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[zelas]

The games aren't hard, they just require a certain amount of focus and patience a lot of people aren't willing to provide.

With that said, these games are known quantities and sell to a relatively small and dedicated fanbase. Most people buying these games are fans of the franchise who are capable of beating these games. These numbers mean little when it comes to the mainstream market.

 

[Alexander DeLarge]

Why does everyone want an easy mode? Sometimes you just gotta step back and say "this one isn't for me" or "I don't have the time to learn" like I did with grand strategy and APM-based real time strategy.

 

[sTiTcH AU]

Why does everyone want an easy mode? Sometimes you just gotta step back and say "this one isn't for me" or "I don't have the time to learn" like I did with grand strategy and APM-based real time strategy.

I have done exactly that with the souls series. I have attempted to play DS1-3 and bloodborne but I just dont have the patience for the games and there was nothing to grab me to continue to learn.

Most recent game for that to happen to me was Prey, I wasn't feeling it at the beginning but last night something clicked and i played for 3hrs straight.

The dark souls series does not need an easy mode, it just isn't for everyone. You can be a hardcore gamer and not like Dark souls, its OK.

 

[brickarts295]

I pretty much cheese through the souls games thanks to overleveling by playing in other people's games and using summons to carry me towards the nearest bonefire or boss. That has been easy mode for me since DS2.

Bloodborne is the only one where I had a bit of confidence and played a lot of the latter levels solo.

 

[Melchiah]

A) Completely different audiences.
B) Not everyone syncs trophies.

Doesn't it sync automatically, when it uploads save files to the server?

 

[Death Penalty]

So like, beyond "games don't have to be for everyone" what logical argument actually exists for not including an easy mode provided the standard mode maintains the same level of quality? I honestly can't see a downside.

 

[Ooccoo]

Souls aren't too hard: most other games are too easy.

Devs have a hard time striking a balance between the two.

 

[Melchiah]

So like, beyond "games don't have to be for everyone" what logical argument actually exists for not including an easy mode provided the standard mode maintains the same level of quality? I honestly can't see a downside.

You can already summon NPC or other player to help, even outside of bosses. That's the easy mode.

 

[Wagram]

Magic exists and so does co-op. I don't really think trophy percentages can be used to measure overall difficulty level. However, I do think they indicate that these bosses aren't impossible, even if you may need to call for help.

 

[Corpekata]

Yeah reading into this reeks of a bit of confirmation bias. Souls attracts a more dedicated and hardcore audience. The fact that all 3 endings are above 33 percent is astounding in the first place. One of those endings requires either some extreme patience, luck, or reading a guide and is unlikely to be completed in a first playthrough. You'd be lucky to see in most games 33 percent getting an an ending period.

Not saying I think they are too hard, but it's an odd data to try to draw conclusions from.

 

[NoctisVsStar]

So like, beyond "games don't have to be for everyone" what logical argument actually exists for not including an easy mode provided the standard mode maintains the same level of quality? I honestly can't see a downside.

The experience is lessened.. now you might argue "how so? When the standard mode remains?" Well the game is known for challenging obstacles so you're robbing that player that exp of triumph when you could otherwise flip the difficulty when shit got tough.

The aura and the allure of these games are that.. granted the difficulty aspect is overblown people just don't patience.

 

[Death Penalty]

You can already summon NPC or other player to help, even outside of bosses. That's the easy mode.

That strikes me less as an argument against a standardized easy mode and more pointing out that there's a really clunky substitution in place. I get what you're saying, but what I was trying to say a bit less eloquently was that if there was an easy mode implemented it would have no real downside.

The experience is lessened.. now you might argue "how so? When the standard mode remains?" Well the game is known for challenging obstacles so you're robbing that player that exp of triumph when you could otherwise flip the difficulty when shit got tough.

But... the standard mode doesn't go away. Any player who really really wanted to play the standard mode would still have the option. If someone takes advantage of the easy mode instead, they can always go back if they felt like they lost out on real achievement. That doesn't seem very likely to me, though.

 

[Kthulhu]

The experience is lessened.. now you might argue "how so? When the standard mode remains?" Well the game is known for challenging obstacles so you're robbing that player that exp of triumph when you could otherwise flip the difficulty when shit got tough.

The aura and the allure of these games are that.. granted the difficulty aspect is overblown people just don't patience.

But you don't have to do that. Who cares if someone does?

I'm not asking for Dark Souls to have an easy mode, but as long as it was separate from the main game I don't see why people are so against it.

 

[NoctisVsStar]

But... the standard mode doesn't go away. Any player who really really wanted to play the standard mode would still have the option. If someone takes advantage of the easy mode instead, they can always go back if they felt like they lost out on real achievement. That doesn't seem very likely to me, though.

It's hard to debate this, both side got their merits I just personally feel it cheapens the game. SFV dumbed it down to make it more accessible for folks having trouble with combos and whatnot it made the game more straightforward and basic. The action is easier to follow now..there's hype moments but the game is a bit tad boring as a result.. different situations souls and FG but that's one of the drawbacks that happens at times.

 

[Seyfert]

I think the one who think they didn't stand a chance wouldn't buy it in first place so trophy stat are wrong.

 

[Death Penalty]

But you don't have to do that. Who cares if someone does?

I'm not asking for Dark Souls to have an easy mode, but as long as it was separate from the main game I don't see why people are so against it.

You said it better than me. I would always choose to play the standard mode with as much as I've come to love the series as it currently is, but if an easy mode was implemented my reaction would be "Oh, that'll be nice for some people" and not "Ugh gross not how it's meant to be played blatant elitism etc. etc." It's not something it would even occur to me to fight.

It's hard to debate this, both side got their merits I just personally feel it cheapens the game. SFV dumbed it down to make it more accessible for folks having trouble with combos and whatnot it made the game more straightforward and basic. The action is easier to follow now there's hype moments but the game is a bit tad boring as a result.. diffident situations souls and FG but that's one of the drawbacks that happens at times.

I guess I understand this concern but with two different modes it wouldn't really apply to Souls, would it? I also understand that you would personally feel that an easier Souls would be a much less valuable experience. I tend to agree. But if someone else would like it better that way, I'm okay with that, too, and I'd be happy for them that they had the mode. That's really all I'm saying.

 

[RedAssedApe]

these percentages don't tell you anything if you don't have information about whose actually playing the game.

 

[Kthulhu]

It's hard to debate this, both side got their merits I just personally feel it cheapens the game. SFV dumbed it down to make it more accessible for folks having trouble with combos and whatnot it made the game more straightforward and basic. The action is easier to follow now there's hype moments but the game is a bit tad boring as a result.. diffident situations souls and FG but that's one of the drawbacks that happens at times.

If the easy mode was separate, then this problem doesn't happen.

Also side note, you can make fighting games more accessible to newcomers without sacrificing competitive play. Not saying SFV is how to do it, but it can be done.

 

[Yawnny]

It's because none of their trophies require NG+ and beyond. They're all very obtainable and aren't one of the main reasons when discussing the soulsborne difficulty.

 

[NoctisVsStar]

If the easy mode was separate, then this problem doesn't happen.

Also side note, you can make fighting games more accessible to newcomers without sacrificing competitive play. Not saying SFV is how to do it, but it can be done.

Yeah, SFV went about it the wrong way.. there's already push back with MVCI let's see how that plays out.

At best I'm willing to concede that perhaps a tutorial of sorts could be used for souls games since the game just throws you out to the wolves.

 

[texhnolyze]

If the easy mode was separate, then this problem doesn't happen.

Yeah, people seem couldn't see it this far.

Easy mode won't affect your high and mighty true Souls experience at all, as those plebs will be playing on a separate server. This kind of system is actually already in place on PC version of Dark Souls 2 and 3, where cheaters are thrown into cheaters server so they won't affect legit players.

 

[KahooTs]

I think the developers of all these games in the OP should look at what the OP has presented as a failure on their part. Assuming the numbers do actually represent people who were genuinely interested in completing their game but did not do so.

 

[JudgmentJay]

Yeah, people seem couldn't see it this far.

Easy mode won't affect your high and mighty true Souls experience at all, as those plebs will be playing on a separate server. This kind of system is actually already in place on PC version of Dark Souls 2 and 3, where cheaters are thrown into cheaters server so they won't affect legit players.

Splitting an already somewhat sparse online community and making invasions and co-op even harder to come by would absolutely affect my high and mighty true Souls experience.

 

[cyber_ninja]

Also -souls should have an easy mode

Fuck no. Want it easy? Play something else. Not trying to be a dick or offend you.

 

[Melchiah]

That strikes me less as an argument against a standardized easy mode and more pointing out that there's a really clunky substitution in place. I get what you're saying, but what I was trying to say a bit less eloquently was that if there was an easy mode implemented it would have no real downside.

It's not clunky. You summon help, and it appears in a matter of seconds in Dark Souls 3. Summoning other player may take a while in Bloodborne these days though. There are NPC summon signs for a bit of help, and player summons for those parts you can't beat even with a NPC companion.

I don't think the easy mode would help people get into the Souls games, if they don't have the patience for them now. Unless they want the easy mode to also entail the loss of XP currency on death being removed, and being respawned right where you died.

 

[texhnolyze]

Splitting an already somewhat sparse online community and making invasions and co-op even harder to come by would absolutely affect my high and mighty true Souls experience.

Good point.

I've been thinking about that as well, actually. While the percentage might probably won't be that high, some core players would probably choose the easy mode so they can play with their friends. Or maybe they could just invite them to the normal mode and help them get better instead. Also, easy mode players might find the mode too easy for them at some point (or after they beat the game) and proceed to the normal mode. And with the game being more open to more audience, the community might probably get more active than ever. So many possibilities, tbh.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

The most important argument against easy mode is that without the need to summon for help, less people would go online. This would lower the online population giving you less people to invade and/or help. For those of us who find the online aspect of this games a huge part of the appeal, that would be a very negative consequence.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

While those numbers aren't scientifically fool-proof, they are still an interesting indicator. Thanks for the stats OP.

I'd say the completion purcentage on this game doesn't mean anything, you can coop on every bosses, with 1 or 2 other players... And playing it that way, those games become easier than 90% of other games.

...That's exactly the point of the OP, who said this game doesn't need an easy mode because see, people are beating the game just fine, and summons exist anyway.

It's like most of you aren't even reading the OP...

 

[Melchiah]

The most important argument against easy mode is that without the need to summon for help, less people would go online. This would lower the online population giving you less people to invade and/or help. For those of us who find the online aspect of this games a huge part of the appeal, that would be a very negative consequence.

Personally, I played these games always offline. If I need to summon help, I just go online for the boss, and then back to offline again. So, a player like me isn't available to invade now either.

 

[texhnolyze]

Personally, I played these games always offline. If I need to summon help, I just go online for the boss, and then back to offline again. So, a player like me isn't available to invade now either.

I played all of my Souls games offline as well. And when I need help with bosses, I'll summon an NPC instead. They're not too OP like some seasoned players anyway (and they die a lot), so the bosses will still be challenging at least.

 

[HK-47]

Play offline and summon. There is your easy mode.

 

[DrSlek]

If you want an easy mode, download a trainer.....like I did.

No regrets other than buying the game in the first place.

 

[Zee-Row]

People say they're NES level hard but they really aren't. People are just too used to modern games holding their hands.

 

[tsundoku]

dark souls has always always always had an easy mode baked in
you can farm for levels
weapon upgrades
get sorceries hexes miracles and pyromancy
you can summon

 

[KnightimeX_Legacy]

All I know is that if I put easy mode in my game people will still buy it unconditionally.
Some of the nay sayers will even use cheats in secrecy but will say they don't like them on forums.

Even if Dark Souls got an easy mode the most hardcore person against the concept will STILL get the game. Probably even day 1 as per usual.

If I was a dev I would say I "heard" the opinions of the players.
I would put it in anyways.

Gamers know how to use or not use what they have optional access to.

BUT THAT'S JUST ME.
If I was a developer of course.

 

[Melchiah]

I played all of my Souls games offline as well. And when I need help with bosses, I'll summon an NPC instead. They're not too OP like some seasoned players anyway (and they die a lot), so the bosses will still be challenging at least.

I only summoned other players for the Ihyll chalice dungeon bosses in Bloodborne, and the Nameless King and DLC bosses in DS3. Usually NPCs are enough. Although, at release there was no NPC help available in Bloodborne, so I beat the main game without it.

 

[GHG]

If you make a compelling experience then people will actually take the effort to complete your game.

Who knew?

 

[vocab]

With enough effort and even with summoning, anyone can beat them. Bloodborne was incredibly easy. Armor didnt matter and itemization was pretty straight forward.

 

[Trojan]

Souls games attract the hardcore. If there was data that showed what the demographics look like, I'm sure it would show that the majority of those playing are avid gamers looking for a challenge like this and know what they're getting into.

Trophy information is just a data point, I wouldn't extrapolate too much from it.

 

[Evil Monkey DTT]

I really do blame the souls community for pretending these games were impossible. So many people I know refused to stick with it because "well no one can beat it". I got laughed at for calling them tough but fair.

 

[Tecnniqe]

I'm willing to bet DS got a more hard core audience over time willing to spend the time it takes to beat it than the average gamers would more than it directly having anything to do with difficulty compared to other games and genres.

And for those saying it doesn't need a easy mode, where is the harm in adding it in as a option you don't even have to use? Allowing more people to play, enjoy and in turn a potential increase in sale due to a optional accessibility option is beneficial for everyone.

 

[GHG]

I'm willing to bet DS got a more hard core audioence over time willing to spend the time it takes to beat it than the average games would more than it directly having anything to do with difficulty compared to other games and genres.

And for those saying it doesn't need a easy mode, where is the harm in adding it in as a option you don't even have to use? Allowing more people to play, enjoy and in turn a potential increase in sale due to a optional accessibility option is beneficial for everyone.

Do you play these games? The easy mode already exists. It's called summoning.

 

[Tecnniqe]

Do you play these games? The easy mode already exists. It's called summoning.

I do play them. I play without summoning but I use it to help others in both boss and PVP fights when I want some fun, however I'm not calling that an easy mode as it's not what I mean by adding an easy mode.

 

[GHG]

I do play them. I play without summoning but I use it to help others in both boss and PVP fights when I want some fun, however I'm not calling that an easy mode as it's not what I mean by it and it requires someone else while the game can be played offline.

There are still offline NPC summons.

 

[Tecnniqe]

There are still offline NPC summons.

Yeah I removed it because I realized that. Still, point being there. I find summoned AI meh but I still see no issues in adding more ways even as simple if you die 5 times in a row it gives you a buff and for every death after it keeps increasing your stats until you make it. All optional of course.

I just dont see the argument against it as it won't affect you.

 

[texhnolyze]

There are still offline NPC summons.

Which is not always available and pretty limited. Traversing the world is equally challenging as fighting the bosses in Souls games, in my opinion.

 

[Tecnniqe]

Which is not always available and pretty limited. Traversing the world is equally challenging as fighting the bosses in Souls games, in my opinion.

If anything in some areas the world is worse than the boss

 

[Vanadium]

Too hard? No, the game design really keeps you asking for more. I get all the trophies to like 90% completion except for spells, rings, etc.. Just not worth the grind at that level for me. In comparison, I'll play an Uncharted game on hard then Crushing for like 40% completion and never go back again.

 

[GHG]

Yeah I removed it because I realized that. Still, point being there. I find summoned AI meh but I still see no issues in adding more ways even as simple if you die 5 times in a row it gives you a buff and for every death after it keeps increasing your stats until you make it. All optional of course.

I just dont see the argument against it as it won't affect you.

Those "buffs" you describe are called levelling up or special items/spells you can find.

As for the enemies on the way back to the boss being an obstacle... Find the shortcut and run, it's pretty simple really.

 

[Killer Queen]

Plus the series introduced a lot of changes (improvements) for the sake of mainstream accessibility- immediate fast travel, localized merchants, streamlined weapon upgrading, etc. None of that permanent health bar reduction curse shit past the first game. All of which I'm personally thankful for.

Bloodborne had like half the stats available compared to other Souls games, and a fraction of the weapons. NPC summons were later patched in. And even then, there's an unofficial easy mode by the name of "Ludwig's Holy Blade".

I don't like the way you're talking to me