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Wishmaster92
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(03-12-2014, 03:09 AM)
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http://www.*****************/2014/03/...n-really-fast/

Posted yet? Lock if old.

Originally Posted by ElTorro

Here is a video of the talk: http://www.*****************/2014/03/...our-long-talk/

First of all, Gregory explained that while 8 gigabytes of ram seem like a lot, only five are allocated to games, and they can be filled up quite easily:

Even in the PlayStation 4 you have 5 gigs, which seems like a lot but you’ll be amazed by how quickly it fills up.

Memory fragmentation is one of the worst enemies, because it causes a game to run out of memory a lot faster than it normally would. Naughty Dog solves that by custom-tailoring memory allocators to match the software’s allocation patterns.
The studio also uses explicit memory maps in their engine, that tells at any given time where the memory is being used and what kind of memory it is.

There are 8 CPU cores, that are “higher quality more powerful processors than what you have on the main CPU of the PS3,” and they’re organized into two clusters.
Gregory also explains that the GPU is “more powerful than it’s necessary to render graphics at 1080p at 60 hz” and that the idea of the designers of the PS4 was to give extra GPU resources because it’s “incredibly good at doing massive amounts of parallel processing” and they envisioned that game designers are going to take advance of that processing to do physics, cloth simulation, and fluids and more on the GPU.

More at the link.


[IMG]http://cdn.*****************/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/NDPS4_1.jpg[/IMG]

With the PS3 Naughty Dog developed in conjunction with Sony’s ICE team a “Job system” to use the multi core CPU system, and a similar one has been created for the PS4.

[IMG]http://cdn.*****************/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/NDPS4_2-571x425.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://cdn2.*****************/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/NDPS4_3-567x425.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://cdn2.*****************/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/NDPS4_4-565x425.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://cdn.*****************/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/NDPS4_5-565x425.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://cdn2.*****************/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/NDPS4_6-568x425.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://cdn.*****************/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/NDPS4_7-568x425.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://cdn.*****************/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/NDPS4_8-571x425.jpg[/IMG]

Last edited by Wishmaster92; 03-12-2014 at 03:18 AM.
xxracerxx
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(03-12-2014, 03:09 AM)
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Very, very excited to see what Naughty Dog can do with the PS4. It shall be glorious.
Makai
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(03-12-2014, 03:10 AM)
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That makes a lot of sense.
ElTorro
I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
(03-12-2014, 03:12 AM)
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If the PS4 still reserves 2 cores for the OS, then Matt's statement that you can get more out of the PS4's CPU than of the XBO's might imply that the CPU clocks higher than 1.6Ghz. Or the XBO suffers from virtualization overhead on every core, but that's AFAIK unlikely in multi-core systems.
SHADES
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(03-12-2014, 03:12 AM)
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Make it sing Naughty Dog Gods!
poodpick
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(03-12-2014, 03:12 AM)
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Does this mean that devs have access to 6 cpu cores?
Persona7
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(03-12-2014, 03:12 AM)
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But will the naughty dog games be a locked 60FPS with no frame drops and native 1080p?
stryke
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(03-12-2014, 03:12 AM)
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http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=782892

Same talk discussed here
ghst
thanks for the laugh
(03-12-2014, 03:13 AM)
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six jaguar cores and only 5GBs of RAM available to devs?

ouch. explains a few things.
Last edited by ghst; 03-12-2014 at 03:19 AM.
RoboPlato
I'd be in the dick
(03-12-2014, 03:14 AM)
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Really clear description. Nice.

6 cores confirmed for the CPU. Based on previous benchmarks, there's a chance that the PS4 CPU is clocked higher than XBO's or the XBO CPU has some added overhead for the OS.

EDIT: ElTorro beat me to it.
Ishida
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(03-12-2014, 03:14 AM)
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I know some of those words.
ElTorro
I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
(03-12-2014, 03:14 AM)
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Here is a video of the talk: http://www.*****************/2014/03/...our-long-talk/
Can Crusher
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(03-12-2014, 03:15 AM)
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Only 60% of the memory allocated to games.... Sony fucking up right and left. Imma about to sell out.
CriterionDog
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(03-12-2014, 03:15 AM)
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PS4 games are limited to 5gbs of ram? Didn't know that. In the future will it be possible for they to use 6 or 7gbs of the ram in the system? Does the PS4 OS use 3gbs of ram?

I am excited for whatever NaughtyDog brings to the PS4. Really looking forward to Uncharted. Hopefully we see it at E3!
Last edited by CriterionDog; 03-12-2014 at 03:17 AM.
Ricky_R
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(03-12-2014, 03:16 AM)
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So they ended with 5GB's of ram then...
gundamkyoukai
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(03-12-2014, 03:16 AM)
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Originally Posted by CriterionDog

PS4 games are limited to 5gbs of ram? Didn't know that. In the future will it be possible for they to use 6 or 7gbs of the ram in the system? Does the PS4 OS use 3gbs of ram?

It will most likely go down in time , it's still early days .

EDIT the talk is really good explain a lot about how ND works .
Last edited by gundamkyoukai; 03-12-2014 at 03:25 AM.
suedester
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(03-12-2014, 03:17 AM)
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Originally Posted by Persona7

But will the naughty dog games be a locked 60FPS with no frame drops and native 1080p?

Sure if they wanted it to. I guarantee you they won't be locked at 60FPS though as they'd prefer to prioritise visuals as is their right.
RoboPlato
I'd be in the dick
(03-12-2014, 03:17 AM)
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Less RAM than I had thought. I expected it was 6GB. Hopefully that opens up more.

I do like hearing ND talk about 1080p/60. Here's hoping they go back to 60fps like they did in the PS2 days.
Persona7
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(03-12-2014, 03:17 AM)
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3GB reserve is what everyone was speculating.
LastNac
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(03-12-2014, 03:17 AM)
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The question is, will I be blown away? I hope so.
Codeblew
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(03-12-2014, 03:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by Persona7

But will the naughty dog games be a locked 60FPS with no frame drops and native 1080p?

SMH.
Captain Tuttle
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(03-12-2014, 03:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by Ricky_R

So they ended with 5GB's of ram then...

Yeah, that's what I got from it. Sony paid for 3 gigs of fast RAM to do mundane, non-gaming tasks.
ElTorro
I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
(03-12-2014, 03:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by Persona7

3GB reserve is what everyone was speculating.

There was a rather respectable rumor about that reserve already having been shrunk, but apparently that rumor wasn't correct. /edit: I forgot who the source of that rumor was.
Last edited by ElTorro; 03-12-2014 at 03:20 AM.
funkystudent
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(03-12-2014, 03:19 AM)
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With all that fast ram maybe this gen Naughty Dog games wont take over a minute to load a save.
Persona7
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(03-12-2014, 03:20 AM)
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Originally Posted by Codeblew

SMH.

I was joking.
Ricky_R
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(03-12-2014, 03:20 AM)
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Originally Posted by Captain Tuttle

Yeah, that's what I got from it. Sony paid for 3 gigs of fast RAM to do mundane, non-gaming tasks.

Look at the bright side. Imagine if the PS4 had the rumored 4GB's of RAM instead of 8?
ascii42
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(03-12-2014, 03:21 AM)
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Originally Posted by ElTorro

If the PS4 still reserves 2 cores for the OS, then Matt's statement that you can get more out of the PS4's CPU than of the XBO's might imply that the CPU clocks higher than 1.6Ghz. Or the XBO suffers from virtualization overhead on every core, but that's AFAIK unlikely in multi-core systems.

Not sure, all MS has to say regarding CPU overhead on Hyper-V is the following:

CPU Overhead

The CPU overhead associated with running a guest operating system in a Hyper-V virtual machine was found to range between 9 and 12%. For example, a guest operating system running on a Hyper-V virtual machine typically had available 88-91% of the CPU resources available to an equivalent operating system running on physical hardware.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...bts.10%29.aspx
Wishmaster92
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(03-12-2014, 03:21 AM)
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Originally Posted by ElTorro

There was a rather respectable rumor about that reserve already having been shrunk, but apparently that rumor wasn't correct.

Back in July i thought some games were being developed with 6gb in mind.
GalacticaN7
Banned
(03-12-2014, 03:21 AM)
*nods head pretending to understand as to not look foolish in front of everyone else*
soulassssns
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(03-12-2014, 03:21 AM)
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PS2 = Multicore?
Fried Food
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(03-12-2014, 03:22 AM)
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Can't wait to see what they do. It should be truly impressive.
Ishida
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(03-12-2014, 03:23 AM)
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Originally Posted by soulassssns

PS2 = Multicore?

It had two vector processors which are responsible for some of the most amazing visual effects on the system, if I recall correctly.
Doctor_Thomas
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(03-12-2014, 03:24 AM)
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Originally Posted by GalacticaN7

*nods head pretending to understand as to not look foolish in front of everyone else*

There's some RAMBITS and a new Gigawhosits to consider as well though.

Oh, and ROPS, they seem to be important now.

As an aside, I also thought there were games being developed with 6GB in mind, but wasn't there something about the RAM allocation not being "set" and while the had 5GB at all times, they could access some more? Or did I make that up?
jhmtehgamr20xx
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(03-12-2014, 03:24 AM)
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Originally Posted by ghst

six jaguar cores and only 5GBs of RAM available to devs?

ouch. explains a few things.

Yeah I noticed how they indirectly confirmed that. But hey at least there's still 500 mb of virtual RAM they can use from the HDD!

Originally Posted by Ricky_R

Look at the bright side. Imagine if the PS4 had the rumored 4GB's of RAM instead of 8?

Then at least it wouldn't be using almost half of that for non-gaming stuff :S
ElTorro
I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
(03-12-2014, 03:24 AM)
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Originally Posted by ascii42

Not sure, all MS has to say regarding CPU overhead on Hyper-V is the following:

Yes, I am not sure if that only applies to a single core running both the hypervisor and the guest OS. I don't know if hypervisors need to occupy CPU time on all cores or if they can run on one core only and schedule the other cores to the different guest OSs without occupying a relevant amount of resources.
ascii42
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(03-12-2014, 03:24 AM)
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Originally Posted by Ishida

It had two vector processors which are responsible for some of the most amazing visual effects on the system, if I recall correctly.

Yep. The Emotion Engine was pretty crazy.
neptunes
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(03-12-2014, 03:24 AM)
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I wonder if multi-threading will get more use in game development as a whole..

The way Sony's 1st party devs have been able to split up jobs across SPU and now X86 cores is commendable.
OldAsUrSock
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(03-12-2014, 03:25 AM)
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Originally Posted by RoboPlato

Less RAM than I had thought. I expected it was 6GB. Hopefully that opens up more.

I do like hearing ND talk about 1080p/60. Here's hoping they go back to 60fps like they did in the PS2 days.

Looking at how they struggled with 30fps on the PS3 and got praised for it I doubt they are going to go back to 60fps and not win GOTY.
Andrefpvs
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(03-12-2014, 03:25 AM)
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Oh, I was at this talk, it was at my University. It was extremely fascinating to follow along since it relates so closely to my education, and I love Naughty Dog games.

I'm not sure if they cut this part, but at some time Jason mentions they use Scheme at Naughty Dog, and the auditorium pretty much exploded at that time because that's the language we used for Fundamentals of Programming, but everyone just assumed it was educational only -- not a lot of practical uses outside of the class room (especially when CLisp exists).

Good times!

Edit: Yeah, it was cut from the video :<
Last edited by Andrefpvs; 03-12-2014 at 03:28 AM.
Valnen
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(03-12-2014, 03:26 AM)
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Originally Posted by ghst

six jaguar cores and only 5GBs of RAM available to devs?

ouch. explains a few things.

Already disappointed in this generation. Ugh.
GalacticaN7
Banned
(03-12-2014, 03:26 AM)

Originally Posted by Doctor_Thomas

There's some RAMBITS and a new Gigawhosits to consider as well though.

Oh, and ROPS, they seem to be important now.

Obviously you have to have the ROPS.

But what about the JRR5 RAMsicle's?
UrbanRats
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(03-12-2014, 03:26 AM)
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Originally Posted by Captain Tuttle

Yeah, that's what I got from it. Sony paid for 3 gigs of fast RAM to do mundane, non-gaming tasks.

But can that change with future firmware upgrades?
Iolo
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(03-12-2014, 03:27 AM)
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What's the difference between a fiber and a thread? Did they just make that term up or is it meaningful?
whitehawk
leeches are the best bait when attempting to land bass
(03-12-2014, 03:27 AM)
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So how would Sony go about freeing up more ram for games?

At the moment you can multitask games and apps (like netflix). It's a nice feature, but I would give it up if it meant more memory for games.
ElTorro
I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
(03-12-2014, 03:27 AM)
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Originally Posted by Andrefpvs

I'm not sure if they cut this part, but at some time Jason mentions they use Scheme at Naughty Dog, and the auditorium pretty much exploded at that time because that's the language we used for Fundamentals of Programming, but everyone just assumed it was educational only -- not a lot of practical uses outside of the class room (especially when CLisp exists).

The world would be a better place with more functional programming in it.
Sean*O
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(03-12-2014, 03:28 AM)
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3 gig for OS seems excessive. Sony need to optimize.
ghst
thanks for the laugh
(03-12-2014, 03:28 AM)
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http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=636106

so what happens to thuway and kagari?
boredandlazy
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(03-12-2014, 03:28 AM)
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Originally Posted by jhmtehgamr20xx

Yeah I noticed how they indirectly confirmed that. But hey at least there's still 500 mb of virtual RAM they can use from the HDD!

Then at least it wouldn't be using almost half of that for non-gaming stuff :S

You don't actually know what virtual memory is do you?
Guymelef
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(03-12-2014, 03:29 AM)
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Originally Posted by ghst

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=73254796

so what happens to thuway and kagari?

Better to ban Digital Foundry aka 3.5GB for OS.
Otakumegane
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(03-12-2014, 03:30 AM)
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What's with all the RAM being used for OS stuff?

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