Support NeoGAF

[Dave_at_Home]

I find it interesting whether or not it's actually necessary for these systems to output at full 4K. When you consider all the talk on next-gen hardware, all the reveals, there's nothing on potential advances for either checkerboard rendering, or AMD's Fidelity FX. Surely these systems could potentially offer an advanced version of either offering as a choice for consumers. PS4 Pro's checkerboard rendering is pretty damn effective and while Fidelity FX is no D.L.S.S...at the end of the day it looks just about as good with a big performance uplift. I see no reason not to include a performance mode for both systems on most, if not all, games. Especially on Sony's side of things, they made a big deal on checkerboard rendering on PS4 Pro, and it's odd there's no word on any advancements for the PS5. If it's possible, than why even bother wasting GPU resources on 4K if your "upscaling" technique is just as good? Why not a performance 1440P mode while keeping everything else the same. Is this just a case of both systems being capable of hitting 4K, so why bother with anything else? Am I missing something? Anyone have any insight?

 

[GymWolf]

not if amd develop some IA learning reconstruction technique on the same level of dlss2 from nvidia.

or just render at 1800p to save resources while being not far from 4k.

 

[llien]

But why would you artificially lower the resolution?
It would be up to the developer to make the choices, but I suspect we have approached the point of diminishing returns, so a major performance hit only barely increases visuals. That would be the perfect time to up resolution.

That being said, I'm blown away by how great GoW looks while running on plain PS4, even though it is 1080p on a 65" screen.
Perhaps I need better eyes, or glasses.

 

[NickFire]

I would personally prefer to see what devs could do with 1080p as the main target for PS5 and Series X. But I know that won't be happening.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

I'd be perfectly happy with instead of 4K/60 we get 1800p at an unlocked framerate.

 

[Dave_at_Home]

But why would you artificially lower the resolution?
It would be up to the developer to make the choices, but I suspect we have approached the point of diminishing returns, so a major performance hit only barely increases visuals. That would be the perfect time to up resolution.

That being said, I'm blown away by how great GoW looks while running on plain PS4, even though it is 1080p on a 65" screen.
Perhaps I need better eyes, or glasses.

I guess you would lower the resolution if your upscale rendering technique is indistinguishable (if not almost) from true 4K. That way you could either push for a better looking game, or go for more frames.

 

[yurqqa]

I would personally prefer to see what devs could do with 1080p as the main target for PS5 and Series X. But I know that won't be happening.

This.

Unfortunately it'll be like in PS1 time - 2D graphics were uncool, so we got many games with god awful 3D graphics untill developers learned to get more out of PS1.

And now to get 4K 60 fps buzzword, we'll get graphics at the last gen level or even worse. That's sad.

It;s just like megapixel race when you tried to find last gen cameras that had adequate pixel density.

P.S. By the way, at PS1 time I was also hyped for 3D and prefered god awful 3D to beautiful 2D. But I got wiser.

 

[Mista]

4K gaming is dumb. That’s how I honestly see it

Its visually good for a while and then what? Not worth sacrificing performance for visuals. Not for me

 

[DemonCleaner]

1800p or 4k CB would be perfectly fine with me. if you aren't stuck with your nose to the display while playing, you shouldn't notice any difference to full 4k anyways

 

[Mokus]

I don't think there was ever such a huge resolution increase from one generation to the next on home consoles (if exclude the PS4 Pro and Xbox One X). I agree that they might pushing it too much with the 4K since even on PC it's an expensive experience.

 

[Chromata]

If next gen consoles can improve their image reconstruction techniques or get something along the lines of DLSS 2, then I don't see why native 4K should be the focus.

 

[Gamerguy84]

4k is a resource hog. Some of the best looking games Ive played were upscaled on PRO.

 

[Stilton Disco]

Having been able to look at 1080p, 1440p, 4K and 8K screens all side by side just before the lockdown shenanigans started, it was definitely 4K where the diminishing returns started to be noticeable. Anything between 1440p and 4K will do me fine, probably forever.

High framerates, low lag, no artifacting or ghosting and HDR were far more important than raw resolution too.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

1440p all the way.

 

[Dave_at_Home]

Having been able to look at 1080p, 1440p, 4K and 8K screens all side by side just before the lockdown shenanigans started, it was definitely 4K where the diminishing returns started to be noticeable. Anything between 1440p and 4K will do me fine, probably forever.

High framerates, low lag, no artifacting or ghosting and HDR were far more important than raw resolution too.

After all the time these consoles were in development it's hard to believe they don't have a killer upscale rendering technique. Just bizarre.

 

[Kerlurk]

Gaming Discussion

Video game news, industry analysis, sales figures, deals, impressions, reviews, and discussions of everything in the medium, covering all platforms, genres, and territories.

www.neogaf.com

 

[ManaByte]

People felt the last gen was necessary to render at 1080p. Funny how the goal posts change so quickly.

 

[Zuzu]

1800p with good anti aliasing is the sweet spot.

 

[Bankai]

No it is not. After playing lots of 1440p (checkerboarded) games on my 4K OLED, I can say that I’m very happy with image quality. I would MUCH rather prefer 60fps over 4K rendering. 1440@60 every day of the week.

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

Give me 1080p @ 60fps WITH a bit of eye-candy. Thank you.

 

[Fbh]

Not really.
I do prefer locked 30fps over unlocked 30-60fps framerates. But if a game manages to reach a solid 60fps (or nearly so) at 1800P or even 1440P, I'd always have that instead of native 4K.

Hopefully we see more and more next gen giving people a choice between both presets.

 

[Punished Miku]

Never has been. Lots of people literally can't even tell the difference.

 

[ManaByte]

No it is not. After playing lots of 1440p (checkerboarded) games on my 4K OLED, I can say that I’m very happy with image quality. I would MUCH rather prefer 60fps over 4K rendering. 1440@60 every day of the week.

If the system can do 4K 60 it should.

Never has been. Lots of people literally can't even tell the difference.

Like the human eye not being able to see 1080p?

 

[belteshazzar]

I personally think rendering in 4k is a waste of resources. I think personally 1080p is enough, but I really wish 1440p had become the standard.

 

[Punished Miku]

If the system can do 4K 60 it should.



Like the human eye not being able to see 1080p?

We don't have infinite magnification vision. At some point it will be barely visible. Just a question of when it's not worth it.

 

[Jaxcellent]

1440p/60 is fine for me, i feel thats the sweet spot, for me its the same as the difference in 720p to 1080p so to speak, it was HD enough and with todays checkerboarding 1440p will be 4k enough for me., for example I can clearly see the resolution bump is beyond Full HD. if we get 60 frames a sec that would be a great compromise.

Outside VR, I have no interests in spoiling my eyes on 120 frames a sec, I bet when you get used to that 30 seems like a slide show....

I know it's not a popular opinion to have but I'm really looking forward to next gen VR, this gen was great, but there is so much room for improvement, I can't wait to see it play out. Because if it will be what i think it will be, better buckle up your seatbelt.

 

[Dave_at_Home]

If the system can do 4K 60 it should.



Like the human eye not being able to see 1080p?

I know both systems can, the real question is if they should at all. If on these consoles exist a upscaling rendering technique that is so convincing that it literally makes true 4K output indistinguishable from one another; than why not save on GPU resources and simply do just that.

 

[Anki]

1440p/60fps is the sweet spot.

 

[Entroyp]

I believe it’s a waste of resources but I’m no graphic artist.

 

[Shai-Tan]

what they say in conferences is just pr. Of course many games will have dynamic resolution or reconstruction upsample techniques like DLSS.

with dynamic resolution it usually kicks in when you can’t see the detail anyway because current TV have poor motion resolution and reconstruction techniques have been improving enough that there is a good enough trade off with performance to justify it in games that are pushing the graphics

i Play a lot of games in native 4K and it definitely makes a difference. the question is if it’s worth vs a good upsample. For me it was worth to play native 4K in metro exodus in RTX but that was back when DLSS looked awful . I would probably play with it on if they gave it DLSS 2.0 considering how low the frame rate is in 4K with RTX on ultra (25-40)

 

[Dave_at_Home]

I wonder if the new Spiderman game will be utilizing some sort of upscaling technique only, or if it's a mix of that plus a reduction in other graphical enhancements?

 

[ACESHIGH]

I'd love that they focus on 4k and 60 FPS so I can still game just fine with an RX 580

 

[Psykodad]

343 should've went with checkerboarding. Or 1440p.

Then again, they can't do that after all that big talk from Spencer and Greenberg.

 

[The Hamburglar]

No it’s a fucking waste of resources it can die for all I care.

 

[april6e]

I mean, the answer is no. But you have a very vocal minority who froth at the mouth whenever a new console generation does not show a clear improvement over what they had before. Example: the Halo Infinite rage today over the "underwhelming" graphics.

Next gen consoles should be focusing on 1080p or 1440p/60fps standard across all titles. 4k/60fps is a pipedream that costs too much performance to be worth it, even for top end PCs.

 

[Bolivar687]

The 4K chase is still a mistake even next gen, as is a 60fps mandate.

Together, you get what happened today with Halo.

 

[Dave_at_Home]

I mean, the answer is no. But you have a very vocal minority who froth at the mouth whenever a new console generation does not show a clear improvement over what they had before.

Next gen consoles should be focusing on 1080p or 1440p/60fps standard across all titles. 4k/60fps is a pipedream that costs too much to run, even for top end PCs.

Pretty much feel the same way. Marketing and plenty of gamers love the 4K badge.

 

[Dave_at_Home]

The 4K chase is still a mistake even next gen, as is a 60fps mandate.

Together, you get what happened today with Halo.

What happened today with Halo was Microsoft focusing the base foundation of this game on Xbox One. Simple as that. I'm not against it, it's just what it is.

 

[NoviDon]

If the system can do 4K 60 it should.

 

[Dodkrake]

I think rendering games at a native 4k is wasted capability for better graphics. Sure, if the game can have its vision achieved while natively running at 4k, so be it, but if you need to make graphical or logical compromises, then just use a lower resolution and upscale with checkerbording or other techniques. I'd much rather have 1440p games at 60fps than native 4k at 30fps for next gen exclusives.

 

[Garjon]

No I'd be happier with the option of 1080p for 60fps, I just don't think the performance drain for native 4k to be worth it. In fact, most would find it hard to discern between upscaled 1440p and 4k native, but console makers need to chase 4k native for marketing reasons.

 

[M1chl]

It's never dumb, if that's a native resolution of display...

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

No, it's not necessary. I feel like we have pampered ourselves too much. I can still tolerate games on a 240p crt and on a cramped DS screen. Is it ideal? In some cases yes, in some cases no, but the point is that I grew up just dealing with what you had and enjoying games. I never owned the best PC, nor the best monitor, nor the best TV. I have a really nice one now, far better than anything my parents owned or own.

Just let devs make the game using the resolution they want. The market will decide. Doesn't Diablo III on Switch dip into sub-HD resolutions? How many millions did that version still sell?

 

[ZywyPL]

Unfortunately yes because that's the resolution of modern TVs. All games shown so far look so clean, so crisp, exactly because they're running in 4K. Other than Nvidia's DLSS, which is an exception of a rule, all of the upscaling techniques make the overall image soft, blurry, which goes agains the whole idea of 4K to begin with.

 

[Hydroxy]

Yes it is necessary since there is no 1440p option.

 

[pawel86ck]

I find it interesting whether or not it's actually necessary for these systems to output at full 4K. When you consider all the talk on next-gen hardware, all the reveals, there's nothing on potential advances for either checkerboard rendering, or AMD's Fidelity FX. Surely these systems could potentially offer an advanced version of either offering as a choice for consumers. PS4 Pro's checkerboard rendering is pretty damn effective and while Fidelity FX is no D.L.S.S...at the end of the day it looks just about as good with a big performance uplift. I see no reason not to include a performance mode for both systems on most, if not all, games. Especially on Sony's side of things, they made a big deal on checkerboard rendering on PS4 Pro, and it's odd there's no word on any advancements for the PS5. If it's possible, than why even bother wasting GPU resources on 4K if your "upscaling" technique is just as good? Why not a performance 1440P mode while keeping everything else the same. Is this just a case of both systems being capable of hitting 4K, so why bother with anything else? Am I missing something? Anyone have any insight?

Checkerboard upscaling or ML uplscaling yes. AMD CAS upscaling hell no, because it's just very good sharpening filter and you can add that on every HDTV.

 

[Salmon Snake]

1440p/1800p checkerboard to 4K is good enough for me.
Horizon, Death Stranding, God of War and Naughty Dog games do it just right.

For PS5 we just need the option to choose 60 fps.

 

[llien]

if your upscale rendering technique is indistinguishable (if not almost) from true 4K.

This is a bit of Baron Munchausen pulling himself out of the swamp.
Upscaling is still upscaling. It might get pretty results on scenes on which AI was trained specifically (so that information about those scenes is essentially shifted to the matrix of neuron weights), but that's all that is.

 

[TGO]

Whatever Horizon is I can accept that.
Although I have noticed 1080p games no longer look as good as they did before on my 4k display so I'm forced to say yes higher then 1080p is needed.
Now films are another kettle of fish
1080p Blu ray is enough but 4k is nice to have.

 

[nikolino840]

This is actual then never