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TLOU2 Haters and Detractors are review-bombing Metacritic. The Salt rises!

Saruhashi

Banned
Problem with this is that we already know people are making multiple accounts to downvote, seeing as a good number are brand new accounts are there just to give the game a 0 and there are even signs of bots being used. So simple moderation isn't really viable. What they'll do is just delete all the0 scores for a few days then call it a day. The ultimate response would be for people to realise that user scores are utterly worthless and aren't worth putting any stock into.

That's not true though.

Browse some other games on metacritic for reference.

That Pokemon DLC has 71 critic score and 6.8 user score.

The recent Xenoblade remake is 89 from critics and 9.2 from users.

Those are just random checks.

Oftentimes users will downvote a game with performance issues far more harshly than reviewers who seem quite forgiving in that aspect.

So the user scores can be useful.

This "waaaah review bombing" thing only seems to come around when different agendas clash and suddenly the critics are seen as infallible commentators on gaming and the audience is just a bunch of bots and bigots.

Its so predictable.
 

Birdo

Banned
Oh come on, it wasnt even out for a day when the review bombing started, you cant fucking know if a game its overhyped without even plating it. FFS

Watched a full playthough on Twitch (Lots of people had it early).

Aside from the amazing visuals, I saw NOTHING that would land this game a 10/10. Outdated level design/mechanics, and bogstandard revenge plot.
 
Having worked in the industry for years, and knowing socially and professionally a great many people who also work in the biz, I'm pretty confident I know exactly in how high regard ND are held.

One of the reasons for that is the extreme level of technical and artistic achievement in their output. This is not a team that puts out broken, janky, ugly games, their work is of the highest quality. A fact attested to by the ridiculous number of accolades they receive from users and the media.

Not liking a game's story, or its political outlook is fine, BUT if you think that makes it ok to disregard every other quality it posesses, and condemn it to the sort of low score that is incredibly rare (0/10 are far less common than 10/10') you are an IDIOT.

Bottom line: By condoning a score that should rightly be limited to titles that are fundamentally broken, you basically are spitting in the face of a whole load of talented people who have worked insanely hard to create art, animation, music, code etc. that's of the highest standard.


That to me, is fucking unconscionable. You don't get to do that because you are butthurt over characters not being given the appropriate levels of fan-service, because you don't like the directors politics, because its on the wrong platform or whatever.

Its idiotic, and if you hold that view, or condone/support the same you are an idiot.

The idiocy lies firmly with those who have just woken up to the convenient self-serving self-aggrandizing misimpression that an universal objective scale not only exists but also happens to coincide with theirs.
 

Hobbygaming

has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
these sjws are losing. they know it. they are angry we are winning.

they get so mad.

meanwhile SJWS continue to insert the BULLSHIT AGENDAS in our media.
It has a 95 metacritic and is selling like breakfast sandwiches, the game is winning lol
The whole game's story, and even its controversial parts and ending, have been on youtube for awhile now. I don't think people to need guess about anything with the story since the whole story is available for all to see and judge. The game journalists who played it overhyped and overinflated the score. This game will not be remembered well by ordinary gamers, especially with the theme/direction/politics involved. The game itself has probably alienated half the gaming audience, so I don't see it being popular or fondly remembered 1 year from now.
I'm playing the game now and you're going to be disappointed that people will be talking about this game for years, decades even

Just like TLOU 1
 

Geki-D

Banned
Kidding aside, this is a mess and something should be done. I think there are solutions to keep under controll this kind of pathetic situations and general madness of these poor fools on the loose.
Honestly, I think that if they can't put a proof of purchase system in place, they may as well scrap user reviews because they're too easily abused. Issue is that would be impossible with stuff like movies in the cinema.

This "waaaah review bombing" thing only seems to come around when different agendas clash and suddenly the critics are seen as infallible commentators on gaming and the audience is just a bunch of bots and bigots.

Its so predictable.
I mean, I assume people generally aren't stupid.

-You look at a game with a user score of 7.5 and critic score of 9 and you think "Huh, wonder what people don't agree on" then you look at what the user reviews are about and say "Oh, so a lot of people really can't get over the shoddy FPS, good to know".

-You look at a game with a critic score of 9 and user score of 2 and you think, "Oh this seems like some bullshit", then you check the reviews and see thousands of zeros with one line or 2 lines of text in them and say "Oh, ok, it totally is bullshit" and you move the fuck on.

You have to go basis by basis. It's painfully obvious when a game is getting legitimate user scores and when it's getting review bombed.
 
There are some really good videos that break down why the game is getting review bombed but unfortunately its spoiler territory
i do agree that the actual graphics and gameplay are a fucking masterpiece and i was in awe at some parts....but story is just shit
 

Hobbygaming

has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Then explain me why the other Sony game's user score mostly match the metascore. Why? The Sony fanboys normally compensate for the Xbox fanboys. The extremely low score for TLOU2 is from pissed off people, disappointed fans and god knows by who else.
This couldn't be anymore wrong. Look at those other Sony games and the amount of user reviews they have

TLOU Part II has 24,000 reviews already in one day, full of trolls

What other Sony game had that many reviews in one day...
 

FALCON_KICK

Member
I think there is nothing to worry for The Last of Us 2 Fans because based on the pre-orders, it is projected to easily beat The Last of Us Remastered sales and even the sales record for God of war 2018 and possibly Marvel Spider-Man 2018.

 
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turtlepowa

Banned
This couldn't be anymore wrong. Look at those other Sony games and the amount of user reviews they have

TLOU Part II has 24,000 reviews already in one day, full of trolls

What other Sony game had that many reviews in one day...
Don`t you get it? Because lots of non gamers and gamers that usually don't rate are hating on it. It's in the media for months, because of the leaks and Druckman's attitude.
 
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I think there is nothing to worry for Last of us 2 Fans because based on the pre-orders, it is projected to easily beat Last of Us Remastered sales and even the sales record for God of war 2018 and possibly Marvel Spider-Man 2018.


I don't think anyone has predicted the game will undersell, but I could be wrong.

It's a blockbuster. It's going to be a top seller. It's going to land in most mainstream Best of lists, win countless GoTY awards, probably get a PS5 enhanced edition, all coming together to support very strong sales figures.

Like I said long ago, it's probably selling like hot croissants out of the oven and that performance is likely to continue until it fizzles out when next-gen AAA titles start releasing.
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
The idiocy lies firmly with those who have just woken up to the convenient self-serving self-aggrandizing misimpression that an universal objective scale not only exists but also happens to coincide with theirs.

Stop trying to shift focus onto 10/10 scores and away from the topic at hand: Review bombing.

I don't need to defend 10/10 scores to be cognizant of the fact that brigading exists and is in play here! There's ample evidence out there that there is a contingent of people on the internet with an axe to grind for a variety of reasons.

And just stop with the mealy-mouthed nonsense about "universal objective scales". These scores based on their timing and extremity are clearly being issued as some sort of punishment/protest by fuckwits.

This is not critique, its performative idiocy.

You know damn well you can't prove that these negative scores are all on the level, which is why you are desperately trying to make it a moratorium on 10/10's and scoring scales.

The only relevant point about scoring scales is that whether the criteria used to arrive at judgement are credible and fair, which as I've pointed out repeatedly is not the case when the reason for the 0/10 is solely because you don't like the story/characters/politics.

Idiocy. End of.
 
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Inxes

Member
Watched a full playthough on Twitch (Lots of people had it early).

Aside from the amazing visuals, I saw NOTHING that would land this game a 10/10. Outdated level design/mechanics, and bogstandard revenge plot.

Can you actually know about how it plays without playing it? Because if watching was enough David Cage's games would be 2-3 points better than they are lol.
 
Sorry but that is retarded.
Why do you have to be conservative to hate the game? That is retarded.
I dislike the game, not because I am conservative (I am not) or because I hate women (I do not).
I dislike the game because the story is shit. And this type of game is 100% story and nothing else.
The game story is shit that is why the game is shit,

I accept your apology. I’m talking about the review Bombing, not whether you like the game.

If you don’t like the game go nuts. Review it poorly as well.

but an orchestrated campaign like this is obviously politically motivated like many have been for movies and games in the past.

these have largely been due to conservative snowflakes complaining about women, but others have been left wing cancel culture edgelords as well.
Never said you were either.
 

NeoIkaruGAF

Gold Member
The poor idiots are just giving Druckmann more fuel. It's Ghostbusters 2016 all over again, with the difference that TLOU2 has a lot of care put into it and its defenders aren't just going to get silent shortly after release with only "Bigotry! Misogyny!" for a weak rebuttal.


Aristotle once said inserting your ideology into a story is a bad story. every writer who knows his shit has read Aristotle's Poetics. Druckmann said that was his main goal, he responded to a fan saying he uses his ideology as his focus for story ideas. This is really bad and any real writer who reads this would laugh at him in disgust.


...I'm curious, who exactly do you consider to be "the most successful writers"? Because if you honestly think books like To Kill a Mockingbird, The Help, 1984, Atlas Shrugged, All Quiet on the Western Front, Fahrenheit 451 & many others don't have any ideology behind them... Then I don't know what to tell you...
There's some irony in the fact that virtually all the people who are deeply into Druckmann's ideology have always laughed at Atlas Shrugged for how it exposes its ideology and how its characters are portrayed as "Thinks like Ayn Rand = good, thinks Ayn Rand's ideas are shit = bad". Old GAF and Era never pulled any punches, if you ever had to design the perfect anti-Era man Atlas Shrugged would be his favorite book.

There's politics and ideology in so many stories. The difference is that the best stories expose their basic ideology in a subtle, realistic, convincing way, they don't hit you in the face with their ideology throughout the whole thing. "Bigot sandwich" is so 2020 Twitter, it hurts.
 
Stop trying to shift focus onto 10/10 scores and away from the topic at hand: Review bombing.

I don't need to defend 10/10 scores to be cognizant of the fact that brigading exists and is in play here! There's ample evidence out there that there is a contingent of people on the internet with an axe to grind for a variety of reasons.

And just stop with the mealy-mouthed nonsense about "universal objective scales". These scores based on their timing and extremity are clearly being issued as some sort of punishment/protest by fuckwits.

This is not critique, its performative idiocy.

You know damn well you can't prove that these negative scores are all on the level, which is why you are desperately trying to make it a moratorium on 10/10's and scoring scales.

The only relevant point about scoring scales is that whether the criteria used to arrive at judgement are credible and fair, which as I've pointed out repeatedly is not the case when the reason for the 0/10 is solely because you don't like the story/characters/politics.

Idiocy. End of.

The idiocy lies firmly with those who have just woken up to the convenient self-serving self-aggrandizing misimpression that an universal objective scale not only exists but also happens to coincide with theirs.

It's not reasonable to make provisions and accommodate the thought that one end of the spectrum - a 10/10 - doesn't necessarily have to mean perfection and simultaneously not extend the same courtesy to the other end of the scale - a 0/0 - and recognize that it may not stand for dysfunctional garbage. If you award IGN the right to define a 10/10 as something other than flawlessness, then there's no good reason you would not make the very same allowances for 0/0s from lay reviewers.

Case in point, if I remember correctly, The Witcher 3 established an easy difficulty setting which their community manager, Marcin Momot, at the time described as meant for those who just wanted to enjoy the story. Here we had an industry professional recognizing that in some story-centric games, there's a small demographic interested in little else than the narrative. Now imagine being one of these players, imagine having played the previous instalment and having become enamoured with the story and characters. Now imagine them hating the new story and hating their beloved protagonists character arcs. How hard is it to imagine the resentment needed for them to award the game a 0/0? How hard is it to see through that 0/0?

I know, I know.
You assert you're an industry professional and you assert people who disagree with you are idiots.
You have a nice day.
 
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The poor idiots are just giving Druckmann more fuel. It's Ghostbusters 2016 all over again, with the difference that TLOU2 has a lot of care put into it and its defenders aren't just going to get silent shortly after release with only "Bigotry! Misogyny!" for a weak rebuttal.






There's some irony in the fact that virtually all the people who are deeply into Druckmann's ideology have always laughed at Atlas Shrugged for how it exposes its ideology and how its characters are portrayed as "Thinks like Ayn Rand = good, thinks Ayn Rand's ideas are shit = bad". Old GAF and Era never pulled any punches, if you ever had to design the perfect anti-Era man Atlas Shrugged would be his favorite book.

There's politics and ideology in so many stories. The difference is that the best stories expose their basic ideology in a subtle, realistic, convincing way, they don't hit you in the face with their ideology throughout the whole thing. "Bigot sandwich" is so 2020 Twitter, it hurts.

You're implying the bigot sandwiches line ties into the games main ideological underpinnings?
 

Geki-D

Banned
There's some irony in the fact that virtually all the people who are deeply into Druckmann's ideology have always laughed at Atlas Shrugged for how it exposes its ideology and how its characters are portrayed as "Thinks like Ayn Rand = good, thinks Ayn Rand's ideas are shit = bad". Old GAF and Era never pulled any punches, if you ever had to design the perfect anti-Era man Atlas Shrugged would be his favorite book.
Ok. Not really relevant to anything, but ok. Nice rant.

"Bigot sandwich" is so 2020 Twitter, it hurts.
Holy fuck. People really are butthurt about this one throw away line, huh. As if it's actually relevant to anything else in the game, especially it's actual plot. Atlas Shrugged is a book made nearly solely to push a whole ideology. TLOU2 is a video game where at one point Ellie calls a guy a bigot and doesn't want his sandwiches and there are some gay characters in it. Calm the fuck down, dude.
 
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ksdixon

Member
Lmao this was so fucking predictable. The game JUST came out several hours ago, and majority of people haven't played it let alone completed it. The people that had zero intentions of playing the game for themselves are ones review bombing it. These dorks are no better than the woke SJW ones, two extreme halves of the same coin.

It would be one thing to play the game and not enjoy it, that's perfectly valid, but these people don't really care about playing video games they just need another battlefield to wage their culture war on.

Why do people need enough time to play the game, as if there wasn't previous leaks, or early copy streamers speedrunning the game. Bad reviews are just as valid for the poor story telling as they are for Neil's agenda forcing. It's not one or the other, it's both. It's the lying in the marketing (bait and switching Joel's model, and placement in the trailer to make it seem like he lives longer than he does). It's having to play as abbey. It's that by the end of it all Ellie gains nothing because she miraculously decides to let abbey go.
 

HeresJohnny

Member
There are a lot of trusted you tubers I listen to who say it isn't good also. I'm sure most of those who are giving it zeroes probably haven't played the game (or finished it if they have) but I've heard enough feedback about this game to believe there are serious issues with it. I'll play it once there's a deep sale; until then I've got LoU Remastered to play through, which is a true masterpiece so I'm good.
 

down 2 orth

Member
I think there is nothing to worry for The Last of Us 2 Fans because based on the pre-orders, it is projected to easily beat The Last of Us Remastered sales and even the sales record for God of war 2018 and possibly Marvel Spider-Man 2018.


Thanks for sharing that article. You forgot to mention those numbers are only for Europe. And unfortunately the article doesn't give many details, such as if Sony pooled the pre-order numbers prior to the automatic refund in April together with the pre-orders after the refund. Or if they didn't subtract the number of cancellations from the total, say, after the massive story leaks. I'm not sure if Sony would spin numbers to promote a game, but this is food for thought.
 
Ok, let me tell you what's goin on, imo.

Never in this world this game deserve that score and so many 10's.

From start to finish has an lgbt agenda. So the reviewers from know sites gave great score to fear be attacked or called homophobics, racists and etc.

Game has no gameplay, just mash square and finish the dudes, walking and talking 70% of time and a disgusting sex scene (sony double standards).

Graphics are beautiful, and that's it. It's offensive a game (but NOT) like that on the side of best V-I-D-E-O-G-A-M-E-S of all time.

It's a bad joke.

Come at me.
 
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mortal

Gold Member
Why do people need enough time to play the game, as if there wasn't previous leaks, or early copy streamers speedrunning the game. Bad reviews are just as valid for the poor story telling as they are for Neil's agenda forcing. It's not one or the other, it's both. It's the lying in the marketing (bait and switching Joel's model, and placement in the trailer to make it seem like he lives longer than he does). It's having to play as abbey. It's that by the end of it all Ellie gains nothing because she miraculously decides to let abbey go.
I don't care if you give it a bad review or a good review. Giving a review or rating for a game you haven't actually played or hardly played is absolute nonsense. I'm surprised that even needs to be stated.

At the time of my initial post, the game wasn't even out for even half day before being inundated with negative user scores. A game with the average play time of 20+ hours.
You honestly believe most of those user scores by that time were from genuine impressions of people that played the game for themselves?

I don't care about what you personally think of the game and its story. You're free to think whatever you want, as these things are mostly subjective.
 

Redlancet

Banned
Having worked in the industry for years, and knowing socially and professionally a great many people who also work in the biz, I'm pretty confident I know exactly in how high regard ND are held.

One of the reasons for that is the extreme level of technical and artistic achievement in their output. This is not a team that puts out broken, janky, ugly games, their work is of the highest quality. A fact attested to by the ridiculous number of accolades they receive from users and the media.

Not liking a game's story, or its political outlook is fine, BUT if you think that makes it ok to disregard every other quality it posesses, and condemn it to the sort of low score that is incredibly rare (0/10 are far less common than 10/10') you are an IDIOT.

Bottom line: By condoning a score that should rightly be limited to titles that are fundamentally broken, you basically are spitting in the face of a whole load of talented people who have worked insanely hard to create art, animation, music, code etc. that's of the highest standard.


That to me, is fucking unconscionable. You don't get to do that because you are butthurt over characters not being given the appropriate levels of fan-service, because you don't like the directors politics, because its on the wrong platform or whatever.

Its idiotic, and if you hold that view, or condone/support the same you are an idiot.
Thats what i call a excellent post
 

Geki-D

Banned
Giving a review or rating for a game you haven't actually played or hardly played is absolute nonsense. I'm surprised that even needs to be stated.
The sad thing is that if this was any other game there would be no argument over this. People are just happy it's happening to TLOU2 because "SJW AGENDA!!". At this point arguing with people who try to pretend the review bombing is actually legitimate reviews is just pointless. They're being blatantly dishonest. You know it, I know it, they know it. These people are NPCs, you can't reason with them, they'll just keep saying the same lines over and over.
 

Redlancet

Banned
Ok, let me tell you what's goin on, imo.

Never in this world this game deserve that score and so many 10's.

From start to finish has an lgbt agenda. So the reviewers from know sites gave great score to fear be attacked or called homophobics, racists and etc.

Game has no gameplay, just mash square and finish the dudes, walking and talking 70% of time and a disgusting sex scene (sony double standards).

Graphics are beautiful, and that's it. It's offensive a game (but NOT) like that on the side of best V-I-D-E-O-G-A-M-E-S of all time.

It's a bad joke.

Come at me.

Nobody is coming at you dude, people dont care about hot take like yours,dont be tense you will still get Your amimu games
 

Self

Member
In what way does any of that address the claim that a 10/10 is by definition a reasonable extreme and a 0/0 somehow is not?

Not by definition, but by history, by track record. It is a anomalie, it is suspicious.

A honest person would like to find out where the rub is. It's easily discernable.

Nobody would be surprised by a mainline Mario or Witcher game scoring 10/10, but most certainly by scoring 0/10.

If you like to dismiss the whole history and track record of well established studios who have proofen their talent and skills over and over again, well, so be it. I call it out for what it is: a dishonest approach.

Boy, I miss the times where we could not agree with some aspects of a game, but still enjoy it and play the heck out of it.
 
...I'm curious, who exactly do you consider to be "the most successful writers"? Because if you honestly think books like To Kill a Mockingbird, The Help, 1984, Atlas Shrugged, All Quiet on the Western Front, Fahrenheit 451 & many others don't have any ideology behind them... Then I don't know what to tell you...

all those examples tell a way better story then tlou2, I'd hope you agree on that.....And that's the main ingredient, story, plot, conflict, it all has to take center stage so that the person watching learns through the action of the character.

In TLOU2 it's in your face, it's not subversive, they don't hide it, for example the dialogue , they all sound like they are going through a midlife crisis in the middle of an apocalypse, it's up front and in your face and in no way represents what people would be experiencing in that world.
 

Vognerful

Member
those are cherry picked its unlikely to be just xbox trolls as they would be overwhelmed by the positive reviews considering just how much larger the ps fanbase is. in fact all exclusives have some fanboy review bias but its never to the extent that it would drop the average by such a huge degree.
Bro let him dream if it will make him sleep better at night.
 

Serge85

Member
Ok, let me tell you what's goin on, imo.

Never in this world this game deserve that score and so many 10's.

From start to finish has an lgbt agenda. So the reviewers from know sites gave great score to fear be attacked or called homophobics, racists and etc.

Game has no gameplay, just mash square and finish the dudes, walking and talking 70% of time and a disgusting sex scene (sony double standards).

Graphics are beautiful, and that's it. It's offensive a game (but NOT) like that on the side of best V-I-D-E-O-G-A-M-E-S of all time.

It's a bad joke.

Come at me.

Thats what I call an excellent post
 
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RedVIper

Banned
People were upset about the leaked footage because the character was a trans\woman and said it was to push identity politics. They were also accusing ND of trying to get rid of white characters in the game.


You really ignored all those ma'am memes people were sharing online? lol. Yes, people did have an issue with a character being trans (even though that was a fake rumor).

Most streamers dislike this game.

Unless they're all alt right trolls too idk what to tell you. Maybe the story just sucks.
 

Guilty_AI

Member
Not by definition, but by history, by track record. It is a anomalie, it is suspicious.

A honest person would like to find out where the rub is. It's easily discernable.

Nobody would be surprised by a mainline Mario or Witcher game scoring 10/10, but most certainly by scoring 0/10.

If you like to dismiss the whole history and track record of well established studios who have proofen their talent and skills over and over again, well, so be it. I call it out for what it is: a dishonest approach.

Boy, I miss the times where we could not agree with some aspects of a game, but still enjoy it and play the heck out of it.
How about seeing it like this: people are giving it 0/10 precisely because they think all this 10/10 being given out freely are completely undeserved?
Its not that they think the game is a 0/10, its that they feel critics giving it a 10/10 were fishy so they countered with a 0/10.
 
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Geki-D

Banned
all those examples tell a way better story then tlou2, I'd hope you agree on that.....And that's the main ingredient, story, plot, conflict, it all has to take center stage so that the person watching learns through the action of the character.

In TLOU2 it's in your face, it's not subversive, they don't hide it, for example the dialogue , they all sound like they are going through a midlife crisis in the middle of an apocalypse, it's up front and in your face and in no way represents what people would be experiencing in that world.
And all of those books actually have a main goal of using their stories to push an idea (which you said was bad originally, I guess you're dropping that now). TLOU2 doesn't. It's a game about revenge that tries some maybe unconventional story elements, oh and at one point Ellie calls a guy a bigot and doesn't want his sandwiches. The mere fact there are openly gay characters in it isn't an agenda, I'm really sorry that for some people showing gay people exist and actually have a physical relationship is apparently this massive ideological push but it really isn't any more than a straight couple on a shitty soap opera shown french kissing is "the straight agenda" being pushed.

I don't even understand what you're trying to argue right now. Your original point was that media should apparently never try to have an ideology behind it, something that's shown to be very easily stupid seeing as most of the greatest works ever created have an ideological message behind them. So now you're trying to shift the argument to... TLOU2 isn't as well written as To Kill a Mockingbird or All Quiet on The Western Front...? Yeah, no shit, the game isn't a well written as some of the best, most revered works of fiction written by man.
 

RedVIper

Banned
Stop trying to shift focus onto 10/10 scores and away from the topic at hand: Review bombing.

I don't need to defend 10/10 scores to be cognizant of the fact that brigading exists and is in play here! There's ample evidence out there that there is a contingent of people on the internet with an axe to grind for a variety of reasons.

And just stop with the mealy-mouthed nonsense about "universal objective scales". These scores based on their timing and extremity are clearly being issued as some sort of punishment/protest by fuckwits.

This is not critique, its performative idiocy.

You know damn well you can't prove that these negative scores are all on the level, which is why you are desperately trying to make it a moratorium on 10/10's and scoring scales.

The only relevant point about scoring scales is that whether the criteria used to arrive at judgement are credible and fair, which as I've pointed out repeatedly is not the case when the reason for the 0/10 is solely because you don't like the story/characters/politics.

Idiocy. End of.

If negative review bombing is an issue, so it's positive review bombing.

The people giving the game a 0 because it has gay people in it are just as moronic as the ones giving it a 10 because it has gay people in it.

You can't have it both ways.
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
Now imagine them hating the new story and hating their beloved characters arcs. How hard is it to imagine the resentment needed for them to award the game a 0/0? How hard is it to see through that 0/0?

The fact that these scores exist is not in doubt. The only question is why do they exist, and how justified (or not) the motivations behind them are.

What you described doesn't justify it. Its tantrum throwing,

I know, I know.
You assert you're an industry professional and you assert people who disagree with you are idiots.
You have a nice day.

You demanded substantiation so I laid out where I'm coming from as a means to drive home the point about how well regarded ND product is, and why its so unthinkable for them to produce something legitimately deserving of such a punitive score.

As to pointing out idiots and idiocy... It is what it is. I'm not going to struggle to find verbiage soft enough to spare your tender feelings when you're happily handwaving off trashing talented people's hard work and attempting to hurt them professionally for such feeble and specious reasons.

Because let's face it, that's what this is actually all about. Review bombing is an attempt to damage the target.

Its spiteful and vindictive.

Which is a big reason why these sort of ultra-low score barrages are far more concerning than undeserving 10/10's. A reviewer or an outlet overrates something and it hurts their credibility going forward, its somewhat self-regulating which you cannot say for user scores which tend to be "fire and forget" deals that ultimately only affect a meta-average.

You tolerate this shit and basically you give the greenlight to people to fuck with games/movies/stuff for whatever trivial reason they choose. Not a good thing when the internet is so reactionary, it enables and encourages bad actors.

So no, not everyone who disagrees with me is an idiot. But there is no shortage of idiots are out there, and if you don't wan't to be counted among them take onboard what I've said.

I am not the unreasonable one here.
 
And all of those books actually have a main goal of using their stories to push an idea (which you said was bad originally, I guess you're dropping that now). TLOU2 doesn't. It's a game about revenge that tries some maybe unconventional story elements, oh and at one point Ellie calls a guy a bigot and doesn't want his sandwiches. The mere fact there are openly gay characters in it isn't an agenda, I'm really sorry that for some people showing gay people exist and actually have a physical relationship is apparently this massive ideological push but it really isn't any more than a straight couple on a shitty soap opera shown french kissing is "the straight agenda" being pushed.

I don't even understand what you're trying to argue right now. Your original point was that media should apparently never try to have an ideology behind it, something that's shown to be very easily stupid seeing as most of the greatest works ever created have an ideological message behind them. So now you're trying to shift the argument to... TLOU2 isn't as well written as To Kill a Mockingbird or All Quiet on The Western Front...? Yeah, no shit, the game isn't a well written as some of the best, most revered works of fiction written by man.

you do understand, you just want to be right and win some random argument online. Everything I wrote I've learned through reading, writing, and studying. anyone can dismantle someone's argument, I'm just saying my piece.
 
TLOU2 is making this fanbase extremely emotional. Reddit, here, youtube everyone is trying to argue their points on why it's the best, why it's the worst, let me tell you this community is a shadow of what it once was. It feels a little recetera in here tbh.
 

MiguelItUp

Member
Real question, where/what is the "LGBT agenda"?

From what I've seen, I see a game that contains a gay protagonist, bi characters (?), and a trans side character. I haven't played the entire game, but I've watched about 85% of it. Aside from Druckmann having SJW takes and ideals, the game just seems to have a lesser than stellar script and story. That's really it. I haven't seen anything praising gays or any other preference/lifestyle over any other preference. I'm definitely one that's against radical left and right methods of thinking, especially when it's in the form of a hobby or entertainment I enjoy. ESPECIALLY when it's being forced down your throat. But here I just see an incredibly below average writer/director that may be trying a bit too hard. Which is sadder more than anything because the potential the game had was a lot higher IMO. Definitely some The Last Jedi calls in the writing/direction IMO.

Is there stuff in the writing that's really pushing it that I missed? Or stuff that is written in such a way that it is offending other people that don't agree with some of the games topics and content? Some of the stuff I've seen may equate a, "Alllllright" kind of reaction, but nothing that's like "WTF?!"

Genuine question I ask because there have been shows, films, and other stories with gay/bi/trans characters and I don't recall anyone ever saying there was an agenda of some form that impacted their opinion a great deal. They judged it by everything else, so, why isn't that being done here? I feel like majority of the posts mention it pushing a "LGBT/SJW agenda" before mentioning the writing and dialogue just taking a potential backseat from the first game.

Again, honest question. Not asking to get dog piled or anything, just genuinely curious.

TLOU2 is making this fanbase extremely emotional. Reddit, here, youtube everyone is trying to argue their points on why it's the best, why it's the worst, let me tell you this community is a shadow of what it once was. It feels a little recetera in here tbh.
I feel this is a bit over dramatic. We're nowhere near that at all.
 

Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
Real question, where/what is the "LGBT agenda"?

From what I've seen, I see a game that contains a gay protagonist, bi characters (?), and a trans side character. I haven't played the entire game, but I've watched about 85% of it. Aside from Druckmann having SJW takes and ideals, the game just seems to have a lesser than stellar script and story. That's really it. I haven't seen anything praising gays or any other preference/lifestyle over any other preference. I'm definitely one that's against radical left and right methods of thinking, especially when it's in the form of a hobby or entertainment I enjoy. ESPECIALLY when it's being forced down your throat. But here I just see an incredibly below average writer/director that may be trying a bit too hard. Which is sadder more than anything because the potential the game had was a lot higher IMO. Definitely some The Last Jedi calls in the writing/direction IMO.

Is there stuff in the writing that's really pushing it that I missed? Or stuff that is written in such a way that it is offending other people that don't agree with some of the games topics and content? Some of the stuff I've seen may equate a, "Alllllright" kind of reaction, but nothing that's like "WTF?!"

Genuine question I ask because there have been shows, films, and other stories with gay/bi/trans characters and I don't recall anyone ever saying there was an agenda of some form that impacted their opinion a great deal. They judged it by everything else, so, why isn't that being done here? I feel like majority of the posts mention it pushing a "LGBT/SJW agenda" before mentioning the writing and dialogue just taking a potential backseat from the first game.

Again, honest question. Not asking to get dog piled or anything, just genuinely curious.


I feel this is a bit over dramatic. We're nowhere near that at all.

Im sort of with you but in only about 10 hours into the game. What I will say is that there seems to be this push to force the story with dina in general. It really hasn't added anything of value for me. It's not shoving it down my throat but it seems like there was a story there that somebody forced in.
 
Please remember to ignore the thousands of 5-star reviews posted before launch. Those are inconvenient and to be disregarded, as per instructions of the Anti-anti-woke D. Quixote. Please only focus on one side of the argument and remember to selectively avert your gaze when looking at data.

There is a thesis - which could very well be true - the game is being review bombed. But remember you should ignore any clues that the vote brigading is simultaneously happening in the opposite direction. By definition that doesn't matter. Two very far very extreme very alt-right Youtubers have been identified by reliable anti-hate think tanks as the instigators and it's been decided to close in on them. It's self-evidently true no sane person would ever award the game a 10/10 if they hadn't played it. Come on. That's just a fact. I'm telling you so and that is more than enough.

Also remember to lump people calling out this duplicity with people who didn't play the game but reviewed it nonetheless. It's important you indiscriminately malign your adversaries.

These tactics will allow the anti-anti-woke D. Quixote to claim, quote, "They're being blatantly dishonest. You know it, I know it, they know it." Just take his word for it, ok? Evidently, he can read minds. He has dispensed himself from the need to present evidence. His assertions are more than enough and you should all raise your hands to the sky in sheer blissful gratitude.

The anti-anti-woke D. Quixote says so.
Therefore it is true.
 

Guilty_AI

Member
Real question, where/what is the "LGBT agenda"?

From what I've seen, I see a game that contains a gay protagonist, bi characters (?), and a trans side character. I haven't played the entire game, but I've watched about 85% of it. Aside from Druckmann having SJW takes and ideals, the game just seems to have a lesser than stellar script and story. That's really it. I haven't seen anything praising gays or any other preference/lifestyle over any other preference. I'm definitely one that's against radical left and right methods of thinking, especially when it's in the form of a hobby or entertainment I enjoy. ESPECIALLY when it's being forced down your throat. But here I just see an incredibly below average writer/director that may be trying a bit too hard. Which is sadder more than anything because the potential the game had was a lot higher IMO. Definitely some The Last Jedi calls in the writing/direction IMO.

Is there stuff in the writing that's really pushing it that I missed? Or stuff that is written in such a way that it is offending other people that don't agree with some of the games topics and content? Some of the stuff I've seen may equate a, "Alllllright" kind of reaction, but nothing that's like "WTF?!"

Genuine question I ask because there have been shows, films, and other stories with gay/bi/trans characters and I don't recall anyone ever saying there was an agenda of some form that impacted their opinion a great deal. They judged it by everything else, so, why isn't that being done here? I feel like majority of the posts mention it pushing a "LGBT/SJW agenda" before mentioning the writing and dialogue just taking a potential backseat from the first game.

Again, honest question. Not asking to get dog piled or anything, just genuinely curious.


I feel this is a bit over dramatic. We're nowhere near that at all.
I think the agenda thing is mainly because of what Druckmann himself says and how he acts. He's very outspoken about stuff like basing his work on what anita sarkeesian says or sjw social media stuff, players just put two and two together and start finding that stuff in his game.
 

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
Most streamers dislike this game.

Unless they're all alt right trolls too idk what to tell you. Maybe the story just sucks.

This is like the 4th time you're replying to me and you fail to understand the point of my post. This is getting ridiculous.
 

Vognerful

Member
How about seeing it like this: people are giving it 0/10 precisely because they think all this 10/10 being given out freely are completely undeserved?
Its not that they think the game is a 0/10, its that they feel critics giving it a 10/10 were fishy so they countered with a 0/10.
I think this is a very reasonable take. If these 0/10 people looked at the game without comparing to all the 10s it got from critics reviewers, they would have probably gave it like 7. But they feel so pissed that they are really overreacting.
 
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