V
Vilix
Unconfirmed Member
I’m going to wait until the official price comes out. Just too many variables about the future economy. It could very well be $500. But we’ll see.
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Bloomberg: PS5 Will Launch In 2020 In "Limited Supply", Cost $500 Or More
- Thread starter Golgo 13
- Start date
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
I wonder why all of sudden tflops are not a good indicator, people had no problems using them in 2013.
Posts like these are so transparent. reminds of the talk of "move engines, higher clockrate of cpu/gpu, special sound chip, dx12 etc etc back in 2013.
xool
Member
Mmh maybe they do work out at the same price - Sony on has to get 768GB vs 1024GB for MS .. but they Sony needs 12 channels - how many chips is that ? Do quad channel chips exist or do they have to buy more chips ?
..
$150 is home consumer prices though - it's way too high
Thirty7ven
Banned
It has a weaker GPU, that's it. Anything removed from that is fanboy drivel that has no place in reality, and if your mood depends on made up fantasies then you have bigger problems anyway.
But I agree that there's literally no need to come up with an excel spreadsheet every time someone decides to push their fantasies into the collective through means of a forum post. There's simply no way they get to control the narrative with their bullshit, so no need to be so reactionary.
Anybody who needs the most powerful hardware should be on PC, and if they aren't then they aren't getting the most powerful hardware, end of story.
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Crimson_Fate
Member
I was actually prepared to pay up to $599 and I was going to pre-order 2 . but thats back before the Cerney speech. No preorders for me this gen maybe wait for the 15TF PRO. I wouldn't pay more then $399 for the PS5 in its current config.
JimboJones
Member
Sony Microsoft and fans be waiting for each other to show first
BluRayHiDef
Banned
My post breaks down the specs of each console's GPU component by component and is therefore much more informative than the single metric that is teraflops. The fact of the matter is that the PS5 is more than fast enough to render games at 4K at 60 frames per second; the slightly greater level of speed of the XSX's GPU is unnecessary.
Hence, other factors, such as the nonexistent load times and instantaneous asset streaming due to the PS5's SSD, make the PS5 the better choice.
diffusionx
Gold Member
$500 in this economy...good luck with that Sony.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
It also has locked clocks, higher cpu clocks and better ram setup.
There are console only gamers who want the most powerful hardware evident from the og PS4 ps4 pro and x1x
BluRayHiDef
Banned
The GPUs of the PS5 and the XSX are structured according to AMD's RDNA2 microarchitecture, which provides 60% more performance per teraflop relative to the architecture of the GPUs in the consoles of the current generation. Hence, the PS5 and the XSX are like 16Tf and 19Tf machines, respectively, by the standards of the current generation.
DaGwaphics
Member
If the Phison rumor is correct, and MS is using a 4 channel (chip) config, it's unlikely that they would be the same price as Sony for a 12 channel design. Even with Sony using slower nand, I don't think you could bridge that gap.
BattleScar
Member
Teraflops have never been a direct indicator of gaming performance.
That was true with the PS3,/360 PS4/XB1, PS4 Pro/XB1X and will continue to be true for the PS5/XSX.
Teraflops are a measure of the peak single precision floating point operations (i.e math) that the GPU can perform.
And yes the term "peak" applies to both the variable clock PS5 and fixed clock XSX. Why you ask? Because the peak teraflop number assumes that every single vector ALU is occupied and performing calculations.
The reality is that shader occupancy in a GPU is pretty much never 100%. The more shaders you have, the more difficult it is to keep those shaders occupied.
That is all.
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Evil Calvin
Afraid of Boobs
Because I would buy it at $499 but certainly not at $500. $500 is too much!
Fake
Member
I recommend you read the entire article.
Bryank75
Banned
I expected 500 anyway, 550 is no problem, I had considered games and accessories too...
My problem is the limited supply, they really need to get production up... why are we not hearing this about Xbox? It makes me worried that they are handing early sales to Xbox just because Xbox could over saturate the shops and market in general with a console that has slightly better specs on paper.
People get anxious to buy and can settle for something similar to fill the void.
My problem is the limited supply, they really need to get production up... why are we not hearing this about Xbox? It makes me worried that they are handing early sales to Xbox just because Xbox could over saturate the shops and market in general with a console that has slightly better specs on paper.
People get anxious to buy and can settle for something similar to fill the void.
Agnostic2020
Member
Ram is definitely not so clear yet . Ram is divided into two module on xsx and they can not be accessed at the same time which is not the issue on ps5 side. So when cpu is using the slower ram on xsx gpu stands idle till that cycle is finished and gpu can access the fast ram pool. Besides ps5 due to 22gb/s ssd can offload ui to ssd and leave 15.5 gb to games that can be accessed by both gpu and cpu from that one ram pool compared to 13.5 on xsx.
So yea ram is definitely not as clear as you want to believe .
The Alien
Banned
Agreed. Those 5 or 6 million will sell fast.
Last month it was journos saying it would be supply chain, now it's the messaging that'll hold things up. I dunno if I believed either.
Thirty7ven
Banned
Locked clocks means dick squat for the end user, the CPU has a negligible higher clock and a better ram setup is your opinion clearly.
You wanna live in that bubble, realize that you're going to spend a lot of time in the upcoming years fighting over "lazy devs".
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
It's not expensive (controller is usually around $10 in parts, the are massively profitable) on its own, but it adds up. If you have to put in motors for haptic feedback, speakers, microphones, a touchpad, LED lights, a battery, two color plastic, it all adds up. The DualSense is definitely roughly twice the BOM of the XSX controller. And that translates to another $10 that the PS5 BOM is more expensive. And when you want to hit a certain limit, every single dollar counts (see the removal of SPDIF and second HDMI on XSX). Sony obviously can't just remove a couple of those features.
Fatal Enigma
Member
Why would you, I assume, a gamer worry about things like that?
I'm going to preorder day 1 to make sure If get one.
Then I read this and think maybe they fooled me
Then I read this and think maybe they fooled me
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
You did, but people didnt bother with this in 2013, why do it now?
The PS4 was widely accepted being 40% more powerful then the X1.
Its no different this gen the XsX is 20% more powerful then the PS5.
Its just some double standard bullshit, that PS5 fans still in denial use in a attempt to try and downplay the XsX's advantage.
The ps4 @ 1080p had about 30% more pixels then X1's 1600x900p
I expect the xsx to be capable of 15% more pixels then PS5. and then there Raytracing which i think will be 30% better on the XSX because it has 44% more compute units.
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xool
Member
Oh god just stop.
In what version of reality is 16GB on a 320bit bus slower/not faster than 16GB on a 256bit bus
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Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Yes the increase in tflops does not line up eith the resolution and framerate differences, but everyone knows that.
People have not been talking about tflops in the speculation threads and this entire generation for no reason.
The funny thing is, TFLOPS started to become a bad metric when the PS5 was announced to be less tflops then the xsx, its nothing more then salty PS5 fans trying to downplay the xsxs advantage.
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Agnostic2020
Member
Wtf ? Can u not read ? Xsx memory is split into 2. One fast part for gpu and one slow part for cpu ,os and low level graphics. Both can not be accessed at the same time . We are looking at the way the ram operates. This is a bottleneck compared to way ps5 ram operates. But u do u.
D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
How is it exactly a bottleneck?
Agnostic2020
Member
wHen cpu is accessing the slow memory gpu goes into idle waiting for its turn to be able to acess the ram .gpu sitting idle is a bottleneck by definition and devs need to find a way to get around this.
TBiddy
Member
What happens with the GPU when the PS5 CPU is accessing the memory?
D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
You do know how quickly this RAM is, right? And what the CPU needs to access, what type of data this is? Also I've never heard any tech outlet say anything about this. What's your source for this?
BattleScar
Member
That doesn't change anything.
Xbox fans did the same shit back when the Xbox One had much lower compute than the PS4. Bad metrics are bad metrics, regardless of which fanboys get salty about lower numbers.
Physiognomonics
Member
Do they really think they'll have trouble selling their consoles during the first months ? This thing is going to be sold out for many months.Despite rumors of a potential delay, PS5 is indeed going to launch in 2020, according to a new Bloomberg report.
Also in the cards is a $500-$550 price tag, people familiar with the matter said.
Sony Plans Limited PlayStation 5 Output in First Year
Sony Corp. plans to produce far fewer units of its upcoming PlayStation 5 in its first year than it had for the previous-generation console’s launch, according to people familiar with the matter.www.bloomberg.com
"The biggest impact from COVID 19 is on the reveal of PS5, not production or release".
A few other interesting tidbits in there including them producing fewer units due to lower projected demand -- because of the higher price, they expect to sell less units than PS4.
How much do you think it will launch for? I think it'll be $500 and it won't set the world on fire like the PS4 did, mainly due to price (and the economic after effects of COVID, I'm guessing). They better have some killer launch games if they expect people to pony up $500-$600 on day one for this thing.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Despite rumors of a potential delay, PS5 is indeed going to launch in 2020, according to a new Bloomberg report.
Also in the cards is a $500-$550 price tag, people familiar with the matter said.
Sony Plans Limited PlayStation 5 Output in First Year
Sony Corp. plans to produce far fewer units of its upcoming PlayStation 5 in its first year than it had for the previous-generation console’s launch, according to people familiar with the matter.
"The biggest impact from COVID 19 is on the reveal of PS5, not production or release".
A few other interesting tidbits in there including them producing fewer units due to lower projected demand -- because of the higher price, they expect to sell less units than PS4.
How much do you think it will launch for? I think it'll be $500 and it won't set the world on fire like the PS4 did, mainly due to price (and the economic after effects of COVID, I'm guessing). They better have some killer launch games if they expect people to pony up $500-$600 on day one for this thing.
It'll sell out day one if it's $500. WE WANT IT BAD!
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Yeah I agree, I called it out in 2013 and will call it out now.
BluRayHiDef
Banned
The problem is that you're treating individuals as if they're part of a monolithic group in which everyone thinks and feels the same. I wasn't part of the group that was touting the 40% power gap in terms of teraflops between the PlayStation 4 and the Xbox One.
Also, the issue with the power of the Xbox One relative to the PlayStation 4 is that the Xbox One isn't powerful enough to render games at the target resolution of it and the PlayStation 4: 1080p. However, in regard to the Xbox Series X and the PlayStation 5, even though the latter's GPU is slower in some regards, the system is still powerful enough to render games at it and the XSX's target resolution: 4K.
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Stop talking like it's 1996. It's 2020! The PS5 (and XSX) will be able to play all our current games in higher framerates and better resolutions. PLUS, with an SSD my quality of life while playing (TLOU2, Ghost of Tshumia, CyberPunk 2077, etc) these games will all be better than playing them on my PS4 Pro.
I don't need great 2nd generation games to enjoy a new-gen. That's the old way of thinking.
Why exactly? It's just a PCB.
Controllers are usually general purpose CPU cores (ARM/MIPS) anyway.
yurinka
Member
I bet the price will be $499, just like Series X.
With a worldwide release I expect a sold out in a few days, their supply chain won't be able to satisfy the demand from the people specially if they have a big exclusive AAA at launch.
In addition to his, we have to consider that the weaker console in tflops is better in some important tasks not included in tflops count (example: those benefited by having faster GPU frequency and don't need all CUs, gain from a more optimized memory and I/O management, etc), the way they addressed several traditional bottlenecks, changed several paradigms from their boost type, sharing CPU and GPU computational resources or I/O and memory management to the point that makes very difficult to see which one will provide better performance in games.
I expect that BOM, performance and price of both consoles will be pretty similar. Because yes, Series X will have a more expensive APU. But PS5 will have a more expensive SDD or pad.
With a worldwide release I expect a sold out in a few days, their supply chain won't be able to satisfy the demand from the people specially if they have a big exclusive AAA at launch.
Because this time the difference in tflops is smaller than ever, the technology added this gen makes teraflops as comparision more pointless than before, because each new generation they include new hardware and stuff that removes work that previously was needed to be done there and now isn't needed or is done elsewhere.
In addition to his, we have to consider that the weaker console in tflops is better in some important tasks not included in tflops count (example: those benefited by having faster GPU frequency and don't need all CUs, gain from a more optimized memory and I/O management, etc), the way they addressed several traditional bottlenecks, changed several paradigms from their boost type, sharing CPU and GPU computational resources or I/O and memory management to the point that makes very difficult to see which one will provide better performance in games.
I expect that BOM, performance and price of both consoles will be pretty similar. Because yes, Series X will have a more expensive APU. But PS5 will have a more expensive SDD or pad.
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ZywyPL
Banned
The #Team15TF was the funniest one ;D
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
The XSX is 18% more powerful to be exact.
DaGwaphics
Member
As a rule nand is cheaper based on the number of chips you need (even if the density is higher). A 1TB that utilizes 4 chips is generally cheaper to manufacture than a 1TB design that utilizes 8. There is also more market penetration for 4 channel 1TB designs, these are the types of drives that most OEMs will use when choosing NVMe (outside of a few gaming specific configurations that will advertise the greater performance of an 8 channel design). That helps with nand availability and cost; using a tiny size that is largely out of manufacture can alter cost projections.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Well its not just you doing it, but its easy to spot attempts to try and make the difference of the ps5 and xsx less then it is, sony are guilty of this to.
When sometimes a cake is just a cake.
The ps4 pro could do 4k more often if sony decided to.
It will be up to devs how the ultilise the extra power of the consoles.
For cross gen games like cyberpunk, i think there will be 2 modes on next gen, performance and graphics modes, performance will be about 1900p 60fps on PS5 and 2160p 60fps on xsx, the visual setting will have both @ 4k 30fps but with the xsx having a higher Raytracing setting.
The xsx's higher ram bandwidth, more compute units and higher floating point operations per second. Will allow a step up in visuals or performance.
The PS5 will still be a great and powerful machine though. But its important to aknowledge reality.
HaveButOneLife
Banned
No console has ever been successful at $500, if this is the case, then I'm not buying either console until their prices drop.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
In real world use the gpu will be 18-21.5% more powerful, possible higher if the PS5s GPU dips below 10tflops, but I dont think it will based on what cerny said.
It wasn't just the stronger GPU of the PS4. It was also the 8 gigs of GDDR5 ram (a big shocker) compared to 8 gigs of ddr3 ram for the X one. On top of that the PS4 was $100 cheaper and on top of that was M.S. PR disaster. Your presenting a cherry picked false narrative.
And the X one X is 43% stronger than the PS4 Pro. The PS4 Pro one has the most impressive games.
BluRayHiDef
Banned
The thing is...the difference really is negligible. It ranges from 2.25% to 16% at most in the XSX's favor in regard to all but one aspect of GPU performance (as is shown in my calculations) and possibly 23.28% in regard to the one remaining aspect of GPU performance (rasterization) in the PS5's favor. So, I don't see why people are arguing that the XSX has HUGE advantages when its advantages are small and are accompanied by a disadvantage (rasterization).
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