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marc^o^
Nintendo's Pro Bono PR Firm
(06-21-2012, 08:48 AM)
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Originally Posted by Matt

Kinect 2 will be standerd for the 720.

With no impact on the price and/or console performances?

I don't know. Kinect works good enough for apps and services. I'm not sure x360 gamers care enough for this technology to justify tradeoffs in the console power area.
MarshMellow96
Member
(06-21-2012, 03:34 PM)
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EDGE review posted yet?
glaurung
Member
(06-21-2012, 03:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by MarshMellow96

EDGE review posted yet?

Those EDGE guys must've had some of those funky-ass Kinect 3.0 models to get the game to work.
Curufinwe
Member
(06-21-2012, 03:44 PM)
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Thanks for the 6/10 Edge, but I still think I'd rather play SSX.
MarshMellow96
Member
(06-21-2012, 04:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by glaurung

Those EDGE guys must've had some of those funky-ass Kinect 3.0 models to get the game to work.

You've not been around the EDGE offices? Strobe lighting and white paint. EVERYWHERE.

With a few fluorescent pink and green highlights, of course.
Oni Jazar
Member
(06-21-2012, 04:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by soul creator

the interesting thing with Kinect is that in a lot of ways you can make it super accurate...but that can lead to the opposite problem, where unintended gestures are seen as intended gestures. Like, were you really trying to do a kick, or where you just raising your leg to walk? Were you trying to swing, or are you just scratching your nose? And then when combined with the hundreds of other things someone could potentially be doing, that leads to problems. For example, I remember watching videos of people playing the tutorial Jedi level, and the lightsaber felt fine there (since that was the only focus), but once they were actually in a full on action level that required other actions and movements, issues came up. (There are about 8 different main mechanics that have to be tracked and/or logically separated, since the player can do them at any given time. It was a bit ambitious in that sense...though the experiment obviously didn't work too well)

Other moves like the kick and the jump are more traditional "wait for preset gesture, then do animation", so a lot of times, those felt the worse.

As you mentioned, Dance Central smartly avoids a lot of this because you're not directly controlling a character in that game, and the only sign of your input is the raw depth map information (which is pretty responsive). So even if it completely wigs out, you don't really notice so much.

In the case of Kinect Star Wars, it's basically using a mixture of animations and "raw" skeleton data for some of the moves. The lightsaber swinging in particular uses this method. The problem comes when determining what's really a swing, and what's just moving your arm out in front. Also, moving arms on front inherently adds more issues with Kinect, due to joints getting occluded and what not. The depth camera is good, but not perfect. Which is why it can sometimes work fine with some people and in some setups, but in others it completely wig out. One reason the Rancor mode in a lot of ways works better, even if it has the same control issues as Jedi, is because "giant monster that can smash everything" is inherently more forgiving control wise than being a Jedi (also, people have a point of control comparison with 3rd person action sword games..."swinging giant monster arms" isn't as popular a genre, heh)

Funnily enough, the initial prototypes for Kinect Star Wars were pure "1:1". No lag! It did exactly what you did! Of course, it looked terrible because, well, people aren't actually Jedi. So you were pretty much the laziest looking Jedi ever. So that's where the hybrid approach came in, heh.

Great post thanks for the info!
futnownarcade
Member
(06-21-2012, 06:46 PM)
I got the game and was able to play as well as I'd expect any Kinect game to work. You do big gestures with your arms to go into smaller menus, and then those menus are pretty much the same as the 360 dashboard where you have a cursor for your hand and as you go over buttons/switches they highlight to show what you are going to select.
One of my crew died on a mission, does anyone know if you can re-play the mission in single mission mode to save them or are they permadead on this save?
BolognaSoup
Member
(06-23-2012, 01:47 AM)
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Watching the Giant Bomb quicklook, the dialogue is more offensively bad than anything else. "brah," "awright," misuse of "your" and "you're."

"You awright man?"
"Take that fat ass out!"
"Yeah, that's actually working brah!"
"All right, just chill the fuck out! God!"
"Keep going podna!"
"That's one hell of a target! Let's bust the shit outta it!"
"No ting mon. Just gotta do it."
"No I'm thinking of shutting shit up too. Like your fucking mouth."

Embarrassing.
Darkmakaimura
(06-23-2012, 02:05 AM)
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Originally Posted by BolognaSoup

Watching the Giant Bomb quicklook, the dialogue is more offensively bad than anything else. "brah," "awright," misuse of "your" and "you're."

"You awright man?"
"Take that fat ass out!"
"Yeah, that's actually working brah!"
"All right, just chill the fuck out! God!"
"Keep going podna!"
"That's one hell of a target! Let's bust the shit outta it!"
"No ting mon. Just gotta do it."
"No I'm thinking of shutting shit up too. Like your fucking mouth."

Embarrassing.

Does this game take place in modern times, an alternate WWII or supposedly our WWII? Because, nobody said 'brah' back then....
bkfount
Member
(06-23-2012, 02:16 AM)
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Originally Posted by Matt

Kinect 2 will be standerd for the 720.

maybe it will be the feature that differentiates two models like the HDD does now, but it won't be standard. That will just add to the upfront sticker price.

the current kinect has sold millions at $150 with shit software, so why stop selling it as a peripheral? If the next dashboard interface is even more kinect fucked, then tons of people will get it like a 2nd controller.
Joe Molotov
(06-23-2012, 05:33 AM)
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Originally Posted by Darkmakaimura

Does this game take place in modern times, an alternate WWII or supposedly our WWII? Because, nobody said 'brah' back then....

Hawaiians have been saying brah for a long time.
Darkmakaimura
(06-23-2012, 06:11 AM)
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Originally Posted by Joe Molotov

Hawaiians have been saying brah for a long time.

In the same context it's used in the game? Also, game does not take place in Hawaii or have identifiable Hawaiians.
sonicmj1
Member
(06-23-2012, 06:21 AM)
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Originally Posted by Darkmakaimura

Does this game take place in modern times, an alternate WWII or supposedly our WWII? Because, nobody said 'brah' back then....

It takes place decades in the future, but something has destroyed all computer systems in the entire world.
Infinite Justice
Member
(06-23-2012, 07:00 AM)
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Originally Posted by Darkmakaimura

Does this game take place in modern times, an alternate WWII or supposedly our WWII? Because, nobody said 'brah' back then....

It should be somewhere in the future but then Datacide happened (some event that kills every single computer in the world and took the info with it)
KDR_11k
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(06-23-2012, 12:38 PM)
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It said 2085 at some point in the quicklook. The designs are very WW2ish though. I have to wonder why they went for mechs at all when they're basically simulating tanks (but I guess then they'd have to stick an MG on the commander's hatch).

I'm sad that the game fails, all I can hope for is that someone else tries the concept with a better control method (e.g. mouse clicks, touchscreens or Wii pointers). I hope Sandlot makes another Chou Soujuu Mecha MG (and Nintendo actually localizes it). That was pretty much the closest thing to this whole concept except it went in some wacky directions (e.g. mechs that required you to shovel coal into their furnace to produce steam, lengthy activation systems or code inputs for superweapons, ...).
sonicmj1
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(06-23-2012, 12:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by KDR_11k

It said 2085 at some point in the quicklook. The designs are very WW2ish though. I have to wonder why they went for mechs at all when they're basically simulating tanks (but I guess then they'd have to stick an MG on the commander's hatch).

I'm sad that the game fails, all I can hope for is that someone else tries the concept with a better control method (e.g. mouse clicks, touchscreens or Wii pointers). I hope Sandlot makes another Chou Soujuu Mecha MG (and Nintendo actually localizes it). That was pretty much the closest thing to this whole concept except it went in some wacky directions (e.g. mechs that required you to shovel coal into their furnace to produce steam, lengthy activation systems or code inputs for superweapons, ...).

Retro-futurism aside, the franchise was always about creating a simulated walking tank. Except instead of using Kinect, they built an actual piece of hardware to replicate the controls inside a mech.



It was always super niche, but it seems like the game had its adherents.
atomsk
Party Pooper
(06-23-2012, 01:42 PM)
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Alright, so I put a few hours into this yesterday (got to the 3rd set of missions I think). I come into this having owned the original SB (and LOC), but not having played them in forever since I sold them to buy a DS back in 2004.

I don't think it's as bad as most reviews are making it out to be, and certainly not a 1.

I'm having just as many issues with the Kinect as I did playing Rise of Nightmares, which is to say sometimes shit just doesn't work. The biggest problems I've had are switching ammo types, and venting the smoke. The problem is that these are things that (mostly) work when you are doing it calmly, but in the heat of battle you are trying to rush, and Kinect is like NOPE.

I'd say the worst offender is the scripted outside the VT stuff, because it's not always clear what motion you should be doing, and so I'm just flailing wildly hoping it picks something up.

As far as the missions and game itself outside of the Kinect, it's mediocre-to-alright. But I can see how reviewers who are used to corridor shooters and having radar on at all times would hate it. It doesn't tell you a whole lot, and you'll end up replaying missions once you figure out where you should be or what you should do. That really comes down to a matter of how much tolerance you have for that kind of game design.

I think it does do an excellent job of making you feel helpless inside this giant metal box, something I thought the original game did as well.
KDR_11k
Member
(06-23-2012, 02:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by sonicmj1

Retro-futurism aside, the franchise was always about creating a simulated walking tank. Except instead of using Kinect, they built an actual piece of hardware to replicate the controls inside a mech.

Yeah but the way their mech acts it seems like they could have made a tank driving game with almost no gameplay changes.
UrbanRats
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(06-23-2012, 02:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by Alx

I have. doesn't mean I have to support them, especially when it's based on posting the exact same picture again and again. That's not even a meme, that's parroting.
As a counter-example, see the neogaf "airplane.gif" meme : posting the same image of an airplane taking off in the sunset isn't funny after the third time. But finding creative and appropriate sunset images are funny uses of the meme. Creativity, that's the secret.
I don't mind gifs making fun of kinect. Most of them made me laugh (the first time), and I registered my account on GAF precisely because of the gifs. That's why I'd appreciate more wit in their use.

Most of the time it isn't.
ironcreed
Member
(06-23-2012, 03:17 PM)
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Ah, Kinect. It would be so sad, were it not so hilarious.









Last edited by ironcreed; 06-23-2012 at 03:21 PM.
70s Style Pimp
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(06-23-2012, 03:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by MarshMellow96

EDGE review posted yet?

oooooff.

6/10? Now I wasn't expecting that since the game is basically broken.
Templar Wizard
Member
(06-23-2012, 03:43 PM)
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anyone get past the crawling in mission 2?
I cannot do it.
Clear
This post contains disingenuous arguments meant to disguise my fanboyism. Reader beware!
(06-23-2012, 05:48 PM)
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The problem with Kinect is that its always been pitched as a quasi-"mind reading" device, which it cannot ever be.

There are basic, unsurmountable, limitations to what is possible with optical recognition due to the camera's vision offering only a single view perspective and therefore liability to issues of occlusion and lighting conditions. You can use predictive modelling to work around the most egregious cases, but its still a simulation - and that's simply not desirable in a user interface!

The more data-points sampled the worse it gets, particularly in relation to anticipating and validating user behaviour. The issue is always that you're not dealing with absolute states (i.e. button-up, button-down) you're dealing with fuzzy behaviour due to user error and imperfections of form in performance.

Again, this is a critical flaw in an interface, because that "fuzziness" can be extremely undesirable based on circumstance. You can afford to be sloppy in a performance/play scenario like dance or certain sports, but in a fictitious "pressure" situation like operating a mech under fire... its never, ever, going to be optimal.

The sad part this stuff was OBVIOUS from the outset to anyone with any insight and experience of designing user interfaces for games. Similarly we all also knew that it was MS marketing effort driving the train and thus they were summarily going to dismiss such complaints when opposed by a saleable, populist, "vision" to drive.

I'm not saying Kinect is useless, I'm just saying that it has fundamental limitations in terms of practical usage, regardless of all the smoke MS marketing has been blowing for the last 3 years.
Htown
STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
(06-23-2012, 06:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by ironcreed

Ah, Kinect. It would be so sad, were it not so hilarious.

LOL HOLY CRAP
Alx
Member
(06-23-2012, 06:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by Clear

The more data-points sampled the worse it gets, particularly in relation to anticipating and validating user behaviour. The issue is always that you're not dealing with absolute states (i.e. button-up, button-down) you're dealing with fuzzy behaviour due to user error and imperfections of form in performance.

Again, this is a critical flaw in an interface, because that "fuzziness" can be extremely undesirable based on circumstance. You can afford to be sloppy in a performance/play scenario like dance or certain sports, but in a fictitious "pressure" situation like operating a mech under fire... its never, ever, going to be optimal.

The whole idea of emulating physical mech controls with a non-physical gesture interface was strange (to say the least) from the beginning. And the parts where you have to push virtual buttons to change ammo when you already have buttons on your pad are borderline absurd.
I don't think the fact that the user may mess up his gestures in the middle of tense action is a problem in itself though (it's part of the skill required when playing the game, just like mashing buttons will get you killed in most games).

So Steel Battalion was flawed from the beginning indeed. There are a few good ideas though (judging from the demo), but most of them are based on being more intuitive, rather than having complex actions : holding your hand like a visor to activate the binoculars, grabbing and punching your fleeing partners... the periscope is ok, but most other commands aren't really adapted to motion controls. I think they really should have kept the motioin commands for minor tasks and QTEs.
Last edited by Alx; 06-23-2012 at 08:40 PM.
Zezboob
Member
(06-23-2012, 06:55 PM)

Originally Posted by ironcreed

Ah, Kinect. It would be so sad, were it not so hilarious.

Oh shit, it made my day :D
atomsk
Party Pooper
(06-23-2012, 11:45 PM)
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I take back everything nice I said, the last mission of the 4th chapter is fucking bullshit.

BACK TO GAMEFLY YOU GO
B_Rik_Schitthaus
Banned
(06-23-2012, 11:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by ironcreed

Ah, Kinect. It would be so sad, were it not so hilarious.

I always think this is like Back to the Future and the guy in the back with the red shirt is the future version of the kid in red.
mercenar1e
Member
(06-23-2012, 11:51 PM)
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better with kinect
Afrikan
Member
(06-24-2012, 12:17 AM)
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Originally Posted by ironcreed

Ah, Kinect. It would be so sad, were it not so hilarious.

Why is this the first time I've seen this? anyone have a link to the vid? edit- well that was easy to find... "Kinect cat kick"..lol.

I feel bad for that little girl in the other gif. :( you could see her little feet come up after she hits the floor.

Does the 360 have any funny warning pics like, Sony has with their PS Move titles when you boot up a game?

I'd love to see a flying cat photo shop of one.
Last edited by Afrikan; 06-24-2012 at 12:20 AM.
Price Drop
Member
(06-28-2012, 12:02 AM)

Originally Posted by Templar Wizard

anyone get past the crawling in mission 2?
I cannot do it.

You just crawl a few times and wait at the body for a signal (upper left screen) to proceed. When it says proceed crawl and few more times and press the detonator down.

Just got to playing this and it's certainly not broken. It can be sensitive when you are scrambling to press something, but the combat doesn't require a lot of interior action, except for the occasional ventilation or periscope.

You need a large space - stay about six feet from the TV. The space requirement is my best bet as to why it would completely not function.
Cypher
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(08-22-2012, 11:07 PM)
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Looks like the game is hovering around the $20 range now on Amazon. Still a busted a game, but at that price it might provide some thrills....or rage!
jimi_dini
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(08-22-2012, 11:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by dogmanstaruk

oooooff.

6/10? Now I wasn't expecting that since the game is basically broken.

6/10

6/10

that's the same they gave Sleeping Dogs

6/10

I mean SLEEPING DOGS. smh
atomsk
Party Pooper
(08-22-2012, 11:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by Cypher

Looks like the game is hovering around the $20 range now on Amazon. Still a busted a game, but at that price it might provide some thrills....or rage!

good luck getting past the halfway point in the game.

I finished Hulk Hogan's Main Event, and I couldn't finish this

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