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[makaveli60]

Check out HDR videos of R&C in YouTube and see if you can tell a difference. That first area is more about the blacks than anything and is a good test to see how dark your panel can get while keeping detail. If you see no difference on YouTube I would have to say it's the panel.

Will do

Hostile_18
Okay, so maybe the problem is with my expectations. But then what's the reason for that HDR Youtube videos look much better in HDR mode than in SDR. The difference is huge in a positive way with much better colors, besides having the light-dark contrast as well

 

[Nikana]

Will do

Hostile_18
Okay, so maybe the problem is with my expectations. But then what's the reason for that HDR Youtube videos look much better in HDR mode than in SDR. The difference is huge in a positive way with much better colors, besides having the light-dark contrast as well

The video could have been purposefully made with color saturation cranked.

 

[Hostile_18]

Will do

Hostile_18
Okay, so maybe the problem is with my expectations. But then what's the reason for that HDR Youtube videos look much better in HDR mode than in SDR. The difference is huge in a positive way with much better colors, besides having the light-dark contrast as well

Yeah as above usually tech demo videos are oversaturated and bright to attract people.

Best bet might be find someone with a calibrated screen and compare their HDR image. Alternatively give the image a week and see what you think (getting use to an image that isnt full of blue, dynamic colours etc).

Lastly and i wouldn't advise it, but changing your tvs HDR mode settings to do the same process it may be doing to your SDR image.

If your tv has a movie mode try that on SDR material as that is usually the closest to the right setting (accurate white point etc). If you want to post your tvs SDR and HDR screen settings I can look over them.

 

[makaveli60]

Yeah as above usually tech demo videos are oversaturated and bright to attract people.

Best bet might be find someone with a calibrated screen and compare their HDR image. Alternatively give the image a week and see what you think (getting use to an image that isnt full of blue, dynamic colours etc).

Lastly and i wouldn't advise it, but changing your tvs HDR mode settings to do the same process it may be doing to your SDR image.

If your tv has a movie mode try that on SDR material as that is usually the closest to the right setting (accurate white point etc). If you want to post your tvs SDR and HDR screen settings I can look over them.

Ok, I will, post pics later about the settings.

 

[TGO]

Also included 2 screenshots, though I assume it doesn't help much, first one is sdr, second is hdr

Umm, I assume you've gone into input settings and enable enhance HDMi?
Also your display information doesn't show what format it supports, it does on mine
But maybe that's because I have a PS4 Pro
And you adjusted the HDR set-up?
I'll try and upload a picture

You done this?

And should kinda look better then this lol
Yeah can't really capture HDR

 

[makaveli60]

Yeah as above usually tech demo videos are oversaturated and bright to attract people.

Best bet might be find someone with a calibrated screen and compare their HDR image. Alternatively give the image a week and see what you think (getting use to an image that isnt full of blue, dynamic colours etc).

Lastly and i wouldn't advise it, but changing your tvs HDR mode settings to do the same process it may be doing to your SDR image.

If your tv has a movie mode try that on SDR material as that is usually the closest to the right setting (accurate white point etc). If you want to post your tvs SDR and HDR screen settings I can look over them.

First couple of screens are hdr then the sdr

Edit: for some reason the upload always fails... will try later again

 

[Hostile_18]

First couple of screens are hdr then the sdr

Edit: for some reason the upload always fails... will try later again

Probably file size

 

[TGO]

First couple of screens are hdr then the sdr

Edit: for some reason the upload always fails... will try later again

Anything over 1mb it'll fail

 

[Blond]

So one thing I noticed is that you're running RGB? Current HDR standards don't support that (to my knowledge) because it doesn't have enough bandwith, it should be YCbCr422.

 

[JeloSWE]

So one thing I noticed is that you're running RGB? Current HDR standards don't support that (to my knowledge) because it doesn't have enough bandwith, it should be YCbCr422.

No need to worry about that, the PS4 will adjust automatically. It just needs HDR enabled, a display that supports it and it should work.

 

[makaveli60]

Yeah, the files are over 1 mb so that's why I can't. Though how is it that yesterday I could? Took with the same phone and settings.

Anyway, today's updates:
Bought a HDMI 2.0b cable and tried God of War with the smith scene, and yeah this is closer to what I expected. Though I don't know yet if it's the cable or the game, will test now Infamous again and report back.
Tested the calibration kit Y YCoCg suggested: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-display-calibration/2943380-hdr10-test-patterns-set.html
Based on this, my TV is definitely capable of good HDR: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1x8K1vHx4AvzkX4dt3fhj3_i_LdG_RA7z/view
Did the first black level test and as the test says 64 and below are definitely not visible.
Also did the white&color clipping test and it's around 950 nits when it's starts to merge with the background.
However, these videos are unplayable on both the PS4 and Xbox One, so I couldn't test those.

 

[makaveli60]

Okay, so made some more testing, and HDR definitely works based on those calibration videos. However, Infamous is the same. The only difference HDR does is that it darkens the picture. The neon looks almost the same as in sdr, it doesn't pop out more (although it pops out in sdr too to begin with).
Correct me if I'm wrong but 3 things are possible in my opinion:
1. The base consoles are just incapable to properly display HDR, this is my biggest hope, since I bought the TV for nextgen mostly anyway
2. My TVs hdmi ports are faulty (I really hope they aren't)
3. It's a hit or miss, this is what HDR should look like in games and I must accept this. Though it's difficult to do so after the insane praise I've seen/heard about gaming in HDR

 

[makaveli60]

Finally it let me upload the settings pics Hostile_18
First ones hdr, then sdr

 

[Hostile_18]

I still think the more likely option is the SDR image is over saturated on its default level.

Try putting it to movie mode on both SDR and HDR and compare.

Also make sure you dont have a black level mismatch if your getting black crush

Edit: Just seen photos looking now.

 

[makaveli60]

I still think the more likely option is the SDR image is over saturated on its default level.

Try putting it to movie mode on both SDR and HDR and compare.

Also make sure you dont have a black level mismatch if your getting black crush

Edit: Just seen photos looking now.

Ok, I'll try it tomorrow

 

[Hostile_18]

Yeah its as i suspected your SDR image is getting heavily manipulated by the tv.

Ill edit in the settings you'd want for an accurate image;

Black Adjust: None
Advanced Contrast Enhancer: Off
Extended Dynamic Range: Off
Colour Temp: Warm 2 (if too yellow Warm 1)
Live Colour: Off
Sharpness: 0 (or whatever is none added)
Reality Creation: Off
Noise Reduction: Off
Digital Noise Reduction: 0
Motion Flow: Off
Smooth Gradation: Off
Film Mode; Off

Basically you don't want your tv doing any post processing. Let the developers set the image they want. For reference load up a movie and see how much more realistic skin tones are and snow etc

Leave Colour Space Auto for HDR (that will be the proper extended range not the tvs extended range where it changes the colours). Basically your HDR was accurate but your SDR image was very different from what was intended by the developers. Tv manufacturers think they know what to do better than the content providers do in terms of what colours to use, but it can totally change the look of a scene from what its meant to be.

 

[Rikkori]

Yup, as I've suspected, you've enabled pseudoHDR in SDR and are generally oversaturating the hell out of your image. Follow Hostile_18's suggestions (except sharpness default is 50 for none added on Sony), and also contrast needs to be at 90 for default. And put it in game/graphics mode for goodness' sake! You're adding heaps of input lag with Standard.

Here's my setup for gaming:
SDR in low-light (I use graphics mode)
- Brightness at 9 (= 200 nits) at night, or 15-20 during the day (= 300ish nits)
- Contrast at 90
- Colour 50
- Light Sensor OFF (always!)
- Gamma -2 (to get to 2.2 gamma exactly you'd want -1, this will result in a darker picture with better perceived contrast but I like -2 more)
- Black level 50 (always!)
- Black adjust OFF (always! well, there's one exception - Chimera Squad benefits from it on low)
- Adv Contrast Enhancer OFF (pretty much always; useful for pseudo HDR in Witcher 3)
- Auto local dimming High (you can do medium but difference is hard to notice, this should always be on)
- X-tended Dynamic Range OFF (this is for HDR or pseudoHDR if you want to fake it)
- Hue 0
- Colour Temperature Expert 1 (pretty much always, it's the most accurate)
- Live colour OFF (for the love of god, don't turn this on, it turns people's skin tons in lobster red! ok maybe you can use it on low in very rare scenarios but I'd rather recommend changing Colour to 55 and Hue to R5 instead for a bit of pop but without completely oversaturating)
- Sharpness 50 (default, don't touch!)
- Reality Creation Off (for console you can actually play around with this, it works very well with GTA V for example; 35-50 is the sweet spot)
- Smooth Gradation Low (I just leave it like this for everything; you could just turn it off but it helps a bit with banding when ti happens and doesn't blur the picture otherwise)
- Motionflow OFF (this is for movies)
- Film mode OFF
- Video Options stuff you just leave on AUTO

HDR (graphics mode)
same as above except the following should be true when TV enters HDR mode
- Brightness MAX
- X-tended Dynamic Range High

That's it.

Bonus: PseudoHDR, by which I mean that TV can be manipulated to show an approximation of HDR with SDR content. This is useful for example in games which don't have HDR (eg Witcher 3 on PC). I don't recommend it for every game but it's useful commonly enough that you should test it for yourself.
I use game mode for this, and with following changes from above:
- Brightness 25-30 or MAX (day time), at night even 20 will probably be too high even with ambient light in the room
- Black Adjust Low (very rarely, I'd still recommend Off in most cases even for PseudoHDR)
- Adv Contrast Enhancer Low
- X-tended Dynamic Range Low
- Colour 55 & Hue R5 OR Live Colour Low (more extreme option)

 

[Hostile_18]

Yup, as I've suspected, you've enabled pseudoHDR in SDR and are generally oversaturating the hell out of your image. Follow Hostile_18's suggestions (except sharpness default is 50 for none added on Sony), and also contrast needs to be at 90 for default. And put it in game/graphics mode for goodness' sake! You're adding heaps of input lag with Standard.

Here's my setup for gaming:
SDR in low-light (I use graphics mode)
- Brightness at 9 (= 200 nits) at night, or 15-20 during the day (= 300ish nits)
- Contrast at 90
- Colour 50
- Light Sensor OFF (always!)
- Gamma -2 (to get to 2.2 gamma exactly you'd want -1, this will result in a darker picture with better perceived contrast but I like -2 more)
- Black level 50 (always!)
- Black adjust OFF (always! well, there's one exception - Chimera Squad benefits from it on low)
- Adv Contrast Enhancer OFF (pretty much always; useful for pseudo HDR in Witcher 3)
- Auto local dimming High (you can do medium but difference is hard to notice, this should always be on)
- X-tended Dynamic Range OFF (this is for HDR or pseudoHDR if you want to fake it)
- Hue 0
- Colour Temperature Expert 1 (pretty much always, it's the most accurate)
- Live colour OFF (for the love of god, don't turn this on, it turns people's skin tons in lobster red! ok maybe you can use it on low in very rare scenarios but I'd rather recommend changing Colour to 55 and Hue to R5 instead for a bit of pop but without completely oversaturating)
- Sharpness 50 (default, don't touch!)
- Reality Creation Off (for console you can actually play around with this, it works very well with GTA V for example; 35-50 is the sweet spot)
- Smooth Gradation Low (I just leave it like this for everything; you could just turn it off but it helps a bit with banding when ti happens and doesn't blur the picture otherwise)
- Motionflow OFF (this is for movies)
- Film mode OFF
- Video Options stuff you just leave on AUTO

HDR (graphics mode)
same as above except the following should be true when TV enters HDR mode
- Brightness MAX
- X-tended Dynamic Range High

That's it.

Bonus: PseudoHDR, by which I mean that TV can be manipulated to show an approximation of HDR with SDR content. This is useful for example in games which don't have HDR (eg Witcher 3 on PC). I don't recommend it for every game but it's useful commonly enough that you should test it for yourself.
I use game mode for this, and with following changes from above:
- Brightness 25-30 or MAX (day time), at night even 20 will probably be too high even with ambient light in the room
- Black Adjust Low (very rarely, I'd still recommend Off in most cases even for PseudoHDR)
- Adv Contrast Enhancer Low
- X-tended Dynamic Range Low
- Colour 55 & Hue R5 OR Live Colour Low (more extreme option)

Yep i agree with everything you said (good catch on the Sharpness level) apart from that X-tended dynamic range should be on in HDR. Auto should default to the increased colour space, that option you mentioned sounds like the tv changing colours around to me (and that is the case with most tv manufacturers that have an option like this).

 

[Justin9mm]

Okay, so made some more testing, and HDR definitely works based on those calibration videos. However, Infamous is the same. The only difference HDR does is that it darkens the picture. The neon looks almost the same as in sdr, it doesn't pop out more (although it pops out in sdr too to begin with).
Correct me if I'm wrong but 3 things are possible in my opinion:
1. The base consoles are just incapable to properly display HDR, this is my biggest hope, since I bought the TV for nextgen mostly anyway
2. My TVs hdmi ports are faulty (I really hope they aren't)
3. It's a hit or miss, this is what HDR should look like in games and I must accept this. Though it's difficult to do so after the insane praise I've seen/heard about gaming in HDR

Sorry to hear the cable did not really fix the issue. I really doubt it's your TV or ports, I think it's the consoles. They weren't really made for HDR. I have a 4 year old Samsung 4K TV. It only has 8bit HDR from memory or some weird re-created 10bit. It's not the proper HDR10. I have a One X and a Pro and pretty much all HDR games look insane compared to SDR apart from a few poorly HDR implemented games and I did not need to do much calibration at all. I had a One S at one stage on this TV and I remember thinking the games look shit but wasn't really thinking about if it was a HDR issue at the time. You said the HDR on the Youtube looked great, you should see that similar performance from games.

Is there no way you can borrow a One X or Pro to try out to make sure it's not your TV? I play in game mode which turns most of post processing off. I assume that's the type of picture mode you are playing games in?

 

[makaveli60]

Hostile_18 Rikkori
Thanks for the settings lists, I will try them, but to be honest, they got me, because I REALLY like the way the image looks in these (almost) stock SDR settings. And what still remains the question is... when watching Youtube I use these same settings (I mean, I didn't really touch them, but I will compare if they are the same indeed though I think they should be) and if I'm watching a proper HDR video in HDR mode, it looks much better than in SDR mode and even compared to other TVs in the house. So something still doesn't seem right to me. So basically why is it that I get the "awesome" feeling with HDR videos and why don't I with HDR games while using the same settings?

Justin9mm
Yeah this would be the most logical idea, but unfortunately I don't know anyone who has the upgraded consoles. All my friends use base consoles. Well, I started working at a new place yesterday and one of the colleagues has a One X, but I think it would be a bit early to ask him to lend it to me
Another option would be if someone could send me HDR calibration videos that are playable on the consoles. For some reason the ones I tested the TV with natively are unplayable on the consoles.

 

[Justin9mm]

Hostile_18 Rikkori
Thanks for the settings lists, I will try them, but to be honest, they got me, because I REALLY like the way the image looks in these (almost) stock SDR settings. And what still remains the question is... when watching Youtube I use these same settings (I mean, I didn't really touch them, but I will compare if they are the same indeed though I think they should be) and if I'm watching a proper HDR video in HDR mode, it looks much better than in SDR mode and even compared to other TVs in the house. So something still doesn't seem right to me. So basically why is it that I get the "awesome" feeling with HDR videos and why don't I with HDR games while using the same settings?

Justin9mm
Yeah this would be the most logical idea, but unfortunately I don't know anyone who has the upgraded consoles. All my friends use base consoles. Well, I started working at a new place yesterday and one of the colleagues has a One X, but I think it would be a bit early to ask him to lend it to me
Another option would be if someone could send me HDR calibration videos that are playable on the consoles. For some reason the ones I tested the TV with natively are unplayable on the consoles.

I'm not sure if this was already mentioned but I was looking up your TV and it says only two of the 4 HDMI ports on your TV, HDMI Port 2 and 3 support 4K HDR, I assume you still need to plug the HDMI 2.0 cable into one of those to get the HDR support. I'm sure this has already been covered or you know this, just putting it out there just in case. Otherwise your issue is very strange, either you are very unlucky and got a faulty TV whether it be faulty HDMI ports etc. Or there is something very simple like a setting you are missing or the base consoles HDR support is just very bad.

I really don't believe you need to be tweaking a bunch of settings on your TV to get it to work as intended. You should still have some noticeable representation of HDR in the game regardless.

 

[makaveli60]

I'm not sure if this was already mentioned but I was looking up your TV and it says only two of the 4 HDMI ports on your TV, HDMI Port 2 and 3 support 4K HDR, I assume you still need to plug the HDMI 2.0 cable into one of those to get the HDR support. I'm sure this has already been covered or you know this, just putting it out there just in case. Otherwise your issue is very strange, either you are very unlucky and got a faulty TV whether it be faulty HDMI ports etc. Or there is something very simple like a setting you are missing or the base consoles HDR support is just very bad.

I really don't believe you need to be tweaking a bunch of settings on your TV to get it to work as intended. You should still have some noticeable representation of HDR in the game regardless.

Yeah, I know that, I also activated the enhanced mode on those ports. Do you think it is possible to have such a fault in hdmi ports? Or of it were faulty they wouldn't work at all? By the way, Doom Eternal looks better a little with HDR and the fire effects at the smith in GoW also look cool but they still don't wow me as much as the hdr videos I mentioned.

 

[Hostile_18]

From the settings you posted the HDR image is pretty much there in terms of accuracy but the SDR image is well off. If you like that that's fine but that will be why, your use to an overly saturated bright image and accurate colours look wrong. I image the Youtube videos are just display demos that they themselves are overly saturated to attract people (so overly saturated but still accurate to what the director intended in this case rather than something changed by the tv to be so, as in SDR material).

If your tv has a movie mode try getting used to that as that will take you 90% of the way there (and HDR will then be a similar image but alot better).

Games are mastered to the same standards films are but they are alot harder to calibrate by sight because their isnt usually human actors/skin tones to judge what is realistic. If i load up Horizon and put my default settings on outside of the expert modes the snow is literally blue, its crazy. Your eyes quickly adjust to what ever you watch, so its better in terms of entertainment to let the game designers build the sets/mood they want rather than let your tv decide for them. It makes a big difference even from something like the weather in a scene.. is it a cold frosty day, or a bright summers day etc.

 

[Rikkori]

Hostile_18 Rikkori
Thanks for the settings lists, I will try them, but to be honest, they got me, because I REALLY like the way the image looks in these (almost) stock SDR settings. And what still remains the question is... when watching Youtube I use these same settings (I mean, I didn't really touch them, but I will compare if they are the same indeed though I think they should be) and if I'm watching a proper HDR video in HDR mode, it looks much better than in SDR mode and even compared to other TVs in the house. So something still doesn't seem right to me. So basically why is it that I get the "awesome" feeling with HDR videos and why don't I with HDR games while using the same settings?

Justin9mm
Yeah this would be the most logical idea, but unfortunately I don't know anyone who has the upgraded consoles. All my friends use base consoles. Well, I started working at a new place yesterday and one of the colleagues has a One X, but I think it would be a bit early to ask him to lend it to me
Another option would be if someone could send me HDR calibration videos that are playable on the consoles. For some reason the ones I tested the TV with natively are unplayable on the consoles.

Like I said, you're not actually looking at SDR with your settings, it's a fake HDR instead. As for the HDR videos, it's probably because they're designed to be seen in HDR exclusively so they're gonna look best like that, while a game has to be both SDR & HDR compliant, and usually they err on the side of SDR.
Your console has 0 to do with it, so rest assured on that front. It's the same HDR no matter if you have a One S or a One X.

 

[Justin9mm]

Yeah, I know that, I also activated the enhanced mode on those ports. Do you think it is possible to have such a fault in hdmi ports? Or of it were faulty they wouldn't work at all? By the way, Doom Eternal looks better a little with HDR and the fire effects at the smith in GoW also look cool but they still don't wow me as much as the hdr videos I mentioned.

Well something is definitely wrong, Doom Eternal looks Amaaaazing in HDR on my One X. I love that game so much and I was not much of a Doom fan before.

I'd say it is the base consoles more than your TV. You can get the HDR working through the TV on youtube etc. as you mentioned so maybe those base consoles HDR support is just not up to standard.

 

[makaveli60]

Well something is definitely wrong, Doom Eternal looks Amaaaazing in HDR on my One X. I love that game so much and I was not much of a Doom fan before.

I'd say it is the base consoles more than your TV. You can get the HDR working through the TV on youtube etc. as you mentioned so maybe those base consoles HDR support is just not up to standard.

I really hope that's the case. It seems that a friend of mine can maybe get me a pro to try it. Will update later.

 

[makaveli60]

Hostile_18 Rikkori
I really appreciate your help (and everyone else's) in the thread, but changing the settings didn't really help. Like I see the picture is totally different without these post process effects but the hdr is still disappointing. The following games showed little no difference: AC Origins, Uncharted 4, Horizon, Infamous. Infamous for example only darkens the picture insanely but the neon doesn't pop out more. Well it pops out more because it stays bright while everything else gets dark, but it's basically the same as in sdr except I can see the world if I play in sdr. Is this really what I should see? I don't believe so. I saw a hdr demonstration video that is comparable to Infamous. It was a dark night with neon lights around buildings. The difference between sdr and hdr were night and day. In hdr, while it became darker at the same time the colourful lights popped out more, giving a realistic look to it. I would expect the same for Infamous but it's not like that in Infamous..
God Of War and Doom Eternal looks better, if I play with the ingame settings. Though I'm not sure if that's the merit of the hdr mode or it would result in this too if those settings were available in sdr mode.
I'm really at a loss here. Like I know the TV Is capable of properly showing hdr content, because I saw it with my own eyes, but the games I mentioned were always praised for their hdr mode and no matter what I do, I don't get that feeling as others. I understand that this is a hit or miss in games, but if others are praising these games' hdr modes, surely I should see something more. I'm quite frustrated because I spent much more money than I first intended to buy a new TV and I only did this because I wanted to see what is this fuss about hdr gaming. Do you guys have any other idea what could be the problem? Faulty hdmi ports possible? Or I wouldn't see anything at all in that case? My biggest hope is that it's just because of the base consoles...

 

[Nikana]

Hostile_18 Rikkori
I really appreciate your help (and everyone else's) in the thread, but changing the settings didn't really help. Like I see the picture is totally different without these post process effects but the hdr is still disappointing. The following games showed little no difference: AC Origins, Uncharted 4, Horizon, Infamous. Infamous for example only darkens the picture insanely but the neon doesn't pop out more. Well it pops out more because it stays bright while everything else gets dark, but it's basically the same as in sdr except I can see the world if I play in sdr. Is this really what I should see? I don't believe so. I saw a hdr demonstration video that is comparable to Infamous. It was a dark night with neon lights around buildings. The difference between sdr and hdr were night and day. In hdr, while it became darker at the same time the colourful lights popped out more, giving a realistic look to it. I would expect the same for Infamous but it's not like that in Infamous..
God Of War and Doom Eternal looks better, if I play with the settings. Though I'm not sure if that's the merit of the hdr mode or it would result in this too if those settings were available in sdr mode.
I'm really at a loss here. Like I know the TV Is capable of properly showing hdr content, because I saw it with my own eyes, but the games I mentioned were always praised for their hdr mode and no matter what I do, I don't get that feeling as others. I understand that this is a hit or miss in games, but if others are praising these games' hdr modes, surely I should see something more. I'm quite frustrated because I spent much more money than I first intended to buy a new TV and I only did this because I wanted to see what is this fuss about hdr gaming. Do you guys have any other idea what could be the problem? Faulty hdmi ports possible? Or I wouldn't see anything at all in that case? My biggest hope is that it's just because of the base consoles...

When you say you saw it with your own eyes working properly, what are you referring to?

 

[makaveli60]

When you say you saw it with your own eyes working properly, what are you referring to?

Youtube hdr videos and I also downloaded hdr calibration videos suggested by a poster in this thread. He said to play them on the ps4 but it couldn't play them (and neither the xbox) but the tv could from a usb stick and they worked properly as per the guide.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

 

[Nikana]

Youtube hdr videos and I also downloaded hdr calibration videos suggested by a poster in this thread. He said to play it on the ps4 but it couldn't play it (and neither the xbox) but the tv could from a usb stick and it worked properly in as per the guide.

Gotcha. Are you running through a receiver or anything. Sorry if this has been asked already.

 

[makaveli60]

Gotcha. Are you running through a receiver or anything. Sorry if this has been asked already.

Nope, ps4 on hdmi 2 and xbox on hdmi 3. These are the ports with hdr, and I also activated enhanced mode on them.

 

[Nikana]

Nope, ps4 on hdmi 2 and xbox on hdmi 3. These are the ports with hdr, and I also activated enhanced mode on them.

Well it's really tough to say. I promise you it's not a base console thing. HDR isn't really a "power" thing. HDR isn't free from a processing standpoint but it is cheap.

In fact the one S bumped the clocks slightly to alleviate any issues if there were any specifically relates to HDR.

One thing that stands out to me is that you say you are seeing differences in games but it sounds like you aren't getting that "pop" you expect or see in the YouTube videos.

Doom Eternal is kind of the go to right now imo as it gives you a ton of options that pertain to HDR that other games simply don't give you.

If possible I would use that games HDR settings as a benchmark and use it at stock settings to see if you are getting that "pop" without having to tweak the settings in game, but tweak the settings on the tv.

I don't agree with the Infamous example. I found the HDR to be laacking except the neon stuff. But that's not the only benefit of HDR.

But trust me when I say I understand your frustration. Even with a high end OLED, I have found HDR to be annoying at times. Sometimes it's mind blowing and other times it feels like it's not even on. But it also one of those things that once you are looking at it for so long and then you go back you notice the more subtle things right away.

But I say that mainly to make a point that it took me tweaking a REALLY long time to get it where i felt like I was always getting a benefit. It might be a case where this will require tweaking to get it to where you want it to be.

But I also want to say that you will likely never reach "demo" quality and trying to compare everything to a demo is going to leave you disappointed. Demos are disingenuous on purpose.

Does your tv have separate picture settings between HDMI inputs as well as different settings for HDR vs SDR?

 

[Hawking Radiation]

Some of you might have seen that I bought a new TV recently: Sony Bravia KD-49XG9005
It's a FALD LED TV so it shouldn't have problems showing HDR they way it's meant.
However, I have problems with gaming in HDR. Youtube HDR videos look amazing, the colors melt my eyes but for some reason, games are very disappointing. I have a launch PS4 and an Xbox One S, both used with the HDMI cables they come with on port 2 and 3 of the TV (these are the more advanced hdmi ports on the tv).
At best there is next to no difference in HDR mode, and in most of the cases the result is that the image becomes darker and the colors look washed out. Honestly, Horizon Zero Dawn and Forza Horizon 4 look better in sdr, they have more vibrant colors. I was also told that the neon in Infamous SS would be awesome but I can only see a minimal difference, while the game itself becomes very dark. I tried calibrating the TV settings too but no luck.
What can be the problem?

1) Check you have a good HDMI cable hooked up.

2) Check your PS4 video settings in the menu

3) Make sure your TV picture settings are unchanged (default) when you switch to your PS4 when its hooked up to your TV.

4) Some games have poor implementation of HDR. Read Dead 2 being a prime example. Still bothers me that turning off HDR looks best in this game.

 

[Rikkori]

Try comparing what you see in-game with the game in HDR on youtube. Do you see the same thing? But remember to keep modes the same.

And if you want, you can download proper game HDR footage from Gamersyde, but you have to create an account (free), though they have a youtube channel as well.

Try these 2, as videos I know for sure work properly: https://www.gamersyde.com/news_washington_d_c_in_hdr-21503_en.html
If you don't like them and how intense the light is, then it might just be a perception problem for you with HDR and you don't like what it does.

edit: and try this for good measure as well https://www.gamersyde.com/video_ghost_of_tsushima_ps4_pro_hdr_video-45073_en.html

 

[JeloSWE]

For the most accurate HDR image...

Game mode

Brightness
Brightness Max
Contrast 90 (~100) Use this one to boost highlights if they appear grayish
Gamma 0
Black level 50
Black Adjust Off
Adv. Contrast Enhancer Off
Auto Local Dimming Medium or High
X-tended Dynamic Range Max (This one is the most important)

Color
Color 50~60
Hue 0
Color Temperature Expert 1
Live Color Off (using it is incorrect but will give you a saturated candy image)

Clarity
Sharpness 50 (can be increased but be careful)
Reality Creation Off (can be used to your liking at lower values)

Motion
Motionflow Off

Video options
Auto on all

 

[JeloSWE]

My favorite HDR video on YT

 

[Hostile_18]

For the most accurate HDR image...

Game mode

Brightness
Brightness Max
Contrast 90 (~100) Use this one to boost highlights if they appear grayish
Gamma 0
Black level 50
Black Adjust Off
Adv. Contrast Enhancer Off
Auto Local Dimming Medium or High
X-tended Dynamic Range Max (This one is the most important)

Color
Color 50~60
Hue 0
Color Temperature Expert 1
Live Color Off (using it is incorrect but will give you a saturated candy image)

Clarity
Sharpness 50 (can be increased but be careful)
Reality Creation Off (can be used to your liking at lower values)

Motion
Motionflow Off

Video options
Auto on all

All your settings are right apart from the one you say is the most important HDR already uses an extended colour space on Auto. This Tv's X-Tended "Dynamic range" is going to manipulate the colours to be something its not meant to be.

 

[Rikkori]

All your settings are right apart from the one you say is the most important HDR already uses an extended colour space on Auto. This Tv's X-Tended "Dynamic range" is going to manipulate the colours to be something its not meant to be.

This is false. XDR has to do with local dimming brightness (and contrast) and not anything to do with colour space. Those options are in a different menu entirely. Without XDR on High the TV will not properly tone-map HDR and you'll see a dim & muted picture that's more SDR.

https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/articles/00131979

 

[JeloSWE]

All your settings are right apart from the one you say is the most important HDR already uses an extended colour space on Auto. This Tv's X-Tended "Dynamic range" is going to manipulate the colours to be something its not meant to be.

XDR only affects light out put in regards to peak nits and has nothing to do with the color space such as wide color gamut BT2020 or DCI P3.
Using it in SDR yields an is incorrect image but is there for you to simulate HDR by making highlight brighter if you want some extra punch.
In HDR the XDR is VITAL or you will NOT get the light out put that is needed for the proper HDR experience.
As for color space most HDR content uses the Rec/BT.2020 color space. It's a very wide one and no consumer displays can display it fully. However many movies uses DCI P3, which many displays can, and it's wider than the SDR Rec.709/sRGB but smaller than BT.2020.
The P3 colors are stored inside the BT.2020 space container when sent to the display. While this is pretty good, many HDR games still only output sRGB colors, albeit brighter ones but still not utilizing the P3 gamut at all.

 

[makaveli60]

Well it's really tough to say. I promise you it's not a base console thing. HDR isn't really a "power" thing. HDR isn't free from a processing standpoint but it is cheap.

In fact the one S bumped the clocks slightly to alleviate any issues if there were any specifically relates to HDR.

One thing that stands out to me is that you say you are seeing differences in games but it sounds like you aren't getting that "pop" you expect or see in the YouTube videos.

Doom Eternal is kind of the go to right now imo as it gives you a ton of options that pertain to HDR that other games simply don't give you.

If possible I would use that games HDR settings as a benchmark and use it at stock settings to see if you are getting that "pop" without having to tweak the settings in game, but tweak the settings on the tv.

I don't agree with the Infamous example. I found the HDR to be laacking except the neon stuff. But that's not the only benefit of HDR.

But trust me when I say I understand your frustration. Even with a high end OLED, I have found HDR to be annoying at times. Sometimes it's mind blowing and other times it feels like it's not even on. But it also one of those things that once you are looking at it for so long and then you go back you notice the more subtle things right away.

But I say that mainly to make a point that it took me tweaking a REALLY long time to get it where i felt like I was always getting a benefit. It might be a case where this will require tweaking to get it to where you want it to be.

But I also want to say that you will likely never reach "demo" quality and trying to compare everything to a demo is going to leave you disappointed. Demos are disingenuous on purpose.

Does your tv have separate picture settings between HDMI inputs as well as different settings for HDR vs SDR?

Well, I feel a bit better about my TV if you say that you have similar experiences even on a high end OLED. Doom Eternal doesn't really pop at base hdr settings but I can tweak it's hdr settings and then I can get a better picture than in sdr, but that game seems like an exception. GoW is also ok, but everything else was a disappointment. Especially Horizon, after hearing many times that it's the go to hdr game. And yes, the TV uses different settings for the inputs.

Hawking Radiation
Yep, all settings ok, just bought an hdmi 2.1b cable (that made no difference compared to my ps4's original cable) so that shouldn't be the problem either. I haven't even tried RDR yet, because I heard that it's hdr implementation is wrong. Maybe I will, just to see what it does.

Rikkori
Good idea, I have an account on Gamersyde. Well I tried comparing R&C with a Youtube video before I tweaked the Tv's settings and the youtube video was crazy washed out compared to mine, but that was with the factory settings, post process and everything. I suspected that something is wrong with that video btw. Will try this again. And I plan to buy Ghost of Tsushima today so I can compare that to Gamersyde's footage.

 

[Hostile_18]

Rikkori JeloSWE

Thanks for the info on XDR guys. The name misled me haha, my bad.

 

[Nikana]

Well, I feel a bit better about my TV if you say that you have similar experiences even on a high end OLED. Doom Eternal doesn't really pop at base hdr settings but I can tweak it's hdr settings and then I can get a better picture than in sdr, but that game seems like an exception. GoW is also ok, but everything else was a disappointment. Especially Horizon, after hearing many times that it's the go to hdr game. And yes, the TV uses different settings for the inputs.

Hawking Radiation
Yep, all settings ok, just bought an hdmi 2.1b cable (that made no difference compared to my ps4's original cable) so that shouldn't be the problem either. I haven't even tried RDR yet, because I heard that it's hdr implementation is wrong. Maybe I will, just to see what it does.

Rikkori
Good idea, I have an account on Gamersyde. Well I tried comparing R&C with a Youtube video before I tweaked the Tv's settings and the youtube video was crazy washed out compared to mine, but that was with the factory settings, post process and everything. I suspected that something is wrong with that video btw. Will try this again. And I plan to buy Ghost of Tsushima today so I can compare that to Gamersyde's footage.

I want to stress that HDR is NOT just about the "pop" that we both are describing. But it sounds like to me that's thats what you are looking for.

The color pop is actually inaccurate a lot of times which sounds like to me what you are describing when you say washed out.

In Doom Eternal, are you able to tweak settings like color get the image where you want without tweaking in game?

Do you have a photo of what settings can be tweaked when HDR is on?

 

[makaveli60]

I want to stress that HDR is NOT just about the "pop" that we both are describing. But it sounds like to me that's thats what you are looking for.

The color pop is actually inaccurate a lot of times which sounds like to me what you are describing when you say washed out.

In Doom Eternal, are you able to tweak settings like color get the image where you want without tweaking in game?

Do you have a photo of what settings can be tweaked when HDR is on?

The other important aspect of HDR is that the screen should illuminate differently the parts of the screen, right? Like in the case of a shiny landscape the sky should be much brighter than the land. Because besides the color pop I also get this with hdr videos.

I won't be home today, but I will photo the settings tomorrow and maybe also make a photo of the game and you can describe to me what I should see on the screen at that particular scene?

 

[Nikana]

The other important aspect of HDR is that the screen should illuminate differently the parts of the screen, right? Like in the case of a shiny landscape the sky should be much brighter than the land. Because besides the color pop I also get this with hdr videos.

I won't be home today, but I will photo the settings tomorrow and maybe also make a photo of the game and you can describe to me what I should see on the screen at that particular scene?

Yes and no. Illumination is part of it but its not usually a wide thing. Like your screen shouldn't be glowing when it's looking at the sky at all times. It's usually far more subtle things. Like the sky will be a bit brighter but the Sun will be the part that's glowing.

But most TVs will not able to illuminate an entire screen the same way it can the sun in the described image above.


The best way to describe the illumination differences is with a dark scene as it's easier to see the differences.

Picture A dark scene with a lamp or candle illuminating to show that it's clearly far more illuminated than the rest of the screen while also being able to still show the dark details of the image, such as shadows being cast from the light, that would normally be lost due to SDR lack of contrast.

The other is color accuracy. I have a feeling when you are looking at SDR and moving to HDR and say it's washed out, you are actually seeing what the image is "supposed" to look like. SDR content on modern TVs is usually processed to hell resulting in an image that is crazy inaccurate from range perspective. But, most people think it looks better because all the colors pop but what they don't realize is that they are losing a ton of detail (color detail not physical details) in this process.

HDR basically eliminates this as the range of color is far greater. Which means the washed out you are describing is likely actually more accurate but when you first look at it will appear very dull because you were just looking at an image that had all this color that seems to be be gone. But that's the first thing you are going to notice. But if you really study the image, and not just one frame but a lot of different locations, I am pretty confident you will notice a lot of details that are simply missing in SDR.

I am not saying this is 100 percent what's happening but you've tried all the other obvious things that will be actually wrong from a hardware perspective. So to me it seems like you are wanting an image that has more color saturation similar to SDR. Which is totally fine even if it is "inaccurate.*

I am somewhat the same way. I like more color Saturation and my HDR is tuned in a way a tv calibrator would call bad but it looks better to me and I like it.

But also again, not all HDR is created equal in movies and games. So some games no matter what you do will not look amazing in HDR.

Side note do you have any 4K Blu rays?

 

[makaveli60]

Yes and no. Illumination is part of it but its not usually a wide thing. Like your screen shouldn't be glowing when it's looking at the sky at all times. It's usually far more subtle things. Like the sky will be a bit brighter but the Sun will be the part that's glowing.

But most TVs will not able to illuminate an entire screen the same way it can the sun in the described image above.


The best way to describe the illumination differences is with a dark scene as it's easier to see the differences.

Picture A dark scene with a lamp or candle illuminating to show that it's clearly far more illuminated than the rest of the screen while also being able to still show the dark details of the image, such as shadows being cast from the light, that would normally be lost due to SDR lack of contrast.

The other is color accuracy. I have a feeling when you are looking at SDR and moving to HDR and say it's washed out, you are actually seeing what the image is "supposed" to look like. SDR content on modern TVs is usually processed to hell resulting in an image that is crazy inaccurate from range perspective. But, most people think it looks better because all the colors pop but what they don't realize is that they are losing a ton of detail (color detail not physical details) in this process.

HDR basically eliminates this as the range of color is far greater. Which means the washed out you are describing is likely actually more accurate but when you first look at it will appear very dull because you were just looking at an image that had all this color that seems to be be gone. But that's the first thing you are going to notice. But if you really study the image, and not just one frame but a lot of different locations, I am pretty confident you will notice a lot of details that are simply missing in SDR.

I am not saying this is 100 percent what's happening but you've tried all the other obvious things that will be actually wrong from a hardware perspective. So to me it seems like you are wanting an image that has more color saturation similar to SDR. Which is totally fine even if it is "inaccurate.*

I am somewhat the same way. I like more color Saturation and my HDR is tuned in a way a tv calibrator would call bad but it looks better to me and I like it.

But also again, not all HDR is created equal in movies and games. So some games no matter what you do will not look amazing in HDR.

Side note do you have any 4K Blu rays?

I don't have any. Are you suggesting I should try one to test if the Xbox is really sending hdr signal?

All of this hdr thing seems so strange because everywhere I just saw and heard the praising for it for games. Like it makes a bigger difference than 4k etc. And then all I have is that I have to check back and forth if I even see any difference. And this is after all the post processing turned off and setting the TV for accurate image based on on the suggestions of other posters in this thread. Like I heard Horizon is the game that is designed to impress with hdr. I think the difference should be obvious, but it's next to nothing.

 

[Nikana]

I don't have any. Are you suggesting I should try one to test if the Xbox is really sending hdr signal?

All of this hdr thing seems so strange because everywhere I just saw and heard the praising for it for games. Like it makes a bigger difference than 4k etc. And then all I have is that I have to check back and forth if I even see any difference. And this is after all the post processing turned off and setting the TV for accurate image based on on the suggestions of other posters in this thread. Like I heard Horizon is the game that is designed to impress with hdr. I think the difference should be obvious, but it's next to nothing.

No I was just curious if you had tried something other than games.

And I'll say that I would indeed take HDR over 4K. But it really is a subjective thing.

It's to the point now if I watch an SDR image or movie it's 100 percent noticeable to me where it's lacking detail and color. Something that 4K can't fix. Which is where that argument comes from I would presume.

But again I get where you are coming from. I was the same way when I first got my OLED. While I was crazy happy with the OLED picture I didn't get the HDR hype. It actually took me watching 4K Blu rays for awhile to really notice. I am guessing that's because my brain was more focused on the movie where it has to focus on controlling the game and not just looking at the image.

Once you get the image where you want it to be and get used to watching HDR content I think you'll come to appreciate it. Right now you seem kinda obsessed with it, which is fair after making a high dollar purchase you were hesitant to make in the first place, and you are actively looking to see where your money went and you just aren't seeing it.

Give it time and know it's gonna take tweaking. Also you might just have to accept that you were looking at an inaccurate SDR image and you have to recalibrate your brain to understand that was wrong.

 

[makaveli60]

No I was just curious if you had tried something other than games.

And I'll say that I would indeed take HDR over 4K. But it really is a subjective thing.

It's to the point now if I watch an SDR image or movie it's 100 percent noticeable to me where it's lacking detail and color. Something that 4K can't fix. Which is where that argument comes from I would presume.

But again I get where you are coming from. I was the same way when I first got my OLED. While I was crazy happy with the OLED picture I didn't get the HDR hype. It actually took me watching 4K Blu rays for awhile to really notice. I am guessing that's because my brain was more focused on the movie where it has to focus on controlling the game and not just looking at the image.

Once you get the image where you want it to be and get used to watching HDR content I think you'll come to appreciate it. Right now you seem kinda obsessed with it, which is fair after making a high dollar purchase you were hesitant to make in the first place, and you are actively looking to see where your money went and you just aren't seeing it.

Give it time and know it's gonna take tweaking. Also you might just have to accept that you were looking at an inaccurate SDR image and you have to recalibrate your brain to understand that was wrong.

Exactly. Though I can't say enough, I really appreciate your and everyone else's help in solving my problem. I will test some more during the weekend, GoT with the Gamersyde video etc. then I'll update. If I'm lucky I will also get a Pro to check that too.

 

[makaveli60]

So I spent quite some time for testing during the weekend. First of all, I compared my screen with the Gamersyde videos and some Youtube HDR videos of the games. In almost all cases the game on my screen looked better a bit (better colors). One instance when it was worse: in Tlou 2, the lights at the beginning snowfight were brighter in the video than on my screen. So here are the results on a per game basis from best to worst:
Doom Eternal - this is the only game where I found that HDR can make a real difference. Colors and lights pop after tweaking the ingame settings.
Final Fantasy XV - colors look noticeably better in HDR
TLoU 2 - a bit better colors with a bit better contrast, lights can get quite bright
Ghost of Tsushima - a bit better colors I think
Uncharted 4, Infamous Second Son, Horizon, Mortal Kombat 11, RDR2 - difference is next to nothing or worse (Infamous just darkens everything), Horizon is the biggest disappointment, since that is held as the go to game for HDR, so I'm perplexed about it. I was hesitant to include RDR2 because I only checked it out for a couple of minutes

To conclude I feel HDR gaming is a big disappointment now. It is terribly overhyped. "Game changer, more important than 4k, etc." This is not true currently. The only game that utilizes it in any meaningul way is Doom Eternal (not that surprising, id Software were always among the best), because you can really adjust the settings in that game. Going forward I hope developers will implement it that way for new games. I assume on better TVs there are better capabilities where there are bigger differences in HDR vs SDR gaming, but we already established that my TV is perfectly capable of decent HDR, so yeah, HDR gaming is a bit of a scam for now, I feel.

 

[Hostile_18]

So I spent quite some time for testing during the weekend. First of all, I compared my screen with the Gamersyde videos and some Youtube HDR videos of the games. In almost all cases the game on my screen looked better a bit (better colors). One instance when it was worse: in Tlou 2, the lights at the beginning snowfight were brighter in the video than on my screen. So here are the results on a per game basis from best to worst:
Doom Eternal - this is the only game where I found that HDR can make a real difference. Colors and lights pop after tweaking the ingame settings.
Final Fantasy XV - colors look noticeably better in HDR
TLoU 2 - a bit better colors with a bit better contrast, lights can get quite bright
Ghost of Tsushima - a bit better colors I think
Uncharted 4, Infamous Second Son, Horizon, Mortal Kombat 11, RDR2 - difference is next to nothing or worse (Infamous just darkens everything), Horizon is the biggest disappointment, since that is held as the go to game for HDR, so I'm perplexed about it. I was hesitant to include RDR2 because I only checked it out for a couple of minutes

To conclude I feel HDR gaming is a big disappointment now. It is terribly overhyped. "Game changer, more important than 4k, etc." This is not true currently. The only game that utilizes it in any meaningul way is Doom Eternal (not that surprising, id Software were always among the best), because you can really adjust the settings in that game. Going forward I hope developers will implement it that way for new games. I assume on better TVs there are better capabilities where there are bigger differences in HDR vs SDR gaming, but we already established that my TV is perfectly capable of decent HDR, so yeah, HDR gaming is a bit of a scam for now, I feel.

If your use to to your tv changing your SDR image HDR will look "wrong". The reason we have image standards is so the image can look the same on every screen to what the director/creator intended as by default every manufacturer changes the image its own way to be "more appealing" in a show room setting.

With HDR though generally speaking its easier to notice the difference going back to SDR than it is going forwards. If things like stars, the sun, light sources don't look miles better then something is wrong.