Why my mighty, super, ultra high speed SSD loads these games like my 101-year-old grandma's slow eat?

Because PS5 backwards games are not using dedicated Kraken HW for decompression. These games are using CPU Zen2.

If the game doesn't have boost mode, it's even worst, because it's running on PS4 Pro Legacy mode, with CPU capped at 2.1GHz.

Solutions?

1) Boost mode at 3.5GHz CPU
2) Change PS4 game compression from zlib to kraken.

 

[HoofHearted]

I don't understand the much frustration around the SSD loading times... Was everyone under the assumption that we'd see instantaneous loads all of a sudden?

So far - it's about as expected for both consoles - faster than previous gen(s) - dramatically in certain cases.

I wouldn't expect to see significant changes in loading times for anything but latest/newest games developed specifically to take advantage of the new hardware...

The more impressive aspect of this gen is that we're finally seeing 60fps+ as a "minimum" - even on the BC games for both consoles with little/no changes required on behalf of the devs...

 

[VanSiriusGabriel]

Supposedly they didn't even send copies out yet.

I can assure you they did, at least in Italy. Which is a minor sector btw, so very little doubt on others.

 

[kyliethicc]

Can we take a moment to appreciate Mark Cerny? Dude has redeemed himself.

Cerny builds the PS4 - good and fun console, at least at first. But then - Cerny built Knack as a launch game.

This was both his moment of genius.. and his greatest failure.

And so we find that the PS4 that Cerny himself designed was too weak to run Knack. It struggles with all the graphics.

So did Cerny quit? No. He worked tirelessly over 7 years to design a brand new next generation PlayStation, just to ensure that his promise of Knack could be fulfilled. (Remember now, Knack is a very technical game, he can get bigger and smaller.)

This is why Mark said the PS5 was made to allow creators to achieve their goals, their vision. He had unfinished business as the godfather of Knack, our hero. 30 FPS is not fucking good enough for the full true Knack experience.

What a journey of redemption. You can rest now Mark, the greatest game of all time is no longer held back. We are saved. Glorious Ice Knack rendered in a perfect 1700p, all running at a buttery smooth 60 FPS. Gaming truly doesn't get any better than that.

 

[cragarmi]

I KNOW what the PS5 can do when optimized.

I'm just saying that unoptimized games make the console look bad, when compared to the XSX. At least, in terms of loading times.

A BC game loading in 60 seconds doesn't exactly scream 'no loading times' y'know?

And this is EXACTLY what I was afraid of, ever since I saw the 0.8 second load of SPider-Man. Many people were going, 'wow! PS4 games will load in one second', and I would say 'are we SURE that's regular BC? Or was Spider-Man's assets optimized to take advantage of the PS5 in that video'?

I got my answer. Can't say I'm happy.

Oh, sure, it runs PS4 games better and faster ... but I expected a LOT faster, like, 10 seconds max to load an AAA PS4 game. Not this 60 second crap.

Your missing a vital piece of the puzzle, quite why Sony didn't hold off till the next embargo for this, or moved this 'surprise' to today, I really don't know!

 

[TwistedSyn]

Crossing over Consoles because 1440p isn't supported. Must be bait?

That's the persons own fault. Should have waited for actual confirmation from SONY on that before purchasing it.

 

[Katt”BuckNasty”Johnston]

Are any of these BC running in Boost Mode? If not wouldn’t they just run at the same clocks as their native platform, hence they slower load times?

 

[TLZ]

I'll be too busy playing my XSX and testing!

 

[Mahavastu]

I think the following was not mentioned yet, but might be of interest to some:
it seems the PS5 is quiter in horizontal position than in vertical position.

In the timestamped video below (german, sorry) the noise was measured. Sadly I do not know anything about "sone" and "decibel", but they say that everything below 1 sone can not be heard. Maybe someone else can fill in more.

in menu:
horizontal: 0.1 sone
vertical: 0.1 sonse

digital downloaded (without drive usage)
Spiderman Miles Morales PS5:
horizontal: 0.8 sone
vertical: 1.1 sonse

God of war 2018 PS4:
horizontal: 0.6 sone
vertical: 0.9 sonse

with drive (they probably mean that the drive is spinning and running a game, but it was confusing)
horizontal: 1.3 sone
vertical: 1.0 sonse

timestamped video, german

 

[mejin]

Posted?

The Falconeer

Generations of poisonous decisions and treason swirl in the deep, as factions collide. Become the Falconeer and soar through the skies aboard a devastatingly powerful Warbird. Uncover secrets lost to the sea as you join or oppose different factions and clans scattered throughout The Great Ursee...

www.metacritic.com

Opened at 73 on meta.

 

[cragarmi]

It must go back to the Digital Foundry surprises and the post I quoted around 10:30 ish today.

If I had to guess

Something hides in plain sight!

 

[sircaw]

.

Can we take a moment to appreciate Mark Cerny? Dude has redeemed himself.

Cerny builds the PS4 - good and fun console, at least at first. But then - Cerny built Knack as a launch game.

This was both his moment of genius.. and his greatest failure.

And so we find that the PS4 that Cerny himself designed was too weak to run Knack. It struggles with all the graphics.

So did Cerny quit? No. He worked tirelessly over 7 years to design a brand new next generation PlayStation, just to ensure that his promise of Knack could be fulfilled. (Remember now, Knack is a very technical game, he can get bigger and smaller.)

This is why Mark said the PS5 was made to allow creators to achieve their goals, their vision. He had unfinished business as the godfather of Knack, our hero. 30 FPS is not fucking good enough for the full true Knack experience.

What a journey of redemption. You can rest now Mark, the greatest game of all time is no longer held back. We are saved. Glorious Ice Knack rendered in a perfect 1700p, all running at a buttery smooth 60 FPS. Gaming truly doesn't get any better than that.

i am over all pretty happy today, the only slight blemish for me is so of the older loading times.

However looking at the grand picture of it all, from thermals to noise, to the ui to the controller to the way new games load.

I think Mark Cerny has delivered BIG TIME.

 

[dimaveshkin]

isn't anything to fix. most games are a couple seconds within single digits in the difference. both consoles got a big upgrade with load times.

To go from unnoticeable, unless you got your stopwatch going to even more unnoticeable???

Yeah gosh Sony, you have to fix this!

Fanboys from the opposite camp are laughing at us!

I expected the fact that loading times are not in linear relation with SSD speeds, but what I didn't expect is negative result from a superior hardware.

Sony: claims to remove every single bottleneck from the storage (and developers don't even need to do anything extra), resulting into near 100x loading times increase
People: Yea, that's really cool. It's a really strong point against competitor. We might get lower resolution, but loading times are gonna be immense.
Sony: Brings worse loading performance than a direct competitor with two times slower SSD in not so old games.

Why would people get mad at underdelivering, right?
I see, that Spider-Man is fast, but how much of that is on console's part, and how much is dev's commitment to fully utilize it? We gonna see a lot of cross-gen games in following year or two, and lot's of them not gonna have bigger adjustment than res and fps numbers from past-gen code. And devs might be just as comfortable about times they get during normal development just as you are right now. Why should they care if it's the same or a bit worse than XSX, if it still reasonable and don't require extra work? But we as customers should care about promises being delivered. Should we expect worse results for third-party cross-gen games too? It won't look good for Sony to have longer loading times with that bravado about high-end custom SSD. For now we need to wait to see at least how games optimized for next-gen compares on both platforms, but I already know that i will temper my expectations by a lot.

Sony is constantly giving small unpleasant surprises here and there and it really worsen the overall feeling from the purchase I made. And the fact that competitor is actually checking every box that Sony misses is not helping. That's why i said that Sony need to address this issue and fix it. As a customer I expect best performance from the hardware and i don't feel it delivers it yet.

 

[xacto]

Because PS5 backwards games are not using dedicated Kraken HW for decompression. These games are using CPU Zen2.

If the game doesn't have boost mode, it's even worst, because it's running on PS4 Pro Legacy mode, with CPU capped at 2.1GHz.

Solutions?

1) Boost mode at 3.5GHz CPU
2) Change PS4 game compression from zlib to kraken.

Or just wait those loading times, play the game at 60 FPS and call it a day. Most people knew Sony wasn't that big on BC optimization to begin with.

And we'll take a look at those next-gen games then, designed around the SSD.

 

[PSX]

 

[kyliethicc]

.


i am over all pretty happy today, the only slight blemish for me is so of the older loading times.

However looking at the grand picture of it all, from thermals to noise, to the ui to the controller to the way new games load.

I think Mark Cerny has delivered BIG TIME.

I agree. I was just making a dumb Knack joke shitpost lol but on a serious note - yeah the PS5 seems great.

The PS4 game load times suck and are the only disappointment for me.

But the console, its power, graphics, sounds, the controller, SSD speed, UI, etc... and most importantly.. the games, all look great.

Very exciting times ahead.

 

[dimaveshkin]

Cyberpunk 2077 was promised to work as BC title before it receives proper update somewhen next year. Should we also expect worse loading times for PS5 there too? This game gonna receive huge media coverage. Comparisons gonna pop-up here and there all the time. Sony have really messed up their messaging with "near-instant loading times".

 

[Mahavastu]

I don't understand the much frustration around the SSD loading times... Was everyone under the assumption that we'd see instantaneous loads all of a sudden?

Yes, and all informations we had before today were pointing in that direction

I wouldn't expect to see significant changes in loading times for anything but latest/newest games developed specifically to take advantage of the new hardware...

we talk about a lightning fast SSD with DRAM, and a MUCH faster hardware overall. Even without patch the loading times should be WAY faster than what we saw so far, which is hardly faster then a PS4 with SSD.
Tbh, I did not see a satisfying explanation yet, why the loading times are as bad as they are. So far nothing really made sense.

 

[kyliethicc]

This is why Sony says this about BC lol

These kind of bugs can happen. Nothing to worry about for either system.

 

[Andodalf]

I don't understand the much frustration around the SSD loading times... Was everyone under the assumption that we'd see instantaneous loads all of a sudden?

So far - it's about as expected for both consoles - faster than previous gen(s) - dramatically in certain cases.

I wouldn't expect to see significant changes in loading times for anything but latest/newest games developed specifically to take advantage of the new hardware...

The more impressive aspect of this gen is that we're finally seeing 60fps+ as a "minimum" - even on the BC games for both consoles with little/no changes required on behalf of the devs...

People Shat all over the XSX load times as a sign that it had a terrible SSD and that the PS5 would dog it.

People had a lot of Eggs in this basket, and they look really stupid.

 

[Hashi]

Holy shit. When SONY said you don't have to install patches anymore on the PS5, they weren't kidding.

And that's beggining of the story

 

[MasterCornholio]

People Shat all over the XSX load times as a sign that it had a terrible SSD and that the PS5 would dog it.

People had a lot of Eggs in this basket, and they look really stupid.

What about next gen games? I'm genuinely curious about how they load on the PS5.

 

[bitbydeath]

Cyberpunk 2077 was promised to work as BC title before it receives proper update somewhen next year. Should we also expect worse loading times for PS5 there too? This game gonna receive huge media coverage. Comparisons gonna pop-up here and there all the time. Sony have really messed up their messaging with "near-instant loading times".

Should be fine.

New PS4 games must also run on PlayStation 5 from July, Sony tells devs

Sony has told PlayStation 4 game developers that any new titles submitted for certification must also be compatible wit…

www.eurogamer.net

 

[Kerlurk]

I expected the fact that loading times are not in linear relation with SSD speeds, but what I didn't expect is negative result from a superior hardware.

Sony: claims to remove every single bottleneck from the storage (and developers don't even need to do anything extra), resulting into near 100x loading times increase
People: Yea, that's really cool. It's a really strong point against competitor. We might get lower resolution, but loading times are gonna be immense.
Sony: Brings worse loading performance than a direct competitor with two times slower SSD in not so old games.

Why would people get mad at underdelivering, right?
I see, that Spider-Man is fast, but how much of that is on console's part, and how much is dev's commitment to fully utilize it? We gonna see a lot of cross-gen games in following year or two, and lot's of them not gonna have bigger adjustment than res and fps numbers from past-gen code. And devs might be just as comfortable about times they get during normal development just as you are right now. Why should they care if it's the same or a bit worse than XSX, if it still reasonable and don't require extra work? But we as customers should care about promises being delivered. Should we expect worse results for third-party cross-gen games too? It won't look good for Sony to have longer loading times with that bravado about high-end custom SSD. For now we need to wait to see at least how games optimized for next-gen compares on both platforms, but I already know that i will temper my expectations by a lot.

Sony is constantly giving small unpleasant surprises here and there and it really worsen the overall feeling from the purchase I made. And the fact that competitor is actually checking every box that Sony misses is not helping. That's why i said that Sony need to address this issue and fix it. As a customer I expect best performance from the hardware and i don't feel it delivers it yet.

Sony never claimed that BC games would load fast. You're claiming that.

The fact that PS5 version of Spiderman loads incredibly fast shows that Sony did meet their claims. Going forward the SSD will be an incredible asset for games developed for the PS5 only, especially for streaming in game assets as your moving through the world.

I think what we are getting is comparable to the competition, and they have the same problem. Their BC games are not loading that fast, and no where near the 2.4 GB/sec rate of their SSD. If that was the case, than their maximum load of a BC title would be no more than 5 seconds.

Their faster "difference" in loading is not noticeable without a stopwatch, and your average gamer is not going to care about that difference, and most likely would not even be aware of it.

Of course a developer can code for both loading mechanisms, and get PS5 loading speeds for a BC title, but that requires a lot of work, and might result in larger file sizes (two sets of compressed assets possibly), but I think going forward developers would sooner put in the effort for a full PS5 version instead.

The fact we're getting 60 fps in almost all BC titles is amazing.

Digital Foundry: "PlayStation 5 Backwards Compatibility Tested - And It's Fantastic!"

My last post on this topic.

 

[Mahavastu]

Are any of these BC running in Boost Mode? If not wouldn’t they just run at the same clocks as their native platform, hence they slower load times?

Yes, most of the games should be in Boost mode. So the emulation of lower hardware is not the explanation

 

[TLZ]

Nope

What is it?

 

[dimaveshkin]

Should be fine.

New PS4 games must also run on PlayStation 5 from July, Sony tells devs

Sony has told PlayStation 4 game developers that any new titles submitted for certification must also be compatible wit…

www.eurogamer.net

This rule basically requires game to be playable at PS5. It doesn't restrict code from being run via BC mode.

 

[Mahavastu]

What about next gen games? I'm genuinely curious about how they load on the PS5.

There are not enough native PS5 games yet with gameplay footage and measurement.
Anyway, Spiderman MM and Astrobot (I think the only PS5 native games mentioned in the reviews today) are loading extremly fast. We know from the (older) gameplay footage of Demon Souls, that the loading here is also extremly fast

So from what we know the loading speeds for PS5 native games is very fast

 

[jamwest24]

It must go back to the Digital Foundry surprises and the post I quoted around 10:30 ish today.

If I had to guess

Do you think that’s it or is it just some lame “We’re surprised backwards compatible games load faster a lot of the time on Series X” comparison video..

I certainly hope you’re right.

 

[Duchess]

I imagine we'll learn a little later on that Sony is deliberately throttling the IO for PS4 BC games in order to achieve maximum compatibility.

If a dev expected even with the fastest drive available at the time that their loading would take at least 20 seconds and then along comes a drive that does it in 3, that could cause all sorts of issues. From the player's point of view, it could mean a loading screen that never completes, etc.

While not exactly the same thing, Bioware experienced an issue when developing KOTOR that the CD speeds in the Xbox varied depending on who the manufacturer of the drive was. MS didn't source the hardware from just one maker. It meant that the asset streaming ended up being faster or slower from one machine to the next, and broke their loading process. They fixed it of course, but it just goes to show. (Source: read this in an issue of Retrogamer a number of years back, when they ran a Making Of ... feature.)

 

[MasterCornholio]

There are not enough native PS5 games yet with gameplay footage and measurement.
Anyway, Spiderman MM and Astrobot (I think the only PS5 native games mentioned in the reviews today) are loading extremly fast. We know from the (older) gameplay footage of Demon Souls, that the loading here is also extremly fast

So from what we know the loading speeds for PS5 native games is very fast

I'm guessing the PS5 is doing some level of emulation with PS4 games that are causing the loads to take alot longer. In the video where the guy compares the two versions of Spiderman you can see the PS5 load time to be almost non-existent in comparison to the PS4 version.

With that said I don't think it's correct to judge the PS5s I/O with BC. It's already been prove that natively built games will perform alot better with it.

 

[Blue Spring]

People Shat all over the XSX load times as a sign that it had a terrible SSD and that the PS5 would dog it.

People had a lot of Eggs in this basket, and they look really stupid.

Quite happy that the thread about BC loading times was made and how it went because now xbox fanboys have no justification to cry and moan about the many many future loading time comparisons.