synchronicity
Member
Even it the premise of the OP were true, I'd still choose PC for the bulk of my gaming because of all its other benefits.
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How long will mechanical disks on PC be a bottleneck now consoles have SSD as standard?
Virex
Banned
ftfy
Of course and long after. Funniest thing is that people really think Microsoft won't transfer their changes from Velocity Architecture to PC. DX12 and OpenGL won't adapt to the new situation and Xbox, PC and the whole world are doomed because Sony reinvented the Wheel. Sorry for beeing salty but the quantity of half-backed knowledge from social media heroes and the console wars are getting unbearable.
Microsoft and especially Sony put great effort to eliminate one of the biggest bottle necks in gaming. Primarily developers will benefit from this, as they no longer have to use all kinds of tricks to get around this bottlenecks. On the other side you have to be really naive if you thing Developers need to consider hard drives as the weakest common denominator. They don't, Star Citizen simply requires a SSD and over 95% of players are using SSD.
Game requirements will simply change and HDDs are going to die for future projects. At the time games will move completely to SSD or even NVMe there will be many more developments in both hardware and software. I won't expect this change before end 2021, and that's the reason why Microsoft keeps supporting Xbox One into the next gear. Sony may release some title earlier to demonstrate capabilities of SSD as they are into a closed environment with PS5. Engines which are focused on high performance SSDs are still far away from completion and even further away from use in new projects.
Self
Member
Yes, I can see that.
Nevertheless there are people changing platforms at certain generations like myself after the 4th generation . I think it's is a valid question.
It think that is way to soon, but yes - would be cool.
EverydayBeast
thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
Consoles are PC-esque.
vaibhavpisal
Member
My guess is pc will have 32gb and normal SSD as min requirements.
32 gb cause consoles have 16. Pc cards will also ship with 8gb vram min for next gen.
That's a whole lot of ram and will negate any SSD bottleneck they may have.
It will get expensive though. My guess is even master race lord's will be crying. Lol.
32 gb cause consoles have 16. Pc cards will also ship with 8gb vram min for next gen.
That's a whole lot of ram and will negate any SSD bottleneck they may have.
It will get expensive though. My guess is even master race lord's will be crying. Lol.
Oddvintagechap
Member
Nothing better than making PC gamers throw a fit.
How long will it be till PC gamers are required you use a SSD?
How long till PC Games are designed specifically for 5GB SSDs?
In the end every multiplatform game will probably be worse on PS5 because of Xbox's and PC’s slow drives.
Every AAA firstparty game wont be touchable by PC or Xbox. Hell you got the Switch and PS4 killing it in the games department.
How long will it be till PC gamers are required you use a SSD?
How long till PC Games are designed specifically for 5GB SSDs?
In the end every multiplatform game will probably be worse on PS5 because of Xbox's and PC’s slow drives.
Every AAA firstparty game wont be touchable by PC or Xbox. Hell you got the Switch and PS4 killing it in the games department.
VFXVeteran
Banned
The OP is illogical. Why would you even have to think such a thing?
Well, they have the specifications and they know on what they can rely. On the other side they are observing the changes and advancements on PC market. So if they started they projects end 2019 I expect the first AA and some maybe some Microsoft AAA titles to take advantage of SSD architecture end 2021. Additionally there is DDR5 with double RAM speed around the corner. Personally I don't think that the advantage of the fast NVMe in PS5 will show up in the next years. Space requirements for the high detailed objects are massive even when you don't double information for HDDs. Funny part is that space seems to be the new bottle neck which isn't if you stick with HDD prices. However, technology evolves and NVMe space will become cheaper.
Gamerguy84
Member
PC related. Is anyone still using mechanical HDD in your comp?
I have them in all but one, they are just used for backing stuff up though and keeping a healthy windows recovery partition.
I have regular SSD in all laptops and then NVMe in two desktops.
I just cant go back to HDD.
I have them in all but one, they are just used for backing stuff up though and keeping a healthy windows recovery partition.
I have regular SSD in all laptops and then NVMe in two desktops.
I just cant go back to HDD.
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Self
Member
Mithos
Member
I did up until I bough my new computer in January 2020.
So mechanical HDD until that recently.
The Bloody-Nine
Member
I have a 1TB Samsung 970 Evo Plus NVME for my OS and certain games. Then I have 5TB of HDD for movies, music, less important games, etc.
The 'etc' means porn, by the way.
GreenAlien
Member
SSD is already standard for PC gamers.
People who don't have one yet have not updated their pc in 10+ years.. They can't even play current gen games properly.
..and since when do old PC components limit games? Once a great game comes along that needs better hardware, gamers will upgrade. Was it ever the other way around?
People who don't have one yet have not updated their pc in 10+ years.. They can't even play current gen games properly.
..and since when do old PC components limit games? Once a great game comes along that needs better hardware, gamers will upgrade. Was it ever the other way around?
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Self
Member
There is risk of losing potential buyers in that approach.
diffusionx
Gold Member
Why do console fanboys act like everyone with a PC Is using a 5400rpm hard drive from 2002?
SSDs have been *common* in PCs for a decade now. Nowadays even the cheapest garbage laptops you can get at Best Buy have SSDs built in. For a long time, gamers bought small SSDs as a boot drive and put their games on big hard drives, but even that has started to go away as the cost of SSDs have plummeted. I haven’t had a mechanical drive in a computer for probably five years at this point, and I’m not alone.
SSDs have been *common* in PCs for a decade now. Nowadays even the cheapest garbage laptops you can get at Best Buy have SSDs built in. For a long time, gamers bought small SSDs as a boot drive and put their games on big hard drives, but even that has started to go away as the cost of SSDs have plummeted. I haven’t had a mechanical drive in a computer for probably five years at this point, and I’m not alone.
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kraspkibble
Permabanned.
anyone who can't afford an SSD in their PC doesn't deserve to be gaming on PC.
i hope developers just straight up cut off support for HDD so that absolute minimum requirements are nvme SSD drives with 2GB/s or above which would also kill off the pathetic SATA3 SSD drives which only have like 500-600MB/s.
i hope developers just straight up cut off support for HDD so that absolute minimum requirements are nvme SSD drives with 2GB/s or above which would also kill off the pathetic SATA3 SSD drives which only have like 500-600MB/s.
yeah but it needs to be done. the sooner HDD dies (at least for gaming) the better.
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Honey Bunny
Member
Never thought of it like this, consoles really will be held back by PC....
PCbros, we got too cocky
PCbros, we got too cocky
KyoZz
Tag, you're it.
BlitzerRadic
Member
The premise is probably going to be true. IMO AAA games are where you see advances in gaming. The vast majority of AAA games have been designed for consoles as the target since that is where they sell best. Next gen consoles will have SSDs. If a multiplatform next gen AAA game on PC allows it to run on a HDD, then PC is now the lowest common denominator.
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MasterCornholio
Member
If the game is designed around Sonys SSD I don't see it running well on devices with HDD.
This is where the speculation that Sony won't design their games around their I/O solution so they can run on PCs. I disagree with that theory because Sony put alot of time and effort into their SSD system and I don't they are going to screw it over just so they can support PC.
That's my theory.
kraspkibble
Permabanned.
PC will take over these consoles in no time. if anything needs to be changed in the architecture then that'll be done but otherwise in terms of raw specs PC will make these consoles look outdated really soon.
PCIE 5.0 is coming soon and we'll get SSDs of speeds up to 14GB/s. we're getting faster ram soon in DDR5 with speeds up to ~8000. 12TF will be budget/mid range soon too.
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The Bloody-Nine
Member
My SSD cost as much as you'd pay for a PS4 these days.
kraspkibble
Permabanned.
my 2TB NVME drive cost me £380.
that's about the price of an Xbox One X.
PC will always have the bleeding edge technology. these consoles might sound impressive now (still haven't even released yet LOL) but they need to last 6-7 years. they'll be outdated in a year or two.
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The Bloody-Nine
Member
Mine was £215, I think, around 6 months ago.
hououinkyouma00
Member
I'm going to take this post a different way then the majority of people here will as they will take it as shitposting. I don't find this post disingenuous, why? There are thousands of combinations of hardware in the PC gaming space. One guy might have a i5 2500k and a GTX 650, while another may have a 3900X and a RTX 2080ti, while even another has a Ryzen 2200G with Vega 8. So on and so on. There will always be low end, and always a high end. That is one of the great things about PC gaming, it's flexible. Now while developers have to take lets say the weak hardware of a base Xbox One, they do also have to take low end and outdated PC hardware in mind. Now that's not a bad thing (scalability is great and obviously ideal), but it's not just consoles holding back PC gaming and game performance.
100% correct.
The problem for a lot of people is at what cost? How much does it cost to build a PC that will match the same specs once Series X and PS5 come out? These questions are important for people. Now I hate the teraflops argument with a passion because it doesn't mean much but it's an easy comparison. I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) but a 2080 Super is 11Tf, and Series X is what? 12.something? That is incredible value at even $600, and even more so when you consider the optimization that (while mainly with 1st party games) comes from console development. The Coalition did some crazy stuff with Gears 5/Forza Horizon 4, and studios like Naughty Dog and Santa Monica work pure magic even on base consoles.
Now the PC space does chase different metrics then the hardware manufacturers. I believe something like 75-80% of steam users are on a 1080p display, and like 15% on 1440p. PC also chases high frame rates, and has an emphasis on esports games as well like League/Overwatch/Valorant/CSGO which all run on even modern budget builds at a good frame rate and settings. Hell, my MacBook Air can run League.
Again, some of the problem is price which will of course come down. I remember when SSDs even small SSDs were super expensive, and now I can grab a 120GB boot drive for like $20, and a 1TB NVMe drive for $130 every single day at Microcenter. The cheapest 1TB PCIe4 SSD I could find (quick search) was $195. Luckily that will come down sooner or later.
I do think it's disingenuous to downplay the SSD in the new consoles without anybody actually seeing the improvements it may make. There is always PR, and I agree that it's important to temper expectations. I believe even Linus mentions it in his apology video he did, but software makes a big difference. When the entire system is designed around it, it makes a difference. When the OS for PS5/SX is built around taking advantage of that SSD it will make a difference that you may not see on the PC end.
Everything at this point is conjecture. Nobody outside of the people working on them know what the result actually is. Both taking everything as gospel, and immediately discounting it is absolutely stupid.
Psykodad
Banned
Agreed.
I can see them making exceptions for certain multiplayer-focused games though, as they have already stated that they want to support PC for those as well.
But as far as their major AAA-titles, I don't see them ignoring the entire design of PS5.
MasterCornholio
Member
Once we get to the point where high speed SSDs are standard in PCs I can see that happening but not before then.
Which is also why some PS5 exclusives might arrive years later to PC.
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
I've been wondering/worried about not only mechanical drives but the SATA SSDs I have in my PC right now. I am going to be upgrading to an x570 board with two PCIe 4.0 slots so when a PS5 equivalent SSD hits the market I plan on upgrading, but until then I hope these SATA SSDs should be enough for anything I throw at them, right?
LostDonkey
Member
Besides the SSD talk the consoles have always had faster RAM haven't they?
Didn't PS3 have like 3.2ghz ram. Didn't change anything then when Pcs were running 1600mhz ram and still doing things faster.
PS4 had GDDR5 ram for system ram but it's still horribly slower than a rig that runs 3000mhz ddr4 ram.
Didn't PS3 have like 3.2ghz ram. Didn't change anything then when Pcs were running 1600mhz ram and still doing things faster.
PS4 had GDDR5 ram for system ram but it's still horribly slower than a rig that runs 3000mhz ddr4 ram.
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Aidah
Member
it's possible that by the time the few 3rd party devs that do try to push the technical boundries truly utilize the SSDs in these consoles, PC would have already caught up or even exceeded even in this department and delivers the superior results, probably through being much more efficient than now combined with brute force.
As for just SSD and not necessarily superfast SSD, easy: Minimum Requirement: Storage: SSD. It's not as if every game on PC targets or accommodates even the shitiest of hardware. Even Epic tells you that you can get good results in its UE5 demo on PC with what's currently available on the platform.
As for abandoning PC because consoles have SSDs as standard, that's funny. Personally, I don't even remember the last time I ran a game off of a HDD, literally years. I've had SSDs in my gaming PCs since 2011.
As for just SSD and not necessarily superfast SSD, easy: Minimum Requirement: Storage: SSD. It's not as if every game on PC targets or accommodates even the shitiest of hardware. Even Epic tells you that you can get good results in its UE5 demo on PC with what's currently available on the platform.
As for abandoning PC because consoles have SSDs as standard, that's funny. Personally, I don't even remember the last time I ran a game off of a HDD, literally years. I've had SSDs in my gaming PCs since 2011.
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Md Ray
Member
I am. The majority of AAA games are installed in my 2TB HDD. Only a handful of games with long loading times (like RDR2) are in the SSD, which is also SATA-based.
LostDonkey
Member
Yep. I have a 850 evo 500gb as my boot drive and 2x 4tb 5400 HDDs for games and media etc.
Md Ray
Member
This has been debunked already. Sweeney confirmed it was just a video of the demo running on a laptop.
phil_t98
#SonyToo
They do it already though with graphics cards. Not like it’s a huge spend on a SSD
Blond
Banned
It was also proven that sweeny didn't know WTF he was talking about. Enough Chinese speakers proved him wrong already on the original video, he can damage control if he wants but until I see something where this SSD helps produce something that looks good and is actually playable I'm remaining skeptical.
Gamerguy84
Member
Lol whole different experience isnt it.
I also have a 1TB. I also keep "media" on the HDD of one of those. My NV drive has everything else like games. OS, etc. Its about half full.
My SSD on my personal laptop keeps a windows partition and a linux partition.
INC
Member
before you shoot the messenger, this is the media i suspect the OP basing his opinion on
and they do indeed, confirm 'mechanical' drives are holding up progress (same as old gen consoles, since they have by default mechanical drives)
is it not complete true to expect, a minimum requirement for pc games will be SSD required, in the near future.
if thats the case, then 100% the mechanical is the lowest common denominator?
if wrong, that wouldnt surprise me, im no expert
and they do indeed, confirm 'mechanical' drives are holding up progress (same as old gen consoles, since they have by default mechanical drives)
is it not complete true to expect, a minimum requirement for pc games will be SSD required, in the near future.
if thats the case, then 100% the mechanical is the lowest common denominator?
if wrong, that wouldnt surprise me, im no expert
Tripolygon
Banned
You have proven that a CEO of a company who he himself is a graphics programmer does not know what he is talking about with his own game engine? This is the same level of nonsense with people proving that Lisa Su is wrong about PS5 being RDNA 2.
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Wake me up when consoles fully support mouse and KB controls across all genres where they make sense and the same for when they support Virpil and VKB flight controls and any direct drive wheel.
Until then, they are still little bitches to the PC and will never match the PC when it comes to CPU and GPU performance. And this is a person that owns all of the current little bitches and will do the same for the next gen little bitches.
Until then, they are still little bitches to the PC and will never match the PC when it comes to CPU and GPU performance. And this is a person that owns all of the current little bitches and will do the same for the next gen little bitches.
Blond
Banned
Considering how much work on this engine is being done in China and those guys have it, created the demo and ran it I'm more willing to believe the engineers vs someone doing PR control because Sony gave them fun bucks.
I'm not sure what happened with gaming for them to think most of us are still 12 years old and can't tell what's happening. The SSD will be great for development, i'm sure it's gonna make up for it's lack of horsepower, but let's be real it won't be the world changing thing you think it is for an end user.
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OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
Who doesn't have an ssd these days? I don't think you can even buy a prebuilt without one. Anyway, welcome to 2010 console guys.
MoreJRPG
Suffers from extreme PDS
Exactly, I’m pretty sure HDD’s have only lasted this long for their purpose to be used as extended storage for current gen console’s and people with bloated folders full of movies and music they haven’t touched in ten year.
SSD’s are virtually the standard at this point on PC and nvme SSD is slowly gaining ground.
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