Lupingosei
Banned
You base your whole argument of the success of a game on the US market alone?
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You base your whole argument of the success of a game on the US market alone?
ZippyTheOtter
Banned
It's almost like cherry picking a statistic without context you can spin a story however you want.
It's an amazing game, with some serious flaws. I'm amazed folks act like these both can't be true.
I'd LOVE for an actual conversation on this forum about legit criticisms of the game. Instead all you get is "woke SJW trash that doesn't respect it's audience" and "story bad". Followed by any framing possible to make it look bad.
It's an amazing game, with some serious flaws. I'm amazed folks act like these both can't be true.
phat_crazy
Member
I've accepted people love this game and it's story
But people who love this game can't accept people who don't like it or hate it or don't think it's some masterpiece or game of the generation
I beat the game and have already stated I enjoyed some aspects I thought they did really well
Combat was great, music was great, immersion was great, some pacing issues but a lot of intense encounters, etc.
Too bad the story fell apart and they made an unwise decision for that second half
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Klayzer
Member
I was speaking specifically about the sales stuff. The story and direction of the game is a matter of personal taste, as is all games. My only issue is posters pretending it isn't selling well for agenda reasons.
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yurinka
Member
TLOU2, TLOU1 and GoT instead were released on June/July, so their first 2-3 months cover summer, the worst selling portion of the year. So it makes sense to compare their start in sales.
Spiderman intead was released on September, so its first 3 months or so cover the best selling portion of the year for the AAA games, so the comparision isn't very fair. And well, Spiderman is one of the most popular IPs in the world. Considering these things, having Spiderman only a 2M lead isn't a big thing. I'd bet TLOU2 will close this gap with its first holyday season & PS5 launch window when making a more fair comparision (maybe 1st year sales).
You don't know if TLOU2 sold more or less than Zelda looking at the NPD ranking because it's only for a single country instead of worldwide and doesn't cover digital sales. And well, Nintendo games have legs because in their platforms they have way less big selling game competition (CoD, GTA, etc) so when new players come they buy older popular games because there are fewer recent popular games.
Aligning releases and looking to the TLOU2 period we have, as you say Spiderman and GoW have this around 1M and 2M user lead over TLOU2, while TLOU2 has a lead of 2.8M over TLOU1. Specially due to 1st week sales difference because other than that they are pretty similar. TLOU1 has a way bigger total userbase than the other ones because later was released on PS4, won many GOTY awards, was included in PS Plus and PS Now, was heavily discounted and well, it has been more time in the market.
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Agnostic2020
Member
Its the fastest selling exclsuives game in PlayStation history and number 3 best selling game of the year in 3 months since release.
Get over it . Maybe better luck with tlou3 selling bad ?
Explosive Zombie
Banned
There's that goalpost shift!
Klayzer
Member
Right on time!
Lupingosei
Banned
I like it how
It is the fastest selling, that is why is selling worse than Spiderman oder God of War? At the moment Ghost of Tsushima is also selling way faster. It sells so well, that it fell out of every Top 10 charts.
And it had the biggest sale drop and now sells less than 2 -3 year old games on the platform.
It will not make half of the sales of the original, get over it. It is just a game.
But I am sure it will win a lot of awards, so everybody can tell each other how great it is doing.
It is the fastest selling, that is why is selling worse than Spiderman oder God of War? At the moment Ghost of Tsushima is also selling way faster. It sells so well, that it fell out of every Top 10 charts.
And it had the biggest sale drop and now sells less than 2 -3 year old games on the platform.
It will not make half of the sales of the original, get over it. It is just a game.
But I am sure it will win a lot of awards, so everybody can tell each other how great it is doing.
Lupingosei
Banned
What was this global pandemic thing again?
This is also from the reeee thread
NPD August 2020: Madden #1, UFC 4 #2, PGA Tour #14,10 Switch exclusives in top 20; Switch #1 HW and best August ever in the US (in $ sales) Sales
Yes it could help, its really hard to say what's happening with TLOU2. Raw numbers are still okay, so if it stabilises here it will still probably leg on past 10M globally which is amazing but I think some people were expecting better. Also multiplayer could give the game a big boost depending...www.resetera.com
When even a groupie forum like reee that basically worships the game admits it's doing poorly you know something is wrong
Shmunter
Member
Stories exploring the human condition will forever polarise opinion. Putting up a mirror to the player will offend, inspire or disappoint, depending on personal perspective.
Based on gaming as an entertainment medium, games like Last Of Us are critical to advancing the medium. Standout title, love or hate.
Based on gaming as an entertainment medium, games like Last Of Us are critical to advancing the medium. Standout title, love or hate.
Kadayi
Banned
^ On point
The unique strength of gaming as a medium is in player agency and interactivity. When people start throwing '10/10 masterpiece' 'GOTG' statements at titles which barely cater to either of those you have to genuinely to wonder whether they even game outside of a select few titles and genres.
Case in point I've been playing Crusader Kings III a lot, which is ostensively a strategy title but is fuelled by the personalities of the characters in the game. Anyway last night I started a new game as a lowly (but diplomatic) Earl in Viking era Ireland. First thing I needed to do was find myself a suitable wife and being in that period he could have up to four wives. I trawl through a whole bunch of different candidates and one I spot who I think would make for a great one who happens to be in the court of this aged Earl of a nearby county, however for various strategic and political reasons I need to build better alliances firstly, so I don't propose a marriage straight away.
However, once I've squared away a strong alliance with my primary wife, I then go to make the proposal to find out that the aged Earl has married her himself. I'm genuinely gutted. The smart play would have been, to let it go, but no my guy is like 'She's the one' so he secretly starts romancing her and after a long time eventually wins her heart and they form a strong bond together. However, then the aged Earl finds out and not only throws her in his dungeon but also publically denounces me which means all of my present wives absolutely despise me and hate her, and both of us are labelled adulterers which doesn't go down well with anyone in either of our families. Then to make matters worse I find out she's carrying my child and life expectancy in a dungeon isn't great. My current wives all tell me to give her up and that there's room in their hearts to forgive and forget but my guy is 'not in this lifetime' and goes full Robb Stark 'Call the Banners' and sets out to conquer the aged Earls Counties. I successfully manage to conquer one. However no sooner do I do that, then I get embroiled in fighting a bunch of invasions by Viking raiders in my own realm (which I've since expanded to a Duchy) so I'm forced to abandon freeing my heart's desire and rescuing my bastard son in order to keep the realm together.
Bloodied and bruised after about 3 years of constant warfare and the death of a good portion of half of my clansmen and my Brother in Law in the process I successfully manage to beat off the Viking threat with the help of the Prince of Wales and am just about to turn my attention to dealing with my rival when he himself gets usurped by a Viking invasion of his own. Thankfully my beloved and bastard son aren't captured and sacrificed to Odin and I manage to get them back to my court, however, she also brings along her three daughters and the aged Earl whose on his last legs with gout.
Understandably he absolutely hates my guts and who can blame him? I cucked him hard and helped bring down his Dynasty in the process and albeit there's only the one known bastard there's a dark cloud hanging over the legitimacy of at least one of his three daughters. Now having people like him in your court is never a good idea because they're free to get up to all sorts of schemes, especially given my wives aren't still aren't happy with me ( though as some time has passed I'm somewhat forgiven), but he's clearly dying at this point and already lost so much I just can't bring myself to throw him in the dungeon or have him discreetly murdered on the side. Instead, I set up his daughters with good matches and ensure that albeit his Dynasty won't necessarily likely ever rule again, at least it will persist and I put him to use educating some of the young children in my court (just not any direct heirs) within a year he passes and we're burying him in the graveyard and I'm finally free to marry my beloved, though I'm well aware that there are many at my court who still wish her dead and I will have to be ever watchful in that regard. Still with a powerful Viking ruler on my doorstep domestic matters might have to take a back seat for now as I try and navigate the choppy waters ahead and hopefully steer my Dynasty to greatest. Tonight the story continues. ...
All of the above happened in last night's play and everything that occurred was a result of player agency in terms of decision making throughout and the game responding to those choices and delivering consequences with some good old fashioned RND involved behind the numbers. The aged Earl might never have known about the affair, my romance might have resulted in being spurned, my beloved might have expired in the Dungeon earnestly waiting for me to rescue her, the Vikings could have taken her hostage and whisked her back to Sweden and either sacrificed her to Odin or held her for ransom, there were hundreds if not thousands of permutations as to how things could have played out. Emergent narrative all the way through, and although thematically many people who play Crusader Kings can undoubtedly regale you with similar tales of daring-do and Courtly intrigue, they'll never be exactly the same. Things will always be different and distinct, and that is the true power of gaming as a medium when it plays to its strengths versus attempting to continue to ape and play second fiddle to Film and Television.
The idea that someones unpleasant experience is somehow a 'win' for the creator is quite possibly one of the most fucktarded statements to ever grace this forum. I'm not entirely sure why people persist in saying it.
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tassletine
Member
I've had some good discussions here, but I know what you mean.
My problem with the game is only with the story (or lack of it). Everything else was great.
The serious flaw is that the writers seem to think that pitying characters, or showing people in pain is what makes people empathise with them. That's almost their only trick and they use it continuously.
This is stacked against the fact that ND went out of their way to make the main characters utterly unlikeable though -- So we find that pity doesn't work very well in this context.
That goal is an almost impossible task that was made much worse by how dumb the main characters behaviour were.
If they both behaved intelligently then there would have been a much greater chance for empathy, but the story as it stands is really just one of a stupid girl doing stupid things and ending up alone. And other behaving stupidly and suffering in a different way. It's not much of a story, even as a cautionary tale.
Agnostic2020
Member
It sold amazing and its above 7 million copies sold till now in 3 months . Get over it and cry somewhere else bud
alabtrosMyster
Banned
I just hope that whoever does the next uncharted game doesn't make it too much like UC 4 and more like 2 & 3.
TLoU 2 is a great game in many respects, but it goes way too far in exposition (side characters don't need that much back story, it just becomes tedious, and all those flashbacks ad my eyes rolling after a while).
I will probably re-play it on new game + soon tho.
TLoU 2 is a great game in many respects, but it goes way too far in exposition (side characters don't need that much back story, it just becomes tedious, and all those flashbacks ad my eyes rolling after a while).
I will probably re-play it on new game + soon tho.
People like to compare sales number of games, usually it's more exclusives from one platform against another... but Sony has no real competition in the market they serve (and Nintendo just sells way too much to compare, this would be too embarrassing), hopefully MS comes back in the game making--seriously--business soon.
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LockeKappa
Neo Member
Third highest selling Sony game behind GoW (who's entire story premise is based around TLOU1's Joel/Ellie dynamic) and a game based on the most popular superhero in the world. Needless to say I don't think Sony is unhappy, even if the game was purposefully divisive. Sure they could have played it safe and sold 3mil more copies by now, but if that's not what's true to the writers and the creators, then thats not the product I want.
Chromata
Member
Ellery
Member
Aren't you guys (that goes both way. those that love this masterpiece of a game and those that don't) slowly getting tired/annoyed by this discussion going in circles with always the same people posting the same things ?
Ah who am I kidding see you all again in the October charts thread
Ah who am I kidding see you all again in the October charts thread
Kadayi
Banned
LOL That's all you can muster. You Sad Cunt.
Shmunter
Member
How can the game be out of the minds of fans, if it’s still living on so strongly in the minds of haters? Circular affirmation.
Chromata
Member
Kadayi
Banned
No lies detected.
Chromata
Member
I wasn't going to engage because you seemed (really) mad, but I didn't say that it was a win for the creator. Just that some people can't seem to get over their hate for the game, most of us have moved on. Although I will say that people caring this much shows how good of a job they did the first time around.
TLDR;
I love this game probably more than anybody else on this forum but I can admit it is divisive. That being said many great things were divisive at the time of release and while it has many haters it also has many who love it. I would rather have a game like this than something safe that pleases everybody but doesn't really stand out.
Madflavor
Member
There are plenty of things that please almost everybody and also stand out. Wouldn't that be better? Isn't that what the first game did?
Kadayi
Banned
NotaGamer post: 260146933 said:
LOL. I'm not mad, I'm just bemused. Whilst you've been dicking around trying to come up with more one-trick pony responses because you're under the mistaken belief I'm an Xbox fanboy (never owned one) I've been happily winning a few wars and murdering a few unfortunately ill-placed rivals in between my firstborn Son and Heir and an extremely advantageous marriage with the King of Wessex eldest and rather talented daughter. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Men_in_Boxes
was completely on point with he said. It's very easy to get sucked in by the smooth leather of lush graphics and motion capture animations, but that alone doesn't make for a good game in most peoples eyes.The first game was a new IP and was released in a less divisive time. Also there were plenty of people who didn't like it and called it a movie game.
Chromata
Member
LOL. I'm not mad, I'm just bemused. Whilst you've been dicking around trying to come up with more one-trick pony responses because you're under the mistaken belief I'm an Xbox fanboy (never owned one) I've been happily winning a few wars and murdering a few unfortunately ill-placed rivals in between my firstborn Son and Heir and an extremely advantageous marriage with the King of Wessex eldest and rather talented daughter. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
When did I say that?
Fanboy wars are a waste of time.
You do you, dude.
EDMIX
Member
Almost everybody? Folks got mad about Ellie being gay in the first game so.... I'm not sure I'd go as far as to say " almost everybody".
So I agree with W Woggleman with this one. I'd rather have a game that doesn't play it safe. I'm 100% fine with the developer making the game they wanted. So your just not going to please everybody by default, why compromise your vision to aim to do something that can't be done?
If you made a game, wrote a book, shot a film, show etc, I'd want you to make the fucking work you want.... not altering or changing the work based on what a fan is saying, even if that fan is me....
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mikefrails
Banned
The leaks really did this game a disservice. Hopefully it gets a second chance on PS5.
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EruditeHobo
Member
Seems to have sold very well overall, that's the only thing that matters. The ledge they went out on, not doing the easy or simple thing and instead telling a very specific story, was rewarded overall, just not by the very vocal minority. It's not a game designed to be liked by everyone, obviously. That's ok.
Complaining about it seems like a poor use of time, but what do I know... it's your time to do with what you will.
Thank god for that... what a shame that would have been -- "yeah we could tell a really specific story, or really grind the edges off in order to make something more palatable, more conventional, less interesting... but it might make us more money!"
Imagine wanting this. How unfortunate.
Complaining about it seems like a poor use of time, but what do I know... it's your time to do with what you will.
Thank god for that... what a shame that would have been -- "yeah we could tell a really specific story, or really grind the edges off in order to make something more palatable, more conventional, less interesting... but it might make us more money!"
Imagine wanting this. How unfortunate.
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xBlueStonex
Member
Lmao at the fanboys still trying to defend this train wreck. It sold well initially off the back of TLOU1 and Naughty Dog’s reputation. That’s it. Now, 3 months later, it’s not even charting under 2-3 year old games because of awful it is. Keep spinning it however you choose, numbers don’t lie.
Cleared_Hot
Member
The story was nonstop unenjoyable. Gameplay was decent enough though.
I played it for the story and it was a disjointed, plot holed mess.
I played it for the story and it was a disjointed, plot holed mess.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
Sure, lets see all those people who are calling it a flop.
LockeKappa
Neo Member
Of course people admit the backlash hurt it, thats not the debate. People are saying its a failure and didnt sell well, which obviously just isnt true.
Kadayi
Banned
Madflavor
Member
Ellie being gay didn’t become a thing til the DLC, and there weren’t that many people upset by it. Besides I’m talking about the vanilla TLOU experience. I’m digging my heels in and saying the vast majority of people enjoyed that game, and even if that weren’t the case, there were far, faaar more people who enjoyed it than Part 2.
I get what you guys are saying, but at the end of the day the ultimate victory is to not compromise your vision, and simultaneously create something that most people enjoy. That’s the best case scenario for a writer.
Last time I saw a writer give zero fucks about the fans and completely did what he wanted was The Last Jedi. It ended up damaging the brand and the trilogy.
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There wasn't backlash when Left Behind came out because those days were not as divisive times as we have today. 2013 seems like generations ago. When that kiss trailer came out is when the real backlash started. There were a bunch of youtube videos including one by Robin Gaming talking about Naughty Dog agenda and that is when they started calling Neil Druckmann Neil Cuckmann. When the leaks came out it turned what was already there up to ten and we have the backlash we have today. It's no coincidence that this game is better received on mostly progressive boards like Restera and panned on more right wing boards. Also I notice that female streamers tend to be much more positive on the game than male ones. There are many with real and legitimate criticisms that have nothing to do with the culture war but the worst of the backlash is something way more than that.
thismeinteil
Member
Receipts, please.
thismeinteil
Member
Lol, the TLJ argument all over again. People weren't saying that movie flopped, either. It just greatly underperformed. Didn't stop the defenders using straw man arguments, making up that everyone critical of the film were saying it was a flop.