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Apparently, SSBB had no other developers who worked on previous SSB titles

As someone not in the competitive scene, Brawl's most glaring sin, and what puts it irremediably below SSBM in my eyes (whereas Melee is Top 5 From All Time material to me) is the loss of soul.

I could go on with my thoughts about Break The Targets, Event Matches, Bonus Points and such, but concerns with those features have been voiced already on this thread, so I'm going to focus on an aspect seldom discussed when talking about this: the trophies. Even if you personally couldn't care less about them, I think they're the perfect example to differentiate between the passion found in both games.

Trophies were fun in Melee. Their very nature instigate the player to do everything on his/her hands to obtain them. It's an achievement, and in a game in which you have to work your way into victory, it fits very well. However, what I truly found attractive was what they symbolized; Nintendo's rich history. So what if that blue haired swordsman was someone I had never seen before? I just needed to collect his trophy and give it a read. It would give me insight on the Smash world, educating me about the Big N's past, present, and even future (Luigi's Mansion, Pikmin and Animal Crossing figurines come to mind).

I was fascinated by both the concept and its execution. It was one of the best aspects of Melee for me. Finding out about the relevance of that character you used you much because they "looked cool", their background, important element from their adventures..."I'm not collecting mere Golden Trophies to prove I accomplished a certain goal, I'm slowly piecing up the company's legacy!" Games you didn't even know that existed and that, thanks to the trophies, made you care. Variety, people. It wasn't just the generic offerings you would expect. Bowser's Clown-Copter! Raphael the Raven! The ride from Pokemon Snap! Marin! Kirby Hats!! A Gamecube!!! It's pretty evident, in both the selection and descriptions (quirkiness was at the order of the day), that actual effort was put on this. Plenty of it, in fact.

I am sad, then, to perceive Brawl's selection as largely inferior to Melee, despite winning in the quantity department. There's this feeling I experiment with Brawl's choices...They don't seem to be picked up with a lot of inspiration, nor by someone truly in love with Nintendo's past. On the contrary, it transmits the message that the motivation behind their inclusion in Brawl is mere promotion for currently released games. Seriously. Look at the Nintendo category and tell me a classic game represented there that isn't an Assist Trophy or item. The only trophies that do not fall under that category are (for the time) new DS games. Who feels nostalgia for games released within the last 2 years?

When that isn't the case, most of the time the trophy focuses on games which are represented via a stage, ATs or stage hazards. I don't think they had fun. I think they perceived the trophies' selection as a chore. "Oh, we have this item/AT/hazard, damn now we have to make a trophy for it..." , it's just generic. Final Smashes had to have a trophy, but they actually look like they gave a damn about making them. Why just them? The worst offender is the Subspace Emissary category. 58 fricking trophies, when series like Mother, Wario, Yoshi, Kid Icarus and Fire Emblem are underrepresented. And 40+ showcase the horrendously generic enemies. I don't care about generic trophies from my beloved Nintendo series; you think I care about these uninspired designs created just to have something to punch or avoid on SSE?

There are no risks taken. Brawl plays it safe, promoting new releases and making trophies for things in the game. But where's the fun in that? The level of lost potential is almost depressing. Where are our surprises, our nostalgia, our creative trophies? I expected wacky, clever, creative offerings. The Fly Swatter Hand from Mario Paint, the Mic from Hey You Pikachu!, The Rod of Seasons and the Harp of Ages from Zelda, Pauline from DK, Captain Syrup and her pirate crew from the Wario Land games, Mother's Gyigas, the Eggplant Wizard from Kid Icarus, the stories from characters I don't know about from Fire Emblem...

That the development of the game focused heavily on SSE and thus, left little room in comparison for attention to other elements, is irrelevant to the fact that doing so deprived these returning game modes from the passion found in the past. As evidenced by the trophies ... and not just them.

The main problem with dozens of composers is that it results in a soundtrack that doesn't gel together or resemble a cohesive end product. Like the rest of the game, the music feels as if it's thrown into a gigantic pile without any effort to weave it all together.

Reminds me of Mugen or something.

Not to mention that there was more creativity in Melee's original soundtrack than there was in Brawl's, by ten country miles. Just a couple examples:

Target Test in Melee.

Target Test in Brawl.

Trophy's Theme in Melee

Trophy's Theme in Brawl
 
The main problem with dozens of composers is that it results in a soundtrack that doesn't gel together or resemble a cohesive end product. Like the rest of the game, the music feels as if it's thrown into a gigantic pile without any effort to weave it all together.

Reminds me of Mugen or something.

I agree with this. Having FORTY LEGENDARY COMPOSERS seemed cool at first, but you then end up with 40 different styles of music which ends up not meshing well together.
 
You echoed my thoughts perfectly. I often criticized Brawl's choice of Trophies, but I didn't know how to explain it quite as well as you did here. I normally hate using words like "soul" and "charm" to convey that I didn't like some aspect about a game, but those words really are the only ones that I feel are applicable.

The Brawl main theme was amazing, but I quickly grew tired of it after hearing so many variations.

Even the Pokemon selection lacked something special, and I honestly can't explain what it is. Maybe nostalgia is clouding my perception, but I was always really excited to throw a Pokeball and see what came out. I wasn't as excited in Brawl for some (probably unjustifiable) reason.
 
Most of the pokeball pokemon in brawl were too weak/useless and only 3 could be on the screen at the time so that's not surprising :p
 
Most of the pokeball pokemon in brawl were too weak/useless and only 3 could be on the screen at the time so that's not surprising :p

I completely forgot about that. That was terrible!

I like the Trophy Theme in Brawl better. Very chill.

I can't recall if Brawl allowed this (since I only spent a little time in the gallery), but you could select any song to play in the gallery using the Sound Test in Melee. I always chose Mother 2.
 
Trophies were fun in Melee. Their very nature instigate the player to do everything on his/her hands to obtain them. It's an achievement, and in a game in which you have to work your way into victory, it fits very well. However, what I truly found attractive was what they symbolized; Nintendo's rich history. So what if that blue haired swordsman was someone I had never seen before? I just needed to collect his trophy and give it a read. It would give me insight on the Smash world, educating me about the Big N's past, present, and even future (Luigi's Mansion, Pikmin and Animal Crossing figurines come to mind).

I was fascinated by both the concept and its execution. It was one of the best aspects of Melee for me. Finding out about the relevance of that character you used you much because they "looked cool", their background, important element from their adventures..."I'm not collecting mere Golden Trophies to prove I accomplished a certain goal, I'm slowly piecing up the company's legacy!" Games you didn't even know that existed and that, thanks to the trophies, made you care. Variety, people. It wasn't just the generic offerings you would expect. Bowser's Clown-Copter! Raphael the Raven! The ride from Pokemon Snap! Marin! Kirby Hats!! A Gamecube!!! It's pretty evident, in both the selection and descriptions (quirkiness was at the order of the day), that actual effort was put on this. Plenty of it, in fact.

Well said.

One of the best things that differentiated Melee from its predecessor, and made it appear as something more than just a quick cash-in sequel, was that it was essentially a Nintendo history museum on a disc. I absolutely loved that aspect of the game.

It would be pretty awesome if for SSB4 we had trophies or whatever where you get little known info about past Nintendo games. Kinda like a little developer's diary.
 
Well said.

One of the best things that differentiated Melee from its predecessor, and made it appear as something more than just a quick cash-in sequel, was that it was essentially a Nintendo history museum on a disc. I absolutely loved that aspect of the game.

It would be pretty awesome if for SSB4 we had trophies or whatever where you get little known info about past Nintendo games. Kinda like a little developer's diary.

You mean like in brawl.

Or are we pretending brawl did everything wrong ever. what that guy even suggest is silly especially something so subjective i don't even think i can be held against the game
 
Is Sakurai officially a Nintendo employee again?
 
It can be good to get fresh eyes on developing sequels to games.

Brawl was fun! So wierd to hear people say it out right sucked. It's not really a competitive game, players made it that way. SSBB is a very fun party fighting game.
 
It's a joke.

gKIE5oq.png
 
You mean like in brawl.

Or are we pretending brawl did everything wrong ever. what that guy even suggest is silly especially something so subjective i don't even think i can be held against the game

Yeah, I think Brawl did everything better in terms of features, just not gameplay.. From showing Nintendo's legacy and history, the music, to even the roster, that was all great.

But the gameplay was such a step down in every way. SSE was boring and just not interesting, things were slowed down and floaty. And that's not even getting into the online... Sakurai went out of his way to make Brawl have as little of a competitive element as possible. I mean why be so spiteful like that? Tripping? Come on.

Maybe Melee wasn't supposed to be as competitive as it became, but it was still a far better game in terms of gameplay and mechanics.

But despite all that, Brawl was still a great game. I don't think it's terrible by any means (well, maybe except competitively... and the online).
 
Yeah, I think Brawl did everything better in terms of features, just not gameplay.. From showing Nintendo's legacy and history, the music, to even the roster, that was all great.

But the gameplay was such a step down in every way. SSE was boring and just not interesting, things were slowed down and floaty. And that's not even getting into the online... Sakurai went out of his way to make Brawl have as little of a competitive element as possible. I mean why be so spiteful like that? Tripping? Come on.

Maybe Melee wasn't supposed to be as competitive as it became, but it was still a far better game in terms of gameplay and mechanics.

Eh I think the melee brawl mechanics argument subjective, aside from tripping I know may people who prefer brawls mechanics to melee.

And as far as SSE goes, while it isnt the best story, its better than the nothing we got in melee.
 
You mean like in brawl.

Or are we pretending brawl did everything wrong ever. what that guy even suggest is silly especially something so subjective i don't even think i can be held against the game

I didn't say that.
 
I guess that explains why Brawl felt so different from the other two. I wonder if any of the 64/Melee vets are back for 4?





Can we not do this in every single thread about Brawl? Please?

The worst part is that even people who never played Brawl jump on the bandwagon.
 
Interesting, I did not know that and would not have even guessed it. The series changed dramatically from SSB64 to SSBM, and less so from SSBM to SSBB.
 
Brawl haters secretly love Brawl because it gives them an excuse to make long-winded posts about the depth and complexity of Melee on the internet.
 
Am I the only one who noticed that the "random" in Brawl was screwed up, in terms of items, pokeballs and assist trophies?
 
Delightful, long, insightful post

Thank you. Thank you so much. This is basically exactly how I feel about Melee vs. Brawl.

It's not about balance, it's not about tripping. It's certainly not about wavedashing. It's about one game that absolutely trumps the other in everything except character number.

Melee was a joy to play in basically every way. To this day I can have a good amount of fun going through All-Star or Adventure mode with a character or two. Brawl is... still good, mind you, but much less so. All of its single player modes (literally ALL of them) are repetitive and uninspired, which is unacceptable coming after Melee's good balance between multiplayer and single player.
 
What bizarre alternate universe do I live in where Brawl outright sucks?

Maybe it's disappointing to super competitive player who must know that they represent maybe 4% of the people who play the game, but sucks?

Really?

It's the internet. Nothing is allowed to be "Okay".. Either something is 'amazing' or 'the worst piece of fucking shit ever'.
 
Most of the pokeball pokemon in brawl were too weak/useless and only 3 could be on the screen at the time so that's not surprising :p

Wow, I never realized that :O

Sakurai really did try to suck all the fun out of Smash Bros with Brawl(and succeeded magnificently).

Also, chalk me down as Melee soundtrack > Brawl soundtrack. That said, Brawl did have some really nice music, but I was sick of the main Uematsu theme after about 5 mins, god I hated that theme more than anything.
 
Note the copyright on the bottom of the official site for Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS/Wii U:
01b2t5Q.jpg

I don't know, but doesn't that imply that HAL's got a heavy bit of involvement in the development of the 3DS/Wii U installments?
 
Is Sakurai officially a Nintendo employee again?
No, he's still independent and technically works for Sora.

Edit: There's always confusion surrounding this, but yes, Sora still exists. It's the company Sakurai formed to represent himself as an independent contractor. Project Sora was the development team Sakurai put together to make Kid Icarus: Uprising which doesn't exist anymore.
 
Note the copyright on the bottom of the official site for Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS/Wii U:
01b2t5Q.jpg

I don't know, but doesn't that imply that HAL's got a heavy bit of involvement in the development of the 3DS/Wii U installments?

This also appears on the bottom of the official site for Super Smash Bros. Brawl.

Yes. Sakurai created Kirby while working at Hal Labs when he was 19.

I wish I could have created an iconic video game character at the age of nineteen.
 
Cool, new blood is a good thing. Especially if they come to the project with fresh ideas and concepts from years of being players themselves or at least observing players and what most fighters take away from their matches.
 
No wonder it was so much worse! Now I don't have hope for the new one.

Nintendo has been doing a great job on the 3DS. It's been a bit of a renaissance for them. I hope that translates over to the Wii U.
 
No wonder Brawl sucked.

My friends and I religiously played SSB64 up until the release of Melee. We then played Melee religiously from the release of the game all the way up to the release of Brawl. We played Brawl for two months and completely stopped playing Smash altogether.

Such a slow, floaty, and boring game with broken online and a completely asinine 'gameplay' mechanics. My hype for Smash 4 keep cratering with each new Sakurai interview.
 
No, he's still independent and technically works for Sora.

Edit: There's always confusion surrounding this, but yes, Sora still exists. It's the company Sakurai formed to represent himself as an independent contractor. Project Sora was the development team Sakurai put together to make Kid Icarus: Uprising which doesn't exist anymore.

Well everything he has done besides Meteos has been a Nintendo project. I don't get. What about the rumors of Sakurai leading his own team at EAD Tokyo?
 
Sakurai doesn't want to make this game any more...
let him move on

If he really doesn't, I don't understand why he doesn't at least take more of a producer/overseer role and let somebody else take the reigns. That way, he can do more original products (or at least different ones).

After all, it's not like HAL and Kirby haven't been doing just fine without him...
 
The one thing I missed most from Brawl is the post match stats / achievments like In The Frey, Master Of Suspense and Life On The Edge.

I had convinced myself that it was an unlockable feature as there was an empty third column tab next to the normal post match stats. I was sad when that was not the case.
 
The main problem with dozens of composers is that it results in a soundtrack that doesn't gel together or resemble a cohesive end product. Like the rest of the game, the music feels as if it's thrown into a gigantic pile without any effort to weave it all together.

Reminds me of Mugen or something.

Melee's overall presentation was much more cohesive than Brawl's. Had a classy, battle royale tone, that was even reflected in the title. Brawl's tone was all over the place.

That said, I adored the Brawl version of Stickerbrush Symphony.
 
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