Regarding the overheating and thermal issues rumored about the ps5, I wonder if they are still figuring out how to keep that thing cool enough even with their cooling patents with those clock speeds as noted by the thermal rumors, in fact is that possibly why they haven't shown the console's form factor? Like is that part easier to change and update later on compared to the SOC...
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Reindeer
Member
Don't be dumb, I already stated that it can be used as virtual ram, but not for any serious workload that will make up the difference like you seem to believe. You are the one coming up with dumb statements by saying that SSD will make up a lot of the difference in CPU and GPU. You believing that shows your ignorance in this matter. SSD is no replacement for CPU and GPU and it won't make up that difference. SSD will make loading and take on some lighter workload and that's where you will see difference. So if you mean it will have faster loading and maybe better LOD(although mainly for first party) then yes, but making dumb comments about it making up difference in CPU and GPU power doesn't help your cause.
Fulcizombie
Banned
Before the ps5 unveiling : no way the ps5 is 36 cu clocked at insane speeds, Cerny would never do that, he is great.
After the ps5 unveling: 36 CU at variable clock speeds, that’s amazing because.....read what Cerny said.
After the ps5 unveling: 36 CU at variable clock speeds, that’s amazing because.....read what Cerny said.
Gavin Stevens
Formerly 'o'dium'
Yup, its all down to cost and exclusives now.
First party I would usually side with Sony, but damn if MS's recent change of tact hasn't got me hopeful. They now have a shit ton of first party studios, many of which haven't shown a single thing of what they are doing for next gen yet. I remain hopeful that they have taken the last few years to prep for all this. Sony, I will give the benefit of the doubt, because while they get a bit of stick for dad walking simulators... They are bloody well GOOD dad walking simulators.
But price...? Who knows. Actually who knows... PS5 could be priced at $399 but I don't actually see it. The parts are not THAT much cheaper, and that SSD is not gonna be cheap, that's for sure... I think the consoles will be on par price wise, but I really have this odd feeling MS will undercut them for some reason. I can't put my finger on it, I just have the tingles?
First party I would usually side with Sony, but damn if MS's recent change of tact hasn't got me hopeful. They now have a shit ton of first party studios, many of which haven't shown a single thing of what they are doing for next gen yet. I remain hopeful that they have taken the last few years to prep for all this. Sony, I will give the benefit of the doubt, because while they get a bit of stick for dad walking simulators... They are bloody well GOOD dad walking simulators.
But price...? Who knows. Actually who knows... PS5 could be priced at $399 but I don't actually see it. The parts are not THAT much cheaper, and that SSD is not gonna be cheap, that's for sure... I think the consoles will be on par price wise, but I really have this odd feeling MS will undercut them for some reason. I can't put my finger on it, I just have the tingles?
MisterXDTV
Member
I have a question, I'm sorry if it was asked before...
I'm reading about Xbox Lockhart as a cheaper option coming out....
What about Xbox One X? They are killing it after less than 3 years?
Makes no sense to me, it is plenty fast for 1080p gaming
I'm reading about Xbox Lockhart as a cheaper option coming out....
What about Xbox One X? They are killing it after less than 3 years?
Makes no sense to me, it is plenty fast for 1080p gaming
Reindeer
Member
Exactly. People here claimed that Sony aren't that stupid to clock the GPU so high and now variable frequency is here to save the world apparently. The narrative always changes, at least there are few folks who don't change their opinion every 5 minutes based upon what these companies say and do.Before the ps5 unveiling : no way the ps5 is 36 cu clocked at insane speeds, Cerny would never do that, he is great.
After the ps5 unveling: 36 CU at variable clock speeds, that’s amazing because.....read what Cerny said.
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01011001
Banned
lol... Sony's own games are notorious with input lag.
I stopped playing Days Gone because of its input lag and the resulting awful aiming.
it's not only their TVs
Fake
Member
I saw the Digital Foundry PS5 specs once again. Are the Ryzen from PS5 don't have SMT?
/s
Right... I believe you...
/s
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M-V2
Member
The problem is that I have seen you since yesterday trying to downplay whenever people talk postivily about the PS5 but whatever, let me make itclear, you wouldn't understand anything about RT without a tech demo, that's why MS showed a tech demo of Minecraft in RT.
As for Sony they will show you that as soon as they present their machine in proper way, they will show a tech demo on how RT runs on their machine.
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ethomaz
Banned
It has SMT... it is the official specs.I saw the Digital Foundry PS5 specs once again. Are the Ryzen from PS5 don't have SMT?
Right... I believe you...
/s
CJY
Banned
Nobody said anything about an SSD making up for the difference in GPU power. Those words have never been uttered by me. It's a completely different aspect of the system and PS5 SSD solution appears to vastly superior to the XSX, but who cares? Nothing matters without seeing the price and games.
One thing I do know is that XSX having a faster GPU doesn't mean jack and won't allow for anything game-related that PS5 won't be capable of. Another thing I know is that the faster SSD does have massive potential to revolutionise game creation, development and how a dev can conceptualize game worlds. Adding to this, it's on Xbox that the SSD will only facilitate faster load times, because devs will be held back by games having to run on Xbone and it's slower IO and you say only 1st parties on Sony's side will take advantage of PS5 like this is some sort of shortcoming. It's not like Sony have the biggest, most, best studios in the whole industry. No, not at all.
Well I have to say I am really looking forward to the PS5, I was expecting an RDNA 1 with 9.2TF and would have been really happy but even happier with whats coming. Gaming is going to me so much more immersive with the worlds they will be able to create with eth bandwidth available.
Come on preorders.
Come on preorders.
Fulcizombie
Banned
Meh, ps5 is not strong enough to have proper Ray tracing anyway. RT is a hog and even the XSX will have issues with it.
Fake
Member
So, DF missed? Thats a relief. Gonna see the page right now.
01011001
Banned
oh come the fuck on... are we still in petty fanboy mode in here?
Dodkrake
Banned
PC games do this all the time.
Fake
Member
Gonna be the second time at row you call someone fanboy.
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
Fair to say, they got Ninja Theory and put them to work on a fucking hero shooter which no one cares about. Hellblade 2 then... yeah, good luck with dealing with that ending without bullshitting the whole story. No surprise they went Project Mara which is probably the true evolution of what they would do from Hellblade without doing a sequel.
Their team management is awfull, from Crackdown to Scalebound, to the way they stalemated Halo and Gears which were absolute pillars of gaming. Hey, if they pull it off good for everyone, but compared to many other producers Sony is on another level, it takes a lot to reach it, MS taking studios do not amaze me more than EA acquiring new studios: ok, then what?
Let's see.
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M.Night Shyamalan
Member
fuck a PS5 Pro in 2024, Sony will melt our eyes at launch and even the next few years.
Firstly... Killzone ShadowFall may be a garbage Killzone, but that game was beautiful as fuck for a launch game. As was Infamous Second Son.
Let's not even go to how ND has TLOU2 on a base 1.84TF 2013 machine and how Ghosts is running as a late current gen game. Sony's exclusives will blow us away, and nothing on the Xbox One X came close visually. Besides all that.. Im hard pressed to get excited about other Generation Z direction Microsoft's game direction is heading. Not into abseilling Gears and some riding jet ski's, or Master Chief flying around spidey style in his 2 ton armor. Theres more to next gen than graphics... but rest assured Sony will blow us away on all fronts. They've done it this gen with a GPU on a stick.
Shmunter
Member
It’s ok bro. Higher concept stuff is not for everyone to ‘get’
I’m sure in time there will be plenty of videos online that explain it in a easily digestible way with pictures etc. that may help.
Reindeer
Member
I'm not downplaying playing, I'm just stating facts, 15-20% difference in power at best for PS5. And I'm also replying to people who live in fantasy world and believe that SSD is somewhat gonna be replacing that GPU and CPU difference. Some folks here are in denial about certain things after their expectations were much higher.
The Mad Draklor
Member
Fixed for better accuracy.
That is the difference in teraflops. Teraflops are not the only metric for performance. Otherwise, AMD GPUs would've been crushing Nvidia GPUs a long time ago.
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Fake
Member
OK. I import that picture from reddit, thats explain why is outdated. The DF ps5 page have indeed update to mention SMT.
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CJY
Banned
The people who don't change their views and opinions based on new facts and information are the fools. Let's not confuse stubbornness with open-mindedness. The vast majority of people were OK with PS5 being ~10TF before the announcement. Hoped for more, but were OK with it. Nobody is freaking out about the PS5's specs.
01011001
Banned
well I don't see any other way to take you reaction to an honest criticism of a game.
just dismissing it with a snarky remark.
input lag is the worst for me and I want it reduced as much as possible.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Given Sony's rare show and tell events, which for every tech company is going to be videos until corona disappears, I'll estimae Sony's next digital show will be around E3 when all the game companies will probably do their own off-site video. Whether it's a live event or pre-canned videos who knows. But if Sony just did a reveal yesterday, you aren't going to get more hands on reveal videos next week.
Same goes for MS. They blew their load in a detailed reveal Monday. You won't get any more detailed info for months.
It's already close to end of March. Aside from maybe some drips and drabs, most game companies will probably do their splashy videos around E3 time.
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ethomaz
Banned
Yeap they did mistook it I guess.
Nice catch... so they updated.
But of course a lot of poster here in GAF are saying the CPU is only 8 cores without SMT... I already corrected give people since yesterday even so some continue saying 8C/8T.
When Cerny talked about the CPU last year he already said 8C/16T.
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Reindeer
Member
SMH. Not sure what AMD teraflops have to do anything Nvidia teraflops when we are talking about 2 AMD GPU teraflops using the same architecture. Nice try to move the goal posts. Teraflops matter when it comes to same architecture, they only don't matter when we talking about different architectures.
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PocoJoe
Banned
Some are wondering that why PS5 super speed SSD would be anything special vs PC:
How do you replicate a game build from ground up to use the full speed of PS5 SSD with PC?
"b-bbbut PCs have SSDs!" you answer
PCs also have slow ass HDDs, slow old SSDs, "slow" SSDs and maybe less than 1% have fastest SSDs available, and even those wont have the same specs as PS5 ssd which is optimized and build for speeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed.
So, how do you make a game for PC which similar usage of SSD as PS5 could in theory have?
Answer is: you cant, you wont.
On PC world devs have to think the lowest system they want to sell the game for, and most of PC gamers wont have that cutting edge 3000€, or even 1000€ PC.
Dunno if xbox SSD is also as optimized (like PS5 presentation told that they thought all the levels of datatransver, to remove bottle necks) or is it just a PC equivalent
How do you replicate a game build from ground up to use the full speed of PS5 SSD with PC?
"b-bbbut PCs have SSDs!" you answer
PCs also have slow ass HDDs, slow old SSDs, "slow" SSDs and maybe less than 1% have fastest SSDs available, and even those wont have the same specs as PS5 ssd which is optimized and build for speeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed.
So, how do you make a game for PC which similar usage of SSD as PS5 could in theory have?
Answer is: you cant, you wont.
On PC world devs have to think the lowest system they want to sell the game for, and most of PC gamers wont have that cutting edge 3000€, or even 1000€ PC.
Dunno if xbox SSD is also as optimized (like PS5 presentation told that they thought all the levels of datatransver, to remove bottle necks) or is it just a PC equivalent
geordiemp
Member
I think how people think of Ps5s solution very much depends on price of ps5 and Series X. If series X is US$ 600 and Ps5 is US$ 400, Cerny will be hailed a master for working with not much.
If XSX is same price as Ps5, Cerny will be looked on as the guy heading up very poor design decsions and spending too much time on less important factors. Yes SSD is nice, so is sound but XSX has both those albient not as fancy.
If the difference is detail on ray tracing at 4k60 I wont care, if its reconstruction to get to 4k60 and no ray tracing then priorities were not aligned right IMO
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Fatal Enigma
Member
Weird, I was 100% spot on pre-cerny deep dive. I must be an "insider"
Fulcizombie
Banned
Thank God that Cerny came to explain to you why so few CU and variable clock speeds are great.
Shmunter
Member
The 3rd party conundrum is real, no doubt about it. 3rd party may not use ssd advantage at all should it exclude millions of HDD pc users out there.
I posted somewhere that a focus on ssd by 3rd party may require platform holder moneyhatting. Pay them part of the dev costs for their game in exchange for targeting the platform, etc.
ethomaz
Banned
PC developer never tried to take advantage from the SSDs.
It was just some minor improvements in loading that are automatically gains when you use a SSD.
Now console devs will start to use faster SSDs to build their games from the ground... that will probably affect PC games too for good and for bad (people with slow HDD will have a hard time now).
BTW with the new generation the minimum/recommended specs on PC games for HDD/SSD will receive a boom.
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Reindeer
Member
Focusing most of his time on SSD was smart move since that's the only part that's faster on PS5. It actually worked too since you got so many people believing all kinds of stuff about that SSD.
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gamerforever
Banned
I just think this whole deep dive was not even needed. They should have just shown the PS5 games and the advantages of the SSD in realtime and announced a price. This deep dive has made things worse and there will be a lot of negative coverage, even by casual media. It shocks me how amateur Sony's strategy is. If they wanted to do a technical showcase, then keep it low and don't announce it on twitter so millions of casuals watch it expecting great things. Microsoft have really shown Sony up and embarassed them. Most of Sony's embarassment is their own making and they could easily have presented the console in a better way. Why start going on about upclocking and frequencies? We all know why this has been done i.e. rush job after seeing their paltry 9.2TF compared to the Series X's 12.1TF.
M-V2
Member
We're not saying Xbox isn't powerful, it's indeed more powerful than the ps5 in 15-20% at maximum BUT you know SOME games perform better on PS4 pro than the Xbox X, which the difference between them are 40-50%, so the raw numbers aren't everything until we see irl comparison
Mod of War why I can not report people anymore? All previous ones were valid imo. is it because I did too many times?
You were spamming reports with "FUD" from what I gather.
Not every bit of criticism warrants action.
The Mad Draklor
Member
The GPU's use the same microarchitecture, but as Cerny said, a higher clocked 36 CU GPU performs better than a lower clocked 42 CU GPU because the higher clockspeeds have a trickle down effect to other aspects such as L1/L2 caches speeds and rasterization speeds. Having a dedicated SPU-like chip for audio helps offload audio processing from the GPU. When AMD talked about SmartShift, they said that it gives a free 10% boost in performance to devices over those who do not use SmartShift. Offloading in favor to the GPU and CPU is important because not all games are created equal. We have seen with games like Assassin's Creed Unity being more CPU intensive than GPU intensive, which was why the XB1 version actually performed better than the PS4 version.
Note how I actually paid attention to the fine details and even cite old games as examples. What do you have to back up your points? Unfounded assertions ad nauseaum.
Dabaus
Banned
Ok,heres some thoughts after giving it a day....Its not that the PS5 is disappointing, it truly is a next gen leap
-with the new Ryzen CPU,
-Even at just 9.95-10.2 tflops because of variance its still almost a 7 times leap of power over the base ps4 with RDNA 2 benefits factored in
-Super fast SSD
- Twice the amount of RAM thats also faster as well.
-4K Blu ray player and 3d audio
In a vacuum its actually a very good system and IS a next generation leap. HOWEVER, the problem is that we're not in a vacuum, it is going to be compared to the Series X. Had sony come out earlier and announced these specs BEFORE 12 teraflops became the baseline they would be fine. 10.2 teraflops is a good number, 12 teraflops while awesome wouldnt have the same effect if 10 was already the baseline. But now sony is on the back foot in the power narrative, their silence is still deafening and comes across as either aloof or arrogant, messaging is a mess in regard to backwards compatibility.
What im saying is, the PS5 is a good system but the way sony is handling it makes it seem worse than it really is. SHOW us why the SSD is a "dream" fro developers, SHOW us that hey this thing can run games, third party games even at 60 fps. It can be a 10 second clip, it doesnt have to be this grand affair. Its not a PS3 or xbox one disaster, but it does put them on the back foot and sony seems to still be in autopilot mode. They seem to think that their base will stick with them no matter what, and if it had full BC i would say their right, but thats not clear as of now. We dont know prices nut i will say IF this thing is 399 sony is going to be ok in spite of themselves.
We dont have the full picture yet either. I dont care how people spin or what they say, IF lockheart is real it is going to hold the series x back in some ways. A theoretical 4 tf gpu vs 12, less ram, and weaker cpu are going to hinder game design in some way. I dont care what some paid xbox dev shill says. Lockheart is going to be an anchor around the Xs neck in my opinion. That could be a boon to sony in some ways if their first party really takes Advantage of not having any restraints in that regard and perhaps sign a few 3rd party deals to show WHY a super fast SSD matters.
Im sure ill have more thoughts on this later.
-with the new Ryzen CPU,
-Even at just 9.95-10.2 tflops because of variance its still almost a 7 times leap of power over the base ps4 with RDNA 2 benefits factored in
-Super fast SSD
- Twice the amount of RAM thats also faster as well.
-4K Blu ray player and 3d audio
In a vacuum its actually a very good system and IS a next generation leap. HOWEVER, the problem is that we're not in a vacuum, it is going to be compared to the Series X. Had sony come out earlier and announced these specs BEFORE 12 teraflops became the baseline they would be fine. 10.2 teraflops is a good number, 12 teraflops while awesome wouldnt have the same effect if 10 was already the baseline. But now sony is on the back foot in the power narrative, their silence is still deafening and comes across as either aloof or arrogant, messaging is a mess in regard to backwards compatibility.
What im saying is, the PS5 is a good system but the way sony is handling it makes it seem worse than it really is. SHOW us why the SSD is a "dream" fro developers, SHOW us that hey this thing can run games, third party games even at 60 fps. It can be a 10 second clip, it doesnt have to be this grand affair. Its not a PS3 or xbox one disaster, but it does put them on the back foot and sony seems to still be in autopilot mode. They seem to think that their base will stick with them no matter what, and if it had full BC i would say their right, but thats not clear as of now. We dont know prices nut i will say IF this thing is 399 sony is going to be ok in spite of themselves.
We dont have the full picture yet either. I dont care how people spin or what they say, IF lockheart is real it is going to hold the series x back in some ways. A theoretical 4 tf gpu vs 12, less ram, and weaker cpu are going to hinder game design in some way. I dont care what some paid xbox dev shill says. Lockheart is going to be an anchor around the Xs neck in my opinion. That could be a boon to sony in some ways if their first party really takes Advantage of not having any restraints in that regard and perhaps sign a few 3rd party deals to show WHY a super fast SSD matters.
Im sure ill have more thoughts on this later.
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Fake
Member
I'll get PS5, just not day one and you can thank Sony for that. Maybe when PS5 BC get more mature.
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
Hard to say the least.
You can't properly play with HDDs something designed with SSDs, people will need to do the jump. Maybe not at the end of this year, but soon.
Darius87
Member
i'm not trying to moderate or anything sorry for inconvenience but more then arguing with fake insiders i've wanted to summon you and ask about these fake insiders who got theyr info wrong all this time feeding theyr bs to us riddles, pigeons nonsense so what actions against them would be taken and when? you already stated that you'll do something about it if they got it wrong. thank you.
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The Mad Draklor
Member
Great job with the strawman fallacy.
CJY
Banned
Totally right. Also all Xbox games will be coming to PC where mechanical HDs are rife. The only PC game I am aware of that requires an SSD is Star Citizen. XSX games will be hampered by both Xbone and PC for the foreseeable future. That's why Xbox guys are trying to downplay the SSD and how revolutionary it is going to be. Even Dark1x, (John Linneman) is super excited about the potential of the PS5's SSD and it was the primary focus of Cerny's concept. It just should not be underestimated the impact it will have on game creation and the kinds of games we'll be seeing.
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