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[JareBear: Remastered]

I honestly hate CA in every game. I always turn it off when I can.

 

[JLMC469]

So one of the most scalable 3rd party engines ever (if not the most) got shown on PS5.

Logic of some posters, “it must be because only the PS5 is powerful enough to show it’s potential”.

 

[nordique]

Absolutely stunning.

love it!

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

So one of the most scalable 3rd party engines ever (if not the most) got shown on PS5.

Logic of some posters, “it must be because only the PS5 is powerful enough to show it’s potential”.

Do you think we see UE5 demo running on XsX soon or will they wait until their July event?

 

[JLMC469]

Do you think we see UE5 demo running on XsX soon or will they wait until their July event?

TBH, I wouldn’t be surprised if they don’t show the demo.

I think we are going to have to wait until the July event.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I Liked his explanation (approach) and I am excited to See the reality


One thing that makes sense to me if I listen to the different approaches is the following:

1) "[...]PS5 seems to be easier to extract the most performance out of early on[...]"
2) "[...]sounds like XSX will have more room for devs to get creative with their own approaches to certain challenges as next-gen progresses[...]"

--> If you think about this in a metaphoric way and imagine the studio situation it makes perfect sense why the one would leave a team with more creative space and enabling for own approaches and why the other would try to establish efficiency/effectiveness of work.

The PS5 has several multi-generation teams that have extensive experience in the industry and the PS5 APU, work-ethic, culture and network of PS knows them inside out as much as they do. Metaophorically speaking, they do know HOW to create and draft a beer, they just need to do it much faster and much more efficent in their bar and that is exactly what Sony is allowing them to do. It's much more about enabling and empowering a lined-out path and fueling the thought process that is already there. Think about "REYES Mindset" we hear now. This has been there all along with Horizon with this technique called I don't know what - where only the visible polygons are being calculated...Horizon delivered this already.

The XSEX has some multi-generaiton teams, but after all,and Phil/Aaron have pledged building it up step-by-step, they need to find their studios still and give them the respect and support to get adjusted to the Xbox Exclusivity Universe and also allow them to develop themselves. In this regard a creative space and enablement is the ONLY way to go. You need these studios to get to "find themselves" and develop their own approaches. Metaphorically speaking: They know kind of what their vision on creating a beer and drafting is, however, they haven't done that on a AAA scale. They probably created some incredible home-made-beers, but they haven't had the big draft beer export/import success stories. They need to get there. Getting there will have lots and lots and lots of inefficiencies and these inefficiencies need scope and space or you lose your vision on the way. Remember graphics on Uncharted 1 vs. Uncharted 2 etc. the evolution of ND is incredible...the same will happen to these studios eventually but for this they need additional juice and that is exactly what the XSEX is going to offer.

By the end of the day this is going to be decided by the amount of enabling of lined out paths vs. overcoming inefficiencies and delivering on vision....
We will see.

To add on to this, I get the feeling next gen we're going to have more variety out of MS's 1st-party compared to Sony's. There's a few key reasons for this. Mainly, it comes down to MS's push for Gamepass and Xcloud (services that require variety out of necessity), and what you bring up in terms of the XSX being designed a way so as to let their studios find/refine their own voice. More specifically regards Sony, they have already said they look to make fewer AAA games next-gen but of bigger scope, so that will most likely (naturally) lead to lesser variety between them. Variety does NOT intrinsically mean quality, mind.

Back to MS, some of their studios, I would say, already have found their voice in given genres; Playground Games for example have pretty much commandeered the racing genre for the past few years by now. But that same studio is likely taking on an IP in the form of Fable, which is not a genre they are normally known for, so they'll need to learn the ropes of that efficiently and a system designed with a more "hands-off" approach in terms of automating some parts of the hardware pipeline will give the creative room to try various approaches, many in tandem.

That's a big reason why MS seem to have leaned more on priorities of compute tasks like AI, ML, etc; that isn't to say PS5 won't have those features, but they aren't as paramount to its design philosophy as they are for XSX's, similar to how PS5's beefy hardware SSD I/O stack isn't paramount to XSX's design philosophy (though I'd believe they are looking to implement many of those same solutions through software protocols and API features, such as Direct Storage, which can also scale across console and PC systems; server systems too).

I think if people would choose to moreso acknowledge the systems for what they are and not feel some gut motivation to imply one is inferior to the other simply because it doesn't have the edge in a given department, we'd have an overall much healthier discourse on next-gen hardware.

Yes the engine is multi platform and will produce great results on all platforms. But it won’t look the same as that on all platforms as that demo relied on streaming assets on the fly from the SSD, and only PS5's solution is fast enough to do that to that degree.

This isn't actually necessarily true. I would think that with optimizations, and targeted use of Direct Storage's features, BCPack, Sampler Streaming Feedback etc. you can easily get that level of asset streaming from XSX's combined hardware and software SSD I/O stack. It's not like it's anemic, and it itself is better than a vast majority of what PCs and any game consoles (aside from PS5) are rocking on both fronts.

PS5's is just that much better, at least on the hardware I/O side, but it doesn't render them as the only way to stream that level of asset quality, not even close. An approach on XSX may require a bit more tailored solution, but it's more than possible.

 

[Lethal01]

Just to be clear we still very much need ray tracing. Even if only to fill in the gaps. There are Big gaps to fill

 

[makaveli60]

I haven't finished reading the full topic yet, so maybe others csme up with this idea too... but imagine how cool it would be jf this demo was included on every PS5? Just so you can amaze your family and friends (and yourself of course).

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Its unlikely with no Sony input as they massively praise the ps5 all the way through the interview, and not shoring it on PC Or XSX platforms which are inportant to EPIC must mean those platforms would struggle more.

Why would a major 3rd-party engine creator actively praise one system to the point of implication of negative opinion on competing platforms they provide that same engine support for...unless there was some sort of back room marketing deal struck so as to not mention competitor platforms in the first place?

Look I get you guys like to hoo-rah all day every day thinking every post is a battle and your words are the proverbial swords, but somewhere in the middle of that common sense and logic got stabbed in the heart and left to die on the field. So you're kinda just left to circle-jerk while being ironically unaware.

I don't see the mentality behind people who have a burning need to make one system seem incompetent or unable to do some of the most basic features just to get hyped for another. If anything it shouldn't be offensive to suggest this type of demo could run on XSX or PC without issue; it would need to be tailored somewhat to those platforms but that is the case with literally any demo. Because if the notion is that this demo is unoptimized for PS5, the logical assumption is any performance issues on XSX would be from unoptimization, not inability. And if the demo IS optimized for PS5, then that is kind of a bad sign considering it's "only" 1440p dynamic resolution and 30 FPS. Which would beg the question just how overhyped is next-gen *really* if limits were already being reached on a tech demo before the systems even launch!

See, it's not hard to see why your logic fails once you put the pom-poms down and think it through with some logic.

And we have seen an old gen game load in 11 seconds and thats it, NO OTHER EXAMPLES yet.

State of Decay 2, right? Can you count? That was ~ 6 seconds. 6.5 seconds at max. How hard did you honk your nose to count to 11?

Don't honk so hard, it can cause abrasive soreness and we can't afford to be wasting any ice out here in these lockdown streets

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

Dude if Fable is running on UE5...fuckkkkkkkin hell that would be great

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Dude if Fable is running on UE5...fuckkkkkkkin hell that would be great

If anything it's probably currently on UE4 or maybe even using that Slipspace engine? If it's UE4 they can port dev over to UE5 once Epic provides it to other studios (they might make exceptions for MS, Sony and Nintendo to get it to them ahead of other companies probably, but it likely won't be until after PS5 and XSX launch).

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

Well, when Epic said that Fortnite will launch on PS5 and XsX, and that the game will migrate to UE5 in 2021, what does that mean exactly? You will need to re-download the game? Probably a dumb question but you can't just "patch in" a new engine, right?

 

[YCoCg]

Does anyone have a good copy of this video? A Direct Download perhaps? Something that isn't YouTube? It feels counter-productive to show off the latest visuals and tech through the lens of YouTube Compression.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Well, when Epic said that Fortnite will launch on PS5 and XsX, and that the game will migrate to UE5 in 2021, what does that mean exactly? You will need to re-download the game? Probably a dumb question but you can't just "patch in" a new engine, right?

Dunno. Are they as greedy as EA? If so then yep.

 

[Radical_3d]

Dude if Fable is running on UE5...fuckkkkkkkin hell that would be great

There is nothing with this engine. It has a beta for devs in 2021 and launches later that year. I’ll count any studio that launches shortly before or shortly after that launch in the UE5 boat. Until then we can only dream.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

Does anyone have a good copy of this video? A Direct Download perhaps? Something that isn't YouTube? It feels counter-productive to show off the latest visuals and tech through the lens of YouTube Compression.

Everything I have found, I have put in the OP. I literally can't add anymore media sources to it.

If anyone finds an uncompressed video file of the demo let me know and I will switch it out

 

[geordiemp]

Why would a major 3rd-party engine creator actively praise one system to the point of implication of negative opinion on competing platforms they provide that same engine support for...unless there was some sort of back room marketing deal struck so as to not mention competitor platforms in the first place?

Look I get you guys like to hoo-rah all day every day thinking every post is a battle and your words are the proverbial swords, but somewhere in the middle of that common sense and logic got stabbed in the heart and left to die on the field. So you're kinda just left to circle-jerk while being ironically unaware.

I don't see the mentality behind people who have a burning need to make one system seem incompetent or unable to do some of the most basic features just to get hyped for another. If anything it shouldn't be offensive to suggest this type of demo could run on XSX or PC without issue; it would need to be tailored somewhat to those platforms but that is the case with literally any demo. Because if the notion is that this demo is unoptimized for PS5, the logical assumption is any performance issues on XSX would be from unoptimization, not inability. And if the demo IS optimized for PS5, then that is kind of a bad sign considering it's "only" 1440p dynamic resolution and 30 FPS. Which would beg the question just how overhyped is next-gen *really* if limits were already being reached on a tech demo before the systems even launch!

See, it's not hard to see why your logic fails once you put the pom-poms down and think it through with some logic.



State of Decay 2, right? Can you count? That was ~ 6 seconds. 6.5 seconds at max. How hard did you honk your nose to count to 11?

Don't honk so hard, it can cause abrasive soreness and we can't afford to be wasting any ice out here in these lockdown streets

Lets wait until MS shows some next gen demo or gameplay then instead of making fast sounding marketing terms and not showing anything yet.

Also, does it hurt you that your XSX is not the best at something, its fun watching your meltdown.

Oh and less of the perssonal stuff honking or whatever. the loading was so slow I got bored waiting ....no I did not wait for it to load, looked poor.

 

[ethomaz]

So 2% of PC players will be able to run this properly. Cool. Clearly that isn't good.

More like less than 1%.

Well, when Epic said that Fortnite will launch on PS5 and XsX, and that the game will migrate to UE5 in 2021, what does that mean exactly? You will need to re-download the game? Probably a dumb question but you can't just "patch in" a new engine, right?

It will received an update build on UE5 instead UE4.
Not all Giles needs to be replaced... game assets for example are the same no matter the version of the engine.
The engine binaries and core game binaries will be replaced to the newer version thought.

 

[YCoCg]

Everything I have found, I have put in the OP. I literally can't add anymore media sources to it.

If anyone finds an uncompressed video file of the demo let me know and I will switch it out

Yeah I looked over, it's just YouTube and Twitter links, which is weird, you'd think they'd want to show this off the best way possible? Come on Epic, where's a 4K HDR download of this?

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

Lets wait until MS shows some next gen demo or gameplay then instead of making fast sounding marketing terms and not showing anything yet.

Also, doe sit hurt you that your XSX is not the best at something, its fun watching your meltdown.

Oh and less of the perseonal stuff, children.

C'mon, my dude, it's all good. Nobody here is melting down.

 

[VAVA Mk2]

WHO CARES?!?!

-_-

 

[Cleared_Hot]

Whelp that's it. We don't need movies for much longer.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

The tweets between Geoff and the other guy afterward got a little silly

 

[01011001]

Just to be clear we still very much need ray tracing. Even if only to fill in the gaps. There are Big gaps to fill

the day where all screen space driven effects are eliminated and erased from this planet will be a glorious one!
nothing annoys me more than those glitch ass looking effects

while this isn't as offensive as SSR, it's still annoying

 

[Lethal01]

the day where all screen space driven effects are eliminated and erased from this planet will be a glorious one!
nothing annoys me more than those glitch ass looking effects

while this isn't as offensive as SSR, it's still annoying

Problem here could actually be less about it being screen space and more about it accumulating light bounced over time and combining them temporaly. You see the same thing in minecraft raytracing.

Solution, just play at 144hz.EZ


Edit: Nvm I was in a rush those artifact are obviously 100% due to being screen space and look just like what you get from SSR SSAO etc.

 

[RayHell]

U can slam SSD's in PCI-E 16x slot mate and raid them on top of it.

Does anybody on PC care? nope.

Those sequetial read speed mean nothing in real world. PS5 will crush this setup in 4k random read speed with his 12 channel. Also those test do a read/write speed and do nothing with the data. PC has a lot of layering and overhead to move data around that PS5 does way more efficiently.

Here's a quote from Tim Sweeney regarding this.

"Those PC numbers are theoretical, and are from drive into kernel memory. From there, it's a slow and circuitous journey through software decompression to GPU driver swizzling into video memory where you can eventually use it. The PS5 path for this is several times more efficient."

 

[RayHell]

Should google DDR4 mate.

This will run perfectly fine on PC mate, and on xbox and on even ipads and mobiles sooner rather then later on top of it. should probably watch the sweeny interview after the demo.

I think some of you guys get a bit lost on what is really going on at this point.

Yeah let's make 128GB of ram standard for PC gamer so they can wait 15 minutes for loading the game.

I listened to the interview he was talking about that demo that can scale by using more traditional rendering technics like LOD and lower resolution texture. Do you really think ipads will run this demo with billions of triamgles and 8k texture mate.

 

[Xplainin]

Those sequetial read speed mean nothing in real world. PS5 will crush this setup in 4k random read speed with his 12 channel. Also those test do a read/write speed and do nothing with the data. PC has a lot of layering and overhead to move data around that PS5 does way more efficiently.

Here's a quote from Tim Sweeney regarding this.

"Those PC numbers are theoretical, and are from drive into kernel memory. From there, it's a slow and circuitous journey through software decompression to GPU driver swizzling into video memory where you can eventually use it. The PS5 path for this is several times more efficient."

Everything the consoles do is streamlined compared to PC. Both the PS5 and XSX SSDs are linked straight onto the APU. This cant happen on PC.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

Xbox Head Phil Spencer Talks Unreal Engine 5

Xbox boss Phil Spencer and marketing executive Aaron Greenberg talk about why they're excited for the new game engine.

www.gamespot.com

I thought this would be something significant when it popped up on my twitter but it is just the tweets from Phil and Greenberg.

The PS5 tech demo, called "Lumen in the Land of Nanite," is not a real game, but it was actually playable. Epic had planned to bring it to the Game Developers Conference in March to allow people to play for themselves, according to IGN, but the show was eventually canceled.

Epic's Unreal Engine 4 was recently updated to support PS5 and Xbox Series X development, which is what studios will use until Unreal Engine 5 releases in full in 2021. That being the case, it might take some time before studios are able to fully harness the power of the new technology in their games. Epic's own Fortnite will make the shift to Unreal Engine 5 in 2021.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Dude if Fable is running on UE5...fuckkkkkkkin hell that would be great

The features on the demo are features of current gen hardware, expect those to be implemented to some degree in all engines that support the consoles within a year of two from their release,

 

[Cleared_Hot]

Do you think we see UE5 demo running on XsX soon or will they wait until their July event?

They're better off showing the new engine for Halo

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

They're better off showing the new engine for Halo

Well for sure, they definitely gotta show that too, but given how hot yesterday’s reveal was wouldn’t it be a good move to show it can run the same demo as well (assuming it can)?

 

[PleaseWaitStation4]

Now we're talkin'. Imagine if this was an actual game.

 

[Elder Legend]

The only thing that you could somewhat call faced paced were the last few seconds of flying, which was smothered in motion blur and still remained in a smallish, narrow environment where you could see that most of the the detail stopped once it reached the portal. They said that the detail stretches all the way into the horizon, but I don't see it, after the halfway mark where the level ends at the portal, the land is barren with repeating models/geometry.



I've heard this and similar for years, some of which never saw the light of day or beyond a game or two.. Like I said, I'll keep my expectations down and wait until finished games actually release that look like these.

Lol. The Samartian tech demo from UE3 already exists in games. It's called Batman Arkham Night and many would argue it looks better than the tech demo.

Here is the demo for reference -

 

[Radical_3d]

Well for sure, they definitely gotta show that too, but given how hot yesterday’s reveal was wouldn’t it be a good move to show it can run the same demo as well (assuming it can)?

No. Nooooo. MS doesn’t needs a me too movement for a tech that nobody owns anyway. First party engines and/or optimised code should easily surpass what a Jack of all trades engine can do. I think that Halo Infinite will be huge in that regard.

 

[martino]

Why would a major 3rd-party engine creator actively praise one system to the point of implication of negative opinion on competing platforms they provide that same engine support for...unless there was some sort of back room marketing deal struck so as to not mention competitor platforms in the first place?

Look I get you guys like to hoo-rah all day every day thinking every post is a battle and your words are the proverbial swords, but somewhere in the middle of that common sense and logic got stabbed in the heart and left to die on the field. So you're kinda just left to circle-jerk while being ironically unaware.

I don't see the mentality behind people who have a burning need to make one system seem incompetent or unable to do some of the most basic features just to get hyped for another. If anything it shouldn't be offensive to suggest this type of demo could run on XSX or PC without issue; it would need to be tailored somewhat to those platforms but that is the case with literally any demo. Because if the notion is that this demo is unoptimized for PS5, the logical assumption is any performance issues on XSX would be from unoptimization, not inability. And if the demo IS optimized for PS5, then that is kind of a bad sign considering it's "only" 1440p dynamic resolution and 30 FPS. Which would beg the question just how overhyped is next-gen *really* if limits were already being reached on a tech demo before the systems even launch!

See, it's not hard to see why your logic fails once you put the pom-poms down and think it through with some logic.



State of Decay 2, right? Can you count? That was ~ 6 seconds. 6.5 seconds at max. How hard did you honk your nose to count to 11?

Don't honk so hard, it can cause abrasive soreness and we can't afford to be wasting any ice out here in these lockdown streets

Or it is because they will struggle. How can we be sure atm ?
Yes, the marketing here is with Sony so all Sony pr words and ideas were said.
But absence of infos doesn't prove anything in one way or another.

 

[mckmas8808]

Lol. The Samartian tech demo from UE3 already exists in games. It's called Batman Arkham Night and many would argue it looks better than the tech demo.

Here is the demo for reference -

Exactly! People seemed to have forgotten that Batman game even exists.

 

[Handy Fake]

So one of the most scalable 3rd party engines ever (if not the most) got shown on PS5.

Logic of some posters, “it must be because only the PS5 is powerful enough to show it’s potential”.

When you take into account the SSD speed, you've answered your own rhetorical question there.

 

[jackets with pockets]

I honestly hate CA in every game. I always turn it off when I can.

Hear hear.

Chromatic aberration, motion blur, depth of field blur, lens flares/dirt, film grain and whatnot. I always disable all of the post-process effects if possible. Either via in-game menu or configuration file.

 

[MightySquirrel]

Just to be clear we still very much need ray tracing. Even if only to fill in the gaps. There are Big gaps to fill

Slap raytracing on this demo and it will run at 10 fps 1440p, if that. [it already runs at 30 fps 1440p and below]

 

[GymWolf]

Hear hear.

Chromatic aberration, motion blur, depth of field blur, lens flares/dirt, film grain and whatnot. I always disable all of the post-process effects if possible. Either via in-game menu or configuration file.

Are you me?

 

[geordiemp]

You can see the demo is designed to run on anything desired. Stopgaps for loading the next section are all over the place. I guarantee you, this demo barely took any advantage of the PS5 SSD.

Didnt last long your guarantee did it, its not just about SSD speed, you still dont GET IT>

PS the narrow section was commented on as being there for another reason if you actually bothered to listen to the EPIC devs.

 

[pawel86ck]

Slap raytracing on this demo and it will run at 10 fps 1440p, if that. [it already runs at 30 fps 1440p and below]

They still trace rays in this UE5 tech demo (otherwise you will not get real time GI), but it's their own optimized method.

 

[geordiemp]

Slap raytracing on this demo and it will run at 10 fps 1440p, if that. [it already runs at 30 fps 1440p and below]

You cant, it uses Voxels / traingles with severe culling so the entire world is not really there to bounce reflections off, whats there is traingles your looking at not the whole area. ...its a different method and does its own lighting and shadows using voxel tracing so a different method.

So whats better, voxels and this method with illumination using megapixels

or

Normal rendering with ray tracing, they can be very impressive in smaller spaces.

Decisions. I for one can say the megapixel billions polys looks better IMO, hands down for stuff shown so far.

 

[Vick]

Looks great, and then you notice the CA...

Sadly, this UE5 demo also has chromatic aberration.

I honestly hate CA in every game. I always turn it off when I can.

Excesses of CA can indeed look pretty nasty, just like every excess, but without chromatic aberration you’ll never see anything entirely photorealistic. It’s not just something present in every capture device, your own eyes view through CA. I noticed it the first time in Crysis 3 and realized it was one was one the reasons it looked so real.
What you need to avoid is overutilizing it the way many games did at the start of this gen, like Bloodborne or Dying Light.

Hear hear.

Chromatic aberration, motion blur, depth of field blur, lens flares/dirt, film grain and whatnot. I always disable all of the post-process effects if possible. Either via in-game menu or configuration file.

Without motion blur 30fps titles are awful to look at, and per object motion blur is one of the reasons (along with the much more prominent DOF, lol, and AO and SSS) Uncharted 2 was considered visually a generation above Drake’s Fortune (no one apparently noticed downgrades such as texture and shaders resolution, shadows, particles, enemies AI and animations, etc.) and God of War 3 considered CGI looking by everyone at the time. You need these things, but they need to be tastefully added.
Having awful displays with awful settings (every techonology outside of CRT and Plasma introduces to various degrees additional motion blur not present in the source) is not a good reason to push the industry backwards.

Glad John keeps fighting for per object motion blur on DF in every occasion, love him for that.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Well for sure, they definitely gotta show that too, but given how hot yesterday’s reveal was wouldn’t it be a good move to show it can run the same demo as well (assuming it can)?

Best to just move on and evolve the narrative. People will forget about the demo in a month's time.

 

[Altares13th]

You cant, it uses Voxels / traingles with severe culling so the entire world is not really there to bounce reflections off, whats there is traingles your looking at not the whole area. ...its a different method and does its own lighting and shadows using voxel tracing so a different method.

So whats better, voxels and this method with illumination using megapixels

or

Normal rendering with ray tracing, they can be very impressive in smaller spaces.

Decisions. I for one can say the megapixel billions polys looks better IMO, hands down for stuff shown so far.

Yes, I was thinking the same thing! I don't think this method is compatible with hardware raytracing at all. But I don't mind those RT cores being used for more complex physics calculations like fluids and CG quality clothing. Actually, this has been a dream of mine since the PhysX card came out a decade ago.

 

[jackets with pockets]

your own eyes view through CA

That's precisely why there is no need to add chromatic aberration. Same goes for motion blur, any kind of motion blur. If you quickly move the mouse say, in a first-person shooter, there's natural motion blur that your eyes create and also the blur the monitor creates (some less some more). For me, at least, that's plenty enough blurring already. You might need those effects but I certainly do not.

I have a very strong natural reaction against seeing those effects in the games I play. It's disgust and anger.

 

[Dodkrake]

Didnt last long your guarantee did it, its not just about SSD speed, you still dont GET IT>

PS the narrow section was commented on as being there for another reason if you actually bothered to listen to the EPIC devs.

God, these people don't rest.

 

[Hendrick's]

I'd like to see this same demo with actual ray tracing. I think the difference would be quite noticeable.