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Kotaku: The pizza party where everyone got fired, developer layoff stories

Last story was awful for the family involved but at my count, the couple in that last story had 4 kids. Given their situation, that is at least 2 kids too many.

I mean, really, at what point did they not realize that maybe their situation was a tad bit precarious that putting out another mouth to feed might be over their heads already, given the history of the husband's work? There were two of them; one of them should have been smart enough to say, "Oh hey, our three other kids must be having a hard time with how our situation is; let's try and not have another one until we become financially stable."
 

I guess I need to put:

source: in the industry with multiple pubs and devs since 2004. its just my experience but its actual experience, so I assume that counts for something.

don't let me get in the way of your AAA hate train though...
 
I guess I need to put:

source: in the industry with multiple pubs and devs since 2004. its just my experience but its actual experience, so I assume that counts for something.

don't let me get in the way of your AAA hate train though...

maybe things are wonderful at your pay grade. that's great
 
Reminds me of this:

qw9R0k0.png

"When do we get our new office?"
 
Last story was awful for the family involved but at my count, the couple in that last story had 4 kids. Given their situation, that is at least 2 kids too many.

I mean, really, at what point did they not realize that maybe their situation was a tad bit precarious that putting out another mouth to feed might be over their heads already, given the history of the husband's work? There were two of them; one of them should have been smart enough to say, "Oh hey, our three other kids must be having a hard time with how our situation is; let's try and not have another one until we become financially stable."
For what it's worth, it seems like he had a relatively successful history in the industry before they decided to relocate, and then got super unlucky that the time he chose to switch companies was during the transition to the HD-era when the industry pretty much started to shit itself.
 
I apologize if I'm not the first one to mention this (I've only read the first page) but, in response to that last story: let's not get carried away with our pity just yet. We've only read one side of the (admittedly horrendously sad) story.

I don't want to victim-shame or anything - far from it - but: how the fuck would it pop up in your head to have a fifth child during the most stressful period of your life!? During layoff after layoff!? That just screams of a lack of responsibility, especially considering the fact that they already had four children to take care of.

I don't know: maybe he got laid off everywhere, constantly, because... he wasn't good at his job?

Again, I'm not saying he was a shit employee; I'm merely saying that, heartwrenching as the story may be, we only know their side of the story. And a lot of elements in it don't sound too favorable when it comes to their judgment.

EDIT: LOL, never mind, seems this is already being discussed. My bad.
 
I apologize if I'm not the first one to mention this (I've only read the first page) but, in response to that last story: let's not get carried away with our pity just yet. We've only read one side of the (admittedly horrendously sad) story.

I don't want to victim-shame or anything - far from it - but: how the fuck would it pop up in your head to have a fifth child during the most stressful period of your life!? During layoff after layoff!? That just screams of a lack of responsibility, especially considering the fact that they already had four children to take care of.

I don't know: maybe he got laid off everywhere, constantly, because... he wasn't good at his job?

Again, I'm not saying he was a shit employee; I'm merely saying that, heartwrenching as the story may be, we only know their side of the story. And a lot of elements in it don't sound too favorable when it comes to their judgment.
Yes

They made some bad choices

The industry is still a fucked up place.
 
I cannot believe the parents of the last story. The real tragedy there are the kids. Why the hell do you decide to even risk bringing another life into that mess? I just feel that there were so many opportunities to just... stop. So many that they didn't take, because of a persistence towards an unrealistic dream? The children shouldn't have to suffer through that.
 
Yes

They made some bad choices

The industry is still a fucked up place.

Oh, definitely.

But, having seen many industries from the inside (it's kind of what I do) I can say that most industries are, especially the ones in entertainment. I'm not making excuses (the 5000-miles move story was proper WTF) but again, we have no way to see how good of an employee the people in these stories were.
 
RE: the last story.
Each job lasted about a year. How long does it take to find out you've got a bad employee?

I don't think he had anything to do with LucasArts closing, but who knows...
Going by the assumed timeline of events, he also seemed to have been with the first place (the one before they relocated) for several years, which would seem to go against the idea that he was bad at his job and couldn't hold on to one because of that.
 
Every time my girlfriend suggests I should look in to working for a video game dev since I love video games so much, I tell her of stories like these. That last story. Holy shit.
 
These are awful stories, but when companies give you the boot there isn't much you can do. It sounds like if you don't run the company you shouldn't get comfortable. You have to be A. gifted beyond words or B. Know enough people to not get fired. There's possibly a C. Been there for multiple years; how dare they fire me? But otherwise this is scarier than a lot of other stories. It's not like the Atari documentary where the guys would drink booze, smoke pot, and get a severance check for their hard work (ie. questioning pay). Now a days you get fired for whatever and whenever. It doesn't always have to be because the studio did poorly.

That first story is awful. What a way to say "F*** you" than being told you're fired after a party. Half the time you see video documentaries and they're throwing parties inside the development studio on a normal day. A lot of MS ex employees come out with a 6 digit salary and they have enough money to get by. Who knows what these people are spending on rent since these studios are typically located in some of the states with the highest living costs. It's probably more comfortable for the people who started a foundation in the industry and know how to treat people on a personal level. That exists and God bless them. The other side sounds awful.

Make your own game company is what this article means to me, unless you know someone or you're close to someone who is at the top. LOL "Here's your pizza, let's have some fun, okay guys... "you're all fired!"".

I'd wipe my ass with those slips too
That's when creativity doesn't mean anything to living life. Respect for the arts can wait a while. You have to eat, sleep, and live life.
 
I find it pretty shocking that as a parent yourself, you would say this. Providing such an environment for your children is much, much more than having a permanent full time job in the same place. If I was unemployed and starving, I would still provide that for my kids. At any cost. Even if it wasn't irrelevant to the topic, we have no right to judge them for that at all. We don't have anywhere near enough information to make that call.

Or just don't have sex if your beliefs are so damn important to you. There's pretty much just one way babies happen, it is not that hard to prevent.

These. Once you have a kid, your free time is over. It's no longer about you, as they come first before yourself.
 
I don't need to dream. I own a game dev house. Let me list some of our benefits taken from our website.

  • We fully cover the cost of medical, dental and vision benefits for both the employee and their family. (this also applies to significant others, not just married individuals.)
  • We also provide a 401K program with the highest match a company can legally give.
  • We offer unlimited time-off, recognizing that we employ craftsmen who are committed to what they do, and understand how to balance vacation and time off with making a great game.
  • We also shut down for 2.5 weeks for winter holidays.
  • We have quarterly game days, an Annual Idea Jam Week, Company Movie Nights,
  • Summer Picnic, board games, and other fun ad-hoc events.
  • We also sponsor and participate in a Soccer Team in the local Game Developer League.
We've never done mass layoffs after a project. We have let go for 4 people at once, twice in our 11 year history... not for monetary reasons, but simply they weren't working out. I wouldn't handle it that way again though. It's bad. We also get to work on fun new original projects. And we try hard not to crunch, but zero crunch is impossible. But we try very hard to schedule away from it and definitely limit it. We don't require anyone to stay weekends like some studios do. It's bad.

I've only worked at one studio that had similar perks, but that company went bankrupt and since then I've been temp or the studio closes down. Yup I have bad luck with studios like the dude in the OP.
 
I wonder to what extent this is a Game Industry thing vs an AMERICAN Game Industry thing.

I mean, obviously it's a shaky industry and layoffs happen everywhere, but the kind of assholish treatment described in this article, particularly people being laid off right after a project, is something that I'm not sure happens in other countries (or does this happen in Europe as well?).

I work for a Japanese game dev and they most definitely don't pull shit like this.
 
For what it's worth, it seems like he had a relatively successful history in the industry before they decided to relocate, and then got super unlucky that the time he chose to switch companies was during the transition to the HD-era when the industry pretty much started to shit itself.

Which would be understandable if not for the fact that they chose to have the 4th child while they were already deep into the whole "laid off then relocate" loop, and apparently without setting aside enough for a fallback. In fact, the company that laid them off at the time when she was 7 months pregnant was the first company to have given them notice of her husband's lay-off and they were thankful for it. Which means that companies prior to that, they should already have enough time to say "Whoa, wait, we're not stable enough. Maybe we should set aside some cash for a rainy day and not have more kids in the meantime."
 
Stories like this made me glad I don't work in this industry. You'd have to live somewhere you can get by without paying rent for awhile to stay safe, it seems...
 
I wonder to what extent this is a Game Industry thing vs an AMERICAN Game Industry thing.

I mean, obviously it's a shaky industry and layoffs happen everywhere, but the kind of assholish treatment described in this article, particularly people being laid off right after a project, is something that I'm not sure happens in other countries (or does this happen in Europe as well?).

I work for a Japanese game dev and they most definitely don't pull shit like this.

Japan also has a day where they celebrate going into the workforce. Cheaper clothes, equipment, etc, etc. Japanese businesses treat their workers like family. I think it's true in other Asian countries as well. They'll take their team to temples and mediation resorts. They have much more respect for their employees.

I think it's whoever is in charge makes the rules in NA. They get hired, call the shots, and the good guys stay while the bad ones get fired. I don't think there's a boss out there working with their team unless it's to give them a warning (not always true). Think about all the people that get hired and fired in America. It's like a factory shipping out products. As long as the product is made nothing else matters. That means they go through staff like no tomorrow. The game design portion is just taking off of what other companies have done. They all do the hire and fire process. It's just one is built on creative and talented people and of course funds to make the product. You can't mass produce games in a factory either. You have to have your guided team doing everything or they work somewhere in the middle of corporate doing business related stuff. Not everyone is a big time Game Producer. The guys at the top stay in the spotlight for years and they get any job they desire. Half the guys sitting at the top have money to last them a while too. The people under them probably make enough to pay the monthly bills and that's it.

Big time game designer: 100k roughly? (if they're famous probably more)
Team: probably under 50k if not less

Who does better when things fall apart, granted they didn't blow all their money?

Who gets to stay around because of their name?
 
Which would be understandable if not for the fact that they chose to have the 4th child while they were already deep into the whole "laid off then relocate" loop, and apparently without setting aside enough for a fallback. In fact, the company that laid them off at the time when she was 7 months pregnant was the first company to have given them notice of her husband's lay-off and they were thankful for it. Which means that companies prior to that, they should already have enough time to say "Whoa, wait, we're not stable enough. Maybe we should set aside some cash for a rainy day and not have more kids in the meantime."

And how long is acceptable to wait to determine that things are stable? What I takeaway from this article is that this industry is pretty much never secure.

Should no game developer ever have kids?
 
Reading all of that article reminds me of the fact that to this day publishers and developers still don't know how to manage. They are terrible at management, which I have no idea why the industry is not that young anymore by this time they should know how to run a god damn company.
 
And how long is acceptable to wait to determine that things are stable? What I takeaway from this article is that this industry is pretty much never secure.

Should no game developer ever have kids?

They already have kids. Three of them, in fact. Do you think putting another one into this Earth given their situation was a responsible thing to do?
 
Never say never. One day, that bubble's going to burst, especially due to obscene development costs & bloated budgets for development & advertising.

AAA games will release less frequently, but no bubble is going to burst. At least, not within the next 5-10 years.
 
Dear God at that last story. At some point you simply need to switch industries, with maybe an attempt to go indie as last-ditch effort to remain in game development.
 
That last one makes me happy to live in a place where something like that can't happen. Will even save the story for those who plead for depleting worker's rights.

I mean wtf, the family was pretty much a slave to whoever offered a job for the father.
 
Exhausting to read. I've been let go more times than I can recall at this point myself. This is also part of why am I 40 and still unmarried, no kids - living in socal & working in the games or VFX industries is tumultuous these days (well.. for many years now). I've been out of proper games for half a decade now and so happy to have adapted to something else. Yes of course the guys at my current gig complain about how things are, but then we remember where we came from and suddenly we feel extremely, extremely lucky.

I'll say this though, and it's something I learned long ago - when you get laid off, you are absolutely partially to blame. No one is truly caught by surprise when it happens, unless you are the sort who shows up at the office, slips on your headphones, and remains blissfully unaware of the state of things for not only your immediate company, but the larger industry. For so many years now it's been nearly effortless to keep tabs on the state of things as a whole, and you are just being irresponsible if you are not paying attention to the business your company is currently doing and how things are looking down the road. It doesn't mean that you can necessarily avoid a layoff (or no take a job at a "threatened studio,") but it means you will absolutely have the upper hand for when that dark day does come (and maybe you can even beat them to the punch).

I've seen more than my share of people who suddenly got blindsided when they got let go after X amount of years from some place, and I'd say "are you kidding, your game didn't sell, the one before that didn't sell, the series is very obviously getting cancelled, etc." Yeah, just because you make games doesn't mean you like to play them avidly, I get that. But that doesn't excuse you from paying attention to the business at large on both the small and large levels. It just means you are irresponsible. And if you own a home and have mouths to feed, then all the more so. To be fair, it was not always like that and several people cruised through the first decade of this century enjoying high salaries, steady work, fat bonuses, and I can understand how it would come as a shock. But when a few years have passed and you start seeing more and more of your buddies getting let go from other studios with heavier frequency, you've got a number on your back unless you are the dude at the top of the food chain or damned close to it.. don't stick your head in the sand.
 
Dear God at that last story. At some point you simply need to switch industries, with maybe an attempt to go indie as last-ditch effort to remain in game development.


Maybe when you're young you could do it, like a traveling nurse sort to speak. When you're older you have more responsibilities and sometimes life gets in the way of everything.

The industry is maturing for the right people. It isn't maturing for the solid job market unless you know for sure it's going to be a successful job. I can't even imagine the amount of depression that exists outside these stories. You could retire from a company without ever having to push out a product.
 
They already have kids. Three of them, in fact. Do you think putting another one into this Earth given their situation was a responsible thing to do?

Not necessarily. But I'm not judging them for it.

FWIW, that pregnancy occurred while they were at one of the better employers(they gave them 2 months notice, and tried to help with finding other local employment), and they'd been there longer than any of the other jobs they listed.

But the article doesn't go into a lot of detail about how stable/unstable each situation seemed.
 
Not necessarily. But I'm not judging them for it.

FWIW, that pregnancy occurred while they were at one of the better employers(they gave them 2 months notice, and tried to help with finding other local employment), and they'd been there longer than any of the other jobs they listed.

But the article doesn't go into a lot of detail about how stable/unstable each situation seemed.
And besides, they live in a freaking 1st world country. The last thing we need to do is victim blame because they are trying to live their life in a depressing pile of shit industry. The wrongs are being done were the dollars flow freely, not by the family.
 
I'll say this though, and it's something I learned long ago - when you get laid off, you are absolutely partially to blame. No one is truly caught by surprise when it happens, unless you are the sort who shows up at the office, slips on your headphones, and remains blissfully unaware of the state of things for not only your immediate company, but the larger industry. For so many years now it's been nearly effortless to keep tabs on the state of things as a whole, and you are just being irresponsible if you are not paying attention to the business your company is currently doing and how things are looking down the road. It doesn't mean that you can necessarily avoid a layoff (or no take a job at a "threatened studio,") but it means you will absolutely have the upper hand for when that dark day does come (and maybe you can even beat them to the punch).

This isn't necessarily true at all. There are an infinite number of reasons that people in the industry can be laid off that have nothing to do with any individual person at a given studio.

In my most recent experience there was a producer working for our publisher who was overseeing two projects our studio was working on, among many others. The game I was on was a few weeks away from alpha when said producer was fired for incompetence (and I assume being an ass in general).

Instead of the publisher doing any type of research into the projects he was heading up, they opted to axe all of them. Nobody could believe it. We were so close to release, and with a good product. The studio didn't have the cash to float that many employees, so the vast majority of us were laid off. All because of some dumb corporate bullshit.

The point is that nobody had a way to see it coming. All the feedback we were getting was good. Everyone reviewing/testing the game on the publisher's end had very good impressions of it. All it took was that one asshole producer to go down and take us with him.
 
I dont understand the last one. Yeh its so shitty they went through that, but 4 kids with no stable income and continuing to follow the same path that has not worked for over a decade? At some point you need to look at your life and decide what is more important and I'd have looked i to more stable career paths long before this.
 
Exhausting to read.

This isn't necessarily true at all. There are an infinite number of reasons that people in the industry can be laid off that have nothing to do with any individual person at a given studio.

In my most recent experience there was a producer working for our publisher who was overseeing two projects our studio was working on, among many others. The game I was on was a few weeks away from alpha when said producer was fired for incompetence (and I assume being an ass in general).

Instead of the publisher doing any type of research into the projects he was heading up, they opted to axe all of them. Nobody could believe it. We were so close to release, and with a good product. The studio didn't have the cash to float that many employees, so the vast majority of us were laid off. All because of some dumb corporate bullshit.

The point is that nobody had a way to see it coming. All the feedback we were getting was good. Everyone reviewing/testing the game on the publisher's end had very good impressions of it. All it took was that one asshole producer to go down and take us with him.

Sounds like a lot of talent out there should just do their own thing. From the looks of everything you guys all sound incredibly talented. I'd use it for your own gain without someone else calling the shots.
 
Getting pizza and bowling as a farewell gift? That's genuinely pretty awesome, I never get anything when I'm out of work for a while.
 
Layoffs happen. It is not necessary fault of the people being laid off. Saying people know it is coming really isn't always true. Companies do not tell the truth to their employees a lot of times and will keep them in the dark. This is not just game industry but other industries too. It is unfortunate that this happens. Companies can lay off just to be more profitable just because they want to be. All very sad.

Saying talent should do their own thing doesn't help. Sure there are lots of talented people but doing own thing requires money. Not everyone has the money to sustain themselves and/or their families to create a game which can compete on current markets and sustain their livelihood. It is rather competitive out there and just because someone's talented, doesn't mean their game will sell. After all, just because a game is good, doesn't mean it will sell.
 
It's stories like these that makes me remember are refocus my own goals right now. As someone who's barely setting foot in a potential studio setting up, I'm really paranoid about making a bunch of mistakes, and reading things like this helps to keep the perspective. Nothing's ever truly clean, but there's always something that you can do to make it less shitty for the people you're screwing over.
 
That last story is so heartbreaking. Specially for their kids, 9th grader went thru 9 schools. That means they move on average once a year.

I was deadset on pursuing computer programming when I was still picking my University Degree. My highschool guidance counsellor suggested to take Civil Engineer instead based on my entrance exam. I wouldn't say i made the right choice, as my passion for gaming is greater than ever. But at least I know my line of work is pretty stable and i'm very thankful for it.

I'd still love to work in the gaming industry if given the chance though :)
 
I hope anyone who has ever non-ironically said 'lazy devs' before reads all of these articles. The fact is the people who make our games often do it at the cost of their blood, sweat and tears.

Thanks for posting this. I hate that term for this exact reason.
 
Maybe you should tell go find his youngest kid and tell him that he's a financial burden to his father.

Maybe you should stop creating some stupid strawman to defend what is arguably a stupid decision by both parents?

Or maybe you can find their children and ask them how comfortable they were during that period in their lives?
 
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