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Jimquisition (Nov. 9, 2015) - Fallout 4's S.P.E.C.I.A.L Relationships
- Thread starter L~A
- Start date
Baron von Loathsome
Member
Uh, there's a NSFW image in there that lingers on the screen for a while. Just a heads up.
So does something happen when two characters in your active relationship meet? I'm not saying this because I want a morality statement from the game. I just want to know if the game goes beyond setting the activeRelationship boolean to true for multiple characters. Furthermore, can relationships fail?
chronic_archaic
Member
Very cool feature, and I love how understated it is. As for Jim himself, I do like how open he is about his orientation and lovelife, you could tell it really meant a lot to him.
ZeroMaverick
Member
Spoilers?
Are the relationships in Fallout 4 more fleshed out than Skyrim's? Do the characters you romance react to the fact that you're in multiple relationships (either negatively or positively, doesn't matter)?
If the answer is no, I'll just chalk this up to Bethesda making the relationship system as deep as a post-drizzle puddle. I'd be nice for this kind of stuff to be in AAA games in a non-pandering matter, but let's flesh this shit out some.
If the answer is no, I'll just chalk this up to Bethesda making the relationship system as deep as a post-drizzle puddle. I'd be nice for this kind of stuff to be in AAA games in a non-pandering matter, but let's flesh this shit out some.
No and that's probably the problem:
They give YOU the choice. If the 2 people met, since you are the MC, they'd be like "It's cool, brah!"...
...the next step would be to make some characters not mind it and others mind it...
But hey! Let's celebrate them allowing you to have more choice...but the NPCs still have no personality to them.
My point exactly.
I see where he's coming from, but I wish the game did address it. Not to make any kind of commentary on poly relationships, but instead to have some companions okay with it and some who are not. Then again Fallout really isn't the series to go in depth into a relationship like that.
Other than showing 2 potentially romanceable characters, no. He doesn't go into specifics about anything or make any mention of the plot or anything.
Visualante2
Member
How does the AI react if they find out you're in a relationship with someone else? If at all.
edit. My gran walked in on me during the pounding sound
edit. 2. I have been kicked out of the house now I can't play Fallout 4
thank god for jim etc
edit. My gran walked in on me during the pounding sound
edit. 2. I have been kicked out of the house now I can't play Fallout 4
thank god for jim etc
Turin Turambar
Member
Sorry, but I rolled my eyes with the video.
It seems the relationships aren't exactly faithfully represented, at the end of the day they are just some +bonus when you reach "maximum companionship" and when you sleep in a bed near them, lol.
So it's less Bethesda being progressive and open, and it's more a case of Bethesda not bothering with all the mess and complexities of real relationships, like breakups and cheating and couple discussion and all that, as it goes well over what their games are really about, killing shit, looting around, talking to quest givers. And just imagine the consequences if all that spilled over the gameplay. Imagine a companion leaving you without the player having a say, no chance Bethesda would allow that.
So if you get a second relationship, whatever, no reason for the first one to stop working, it's like joining a second guild in Skyrim, or like getting a new perk, the first one isn't going to stop working.
It seems the relationships aren't exactly faithfully represented, at the end of the day they are just some +bonus when you reach "maximum companionship" and when you sleep in a bed near them, lol.
So it's less Bethesda being progressive and open, and it's more a case of Bethesda not bothering with all the mess and complexities of real relationships, like breakups and cheating and couple discussion and all that, as it goes well over what their games are really about, killing shit, looting around, talking to quest givers. And just imagine the consequences if all that spilled over the gameplay. Imagine a companion leaving you without the player having a say, no chance Bethesda would allow that.
So if you get a second relationship, whatever, no reason for the first one to stop working, it's like joining a second guild in Skyrim, or like getting a new perk, the first one isn't going to stop working.
James Scott
Banned
I imagine that's the case.
Starwolf_UK
Member
As always people should be careful where they watch The Jimquisition (listening is another thing and nearly all the content is in the audio). I remember a while back there was someone who was worried they would be accused of being a neo Nazi by their co-workers due to how the podium set up looks from a distance.
Visualante2
Member
Weren't some companions incompatible with others due to factions in New Vegas? I may forget but I always saw some tension there. In some respects it satisfies people who want to be poly but also those who want to role play as someone promiscuous. I hope I'm not putting my foot in it here.
Yeah, that's what I got from it. What would make sense is to have some characters being okay with it and others not, just like in real life. If it's possible with all companions it feels more like Bethesda just didn't care to look into the whole thing deep enough.
Not that this really takes away from what Jim gets out of this game, but I have a feeling Betheseda didn't mean to really make a statement.
Is it really polyamory though? Do you have a discussion with your partners that you agree to see other people? Is your partner also going out and mating with other people?
It seems more like you have the freedom to cheat without consequences than it is a polyamorous. From what I understand about Polyamory, both parties agree and consent to it. If it is never touched upon, it is cheating.
It seems more like you have the freedom to cheat without consequences than it is a polyamorous. From what I understand about Polyamory, both parties agree and consent to it. If it is never touched upon, it is cheating.
Sounds like it and I don't like it. I've always been very much against Bethesda's 'you must be able to do (almost) anything in one playthrough' philosophy, so whenever I read/see shit like this I roll my eyes and start to wonder if I'm truly the only one that hates this.
Mr. Smiley
Member
No, NV companions didn't care about other companions. Just whether you, the player, did something to a faction or not.
Baron von Loathsome
Member
Yeah, it feels like what Saints Row IV did, just not played for laughs.
Pilgrimzero
Member
Is it Polygamy if they aren't married?
Polygamy and polyamory are two different thing. Former is marriage, the latter is dating/relationships
Majukun
Member
i suppose for some people this is a big deal
for me this episode was about nothing
actually,the fact that it is possible to do polygamy without repercussion AND without any aknowledgement from the characters in the game,sounds to me more like lazy writing/programing than any conscious choice
but it's good to be able to play the game without worring about anything in that regard,so it's not like i'm complaining either
for me this episode was about nothing
actually,the fact that it is possible to do polygamy without repercussion AND without any aknowledgement from the characters in the game,sounds to me more like lazy writing/programing than any conscious choice
but it's good to be able to play the game without worring about anything in that regard,so it's not like i'm complaining either
Messofanego
Banned
2015 seems like the year where the videogame industry recognised it didn't have to cater just to straight white males, featured non-heterosexual relationships, had some gender equality with female protagonists in typical hero roles, and actually gave a toss about representation (Wolfenstein The Old Blood, Assassins Creed Syndicate, Call of Duty Black Ops 3, Not A Hero, Cibele, Toren, Life Is Strange, Jotun, Lemma, Submerged, and now Fallout 4) . Bravo!
Well it's great that this particular setup makes Jim happy but to me this sounds less like a intended feature and more like a lack of features. I mean the hypothetical, monogamous system Jim described would actually require more programming effort and additional dialogue for each character (and of course more QA). The way it's actually done is the easy, practically half-assed, way. I guess the reason Bethesda went this way was because they didn't want to lock players out of any relationship paths so you could experience them all in one play through.
I guess it's a happy coincidence for Jim but personally I'm not sold on the idea that no character would ever take issue with you two timing on them. It's a bit silly and robs NPCs of some personality. Every character is just another bar for you to max out.
I guess it's a happy coincidence for Jim but personally I'm not sold on the idea that no character would ever take issue with you two timing on them. It's a bit silly and robs NPCs of some personality. Every character is just another bar for you to max out.
Messofanego
Banned
It's funny how Fable and Saints Row feel like precursors to this. Comedic games that didn't care about relationship drama came to be seen as more progressive.
You know, for a minute I was right there with some of you guys on "eh, it's kind of BS, it's just programming."
And yeah, the cynic in me wants to say this is all just a quirk of programming, and that it's less talking (or even allowing to exist) polyamorous people and more just "WOO, PLAYUR FREDURM".
But, you know what? I stopped for a minute and thought about it, and, well, who am I to say what someone gets out of it?
I'm glad that Jim got something more out of a feature that most people gloss over (or go "lol, i'm such a pimp"). People give and people take different things from the media they consume.
If anything, it's a testament to how including things for people who don't normally get to see themselves represented, whether on purpose or by accident, is a nice thing for everyone. Whether it's "made a big deal" by making it part of the core story, or just put in the background because, well, why the hell not, it's something that the more privileged of us take for granted when consuming our media.
Even these little things, whether intentional or not, makes a big difference for the people it matters for.
And yeah, the cynic in me wants to say this is all just a quirk of programming, and that it's less talking (or even allowing to exist) polyamorous people and more just "WOO, PLAYUR FREDURM".
But, you know what? I stopped for a minute and thought about it, and, well, who am I to say what someone gets out of it?
I'm glad that Jim got something more out of a feature that most people gloss over (or go "lol, i'm such a pimp"). People give and people take different things from the media they consume.
If anything, it's a testament to how including things for people who don't normally get to see themselves represented, whether on purpose or by accident, is a nice thing for everyone. Whether it's "made a big deal" by making it part of the core story, or just put in the background because, well, why the hell not, it's something that the more privileged of us take for granted when consuming our media.
Even these little things, whether intentional or not, makes a big difference for the people it matters for.
toastyToast
Member
Definitely should have called the episode Boston A Nut
CyanideFuse
Member
I guess it depends how you want to see it. You can say that it isn't a fleshed out feature and therefore 'shallow' because you can do this without repercussions or you can say it isn't about making a massive song-and-dance about the relationships thus allowing the player to 100% roleplay what they want to do.
Apart from not being able to give some loving to super mutants, sadly.
Also, Jim. I will take you up on the offer of "adequate pleasure" if you visit the UK in the near future.
So, I don't understand what's so great about this.
That the game doesn't do anything to acknowledge it?
I mean, really it ought to have an impact on your relationships. Not to paint you as a 'bad guy', but because that is typically how people respond. The characters having no reaction to it doesn't seem progressive at all. It would be different if the characters in the game were supportive, and not idiotically oblivious as I assume to be the case.
That the game doesn't do anything to acknowledge it?
I mean, really it ought to have an impact on your relationships. Not to paint you as a 'bad guy', but because that is typically how people respond. The characters having no reaction to it doesn't seem progressive at all. It would be different if the characters in the game were supportive, and not idiotically oblivious as I assume to be the case.
Messofanego
Banned
It's the post apocalypse. There are very few humans. Who wants to get into relationship monogamous drama rather than have open relationships? You're not going to live long anyway. I'm sure we can imagine a fantasy world where partners don't have to be jealous wrecks when surviving is more important than who boinked whom. It can't even be considered "two timing" or cheating if everyone's cool with it.
I don't think people complain about Jim getting something out of it. More that Betheseda doesn't really deserve praise because it looks more like a design choice with an accidental consequence, than an intended statement.
But it's good to bring up that this kind of representation (which I don't think I have ever heard talked about) is wanted so developers might actually consciously create polygamous characters in the future.
romancing NPCs was never a big thing for me. what I wanted/hoped in Mass Effect was, that I would have the option to create some relationship drama by dating/romancing multiple crew members. kind of playing an asshole that's also the saviour of the galaxy.
still hoping for some jealousy feature in games.
still hoping for some jealousy feature in games.
See, I take issue with this line off thought. Dumbing down NPCs into winnable trophies is not role playing. Just because your role playing does not mean you automatically deserve to have everything your role want. You're choices and actions should still have consequences in the world.
Yep. Look at Alpha Protocol for a case of multiple 'relationships' handled well. You could have sex with almost every female character in the game and if you did others reacted to it. It allowed you to roleplay 100% without losing the feeling that what you did affected the way others saw you. Bethesda generally says 'fuck it' to the last part.
This seems more like they didn't bother to program something when you got it on with two NPCs. It sounds like the NPCs never acknowledge this is happening. So this system is more cheating on the other NPC without them finding out or Bethesda didn't bother coding in a system for having 2 partners.
I guess if you're super into polygamy this is interesting to you, maybe? I dunno, this really doesn't seem like a big deal at all.
I guess if you're super into polygamy this is interesting to you, maybe? I dunno, this really doesn't seem like a big deal at all.
Jim Sterling
Member
Sometimes doing nothing is surprisingly groundbreaking, especially in a world where others put effort into gating off the options.
GeordieMark
Member
Yeah, this is what I took from it too. Its my biggest gripe TES and Fallout games.
They are fun sandboxes, but they are pretty shallow.
And sometimes doing nothing is just being lazy.