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Dad gets nearly $8,000 bill after son racks up charges from microtransactions in FIFA

Well first of all I never got a shit ton of money for beating TMNT.

Money. That is how the mentality is different. The reward is money.

So then, how would microtransactions cause the current generation of children to be addicted to gambling? There's no monetary rewards involved in microtransactions either.
 

data

Member
I was pissed at my little brother for buying an €8 game I already had on PS+, can't even imagine how I'd feel if my son (if I had one) spent that much on the game. rip 8k cdn$
 

Clockwork5

Member
So then, how would microtransactions cause the current generation of children to be addicted to gambling? There's no monetary rewards involved in microtransactions either.

I don't believe there is a causal relationship. I must have missed a post somewhere... I think we agree with each other.

Just to be clear, equating micro transactions and quarter arcades to gambling addictions does not give justice to how self destructive and out of control gambling addicts can be.

Edit.

The son is lying, but he probably needs to seek help. This sounds like a bad gambling addiction.

Right on que :)
 

bootski

Member
i'd also like to add, as i saw it posted earlier in the thread that this tactic that the father/son are using will almost certainly work. it's drawn enough attention now in north american press that either MS or EA will buckle and cover at least some of it, if not all.

thankfully, it's unlikely to produce any sort of nonsense kickback to the rest of us as MS/EA is banking so much cash off this tcg that CDN$8k is peanuts.
 
I love when this stuff happens because it makes me feel better about any poor purchases I've made.

The kid is obviously bullshitting about not knowing though, which was probably his game plan all along to get out of the bill. Dad probably knows it's his only hope too which is why he's going along with it.
 
I don't play FIFA but I literally cannot imagine a scenario where that kid didn't know what he was doing. I mean, maybe he thought he might have only spend a few G's, but I don't buy for one second he didn't know what was going on.
 

bootski

Member
I think we do too. I'm trying to carry on two or three sub-conversations with different people and some posts are crossing over. :)

from what i can gather, some people are associating the behavior the kid displayed with a gambling issue, which it is. some saying that isn't gambling because money can't be won which is wrong on two counts 1) you don't have to win money for it to be considered gambling and 2) money has nothing to do with an actual gambler's high. it's a process addiction in that the actual act of gambling, in this case opening the booster packs to see the cards, is where the joy is derived from. the "win" here isn't a large sum of money, like a slot machine, but a rare player card.
 

Clockwork5

Member
from what i can gather, some people are associating the behavior the kid displayed with a gambling issue, which it is. some saying that isn't gambling because money can't be won which is wrong on two counts 1) you don't have to win money for it to be considered gambling and 2) money has nothing to do with an actual gambler's high. it's a process addiction in that the actual act of gambling, in this case opening the booster packs to see the cards, is where the joy is derived from. the "win" here isn't a large sum of money, like a slot machine, but a rare player card.


I guess I can see a similarity there.
 
from what i can gather, some people are associating the behavior the kid displayed with a gambling issue, which it is.

How in the world could we possibly know for sure if its a gambling addiction? We know nothing about this kid. We've never met him, we've never spoken to him. Trying to label him with something as multifaceted as being an addict is beyond the abilities of anyone present, and more importantly, it's not fair to the kid.
 

Teeth

Member
from what i can gather, some people are associating the behavior the kid displayed with a gambling issue, which it is. some saying that isn't gambling because money can't be won which is wrong on two counts 1) you don't have to win money for it to be considered gambling and 2) money has nothing to do with an actual gambler's high. it's a process addiction in that the actual act of gambling, in this case opening the booster packs to see the cards, is where the joy is derived from. the "win" here isn't a large sum of money, like a slot machine, but a rare player card.

Can I get a gambler's high from buying a different decrepit item on the menu each time I go to Taco Bell, hoping that it's going to become my new favourite dish?

Can I get a gambler's high every time I post on GAF in hope that someone quotes me?

Using a randomized possible good event from a repeatable action cast one giant net over the possibility of human actions.

The thing about "winning" is that it's classified based on the value the user puts into it. Money is a pretty broad winning condition because it allows the user to change it out for almost literally anything.
Getting a thick legged pretty FIFA player card that you can utilize to increase numbers in a meaningless number increasing game only has the value that the user puts into it, which, if appropriately adjusted, should be next to nil. Falling into the "addiction" trap in a game like this is, well, pretty stupid.

We already know the kid is lying (or his father is) because he said he didn't know he was making purchases, which would take someone with authentically low intelligence to do. It's more likely that he thought he wouldn't get caught or that his dad wouldn't notice because he has a terrible idea of money (obviously).

If anything, this isn't a predatory practice, it's a fine lesson in economics and self control. The 17 year old can get a lovely job hauling drywall and pay back this $8000 by summer. I have no doubt that he's living at home for free, so it shouldn't be too hard to work it off with zero expenses.
 

Yagharek

Member
We as a species do not need more coddling... it's slowly making us dumb and dependent on outside forces to help us run our own lives.

There's lessons to be learned in life about credit cards, money, children, financial responsibility, and overspending.

We as a species don't need to encourage predatory consumer practices that take advantage of kids or compulsive buyers.

It just makes corporations less accountable and more likely to test more odious practices sooner.
 
Fifa is a series full of scum, from the blood sucking devs to the scamming player base

got my account info stolen and spent on some fucking ultimate team shit on the 360. had to call ms to get my money back
 
...?

You've completely missed the point.

No, I didn't. You tried to propose a hypothetical world where cutting people off at the point of ridiculousness would mean that digital media can't be sold. Reality conflicts with that fantasy world because we live in a reality where cut off points don't grind sales to a halt.

You can't buy your FIFA digital cards to death.

Buying FIFA digital cards doesn't decrease your ability to judge whether you can or should buy more FIFA cards or punch the person next to you.

You think financial ruin and destitution doesn't hurt people.
 

Teeth

Member
We as a species don't need to encourage predatory consumer practices that take advantage of kids or compulsive buyers.

It just makes corporations less accountable and more likely to test more odious practices sooner.

How is it predatory? What child has money to spend that their parents didn't give them?

If I offer you the infinite time deal to pay me $5 to have a one in one hundred shot of me drawing you an MS Paint picture, is that a predatory practice?

You can pay me any number of sums of $5, and I will continue to draw you a picture at least one out of every hundred times.

You think financial ruin and destitution doesn't hurt people.

Your credit card caps at a specific amount that you can pay back in sums.
Purchasing more junk doesn't decrease your ability to judge whether you should purchase more junk. It also doesn't put you at risk of directly hurting others.
EA isn't able to tell how much money you spend is going to hurt you. 7 million can't hurt Jay Z.

"Remember to take a 30 minute break for every hour you spend purchasing FIFA Super Cards, you don't want to hurt yourself!"
 

Kent

Member
I'm curious as to how things would unfold if the kid were to have to demonstrate the purchasing process to his dad.

You know, to show that he simply wasn't aware he was making real-money purchases.
 
Yeah like everyone else has said, every in-game purchase takes you to a screen showing you what you're about to buy.

The kid knew what he was doing and is exploiting his dad's ignorance of game consoles to pretend he "didn't know" to get out of trouble.

That kid will go places. He should go into finance.
 

tim.mbp

Member
Kind of surprised the card company let the charges go through without confirmation. You'd think they would have been flagged as suspicious charges.
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
17? Bitch please. He knew exactly what the fuck he was doing. The only thing that age tells us is that he might do foolish or criminal things in a way that he might grow out of someday... But did he know he was doing foolish or criminal things? Yeah, no doubt.

I remember stealing cigarettes and cash from my parents when I was 14. I knew what I was doing. 17? Lol

Ludicrous. I would be very happy to see microtransactions capped per month per game.
That's like capping your Amazon purchases per month.
 

thebloo

Member
Kind of surprised the card company let the charges go through without confirmation. You'd think they would have been flagged as suspicious charges.

There was a post higher up explaining that in no way would spending $8,000 be a fast process.

Looking on the PS Store, the largest pack is $99.99. So he would have done that process at least 80 times for a total of 960k Fifa points.

For reference, the largest pack you can buy on a normal day costs 150 points.
 
Should be reimbursed. These games prey on gamblers. If you have a system like this it should be regulated as such. I worked for a game publisher and all the games they brought over were cash grabs of, "buy this X in bulk and you have 0.0001% chance to get the good item."

How these companies operate is very deceiving and scummy. I can't take any micro transaction game with gambling items seriously.
 
We as a species don't need to encourage predatory consumer practices that take advantage of kids or compulsive buyers.

It just makes corporations less accountable and more likely to test more odious practices sooner.

While that is certainly probable, we must draw a line somewhere: a line between corporations willfully taking advantage of the clueless, malicious, and/or troubled, and being able to run our own lives without an overseer.

Now, both Apple and Microsoft have recently tightened up their purchasing procedures due to recent events. And now, if configured and used correctly, both have fail-safes that are specifically designed to avoid these kinds of situations, especially with young children. Of course, it requires at least SOME interaction by the consumer in the form of actually turning it on.

Now, let's give the father the benefit of the doubt. Maybe he didn't know Microsoft offered this kind of protection for Xbox Live. He still gave his 17 year old son a credit card with an apparently VERY LARGE credit limit.

If we're talking fairness, the father should have to pay half of what his son charged, minimum. That would be an expensive lesson, but one that father and son could stand to learn.
 
lol, don't think anyone but the father believes that kid.

I don't think even he believes him, but it's the best story to try get the money back. Fucking idiots, bill should stand and if he doesn't want to pay it, then the kid should go get a job and work it off. Tough shit if you have to work all year to pay it back.
 
While that is certainly probable, we must draw a line somewhere: a line between corporations willfully taking advantage of the clueless, malicious, and/or troubled, and being able to run our own lives without an overseer.

Now, both Apple and Microsoft have recently tightened up their purchasing procedures due to recent events. And now, if configured and used correctly, both have fail-safes that are specifically designed to avoid these kinds of situations, especially with young children. Of course, it requires at least SOME interaction by the consumer in the form of actually turning it on.

Now, let's give the father the benefit of the doubt. Maybe he didn't know Microsoft offered this kind of protection for Xbox Live. He still gave his 17 year old son a credit card with an apparently VERY LARGE credit limit.

Now, if we're talking fairness, the father should have to pay half of what his son charged, minimum. That would be an expensive lesson, but one that father and son could stand to learn.

Just because there's some form of parental control doesn't mean the parent knows how to do it. The goal isn't to inform the parents it's to curb predatory practices and not let $8000 go charged without the credit card company taking notice. The father didn't fail, the system allowed this to occur when, really, it shouldn't. It has to be regulated just like gambling because, really, you're only going for 1 or 2 prizes that are super rare. Game companies skirt this by giving you at least something but that something may as well be nothing.
 

Cyborg

Member
The fact that you can spend $8,000 in a FIFA game is insane. The kid is not to blame completly, EA should take responsibility
 
Just because there's some form of parental control doesn't mean the parent knows how to do it. The goal isn't to inform the parents it's to curb predatory practices and not let $8000 go charged without the credit card company taking notice. The father didn't fail, the system allowed this to occur when, really, it shouldn't. It has to be regulated just like gambling because, really, you're only going for 1 or 2 prizes that are super rare. Game companies skirt this by giving you at least something but that something may as well be nothing.

Again, we go back to it's not the game company's responsibility to help families with their finances. Saying the father didn't fail means Microsoft didn't step in and save him and his son from their own carelessness/stupidity/whatever.

You think a casino in Vegas would give a person their money back after they max'ed out all of their credit cards and emptied their bank account because they didn't know when to stop? They could try telling them that it's not their fault because the casino allowed it to happen, but I'm pretty sure they would get laughed off of the premises.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
ms and Sony need updated policies

- limit on how much you can spend on DLC per day
- go over the limit, it requires additional authorisation via email or text message to confirm.

So if the account owner isn't paying attention to their receipt emails, they won't be able to respond and it'll stay blocked.
 
At 17 years old, you know what? I'd say "Actually, I DO want to charge him with fraud." Fuck that. Don't try to tell me that kid had no idea what he was doing.
 

bootski

Member
How in the world could we possibly know for sure if its a gambling addiction? We know nothing about this kid. We've never met him, we've never spoken to him. Trying to label him with something as multifaceted as being an addict is beyond the abilities of anyone present, and more importantly, it's not fair to the kid.

assuming that the kid knew that each purchase cost money, which i believe he did, to get to $8000CDN he knowingly bought, at minimum, about 55 $100USD transactions. each time, he'd be prompted that it was a real money and non refundable purchase. He then use the FIFA points that he bought to buy packs. again, buying the most expensive pack possible in FIFA spending that many points would take 330 purchases, all which you buy, then confirm that you're spending FIFA points on. all in all, about 400 SEPARATE transactions, all double confirmations, AT MINIMUM.

the whole point of that is to try to get the rare cards. it's a game of chance that he's playing. the ronaldo, the messi, the pepe, whatever.

you're right in that nobody knows the kid but, reasonably assuming that he knew the cost each time, his actions are very much in line with the basic impulse control issues exhibited by a pathological gambler. and considering he was actually gambling, it's not a stretch at all to join the dots here.

edit: to quickly add, when you say we know nothing about him. it would be more fair to say we know nothing except he spent $8000 in <30 days on FIFA cards.
Can I get a gambler's high from buying a different decrepit item on the menu each time I go to Taco Bell, hoping that it's going to become my new favourite dish?

Can I get a gambler's high every time I post on GAF in hope that someone quotes me?

Using a randomized possible good event from a repeatable action cast one giant net over the possibility of human actions.

The thing about "winning" is that it's classified based on the value the user puts into it. Money is a pretty broad winning condition because it allows the user to change it out for almost literally anything.
Getting a thick legged pretty FIFA player card that you can utilize to increase numbers in a meaningless number increasing game only has the value that the user puts into it, which, if appropriately adjusted, should be next to nil. Falling into the "addiction" trap in a game like this is, well, pretty stupid.

We already know the kid is lying (or his father is) because he said he didn't know he was making purchases, which would take someone with authentically low intelligence to do. It's more likely that he thought he wouldn't get caught or that his dad wouldn't notice because he has a terrible idea of money (obviously).

If anything, this isn't a predatory practice, it's a fine lesson in economics and self control. The 17 year old can get a lovely job hauling drywall and pay back this $8000 by summer. I have no doubt that he's living at home for free, so it shouldn't be too hard to work it off with zero expenses.

compulsive or pathological gambling has been a defined disorder for ~20 years now. i'd suggest you do some light reading and see if taco bell ordering would qualify. in fact, personal financial ruin, family member involvement, lying to cover up etc are all documented predictable steps of a compulsive gambler.

i still think the father should be on the hook for the payment of course. i just don't see how the argument could possibly be made that this isn't a form of gambling.
 

thebloo

Member
ms and Sony need updated policies

- limit on how much you can spend on DLC per day
- go over the limit, it requires additional authorisation via email or text message to confirm.

So if the account owner isn't paying attention to their receipt emails, they won't be able to respond and it'll stay blocked.

You can and should already do this directly on your CC.
 
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