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[roops67]

Huh.. just saw someone link this on Retittyta..

So the PS5 presentation WASNT actually all real time rendered?

No way it's off-line video files (as you may think it's inferring), those days are gone. It makes no sense as the video files will take up waay too much space, even if heavily compressed the artifacts will surely be apparent. Saves a lot of space and practical to have the geometry an textures rendered in-engine in higher quality than gameplay, just like every other game cut scenes these days

It sounds as if he may be referring the 'pre-rendered' to the animation being pre-set ie predetermined as in fixed, which would make sense. Yes I agree it still sounds confusing, maybe he's used wrong choice of words cos it sounds self conflicting 'pre-rendered in the game engine'!?!

 

[FeiRR]

I don't know. It was quite obvious for me which part Is some sort of cinematic and what was gameplay. I was hyped for kena gameplay and artstyle, not quality of prerendered cinematic. I've seen some xbox fans hyping State of Decay 3 graphic, these are the people you should speak with

It's a problem with people who believe that "this gen we'll see Pixar level graphics". Okay, it can be Pixar level but from 10 years ago. Realtime rendering has to produce 30 or 60 frames per every second to ensure that gameplay is smooth. When you make CGI, you have a machine (usually many) which have 2-3 orders of magnitude more power than your $400-500 home console (or even your $3000 PC). Moreover, you can wait minutes, even hours for every frame. This gives another 2-3 orders of magnitude. If anyone thinks that we can have perfect CGI-level graphics in realtime, they're just plain stupid. The work of realtime graphics programmers and artists is mostly to trick you and hide problems in rendering. Those people are like magicians who direct your attention to something else while doing dirty tricks.

 

[Setsuna Mudou]

That's a very heartfelt list-war Sony defence, well done.

Was it necessary though? I don't think so, especially as it doesn't really address my point. I won't bother addressing the things you've mentioned here that are either untrue, misleading, exaggerated or claimed as fact when completely unknown (which is virtually everything you've written).

All I said was that if the Series X is the better for third-party games, then Xbox is far from surrendering the AAA experience to Sony.

When comparisons of the same game running on both are available we'll know the truth. People will decide for themselves if the difference is worth considering.

Could you please clarify what you mean by "better for third-party games"?

 

[Mmnow]

It's a problem with people who believe that "this gen we'll see Pixar level graphics". Okay, it can be Pixar level but from 10 years ago. Realtime rendering has to produce 30 or 60 frames per every second to ensure that gameplay is smooth. When you make CGI, you have a machine (usually many) which have 2-3 orders of magnitude more power than your $400-500 home console (or even your $3000 PC). Moreover, you can wait minutes, even hours for every frame. This gives another 2-3 orders of magnitude. If anyone thinks that we can have perfect CGI-level graphics in realtime, they're just plain stupid. The work of realtime graphics programmers and artists is mostly to trick you and hide problems in rendering. Those people are like magicians who direct your attention to something else while doing dirty tricks.

The Pixar problem is that they're world leaders at this stuff and they keep just raising the bar and raising the bar. Realistically, video games will never catch up to what they're doing, not only because of your perfectly valid points, but because by the time anybody even attempts it, Pixar have improved upon themselves five or six times.

It's just an impossible expectation.

BUT. I don't have a problem with people being excited by the prospect of a game finally living up to an earlier Pixar film in real time graphics. When I hear people say Pixar levels, I presume they're talking about a Toy Story or a Bugs Life, and that's not anything to be ashamed of.

 

[Shmunter]

No way it's off-line video files (as you may think it's inferring), those days are gone. It makes no sense as the video files will take up waay too much space, even if heavily compressed the artifacts will surely be apparent. Saves a lot of space and practical to have the geometry an textures rendered in-engine in higher quality than gameplay, just like every other game cut scenes these days

It sounds as if he may be referring the 'pre-rendered' to the animation being pre-set ie predetermined as in fixed, which would make sense. Yes I agree it still sounds confusing, maybe he's used wrong choice of words cos it sounds self conflicting 'pre-rendered game-engine'!?!

I hope so. I fully expect anything pre-rendered next gen being completely redundant as you say.

Cutscene quality assets should be available on demand with fast I/o making gameplay and cutscene transitions seamless. There also should be no need for cutscene videos masking background loading.

Strange statement, and even stranger approach if video indeed used.

 

[lepermessiah]

Pissing over in-engine cinematics is peak first world micro-problems.

 

[Snowdonhoffen]

So The Avengers game pre orders went up in Amazon (at least in PS4)

 

[skneogaf]

Selling a console without a controller in the box is a great idea as I have numerous xbox pads from having the original xbox one, xbox one s and then the xbox one x.

I'd much prefer to buy the xbox series x without a control pad although the d-pad does look better.


The fact you can buy pads separately makes the console sold without makes so much sense.

I'll need one for the ps5 but won't for the ps5 Pro if there is one.

 

[Delpij]

Man walks into a dimly lit room, light bleeds across the room from a shoulder mounted communication device. It is the most light in the scene. There is a light mist and sparks spew from a torn electrical wire tossing light and particles around as the man cautiously makes his way across the room. His boots leave prints as he walks across the polished floors the dim light showing his reflection in the floor. The wire behind him cracks and slows as it comes to a stop along with all of the other lights in the room shutting off at the same time. The man covers the device on his shoulder but the light bleeds through his hand. The man pulls a firearm and continues making his way through this large sterile room. A noise behind him and he turns around removing his hand from the device at his shoulder and revealing himself to everyone. The light illuminates the room and a table he had walked past has been knocked over. The table cloth is still slowly settling on the floor along with all of the other things from the table that have been strewn about. Off in the distance a pair of yellow eyes open and fix on the man. (You will know who he is but I cannot say) he raises his fire arm and fires off several shots. The flash from the gun illuminating the darkness as the creature reels then attacks. Another set of eyes opens as it runs across the room at him. You can see the impact of the weapon punching holes in this thing as it makes its way across the room. The man backpedals and falls down (Monster is right on top of him at this point) over something as he is trying to get away. He fires off a few more shots while on his back and scampers to his feet. The monster still chasing he makes his way into the next room and slams the door behind him. You hear a series of clicks and other weird noises coming through the door. The man leans up against it and you hear a deep inhalation come from the other side of the door like the creature is sniffing around for his scent. The man is breathing heavily and removes one hand from the door and clutches his side, blood is running down his side and his pant leg and pooling under the door. Last shot is the creature kneeling on the other side of the door putting one hand to the blood (creature has four arms) then smelling it. "I have found you." He almost sings the words then the title screen shows and that's it.

Lets see if anyone else can get this detailed. It is the best looking anything that I have ever seen and the character models lighting and physics are on another level. The main character is impossible to confuse with anyone else and this game has not been revealed but I have hinted at it several times. This is not a cut scene or a render target it is actual game play and it is very impressive. Well the end is a cut scene but man ..... You literally cannot tell the difference and Yes



This was definitely all one shot.

Edited to add: I was just given the go ahead to post this and it is from an early vertical slice that I did get to see.
And before anyone asks No I cannot describe what the man is wearing because it would be a dead giveaway.

What happened to this?

 

[Rea]

So The Avengers game pre orders went up in Amazon (at least in PS4)

So, Sony's anti-consumer thing is working? Or should i say pro-consumer?

 

[Codexer]

 

[farmerboy]

What happened to this?

I still believe

 

[Killer Sakoman]

The Pixar problem is that they're world leaders at this stuff and they keep just raising the bar and raising the bar. Realistically, video games will never catch up to what they're doing, not only because of your perfectly valid points, but because by the time anybody even attempts it, Pixar have improved upon themselves five or six times.

It's just an impossible expectation.

BUT. I don't have a problem with people being excited by the prospect of a game finally living up to an earlier Pixar film in real time graphics. When I hear people say Pixar levels, I presume they're talking about a Toy Story or a Bugs Life, and that's not anything to be ashamed of.

RT will eventually become difficult to distinguish from pre rendered. The Gap is getting smaller. Some film makers are moving to UE4 instead of offline renderes.

The real differences between RT and Offline are artifacts, animation complexity, ray tracing.

Polygon count and textures already almost same with new gen.

 

[Dodkrake]

I'm not understanding why some of you guys can't tell offline rendering from videogame cutscenes. It's so jarring it's so easy to tell. That video was mostly rendered with an offline render and the gameplay snippets are significantly "gamey" looking.

One good tell-tale sign is just by looking at hair rendering. There is no way that ANY GPU can render fur like this:

There is self-shadowing everywhere. The grass looks completely accurate and self-shadowed to give thickness. The DOF is astounding both front and back. The eyes on the creatures are completely reflecting using ray-tracing. There are no aliasing artifacts anywhere.

When have you ever seen FX emit lighting and shadowing in a videogame cutscene where every particle is a light source. And then see the subsurface scattering on the skin light up like that?


Gameplay:

All the shadowing is gone. The motion blur gives artifacts, the tree's leaves in the distance are shaded flat, the character lost her SSS. The little furry things have lost their hair, tree branches on the walls don't cast ambient occlusion, etc.. etc.. etc..

Ember Lab

Ember Lab is driven by a passion for telling great stories. We’re currently working on our first game, Kena: Bridge of Spirits.

www.emberlab.com

I bet it will look better than HFW, especially if running on PC

 

[roops67]

Caught this...

Apple confirms cloud gaming services like xCloud and Stadia violate App Store guidelines

Cloud gaming and iOS are at an impasse, for now.

www.theverge.com

Apple being cnuts cos they're not getting a share of the pie

 

[Dodkrake]

Caught this...

Apple confirms cloud gaming services like xCloud and Stadia violate App Store guidelines

Cloud gaming and iOS are at an impasse, for now.

www.theverge.com

Apple being cnuts cos they're not getting a share of the pie

Don't worry. I'm sure Apple will come up with their own version of XCloud in a few years and then claim they were the pioneers.

 

[saintjules]

He's just trying to be this outlet for people to reach to if they don't see this content anywhere else. Doesn't know much unfortunately.

 

[Mmnow]

RT will eventually become difficult to distinguish from pre rendered. The Gap is getting smaller. Some film makers are moving to UE4 instead of offline renderes.

The real differences between RT and Offline are artifacts, animation complexity, ray tracing.

Polygon count and textures already almost same with new gen.

I'm not sure the gap is getting smaller. It's getting less obvious, but compared to the N64 or even the PS3 days, you're looking at different things.

Go watch Toy Story 4. Those differences are huge. No next-gen game will come close, and by the time video games catch up, CGI for film will be even more unreal.

Pixar is a good measuring stick, but don't compare to anything in the last 15 years. It's a losing comparison.

 

[Cobenzl]

If there are questions on the small black furry things being pre-rendered CGI vs in-engine/in-game or whatever, why not ask the Emberlabs devs themselves unless I missed the post where it was explained?

 

[DrDamn]

Godfall I quite like the look of, I'd like to see some extended footage where the game isn't being played on easy though. The footage from yesterday is mostly enemies lining up patiently to be killed. Do they actually fight back?

 

[Thirty7ven]

Pre rendered cutscenes on PS5/XSX is such a non starter.

 

[sircaw]

That's a very heartfelt list-war Sony defence, well done.

Was it necessary though? I don't think so, especially as it doesn't really address my point. I won't bother addressing the things you've mentioned here that are either untrue, misleading, exaggerated or claimed as fact when completely unknown (which is virtually everything you've written).

All I said was that if the Series X is the better for third-party games, then Xbox is far from surrendering the AAA experience to Sony.

When comparisons of the same game running on both are available we'll know the truth. People will decide for themselves if the difference is worth considering.

There is nothing Sony defense about it. Sony are the one in the driving force at this start of the generation.

Most of Microsoft's big games are 2-3 years out.

You're trying to sell a generation again on the premise of "oh it looks better than the competition because we have a more powerful machine."

Its basically Power vs innovation, that's it. Sony are going the extra mile, they are offering more to the casual gamer with all those improvements I mentioned and we are not just talking about superior games here.

The gap in power even smaller than before.

I am sorry you don't like hard facts but that is the truth.

 

[2ndKrueger]

Man, i just want to put down my pre-order soon.. Im getting so tired of this waiting game Inb4 State Of Play being announced end of month to show of Playstation Now and new movies coming to the playstation store

 

[Darklor01]

I know this SoP wasn't intended mainly for next gen, my rant was about the bigger Sony info disclosure picture. Looks like so far we have more indie gameplay than bigger titles'.

So far, yeah. If you believe in rumors Though, there is still a “marathon” of big announcements to come. Personally, I’ll believe it when I see it.

 

[XO_o]

http://dlvr.it/Rd9wqy

 

[FunkMiller]

http://dlvr.it/Rd9wqy

Hmmmmm. I fear the size of the wave of boiled piss that is coming at us real soon...

 

[Shmunter]

http://dlvr.it/Rd9wqy

Sony found a loophole in the Minecraft contract...boom

 

[Killer Sakoman]

I'm not sure the gap is getting smaller. It's getting less obvious, but compared to the N64 or even the PS3 days, you're looking at different things.

Go watch Toy Story 4. Those differences are huge. No next-gen game will come close, and by the time video games catch up, CGI for film will be even more unreal.

Pixar is a good measuring stick, but don't compare to anything in the last 15 years. It's a losing comparison.

How much could pixar improve? They are already photo real with the lights, shadows, skin, hair. They cannot be more real than real.
It's RT graphics that are evolving at very high rate. You will have hardtime distinguishing between them in the future. There will always be artifacts, low res textures, broken reflections here and there in RT however.

 

[JonnyMP3]

Hmmmmm. I fear the size of the wave of boiled piss that is coming at us real soon...

True. But on the otherhand, the amount of NaCl given away is going to be good for my chips

 

[Mmnow]

How much could pixar improve? They are already photo real with the lights, shadows, skin, hair. They cannot be more real than real.
It's RT graphics that are evolving at very high rate. You will have hardtime distinguishing between them in the future. There will always be artifacts, low res textures, broken reflections here and there in RT however.

I've learned from experience to never ever doubt that graphics will get better.

I never want to say never about RT graphics matching their output either. Potentially I guess it could happen, if Pixar reach a ceiling, but I don't see it happening. I wouldn't be disappointed if it does though.

 

[FeiRR]

Image quality in games is coming close to the point when you won't care about it getting better, apart from a few maniacs with zooming fetish and an eye for artefacts. What we really need is better physics. That's what games lack a lot.

 

[Killer Sakoman]

You have to explain how an already realistic render of hair and skin can become more realistic? This is not a case where this can be possible. This is like saying the count from 0 to 100 can include the number 345.
The future of offline render graphics is not to become better, but to be rendered faster.

 

[LED Guy?]

PC fanboys like VFXVeteran will just have to accept that Horizon Forbidden West will DESTROY every game on PC in graphics!!

Also why didn't you make that Detroit Become Human level that you promised Digital Foundry's John Linneman with back in 2018? You were crying a lot back then and every time when Sony releases an exclusive, you cry, scream and cry.

TLOU 2 already looks better than any game on PC.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Sony found a loophole in the Minecraft contract...boom

Phil: We don't believe in exclusives on our platform which is why Minecraft 2 is timed exclusive on theirs.

That would be really weird.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Crazy, non sensical speculation on PS5 timed exclusive:

- Splinter Cell
- Tomb Raider
- Ninja Gaiden
- Prince of Persia

Otherwise the whole “it’s gonna be a big surprise, big multi platform game” bit is as obvious as... it’s Silent Hill.

 

[ksdixon]

Hmmmmm. I fear the size of the wave of boiled piss that is coming at us real soon...

Well then... That's me having PTSD flashbacks to that South Park episode

 

[ksdixon]

http://dlvr.it/Rd9wqy

I'm guessing RE Village, as I am hoping it will have a PSVR mode to it.

Or that rumor of Final Fantasy 16

Depending on definition of "multiplatform", it could be the Silent Hill remake by Sony Japan Studio that's rumored. multiplatform on PS5 and later PC etc.

 

[Darius87]

someone here say that Kena bridge of spirits cutscenes are cg offline render and i agree it looks like cg but UE5 demo looks way better then kena cutscenes even gameplay looks better i know it's very different art styles but if UE5 demo is possible on PS5 HW then it's clearly kena CG graphics should be possible also on PS5 of course without these expensive rendering techniques but that doesn't mean it would look worse UE5 demo is great example why.

 

[kyliethicc]

http://dlvr.it/Rd9wqy

COD, GTA, FF16, RE or Elden Ring. Silent Hill is most likely being developed by Sony so I don’t think that would count.

 

[IntentionalPun]

The most important thing is, Sony informs us what we see. If it's realtime from a devkit or PS5, we have it written on screen. If it's in-engine, we know that they're working on it.

But we don't know that actually was my point; they said it was all running on PS5, and then later a dev said some of that was pre-rendered cutscenes. So we just don't know what of the presentation was real time, other than stuff lie Ratchet Gameplay.

 

[ksdixon]

COD, GTA, FF16, RE or Elden Ring. Silent Hill is most likely being developed by Sony so I don’t think that would count.

My memory's rusty. I think it was COD that locked a map pack, or a game mode to PS4 for an entire year in the past - by which time of course the sequel would be released.

Are you saying you think they'd do it for an entire game?

 

[SaucyJack]

Crazy, non sensical speculation on PS5 timed exclusive:

- Splinter Cell
- Tomb Raider
- Ninja Gaiden
- Prince of Persia

Otherwise the whole “it’s gonna be a big surprise, big multi platform game” bit is as obvious as... it’s Silent Hill.

To live up to the hype there’s only a few possibilities.

- GTA 6
- COD
- FIFA 21
- Overwatch 2
- Battlefield
- Fallout/Elder Scrolls

Anything not at that level gets shrugged off like Tomb Raider's XBO timed exclusivity.

 

[Thirty7ven]

someone here say that Kena bridge of spirits cutscenes are cg offline render and i agree it looks like cg but UE5 demo looks way better then kena cutscenes even gameplay looks better i know it's very different art styles but if UE5 demo is possible on PS5 HW then it's clearly kena CG graphics should be possible also on PS5 of course without these expensive rendering techniques but that doesn't mean it would look worse UE5 demo is great example why.

Really lame to have pre rendered cutscenes in any next gen game. Developers should strive to eliminate the disconnect in visuals between cutscenes and gameplay, and considering they won't even be needed to eliminate loading times, it's just a bad look if you have them.

To live up to the hype there’s only a few possibilities.

- GTA 6
- COD
- FIFA 21
- Overwatch 2
- Battlefield
- Fallout/Elder Scrolls

Anything not at that level gets shrugged off like Tomb Raider's XBO timed exclusivity.

Microsoft would have to piss off a publisher just as bad as Sega pissed off EA for any of those games to be exclusive, timed or otherwise. It's not happening.

 

[IntentionalPun]

No way it's off-line video files (as you may think it's inferring), those days are gone. It makes no sense as the video files will take up waay too much space, even if heavily compressed the artifacts will surely be apparent. Saves a lot of space and practical to have the geometry an textures rendered in-engine in higher quality than gameplay, just like every other game cut scenes these days

It sounds as if he may be referring the 'pre-rendered' to the animation being pre-set ie predetermined as in fixed, which would make sense. Yes I agree it still sounds confusing, maybe he's used wrong choice of words cos it sounds self conflicting 'pre-rendered in the game engine'!?!

He specifically uses the term pre-rendered vs. real time.

Those words have meaning.. some of the footage was not rendered in real time, but rather pre-rendered.

You are here claiming "well what he meant was in-engine real time".. and.. that's silly.. read the tweet, the dev knows the terms.

 

[BGs]

Is not confirmed, I am agree the communication is a shit but for Covid situation is also a miracle (born from the hungry of money) that
we have console launch this year.

I will buy both because looks like I hate any good advice related to money

Yes but I don't want to discover was also another joke/prank as his numbers for PS5 so I prefer to be skeptical with his comments, if he is correct
I will happy see that huge improvement 20% of RDNA and 25% for RDNA 2.

Also as he work with VR so his IPC could be different than a "normal" game, the IPC varies depending of the type of job, the number which usually
AMD or NVIDIA said are just an average for current games.

- I only joked with a single number.

- We do VR experiences for all VR devices on the market, including mobile. PSVR is just one of those devices.

You should go to some VR expo (yes, there is VR expo / event and many people are unaware of it). And you could try things like this ...

 

[JonnyMP3]

Crazy, non sensical speculation on PS5 timed exclusive:

- Splinter Cell
- Tomb Raider
- Ninja Gaiden
- Prince of Persia

Otherwise the whole “it’s gonna be a big surprise, big multi platform game” bit is as obvious as... it’s Silent Hill.

I could definitely go for a new POP!
I can imagine an ever changing world with no load screens as time constantly changes the world Geometry with the new SSD...

 

[IntentionalPun]

So much conceeeern

So much childishness.

This forum's complete inability to have any sort of conversation about Playstation that isn't praising them like the second coming of Christ is embaressing.

I'm not even "concerned"... I was just actually surprised to find that info out and shared it here.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

To live up to the hype there’s only a few possibilities.

- GTA 6
- COD
- FIFA 21
- Overwatch 2
- Battlefield
- Fallout/Elder Scrolls

Anything not at that level gets shrugged off like Tomb Raider's XBO timed exclusivity.

Definitely not any of those

 

[Hendrick's]

To live up to the hype there’s only a few possibilities.

- GTA 6
- COD
- FIFA 21
- Overwatch 2
- Battlefield
- Fallout/Elder Scrolls

Anything not at that level gets shrugged off like Tomb Raider's XBO timed exclusivity.

It won;t be any of those.

 

[SaucyJack]

.
Microsoft would have to piss off a publisher just as bad as Sega pissed off EA for any of those games to be exclusive, timed or otherwise. It's not happening.

Definitely not any of those

Then it’s not that big a deal. Are vast numbers of people not going to buy a Series X because Final Fantasy XVI or Tomb Raider or Resident Evil are not coming for 6-12 months? No one buys these games on Xbox anyway, for example barely 20% of FF sales were on XBO.

Either it’s one of the really big games or its much ado about nothing.