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M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Well you can use GPU to be honest, some VST plug-ins does that, but yeah it would be pretty tall order and most often CPU is at play.
CJY
Banned
Reading comprehension fails you. He's saying the amount of GPU Compute saves by having the SPU can be saved for graphical work. I don't agree with his numbers, but this is a fact.
Project acoustics is not a substitute for having custom audio silicon. Project Acoustics is a pure software solution.
ResilientBanana
Member
Xbox Series X will have a dedicated audio chip, Ninja Theory engineers reveal | VGC
Hardware acceleration could enable 3D audio…
www.videogameschronicle.com
It appears to have a dedicated audio chip
Seriously, what the hell is going on here?
CJY
Banned
Absolutely serious.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
I know that nVidia are just amateurs but they might know something: (2009)
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None of the VST plugins I use use the GPU.
Most of them reuqire it for the dam dials and knobs and thats about it. The CPU is more than capable for DAW solutions.
CJY
Banned
Regular audio playback can be done through CPU, yeah. Audio ray tracing and 3D audio would use GPU.
Yes my take of it too.
XsX is more standard, brute force (more off the shelf RDNA2).
PS5 more elegant, esoteric and customised (Geometry Engine, Tempest Engine, GPU cache scrubbers).
reminds me of PS3 cell nightmare.
Lone Wolf
Member
Lol ok that’s for professional studios. It’s not needed or necessary on a console and you will only see one thing pushed hard on consoles and that is pretty graphics. no one is wasting processing power on audio. Graphics sell games On consoles.
CJY
Banned
Here's two threads on MS Project Acoustics.
Project Acoustics XSX Audio Video
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/cognitive-services/acoustics/what-is-acoustics
Project Acoustics - Wave acoustics engine for 3D interactive experiences by Microsoft
If you want to read more about this https://github.com/microsoft/ProjectAcoustics https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/cognitive-services/acoustics/what-is-acoustics Project Acoustics is a wave acoustics engine for 3D interactive experiences. It models wave effects like occlusion, obstruction...
I've also googled and can't find any mention of custom audio 3d sound chip inside XSX. Can you show us some evidence? I'm interested.
Project acoustics is also available for use in Unity engine.
CJY
Banned
Very true. It's sad we have to piece everything together ourselves, but I feel that there is enough corroboration from many, many sources to come to at least some conclusions about where the customisations and benefits are. Even if we don't have absolute figures, something which we probably will never know anyway.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
12.4TF is theoretical number, as you've freed the main GPU of the audio work, except audio ray tracing. It's still only 10.28TF, but only visuals, and XSX is calculating that + audio that can be as much taxing to put it below that 12.15TF mark overall.
The method is unique and ground-breaking, because it's secret sauce.
Lone Wolf
Member
Here's two threads on MS Project Acoustics.
Project Acoustics XSX Audio Video
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/cognitive-services/acoustics/what-is-acousticswww.neogaf.com
Project Acoustics - Wave acoustics engine for 3D interactive experiences by Microsoft
If you want to read more about this https://github.com/microsoft/ProjectAcoustics https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/cognitive-services/acoustics/what-is-acoustics Project Acoustics is a wave acoustics engine for 3D interactive experiences. It models wave effects like occlusion, obstruction...
I've also googled and can't find any mention of custom audio 3d sound chip inside XSX. Can you show us some evidence? I'm interested.
Project acoustics is also available for use in Unity engine.
Xbox Series X will have a dedicated audio chip, Ninja Theory engineers reveal | VGC
Hardware acceleration could enable 3D audio…
www.videogameschronicle.com
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Here's two threads on MS Project Acoustics.
Project Acoustics XSX Audio Video
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/cognitive-services/acoustics/what-is-acoustics
Project Acoustics - Wave acoustics engine for 3D interactive experiences by Microsoft
If you want to read more about this https://github.com/microsoft/ProjectAcoustics https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/cognitive-services/acoustics/what-is-acoustics Project Acoustics is a wave acoustics engine for 3D interactive experiences. It models wave effects like occlusion, obstruction...
I've also googled and can't find any mention of custom audio 3d sound chip inside XSX. Can you show us some evidence? I'm interested.
Project acoustics is also available for use in Unity engine.
Again, it's a chip that offloads CPU/RAM, but still there is the GPU homework. It's a great additions, but not as insanely good as the Tempest.
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Fact is also that most often audio is in Integer, not float, so that does not equals any more "TFlops".
Sure, but it's not impossible to do. Some Acustica vst uses GPU. But most of them don't because that would have been ineficient.
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D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
"Xbox Series X is the biggest generational leap of SoC [system on a chip] and API design that we’ve done with Microsoft, and it’s really an honor for AMD to be a trusted Microsoft partner for this endeavor," AMD's Sebastien Nussbaum said.
Source
Bo_Hazem
Banned
No worries, I appreciate your respectful approach:
PS5 solution is an AMD GPU-based compute unit stripped naked to only needed parts and modified, it works solely on Audio, leaving a great amount of room for the main GPU for visuals. I doubt it has anything to do with RAM/CPU.
XSX solution is a chip that processes the offloaded work from RAM/CPU, freeing both from that headache.
Both are very different, but Sony's is VERY critical and gives a big room for the main GPU to work more as if you've added up to 20% power by freeing the audio spot.
I hope that makes sense, you may go back to the main sources and you'll easily sum that up.
kyliethicc
Member
If they wanted to do $400 and $500 they might be able to go with the 10 TF PS5 and a 12 or 13 TF PS5 Pro that has a few more CUs or higher clock. I doubt it though.... but if it happens.... that’s be pretty fucking funny
ethomaz
Banned
Yeap AMD did the Xbox Series X’s APU... the GPU was never do-developed.
CJY
Banned
That article reads like someone held a gun up their head. I call shenanigans until the console comes out. I said it before and I'll say it again, MS tried to simply hit all of Sony's talking points + a higher GPU number. They think this will help them in their console war, but it probably won't.
My guess is that MS is dedicating a portion of the GPU to audio and reserving that within the IDE for audio, perhaps 1 or 2 compute units and calling that their "dedicated audio chip". We'll see.
I did look at the impact of the GPU when upgrading my Reaper rig, and yes youre absolutely right there are a few that will use compute, but not a huge amount. I didn't bother with a top GPU in the end.
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
You use Reaper? That's pretty hardcore. #AbletonLive4Life
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Did he? If he did then he's lying, PS5's is GPU-based compute unit, XSX is a chip to offload and process audio off RAM/CPU.
Metroiddarks
Member
Here isHere's two threads on MS Project Acoustics.
Project Acoustics XSX Audio Video
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/cognitive-services/acoustics/what-is-acoustics
Project Acoustics - Wave acoustics engine for 3D interactive experiences by Microsoft
If you want to read more about this https://github.com/microsoft/ProjectAcoustics https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/cognitive-services/acoustics/what-is-acoustics Project Acoustics is a wave acoustics engine for 3D interactive experiences. It models wave effects like occlusion, obstruction...
I've also googled and can't find any mention of custom audio 3d sound chip inside XSX. Can you show us some evidence? I'm interested.
Project acoustics is also available for use in Unity engine.
Xbox Series X will have a dedicated audio chip, Ninja Theory engineers reveal | VGC
Hardware acceleration could enable 3D audio…
www.videogameschronicle.com
In the photos appearing since Monday it was clear Xbox Series X didn't have a dedicated audio out (S/PDIF or a second HDMI out port)
You see:
- HDMI OUT
- 2 USB ports
- Ethernet port
- Storage Expansion (SSD) Slot
/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/19811995/Screenshot_2020_03_16_at_21.45.27.png)
Figure 8 power plug! That is surprising given the hardware, far more power efficient than I would have thought.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Here is
Xbox Series X will have a dedicated audio chip, Ninja Theory engineers reveal | VGC
Hardware acceleration could enable 3D audio…
PS5 solution is an AMD GPU-based compute unit stripped naked to only needed parts and modified, it works solely on Audio, leaving a great amount of room for the main GPU for visuals. I doubt it has anything to do with RAM/CPU.
XSX solution is a chip that processes the offloaded work from RAM/CPU, freeing both from that headache.
Both are very different, but Sony's is VERY critical and gives a big room for the main GPU to work more as if you've added up to 20% power by freeing the audio spot.
I hope that makes sense, you may go back to the main sources and you'll easily sum that up.
Proper production, Reaper with Native Instrument Komplete, a bucket load of Waves plugins and VSTis' from NI, Output and Heavyocity.
Ouput make the best VSTi's honestly, superb.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
You should shut that DirectX 12 and switch to Vulkan, you're malfunctioning.
---
PS5 solution is an AMD GPU-based compute unit stripped naked to only needed parts and modified, it works solely on Audio, leaving a great amount of room for the main GPU for visuals. I doubt it has anything to do with RAM/CPU.
XSX solution is a chip that processes the offloaded work from RAM/CPU, freeing both from that headache.
Both are very different, but Sony's is VERY critical and gives a big room for the main GPU to work more as if you've added up to 20% power by freeing the audio spot.
I hope that makes sense, you may go back to the main sources and you'll easily sum that up.
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
I am also using Waves a lot, but I guess for EDM, Ableton Live 10 is more than sufficient. I don't record stuff though. I like the Ui.
I only have NI Massive (OG one) from other stuff you wrote. Also I am big fan of FabFilter VSTs.
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splattered
Member
Holy crap it's almost unbearable in here now... the mental gymnastics are sad and kind of scary.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
PS5 solution is an AMD GPU-based compute unit stripped naked to only needed parts and modified, it works solely on Audio, leaving a great amount of room for the main GPU for visuals. I doubt it has anything to do with RAM/CPU.
XSX solution is a chip that processes the offloaded work from RAM/CPU, freeing both from that headache.
Both are very different, but Sony's is VERY critical and gives a big room for the main GPU to work more as if you've added up to 20% power by freeing the audio spot.
I hope that makes sense, you may go back to the main sources and you'll easily sum that up.
pasterpl
Member
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Xbox Series X will have a dedicated audio chip, Ninja Theory engineers reveal | VGC
Hardware acceleration could enable 3D audio…
It appears to have a dedicated audio chip
Seriously, what the hell is going on here?
PS5 solution is an AMD GPU-based compute unit stripped naked to only needed parts and modified, it works solely on Audio, leaving a great amount of room for the main GPU for visuals. I doubt it has anything to do with RAM/CPU.
XSX solution is a chip that processes the offloaded work from RAM/CPU, freeing both from that headache.
Both are very different, but Sony's is VERY critical and gives a big room for the main GPU to work more as if you've added up to 20% power by freeing the audio spot.
I hope that makes sense, you may go back to the main sources and you'll easily sum that up.
jackets with pockets
Banned
I wonder what next week will bring...
I'm hoping that the Digital Foundry Mark Cerny video interview gets released.
I'm hoping that the Digital Foundry Mark Cerny video interview gets released.
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kyliethicc
Member
The only thing I think people are confused about is the Tempest Engine in PS5. Digital Foundry said they took a Navi RDNA GPU Compute Unit and modified to act more like an SPU (like PS3 Cell) so it has no caches etc. If this is true, then Tempest Engine should be able to do audio ray tracing since it began as a RDNA 2 GPU CU.Xbox Series X will have a dedicated audio chip, Ninja Theory engineers reveal | VGC
Hardware acceleration could enable 3D audio…
It appears to have a dedicated audio chip
Seriously, what the hell is going on here?
Microsoft’s chip for XSX seems more traditional. It is discussed as freeing up CPU and memory by Ninja Theory. Nothing to do with the GPU, where audio ray tracing would be handled if the dev wanted to do it. (Reverb calculations, etc.)
IF, keyword, if the Xbox GPU has to handle any audio ray tracing because the Microsoft Audio chip doesn’t have any hardware capability to accelerate audio ray tracing, this could be the difference some are saying.
It appears as though the PS5 GPU will not need to accelerate w/ hardware any audio ray tracing IF the Tempest Engine can do that for it. I’m not sure but I think this is the debate/question.
kyliethicc
Member
The key point here is audio ray tracing. It seems the GPUs in both consoles have to do any audio RT. If the PS5 Tempest Engine (which started as a GPU CU) can do audio RT for the GPU, thus lifting that load off the GPU, it could help free up the GPU a bit. It’s unclear if XSX chip has similar capabilities or is just for normal CPU compute.
D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
They clearly say they did the SOC and API design with Microsoft... But sure if you don't believe that this GPU which is only available in the XSX is co-developed with the people selling the console, then we'll just agree to disagree even though AMD clearly says otherwise.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Now, we need to know if that Tempest CU is RDNA2, which it should be, then that's VERY possible as the RT is already integrated.
kyliethicc
Member
Which could be unique to PS5. If the GPUs would normally on both consoles have to do any HW RT, but the Tempest Engine can do that instead, and XSX audio chip can’t do RT, that’s a potential legit difference.
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
Yes, both Microsoft and Sony co-developed something with AMD, that's not a rumor that's already out there. Some features are exclusive to Sony or the otherway around and will not be in the PC market.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
XSX chip does the RAM/CPU work, PS5 does the GPU work. As simple as that.
SonGoku
Member
Hopefully RDNA2 architecture efficiencies plus any optimizations Sony added to aid bandwidth will make it a non issue or hopefully they switch to 16Gbps chips last minute
Ngl it kinda feels like bandwidth will be next gen weakness just like this gen cpu was the weak point or ram volume the gen before
The thing is the 5700xt which is less powerful has that much bandwidth and is starved in 4k.
Hopefully RDNA2 is much more efficient
Link to the video you mentioned? timestamp pretty please
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