Dunno. This is what DF said:
So car reflections are variable (possibly constantly) and mirrors are 30 fps in Forza 5.
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Forza Motorsport 6 has "wet weather, 3D puddles and night races" + more
- Thread starter Steverulez
- Start date
Historically, Forza E3 demos have always been slightly less polished than the final version; I remember some shadow bugs with FM5 demo on Laguna Seca, and mirrors/reflections issues also.
The "worst" was FM3 a few years back, the game was running at 30fps while in cockpit view (!), and there was no driver animation when shifting gears (the latter was actually fixed by a title update a couple of weeks after launch...).
The "worst" was FM3 a few years back, the game was running at 30fps while in cockpit view (!), and there was no driver animation when shifting gears (the latter was actually fixed by a title update a couple of weeks after launch...).
Crap! This is exactly what I mean about Turn 10 "holding back" and not providing to expectation. I understand in respect to not providing dynamic weather but now there are no dynamic day and night either? I'm sorry but I am disappointed by this and I hope the general game experience makes up for the lack of feature.
Their accomplishments with this game are pretty amazing so far...
Saying they are holding back is nuts...
TylerDurden4321
Member
Seriously! I think we all have Don Mattrick to thank for this, if he hadn't been so TV and Kinect crazy and they had made a kinectless 450$ console with maybe even a little more power than the PS4 has, we would have dynamic ToD and weather in FM6. With things being as they are, we should all be happy that Turn10 doesn't seem to sacrifice 60fps to keep up in the graphics race with 30fps or primarily-PC titles. I'd go as far as saying "hopefully they realized early that dynimc ToD and weather can't be achieved without downgrading from FM5 and used the time to improve the simulation of real world physics and the newest in automotive technology"!
What I really wanted to post here:
ForzaMotorsport.net said:
I'm actually glad that I made a new gamertag for Xbox One and am still a little under 300 cars in FM5 and FH2(not sure here), because after they fixed the economy in FM5 early on, I was happy with my non-vip membership and probably would have played the game only half as much as I did before they released the Nürburgring tracks, had they given me 10,000,000Cr on day 1 or gave me 50% discount on everything.
I'm really not sure if ruining their economy for long-time fans is a good idea. Maybe they should have given them a random 10% of the cars from their garages of each of the previous games so that nobody could just go and buy the most expensive newest cars on day 1.
I'd say it's more about your expectations. Quoting myself a bit back:
If you look at the series, their development schedule, their progression, their restrictions I wouldn't say the way they have gone with the ToD and rain is not expectable. It doesn't mean it's free from criticism, but a realistic eye for some things for me is preferrable.
Let's take the combination of dynamic ToD and rain for example. It's been done before with worse hardware and less resources sure, but that doesn't mean anything when you take into the account that what they are actually doing on screen is still most likely to be above any of the titles mentioned. Most of these features are not items on a checklist, but massively complex systems that are construced in various ways, each with their own pros and cons ahd different effect on different people. For example the wet surface effect in FM6 is not only miles better looking than it's counterpart in GT5/6, but it's also technically much much more resources heavy, but at the same time you have to give credit to what GT5/6 did because it's commendable too with it's cons. And this goes on and on for thousands and thousands of technical and design decisions these game make.
That said, I was a bit disappointed too as expected as it was and I might have taken the dynamic system over the negative aspects it might have brought, but I also would some things to go against what the vision and core tenents of the series are so I'm not holding it to T10 for not providing some of those things yet. I can also still be happy about the new things they have gotten right for me or discuss the negative aspects of the series and design decisions (like career race lengths or lack of qualifying), but I do wish to do my best in trying to discuss it with substance and depth rather than go with a knee-jerk reaction or blind fanaticism that might get more response sure.
In any case I've went badly off-topic by now and I didn't mean address you in particular in the post, just that for me I would love for some more in-depth discussion rather than stuff that's sure to rile up some people without trying to go a bit deeper and back the opinions posted.
Yeah I agree that getting a ton of credits right at the start devalues the personal economy and thrill of progression at the start for me too. It's one of those situations where there is no optimal way to go as you have to reward the long-term fans in a way and giving credits is a good way, but I personally would like to see either system where you can decide when to accept those credits or that they are unlocked after a certain milestone.
i feel you, and i too miss it, but honestly the lighting, particularly at night, looks well beyond what playground obtained as real time in horizon 2. i think i'd rather have this solution then a half-baked version (pardon the pun and no offense horizon 2, i still love you).
eso76
Member
They mentioned Le Mans 24h somewhere, but it probably means alternating between 3/4 different fixed TODs between forced pitstops.
son of a Sven
Banned
Please no blinding sun in FM6. It's so annoying in 5 especially before a sharp corner.
Diablohead
Member
Sorry if this was bought up before but I can't find anything about it, is there not a middle ground between full on WET and full on DRY? like a wet race where puddles are smaller or not there?
I know it's not dymanic.
I know it's not dymanic.
For me personally the less I have to grind the better. I don't like unlocks in racing games at all actually. The racing itself is all I need to keep me coming back. I know I am free to practice/hot lap with any car in the game at any point but I can't tune or add paint designs on cars I don't own so it's not the same. Assetto Corsa for example handles it perfectly for me, I love that the entire car collection (as small as it is) is open instantly and it's purely about racing.
So I guess what I'm saying is I am glad that they appear to be making it easier to get cars in their games of late. People with my preference get cars quick enough that it's no real bother while those of you who love building their collection over time can do so as well. It's an acceptable balance I'd say.
Am I the only one who couldn't care less about the lighting being dynamic?
I have never enjoyed races where the time is artificially sped up in order to see day/night transitions during a race. Other than a full endurance race, it doesn't interest me in the slightest.
Great looking day time races? Yes, please.
Fantastic looking night time races? Sure.
5 lap races that go from full sun to full night? No thanks.
Diablohead
Member
6 forzas and we still have the floating tyres off the ground issue with the car shadows.
Watch the car's front left wheel.
And no it's not the water graphics, that white halo around the base of the wheel happens in other forza games too.
*edit* in fact why is there a solid black shadow under the car? it looks unrealistic.
KeyboardThug
Member
I agree most forza races last like 3- 10 laps. Now for a 6 hour race like they had a few weekends in forza 5 that would be great. But its not something I'm going to cry over.
Not sure how much I trust OXM any more since they moved to gamesradar, but this is interesting: http://www.gamesradar.com/forza-motorsport-6-ditches-microtransactions/
If it's the same method of microtransactions as FH2 I'll be happy, because you could actually hide the token prices and button prompts.
Wording is key here. I think they could've got the wrong end of the stick, meaning that you won't need to buy an absurd amount of tokens to afford the cars you want. (Lotus E21, anyone?)
If it's the same method of microtransactions as FH2 I'll be happy, because you could actually hide the token prices and button prompts.
Why are you begging for something to not be realistic?
drugstore_cowboy
Member
Wonder if the E21 will return.
Can't see there's going to be much interest in an older F1 car.
If they bought in a 2015 car is there any license issues of racing it against the E21?
Can't see there's going to be much interest in an older F1 car.
If they bought in a 2015 car is there any license issues of racing it against the E21?
FunnyBunny
Member
Forza 6 looks amazing. Like, I may buy an XBox One amazing.
But I do have questions.
Why did Turn 10 spend so much time on tracks such as Infineon and Hockenheim only to abandon them after one game? It must have known the Xbox One was coming; why not future-proof all the great work done for Forza 4 to boost the environment count?
And count me among those disappointed in static time-of-day and weather too. I'll get over itpromisebut there is something to say for the environment changing around you as you race. A rising or setting sun, or rain coming in waves dramatically impacts visibility from lap to lap. Forza 6 is still missing that element.
But I do have questions.
Why did Turn 10 spend so much time on tracks such as Infineon and Hockenheim only to abandon them after one game? It must have known the Xbox One was coming; why not future-proof all the great work done for Forza 4 to boost the environment count?
And count me among those disappointed in static time-of-day and weather too. I'll get over itpromisebut there is something to say for the environment changing around you as you race. A rising or setting sun, or rain coming in waves dramatically impacts visibility from lap to lap. Forza 6 is still missing that element.
Forza Motorsport 4 content did not match the quality they wanted to set a standard with on Forza Motorsport 5 and so on. Also since Forza Motorpsort 5 they are taking a standard of laser-scanning tracks added to the game.
Turn 10 has tried their best to keep a quality standard and want every car and track to look like they belong in the same game together.
Barring image quality issues, the content in Forza 5 is really high in quality.
TylerDurden4321
Member
I thought I was with you until I raced 4 laps on the Nürburgring Nordschleife with slow early evening/night transition and even the sound feeling different at night Gran Turismo. It felt magical in 2011(or whenever it was) even though I was used to better graphics on the PC at the time.
I was too annoyed by not being able to see anything at 200mph in Driveclub to enjoy it there, but it sure is great in Project CARS.
Sunsets and the red sky in PCARS are awe-inspiring. Fog in the early morning or a thunderstorm at night can give you chills if you are alone on track practicing or just track-day'ing. Maybe you should check out a youtube video of a replay (maybe not one taken on XB1 though, because the always inconsistent framerate of the replays is even exagerated by the 30fps unsynced video). One day I want dynamic sunsets and fog in a Forza game, but until then I'll be fine and not too disappointed anyway.
There should be a button for "sunvisor" or "shield your eyes with one hand" in the cars that don't have a sunvisor. The hand should be dropped once you have to shift or turn in hard. Was there ever a game that did that?
I'd wear sunglasses in real life in that situation lol.
There's still a few environments they haven't announced yet, but I have a feeling that these two will be among them. Suzuka hopefully will be one of them too.
Hawk269
Member
We know certain tracks will have night and certain ones will have rain, but will the remainder be static and only offer one time of day lighting?
I would love maybe 2 or 3 TOD settings for each course, even though it would be pre baked it would still add variety.
I am also assuming a track like Sebring would have its night and day time version?
I would love maybe 2 or 3 TOD settings for each course, even though it would be pre baked it would still add variety.
I am also assuming a track like Sebring would have its night and day time version?
I doubt Suzuka makes it in. The track was inaccurate and outdated, so it would need to be recaptured.
drugstore_cowboy
Member
Will be pissed if it doesn't make it back in without good reason.
BuffetChamp
Banned
No dynamic time of day or weather sucks. I do love my 60 frames for racers though. Go with your strengths Turn 10 + just improve on the the car and track numbers for the game. I will say I dearly hope GT7 has dynamic TOD and weather, just because i so badly wanted it for F6. But that they can keep the frame rate better this time around if they add it. Glad we have both franchises to spoil us. PS4 purchase inbound when GT7 releases. But yeah as it is F6 and that night racing and beautiful rain,even if its static, do make my tummy smile.
My TV doesn't have the dynamic range of my eyes.
FunnyBunny
Member
Thank you for this—but it still begs the question why (in 2011) did they spend so much time and effort on assets they deemed unacceptable two years later?
One of the knocks on Forza has been its relative lack of tracks when compared to other games in its genre. Even at twenty-six it will have about a dozen or so fewer locales. So it irritates me that Turn 10 didn't look far enough ahead on its product road map.
To me, Forza feels better than any other racer on the track. I love it—that's why I want to be able to experience more tracks, dynamic weather, and dynamic time of day. These are very important elements (to me) that I feel Turn 10 is behind on. Too far behind, honestly.
Everything above may sound negative. And it is to an extent. But I must stress that Forza 6 looks amazing and I'm working the math in my head to justify spending $400+ just to play it.
Louis Cyphre
Banned
Look at the amount of time Polyphony Digital take making their flagship games and they can't even get a cohesive list of cars to match the same graphical output. Of course unlimited funds and no time constraints is the best case scenario but what Turn 10 can do in 2 years is very impressive. Especially given the hardware they work on. The commitment to 60 frames is the right direction so something has to give. It's also going to be supporting 24 cars in multiplayer.
I bought an Xbox One to play Forza games. Forza 5 at launch, Forza Horizon 2 one year later, and I will have Forza Motorsport 6 in 3 months. And I know I will have Forza Horizon 3 next year.
Keep holding back Turn 10!
So funny reading those concern posters in this same thread. One guy said he was expecting 900p, make funny of FordGT that was expecting 4xMSAA. Then he came back to the thread saying he was disapointed by the graphics. lol.
Keep holding back Turn 10!
So funny reading those concern posters in this same thread. One guy said he was expecting 900p, make funny of FordGT that was expecting 4xMSAA. Then he came back to the thread saying he was disapointed by the graphics. lol.
drugstore_cowboy
Member
Forza isn't ever going to be everything for everybody.
At least we've got some alternatives on the same platform though.
At least we've got some alternatives on the same platform though.
This
It's more about choosing the exact ToD for me rather than the transition. Let's hope every track has dawn/day/dusk/night options
Cool, thanks. 30 fps it is then, which is totally acceptable for mirrors. Did you get direct captured footage? If so I would like to see it
What kind of eyes do you have that you never get blinded by the sun?
Steverulez
Member
Saw a proper gameplay video of this, looks incredible.
U n i o n 0015
Member
Honestly, I would be cool with one event/track that had dynamic time of day, like from what I remember of GT5. It was a great showcase event. Yes, it'd be cool to have on all tracks, but let's be real--most races take place during the day. It wouldn't make any sense to have a night race at Laguna Seca, for example.
I hope so. All the cut content from FM5 (and general discontent with MS's early Xbox One reveal), is why I skipped buying an Xbox One until now.
If it doesn't make it in, I seriously doubt they will give any reason. But the track was to be in pCARS (it was in final stages of development) and it had to be modified at the last minute to turn it into a fictional track because SMS couldn't close a deal with the track owners, so I wouldn't hold my hopes too high.
I have PCars (on XB1) and Driveclub so I'm familiar with the day/night transitions in those games, which are honestly my least favourite races. I can understand that some people like it, but it just doesn't do anything for me. However, I wouldn't fault a game for doing it, nor would I not buy a game that has dynamic lighting if I otherwise was interested in it.
That's a fair point. Different ToD is fine if is isn't changing dramatically during the race, I can appreciate that. But if the "pre-baked" lighting allows it to look better (not saying it necessarily does) at that particular ToD, and it takes less system resources to do so, then I feel the trade off is warranted. IMO of course.
We've just uploaded a first 1080p60 video of the triple screen Forza 6 setup at the Microsoft booth. Very nice looking video too, dare I say 
http://www.gamersyde.com/news_e3_triple_screen_forza_6_videos-16733_en.html
A second and longer video of this setup will follow.
Edit: Second video added!
http://www.gamersyde.com/news_e3_triple_screen_forza_6_videos-16733_en.html
A second and longer video of this setup will follow.
Edit: Second video added!
Agree with the accomplishments but don't agree in regards to that they are not holding back, my friend. They are holding back considering their development time. They only get less than 2 years to create the game so I think it may be safe to say that dynamic weather and day & night was lower on their priority list during their production phase. Maybe we'll get it in Forza 7. After all, I'm very sure they were thinking of including Night racing in Forza 5 but it didn't make the cut due to lack of time. Oh well, it doesn't matter now.
Agree with this to a degree. Yup, the kinect feature was actually pointless in respect to racing and even viewing the car. It was a nice addition - or gimmick - but it was actually a distraction for hardly any one utilized it after using the feature a few weeks later from purchase. Completely on the same fence with everyone here in respect to 60fps. 60fps (well, 54 - 60fps) stable is absolutely essential, mandatory even for a sim game. Therefore, if the dynamic features had to be removed in order to maintain that frame rate in consideration of their limited development time then so be it. Ultimately, their scheduling/development-time is the real crime here that is stopping the team from really giving us what we want for the "holding back" pattern is all too clear.
I don't believe knee-jerk reaction or blind fanaticism are traits that occurred in this thread (or at least from me), however, it is good to see that we do think on similar grounds so I don't need to re-iterate about the pros and cons that you presented.
Unless I've missed it, it's worth pointing that you have to remember that we do not know everything about the situation of the developers such as their strains, limitations and so on, therefore we can only comment on the things they do mention or reveal. In this case, when I talked about things such as 3D puddles as an example, I mention this productively together with ideas of how to make it better to enrich the game further, the overall experience both in race and in menus. It is also worth bearing in mind that to go into depth of things a discussion has to start somewhere, no matter the detail level of a person's comment.
In the end, no matter what, the core game experience has to be solid, but it is also near equally important is to ensure that all big and small features & elements "synergise" together too in order to make up the game’s world. A player's actions & choices must have meaning, serve a purpose for self-improvement with glorification and not done for the sake of it within both the race and menus. I believe that when done right, it will result in creating an incredibly crafted together packaged game, something that Forza need more attention. Again, all solved if the developers has more time for less than two years does not always favour them, hence the "holding back".
Agreed. If the option is what you described then definitely the best route is what you said. The question is thought is was that the case/reasoning for their decision to omit it though? It would be nice to have those rationales or at least clearer answers on this from the horse mouth for understanding.
Uncle Ernie
Banned
No dynamic weather? Absolute cobblers. No car clubs? What a jeb. Maybe Forza 7 will get it right, utter shite.
drugstore_cowboy
Member
We'll be matched with others online depending on our speed and safety record?
Sounds pretty good to me.
I'm as slow as shit but race fairly. Hopefully our offline racing isn't taken into consideration because them drivatars fuck me off no end.
Sounds pretty good to me.
I'm as slow as shit but race fairly. Hopefully our offline racing isn't taken into consideration because them drivatars fuck me off no end.
Uncle Ernie
Banned
Arcade fluff for shirt lifters, my son.
https://twitter.com/gamespot/status/611236920941801472
LIVE: @ForzaMotorsport takes the #GameSpotE3 stage to talk about Forza Motorsport 6! http://l.gamespot.com/1JUiz1o
LIVE: @ForzaMotorsport takes the #GameSpotE3 stage to talk about Forza Motorsport 6! http://l.gamespot.com/1JUiz1o
drugstore_cowboy
Member
I'd edit that comment man.