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[OmegaDL50]

The only thing flawed is your analogy.

Does Giantbomb, IGN, Destructoid, Eurogamer, etc.. have to give Nintendo a share of the ad money they sell on the site when they cover the next Nintendo game?

If not, why do they expect to get all the ad revenue from Youtube, it's basically the same thing in all but job title.

I'm not saying Nintendo can't control their IP or that Youtubers are entitled to money but surely there is a better solution than just striking all the videos, one that doesn't require you to sign your rights away as a "partner". All it does is drives people to stop covering the games, games get less exposure and all Nintendo is doing is cutting their nose off the spite their face.

Thank you. Another person that gets it.

 

[Metal B]

If it's so easy then why don't you do it?

There are hundred of people doing it right now. Joe was part of the second wave of Internet critics (first wave were AVGN, Spoony, etc.), which is why he had more time to establish himself and his stick was still fresh then. Now you can't become as successful anymore, since too many people got, how easy it is to make money out of it.

 

[lenovox1]

A bunch of obviously butt hurt people in here. Nintendo have no claim on his video at all. There's no question about it.

It should be understood that Google's policies and the ContentID system are largely indiscriminate, and that a YouTuber has little say in the matter if "the system" says that something belongs to someone else because they agreed to YouTube's terms and conditions.

 

[HylianHero12]

It's not about the ad revenue here. If, let's say, Pewdiepie uploads a video for Mario Party 10 and he's having an absolute BLAST with some buddies then people will see that, people will watch it, and people will buy the game. That's what the argument here is.

I understand that, which is why my second point was that Nintendo obviously knows this and decides that something outweighs that potential benefit and enacts these choices that will likely stop the people making Nintendo videos. I think that overall the ad revenue is irrelevant to Nintendo and they are trying to exercise control over their IP.

 

[EatinOlives]

Job? Right...

This is really what it comes down to. People dislike YouTube personalities and Let's Players on a fundamental level, so any time they have a difficulty in their channel it's open season to shit on them.

It isn't about Nintendo or monetizing media content on YouTube. It's about "I hate these guys so good riddance!" schadenfreude.

 

[Majukun]

Exactly. YouTubers should consider themselves lucky to get and revenue from their videos at all. If they aren't uploading reviews they don't have a right to a single cent.

except they do

 

[baphomet]

Usually a job is supposed to make you money. If you want to do a job for free there are a lot more worthy causes than making videos about games from japanese mega corporation.

I'm not sure exactly what you're saying, but there's plenty of people pulling 6 figures by playing these japanese mega corporations games.

 

[legacyzero]

All it does is drives people to stop covering the games, games get less exposure and all Nintendo is doing is cutting their nose off the spite their face.

Boom. Perfect analogy.

 

[Waylon Drums]

I don't like anyone in this situation.

 

[Nozem]

There are hundred of people doing it right now. Joe was part of the second wave of Internet critics (first wave were AVGN, Spoony, etc.), which is why he had more time to establish himself and his stick was still fresh then. Now you can't become as successful anymore, since too many people got, how easy it is to make money out of it.

That's a paradox.

Edit: nevermind I get it.

 

[Jebusman]

I understand all that. So does that mean Nintendo is ok with any advertising value that comes out of it since they left the video up? Should Joe be entitled to any of the revenue that comes in for this advertising?

Entitled? No. He doesn't innately deserve a cent.

CAN he be compensated? Sure. If Nintendo feels it worth it.

 

[Pennywise83]

I really don't understand all of the hate for Youtube, and Twitch streamers. All of the hateful comments in this thread are pretty ridiculous.

A reasonble point "against" streamers is that as long as they want this to be considered a real job (which is, indeed), they have to comply certain rules. They're not kids anymore, that create contents for fun; they are professional in a job they are contributing in. Therefore, they have to comply to copyright protection law, taxes, and so on and so forth.

 

[baphomet]

It should be understood that Google's policies and the ContentID system are largely indiscriminate, and that a YouTuber has little say in the matter if "the system" says that something belongs to someone else because they agreed to YouTube's terms and conditions.

Except he's able to file a dispute on the claim very easily. If nothing else, to stop Nintendo from stealing his ad revenue.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Nintendo are in a situation where their home console is selling horribly and 3DS sales are declining. You would think they would welcome coverage from well known youtubers......more companies really should understand that they do help get the word out of there, actually I'm sure some do. Its not like Angry Joe doesn't have a score of different games he could just play and get big views on.

 

[Myggen]

This is really what it comes down to. People dislike YouTube personalities and Let's Players on a fundamental level, so any time they have a difficulty in their channel it's open season to shit on them.

It isn't about Nintendo or monetizing media content on YouTube. It's about "I hate these guys so good riddance!" schadenfreude.

It's about Nintendo too, as seen in the thread about Nintendo's announcement of their YT program, but it's no doubt also about a lot of people's hatred of Youtubers and Angry Joe specifically.

 

[TheJoRu]

The workers working at the fake nike factory deserve compensation too.

Yes, because they probably have contracts telling them they're entitled to money.

 

[……forgetit]

I'm not sure exactly what you're saying, but there's plenty of people pulling 6 figures by playing these japanese mega corporations games.

And at least one guy pulling 7

Makes 4 million dollars a year people.

 

[tynestar]

Entitled? No. He doesn't innately deserve a cent.

CAN he be compensated? Sure. If Nintendo feels it worth it.

Totally agree. I also agree that Joe should remove the video. If Nintendo see's enough value in letting the video stay up, surely it must have some value to them. Why work for Nintendo for free.

 

[PirateKing]

Nintendo are in a situation where their home console is selling horribly and 3DS sales are declining. You would think they would welcome coverage from well known youtubers......more companies really should understand that they do help get the word out of there, actually I'm sure some do. Its not like Angry Joe doesn't have a score of different games he could just play and get big views on.

This is the same company that doesn't give its costumers a proper Account System. Nintendo is backwards in a lot of ways.

 

[Wiktor]

But it's self employment. LPers are still essentially in hobbyist territory, but with financial compensation due to ads/donations.

It's gone so long now that rather than the exception, it's now the "norm" that people get paid for these videos, to the point where not getting paid is seen as an insult and "Well why bother?"

So? It's just a new profession. For many people it long ago stopped being hobbyist territory.

Nintendo obviously has the right to intervene, but at the same time they're also not entitled to have their games covered by YT video creators.

 

[legacyzero]

And at least one guy pulling 7

Makes 4 million dollars a year people.

Yep! And ALLLLLL that exposure games get to those 7 million people.

 

[Scanna]

"For free"?

So he didn't put any work/money into it?

He does what most people do on a daily basis and he gets payed only cause someone enjoys watching somebody comment on gameplay, which is something I still don't get. He doesn't create anything, as most youtubers. There is some work into it, but it's mostly a combination of luck and early mover advantage.

Plus, there are some very shady things going on behind youtubers most of the time.

 

[Sol1dus]

If Sony, Microsoft, EA, Ubisoft, Konami, Or any other company had done this Nintendo fanboys would have been like "whaaaaat??!!"

Since their great Iwata & Reggie were the ones to do it first, now it's deemed like an ok thing to do.

Nintendo fanboys, Nintendo has the right to do this but guess what? They don't have to be complete pricks and make youtubers make a separate channel just to upload Nintendo videos.

If the Wii U had been the one to have Twitch & YT upload support you would all be talking about how revolutionary your console is while criticizing the competition for not doing it.

 

[Lalalandia]

Honestly I was surprised Joe even started covering Nintendo given that their policies towards YouTube creators have been known for a while. I think they're dumb but they are what they are so this shouldn't have been a surprise.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

If Sony, Microsoft, EA, Ubisoft, Konami, Or any other company had done this Nintendo fanboys would have been like "whaaaaat??!!"

Since their great Iwata & Reggie were the ones to do it first, now it's deemed like an ok thing to do.

Nintendo fanboys, Nintendo has the right to do this but guess what? They don't have to be complete pricks and make youtubers make a separate channel just to upload Nintendo videos.

If the Wii U had been the one to have Twitch & YT upload support you would all be talking about how revolutionary your console is while criticizing the competition for not doing it.

Yeah, that argument will get you nowhere. I agree with Nintendo and the last Nintendo console I bought was a DSi.

 

[KingSnake]

Tell that to the Publishers like Paradox or Bohemia. Imagine what the sales of games like Cities: Skylines, Crusader Kings 2, Divinity: Original Sin or Arma 2/3/Dayz would be like without the torrent of unregulated coverage that came along with those games/mods releases. These middle-budget productions don't have the money to spend on anything resembling a decent sized marketing campaign, and thus, to them, streamers and Youtubers like Joe are a lifeline. Why else do you think Pillars of Eternity was distributed out to streamers before its release? And it isn't just about making small budgeted productions a decent return, either. DayZ has sold over 3 million; Cities almost 1 million in a couple of weeks; Divinity is at a million; ARMA 3 is at 1.6 million; ARMA 2 much more than that. These are incredibly niche titles compared to anything Nintendo puts out, and yet they are making big money. It's crazy to turn your back on this kind of marketing, especially when your product is as good as Nintendo's.

Different audience. You don't watch Mario Party 10 played on youtube and then go to Steam and pre-order it. Because you need to go out and buy the console first (assuming you're not into Nintendo and you feel suddenly enlighten by AJ's charisma and eloquence).

Different game types. The games that Paradox makes are much easier to cover in a let's play than in an ad or a trailer for example. What Paradox did was a very smart thing, they practically revealed their games through the youtubers, it's a similar event with a Nintendo Direct for a game. But it was still a strategy, a controlled marketing campaign, if you want. That's advertising.

Each company does its own marketing strategy. Obviously Nintendo's doesn't include youtubers, although they started doing more with Splatoon this year.

Practically Nintendo thinks that people are more likely to search for MP10 videos and give views (and money) to AJ, than people that view AJ's playing MP10 to buy the game. Without data it's impossible to determine if Nintendo is wrong or not with this.

 

[TheJoRu]

Nintendo obviously has the right to intervene, but at the same time they're also not entitled to have their games covered by YT video creators.

I'm pretty sure they are aware of this.

That's why they're actively encouraging and support YouTubers they think provide good coverage of their games, so they'll continue doing so, even though they're not entitled to any coverage from them.

Angry Joe is not one of those YouTubers they think provide good coverage of their games.

 

[cheezcake]

And at least one guy pulling 7

Makes 4 million dollars a year people.

Lol who cares? He provides an entertainment service which a very large amount of people enjoy, and as such he is compensated accordingly. You don't get paid based on your "contribution to society" or how difficult your work is, you get paid based on how valuable other people deem your work to be.

 

[Reset]

Yep! And ALLLLLL that exposure games get to those 7 million people.

Are you being sarcastic? Because wasn't it because of him EA had to reprint copies of their games because he made it popular when he played them.

 

[Phamit]

Looking at his youtube channel he already did a rant about it back in January...

....so he clearly knew there would be claims on his most recent video...

..so one wonders why he's acting surprised.

Yeah, I don't understand this.

It's his job, besides already uploading a nintendo video and ranting about it, he should knew about Nintendos stance, since it was a big topic for you tuber

Also did he try to talk with Polaris about this? He giving them about 30% of his ad revenue, maybe they should do something for this


But at the moment it looks like that he just tried it again and hoped nothing going to happen this time

 

[Jebusman]

So? It's just a new profession. For many people it long ago stopped being hobbyist territory.

Nintendo obviously has the right to intervene, but at the same time they're also not entitled to have their games covered by YT video creators.

Which is a good thing that they're not "demanding" LPers play their games. Merely encouraging and rewarding those willing to play ball.

 

[fantomena]

Well pewdiepies Skate videos made EA produce more copiesof the game in the UK. So YouTubers matters.

 

[Bgamer90]

He does what most people do on a daily basis

A ton of jobs consist of people who get paid to do the same type of work that others do for free.

...and he gets payed only cause someone enjoys watching somebody comment on gameplay, which is something I still don't get.

Totally crazy that people want to hear/see opinions of products before buying them.

He doesn't create anything, as most youtubers. There is some work into it, but it's mostly a combination of luck and early mover advantage.

Haha, seriously? Do you have experience in editing videos?

 

[lyrick]

This is from a relevant GDC talk.

Video here:
http://gdcvault.com/play/1022063/How-YouTubers-and-Twitch-Streamers

False Equivalence/10

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

Yeah, I don't understand this.

It's his job, besides already uploading a nintendo video and ranting about it, he should knew about Nintendos stance, since it was a big topic for you tuber

Also did he try to talk with Polaris about this? He giving them about 30% of his ad revenue, maybe they should do something for this


But at the moment it looks like that he just tried it again and hoped nothing going to happen this time

This sounds like a publicity stunt.

 

[Moral Panic]

No your rebuttal was a completely off base analogy that makes absolutely no sense. Hell I don't even like Joe but his videos require independent thought, critique and presentation and is in no way comparable to producing a straight replica of copyrighted materials.

Yeah, I'd say being able to look at a Nike shoe, set up a factory, hire workers, create a clone and sell it takes a lot more work. So maybe it is a bad analogy.

 

[mzupeman]

He does what most people do on a daily basis and he gets payed only cause someone enjoys watching somebody comment on gameplay, which is something I still don't get. He doesn't create anything, as most youtubers. There is some work into it, but it's mostly a combination of luck and early mover advantage.

Plus, there are some very shady things going on behind youtubers most of the time.

I'm not sure you understand how much time it takes to write a script, film something, edit certain stuff out so it flows nicely, and then edit the game footage behind it in order to back it all up. His review videos have a lot of work put into them. A lot. Regardless of how I feel about him being a crybaby in this case, you're severely shorting him on the amount of work it takes to do what he does.

 

[……forgetit]

Lol who cares? He provides an entertainment service which a very large amount of people enjoy, and as such he is compensated accordingly. You don't get paid based on your "contribution to society" or how difficult your work is, you get paid based on how valuable other people deem your work to be.

Oh, I have no problem with it, I just think it's funny and I like seeing the salty reactions, some people in this thread get legit angry at the idea of someone making money by playing video games.

 

[cheezcake]

I'm pretty sure they are aware of this.

That's why they're actively encouraging and support YouTubers they think provide good coverage of their games, so they'll continue doing so, even though they're not entitled to any coverage from them.

Angry Joe is not one of those YouTubers they think provide good coverage of their games.

So the only videos allowed on Youtube have to be Nintendo approved, that is fucked up.

 

[tengiants]

If Sony, Microsoft, EA, Ubisoft, Konami, Or any other company had done this Nintendo fanboys would have been like "whaaaaat??!!"

Since their great Iwata & Reggie were the ones to do it first, now it's deemed like an ok thing to do.

Nintendo fanboys, Nintendo has the right to do this but guess what? They don't have to be complete pricks and make youtubers make a separate channel just to upload Nintendo videos.

If the Wii U had been the one to have Twitch & YT upload support you would all be talking about how revolutionary your console is while criticizing the competition for not doing it.

those companies do issue DMCA takedown requests on youtubers even. I think you're projecting your inner fanboy.

 

[cafemomo]

I thought he only owned a Xbox and a ps4

 

[OmegaDL50]

And at least one guy pulling 7

Makes 4 million dollars a year people.

Seriously. It's insane.

If I had the proper recording equipment and effort to actually make running a youtube channel and do the equivalent of game journalism in video form. I would do so, but I don't ignore the fact that it requires a heavy time investment, creating and editing videos, uploading them, making sure it's properly curated, needing to decide what games or content to discuss, make said content actually interesting and worthwhile to watch and try not to anger my advertising partners in the process I would do so.

To say any regular joe (hah?) can create these kinds of videos without effort and claim they aren't actually doing a "job" is ridiculous.

 

[Nightbird]

If Sony, Microsoft, EA, Ubisoft, Konami, Or any other company had done this Nintendo fanboys would have been like "whaaaaat??!!"

Since their great Iwata & Reggie were the ones to do it first, now it's deemed like an ok thing to do.

Nintendo fanboys, Nintendo has the right to do this but guess what? They don't have to be complete pricks and make youtubers make a separate channel just to upload Nintendo videos.

If the Wii U had been the one to have Twitch & YT upload support you would all be talking about how revolutionary your console is while criticizing the competition for not doing it.

Oh great Way to generalize everyone.

I am fully behind the Idea to claim the Money for what you made.
If you want a Part of it, you can sign up in the creators Programm wich still needs some work.

But don't think that going into a Shop and buy a Game is equal to being allowed to do coverage about it.

 

[7DollarHagane]

I fucking hate angry joe but i do watch a lot of youtube channels.

I guess I look at youtube channels like a waiter/waitress in a restaurant. (at least in the US sense)

The server doesn't claim they deserve a portion of the total income from the restaurant. The owner is the one who makes choices about business direction, quality of ingredients, advertising the restaurant, staffing, and the atmosphere of the restaurant.

The server deserves to make an hourly wage, with tips from patrons who enjoy their service.

To me someone like Nintendo is the restaurant owner. They claim the majority of the profits because they established the actual reason people come to the restaurant in the first place.

The server is the youtube channel covering Nintendo's content - they provide personality, a good experience, and assist the customers enjoying Nintendo's content.

That's why I like channels like Epic Name Bro who use the "tip jar" system and still do ads, but have deals worked out with From or Sony to share ad revenue.

The ad revenue sharing is like the reduced hourly wage for a server, with tips or patreon on top.

Just like a restaurant needs servers, a company like Nintendo needs youtube channels covering their videos. If they don't provide favorable terms to those content providers, they'll leave for a better restaurant and you have a restaurant without servers. Not a great experience.

 

[Stallion Dan]

All these games are indie games, who can't afford any real marketing and don't get real coverage on gaming news sites. They also don't have an established fanbase who actively looks out for new content of them. Nintendo does, the situation isn't even remotely comparable.

Youtube coverage of games is nothing like the sort of advertising done by typical marketing campaigns. A TV ad for a video game is just poor, a youtube video of someone playing the game and talking about it is far better.

You seem to think Nintendo shouldn't try to expand its audience, since apparently only the established fanbase matters. Lets see how that works out.

Also, you should see this for the affect on even major publisher games. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...inted-following-its-recent-youtube-popularity

 

[Wiktor]

Which is a good thing that they're not "demanding" LPers play their games.

Nintendo isn't. But their fans might. Why else be angry at people like Angry Joe for boycotting Nintendo?

 

[TheSlySoul]

Are you being sarcastic? Because wasn't it because of him EA had to reprint copies of their games because he made it popular when he played them.

You know EA is actually pretty good with Youtube creators.
Also yeah Skate 3 is an example of the power. EA had to reprint the games because of demand.

Edit: Also I bought my Wii U due to Game Grump coverage of Nintendo Land. ZOMG!

 

[SlowRevolution]

He does what most people do on a daily basis

I can't speak for everyone else, but when I'm playing a game I don't talk the whole time and try to be as entertaining as possible.

 

[tynestar]

I'm pretty sure they are aware of this.

That's why they're actively encouraging and support YouTubers they think provide good coverage of their games, so they'll continue doing so, even though they're not entitled to any coverage from them.

Angry Joe is not one of those YouTubers they think provide good coverage of their games.

Then why didn't they strike it with a copyright claim? Why leave the video up if this YouTuber doesn't provide them good coverage?

 

[Beelzebufo]

Just a random question on this kind of thing: Can Nintendo copyright claim reviews too if the review didn't get their approval first? Or is it just for Let's Plays? Where is the line drawn between the two?