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butter_stick
Banned
(05-12-2012, 09:09 AM)
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In case you haven't been following, Republique, some kind of mobile phone game [now with a PC port] was just successfully funded for half a million dollars via send-us-money site Kickstarter.com. Some people, including a semi-close personal friend, put down $60.  Others less, others more. But crucially, people are paying more for a game than it would ever retail for, in order to feel like they're "helping with a vision". From what I can see, Republique's vision is to release an ill suited to the format mobile phone game, with a bit of atmosphere to pass it off as an AAA console experience, wrapped in hipster credentials. But I don't know. I haven't played it. 

A lot of people will say "but butter_stick, people are free to spend their money how they like, and they want to support a project they think looks cool". I guess. There's nothing inherently wrong with spending money. It is literally what we work for. But the way Kickstarters go about it, promising first and delivering later, seems like a recipe for total disaster. We haven't had our first Kickstarter Bomb yet, but it has to be coming. People will look back and say "damn, I paid $125 for a shitty mobile phone game". But until that happens, the games journalists who are often close friends with the people asking for your money will tell you to give what you can. 



And that just feels wrong. You shouldn't be pressured in to giving money away like its charity. And it seems like every week there's a new Kickstarter that gets all the gaming press attention. I'm a strong person, I can't be influenced by the words of these people, but I'm sure a lot of people are going to regret being convinced by people that should be impartial that they should give money to somebody with only scraps of detail available. My friend told me Republique is guaranteed to be Game of the Year 2013. There's indoctrination going on here.

Republique may be good. Tim Schafers thing (remember that?) may be good (I guess). But do we really want a new developer begging us for money every week?


Is this the future of game development?

Do you agree?
Do you think Kickstarters are awesome?
Have you put down $125 for the special edition of Republique with an iPhone case?
Am I being unreasonable and just trying to crush someone's vision?
FieryBalrog
Member
(05-12-2012, 09:11 AM)
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People like to dream. Now you, too, can pay us lots of $$$ for your dreams!
Visualante2
Member
(05-12-2012, 09:12 AM)
Do we really want publishers forcing shitty products and services down our necks?

As for your argument, there's a $10 and $15 donation option for iPad and computer respectively. That's probably about how much you'd pay for it under any other funding model.
disappeared
Member
(05-12-2012, 09:12 AM)
It's a slippery slope. The next twelve to twenty-four months are going to be interesting.
StevePharma
Member
(05-12-2012, 09:13 AM)
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Originally Posted by butter_stick

My friend told me Republique is guaranteed to be Game of the Year 2013. There's indoctrination going on here.

That's because he put 60 bucks in. Same for people who bitch in review threads because they want acknowlegdement that their money was well spent.

I still have my reservations about Kickstarter. I backed Idle Thumbs, but we will have to see if the project will be worth it. Same with all the other projects.

I think we can fairly assess the Kickstarter model 1 to 1.5 years down the road. Not right now.
Htown
STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
(05-12-2012, 09:13 AM)
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What are you so afraid of?
MThanded
I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
(05-12-2012, 09:13 AM)
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Its all fun and games until someone gets the money for dev and they end up over budget and people don't get their shit.

Just wait.

I have my popcorn ready.

When people make bad games with EAs money we laugh.

When people start making bad games with "our" money we get the pitchforks.

Game X raises a million dollars and it ends up being a dud. Now dat shit cray.

jediyoshi
Member
(05-12-2012, 09:14 AM)
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Originally Posted by butter_stick

There's indoctrination going on here.

JUST TELL ME WHAT TO DO BUTTER STICK
fanboi
Banned
(05-12-2012, 09:14 AM)
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I belive, Kickstarter is the way of the future when it comes to games that focus on content, gameplay and story and not graphics.

My few cents.
Kusagari
Member
(05-12-2012, 09:14 AM)
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The second you wrote 'hipster credentials' your post went to shit.
Emitan
Member
(05-12-2012, 09:14 AM)
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if you dont want to look at kickstarters dont go to the website
bigtroyjon
Member
(05-12-2012, 09:15 AM)
It is without a doubt shady as hell that all these game bloggers like IGN are pimping this stuff out. Is there any possible way that IGN would give this game a shitty review if it sucks when it comes out?

"Hey guys, that game that we promoted and told all of you to throw your money at. It sucks, jokes on you!"
Dreams-Visions
I'm mad as hell but this sandwich is delicious
(05-12-2012, 09:15 AM)
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so mad
FieryBalrog
Member
(05-12-2012, 09:15 AM)
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"damn, I paid $125 for a shitty mobile phone game"

On the positive side, these dumbasses are subsidizing the rest of us. I guess. Or something.

Kickstarting is all about going whaling, just like F2P games. The only difference is, one is a game that actually exists and you can play it right now and make an informed decision. The other is a pile of screenshots, bombastic text and maybe a video.
Sloane
Banned
(05-12-2012, 09:16 AM)
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Originally Posted by butter_stick

But crucially, people are paying more for a game than it would ever retail for, in order to feel like they're "helping with a vision".

People buy "special editions" of Call of Duty or whatever for $100 or more. People also buy games for $60 although they're often available for $30 or less after a few months. Some people argue games aren't worth anything because they're only data and can't be stolen or whatever. I don't really see what your point is. The $60 price tag is as artificial as any other number, including Kickstarter's. Difference is, people usually spend money on Kickstarter because they want to support something they believe in.
LeadProtagonist
Member
(05-12-2012, 09:16 AM)
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People should look at what's been going on with kickstarter board game projects. They've been happening for quite some time now.

A lot of the games are really great, but some just fail even if they're funded. Some get way behind on things and everyone gets angry. A lot of games are failing now because people are tired of backing them. I feel like the same will happen with video games soon.
SkyMasterson
Member
(05-12-2012, 09:16 AM)
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Yea, I was starting to feel this back in March when it seemed like everyone was coming out of the woodwork after they saw how successful Double Fine did with it.

It will be interesting to see how it turns out for all these kickstarters say a year from now, because like you said, some of these games will not satisfy or meet the expectations some people may have. Especially those dropping $100+.


I wish bigger companies(like Sega and Capcom) would use this as a way to gauge interest for
certain titles and while donating $60 may not net them a game, they could get some very sweet swag for it.
Good Job Bob
(05-12-2012, 09:17 AM)
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I wouldn't worry about it, Kickstarter is one of the greatest things to happen not only to gaming but also the entire modern world.
cr_blah_blah
Member
(05-12-2012, 09:17 AM)
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At least we can round up the Kickstart naysayers into one pointless thread despite every single one of their arguments having been countered in every single Kickstarter thread ever made.
Htown
STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
(05-12-2012, 09:17 AM)
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Originally Posted by disappeared

It's a slippery slope. The next twelve to twenty-four months are going to be interesting.

Except Kickstarter isn't new, and plenty of projects have started and been completed already, in categories from gaming to music to art to hardware et cetera.

Stop acting like this is some crazy thing where NO ONE KNOWS IF ANYTHING WILL EVER COME OF IT.

Some projects will fail, and some projects will succeed, JUST LIKE WITH ANY OTHER FORM OF FUNDING.

The only difference is that, for smaller projects, the people who actually want these games can fund them, instead of having to depend on the whims of some dumbass suit at a giant publisher who decides based on whether or not the game is something he can churn out as a yearly franchise.
MThanded
I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
(05-12-2012, 09:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by Htown

Except Kickstarter isn't new, and plenty of projects have started and been completed already, in categories from gaming to music to art to hardware et cetera.

Stop acting like this is some crazy thing where NO ONE KNOWS IF ANYTHING WILL EVER COME OF IT.

Some projects will fail, and some projects will succeed, JUST LIKE WITH ANY OTHER FORM OF FUNDING.

The only difference is that, for smaller projects, the people who actually want these games can fund them, instead of having to depend on the whims of some dumbass suit at a giant publisher who decides based on whether or not the game is something he can churn out as a yearly franchise.

Some but not all. Some get funded and still fail. People will be salty if this occurs with their precious game.
whalleywhat
Member
(05-12-2012, 09:18 AM)
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Lord knows I have a hard time resisting IGN's counsel.
Dog Problems
Banned
(05-12-2012, 09:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by butter_stick

But do we really want a new developer begging us for money every week?
If it's an indie developer I'm fond of or an unknown developer that seems to have a good game in mind, then sure.

Is this the future of game development?
I hope it continues to be a part of it.

Do you agree?
With the majority of your post? Not at all. Kickstarter has helped one of my favorite genres, point-and-click adventures, to get some games made by developers that may not have been able to do so otherwise.

Do you think Kickstarters are awesome?


Have you put down $125 for the special edition of Republique with an iPhone case?
Yes, I did.

Am I being unreasonable and just trying to crush someone's vision?
I think you are being too pessimistic.

.
lastplayed
Member
(05-12-2012, 09:19 AM)
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I never pay for a game unless it's available or coming very soon. I usually only pre-order a few days before release if ever.

I've been following a few kickstarters, it's interesting from a business perspective (I work in a company that specialises in small businesses), but I can't see myself ever handing over money for what's basically a business plan.
Zeliard
(05-12-2012, 09:19 AM)
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Originally Posted by Visualante2

Do we really want publishers forcing shitty products and services down our necks?

Clearly some people out there yearn to keep sucking at the publisher teet, given how many opinions like the OP's are floated around.

A lot of people fail to realize that Kickstarter actually - gasp - existed before Double Fine and is already a proven model.
Dreams-Visions
I'm mad as hell but this sandwich is delicious
(05-12-2012, 09:19 AM)
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Originally Posted by Htown

Except Kickstarter isn't new, and plenty of projects have started and been completed already, in categories from gaming to music to art to hardware et cetera.

Stop acting like this is some crazy thing where NO ONE KNOWS IF ANYTHING WILL EVER COME OF IT.

Some projects will fail, and some projects will succeed, JUST LIKE WITH ANY OTHER FORM OF FUNDING.

The only difference is that, for smaller projects, the people who actually want these games can fund them, instead of having to depend on the whims of some dumbass suit at a giant publisher who decides based on whether or not the game is something he can churn out as a yearly franchise.

sums it up.
benny_a
extra source of jiggaflops
(05-12-2012, 09:19 AM)
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My friend told me Republique is guaranteed to be Game of the Year 2013.

Your friend is an idiot.

What you rightly point out as the bad thing, irrespective of the quality of the game or the merits of Kickstarter is the blatant advertisement with not even a pretense of criticism from the enthusiast press.

But the enthusiast press fails anyway. I feel like every second game I've been massively failed by the collective review-system.
outunderthestars
Banned
(05-12-2012, 09:19 AM)
I don't really see any keen insight you've brought to matter that would require yet another anti-Kickstarter thread.

I've backed 26 projects thus far, and have enjoyed helping out on every one.

In the end it's really quite simple: Don't like Kickstarter? then don't use it. Amazing how that works!
FieryBalrog
Member
(05-12-2012, 09:20 AM)
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Yeah, it's a proven model that contains quite a few failures and disappointments. Somehow that part, people don't like to focus on.
Seagoon
Member
(05-12-2012, 09:21 AM)
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The way I see it, Kickstarter is a blessing for genres long forgotten by big Publishers. There is a risk, so you need to be careful when making a pledge. A lot of the time, $15 - $30 dollars will net you a full game, which is hardly a huge investment imho.

I wonder if we'll ever see something like this funding console games?
onlyindreams
Banned
(05-12-2012, 09:21 AM)
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Payton is capitalizing on his hipsterness to sell the game indeed, just look at this scarf.

Kusagari
Member
(05-12-2012, 09:22 AM)
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Originally Posted by FieryBalrog

Yeah, it's a proven model that contains quite a few failures and disappointments. Somehow that part, people don't like to focus on.

It also has quite a few successes. I don't think anyone is debating that there has been failures on kickstarter.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the three biggest gaming kickstarters involve dudes famous in the gaming industry that people would trust. Could they disappoint too? Yeah, obviously, but the risk is far less than backing random joe.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
(05-12-2012, 09:22 AM)
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You just have to watch the two episodes of Doublefine's documentary for evidence of something that already has made some backers feel that it was worth it. Brian Feargo's Wasteland 2, awesome too, was he ever going to get that money elsewhere? doesn't matter, we already gave it to him. And Banner Saga? hot damn that Eyvind Earle art style!
Visualante2
Member
(05-12-2012, 09:22 AM)

Originally Posted by whalleywhat

Lord knows I have a hard time resisting IGN's counsel.

What about Blazyr on Weekend Confirmed? Not only was Payton a guest on his (well respected) show but there was a couple of PSA type announcements urging listeners to visit the Kickstarter page.
outunderthestars
Banned
(05-12-2012, 09:22 AM)

Originally Posted by FieryBalrog

Yeah, it's a proven model that contains quite a few failures and disappointments. Somehow that part, people don't like to focus on.

Yea, because the traditional publisher model doesn't contain a few failures and disappointments. Companies like EA, Activision, and Ubisoft make sure everything they release is only of the highest quality!
butter_stick
Banned
(05-12-2012, 09:23 AM)
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Originally Posted by onlyindreams

Payton is capitalizing on his hipsterness to sell the game indeed, just look at this scarf.

I like how he's still using the MGS brand to try and promote his unrelated product.
YianGaruga
Banned
(05-12-2012, 09:23 AM)
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I wasn't convinced at all by Republiques premise and I doubt it's going to be a great game, but obviously a lot of people were.

People need to understand what Kickstarter is and where their money is going to. It is an investment with a certain risk attached to it, and there is a chance that you will get NOTHING out of it. That's why I personally would never give hundreds of dollars to a project.
Some people obviously have that kind of disposable income and feel like the potential rewards (funding the game at all, cardboard boxes, etc.) outweigh the risks.

There will be the first Kickstarter Bomb and some people WILL think "damn, I paid $125 for a shitty mobile phone game", but that's not a problem with Kickstarter, that's a problem with their interpretation of what Kickstarter is.
There is no problem if you make an informed decision to fund/donate to/preorder this or that project. If you feel pressured by the media/hype into giving money to every project available and end up dissapointed later on, that's YOUR problem, it has nothing to do with Kickstarter.
FieryBalrog
Member
(05-12-2012, 09:23 AM)
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Originally Posted by outunderthestars

Yea, because the traditional publisher model doesn't contain a few failures and disappointments.

Yeah, except the publisher takes the fall for those. You know, the whole point.
MThanded
I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
(05-12-2012, 09:24 AM)
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I think kickstarter is great but when it comes to design process and development the model gets quite interesting.

When you are a big company/publisher and a game looks to be underdeveloped and over budget you can it or shift it off to a different studio or can it.

Problem with kickstarter is people expect the initial vision to be followed through with. Not shifting the game to some other team, changing target platforms or removing features. However, that is commonly part of the development process. Especially, if the game is in in pre-alpa at the time the kickstarter goes live.

I want to see how this plays out in the gaming space. It's interesting.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
(05-12-2012, 09:24 AM)
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Well, I wasn't sold by Republique. Nothing I saw caught enough of my interest.
Squire
Banned
(05-12-2012, 09:25 AM)
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Originally Posted by Kusagari

The second you wrote 'hipster credentials' your post went to shit.

Producer on MGS4?
Narrative Director on Halo 4?

Shit, if those are "hipster credentials", I'd damn sure love to hear what he thinks are legitimate credentials.
FieryBalrog
Member
(05-12-2012, 09:25 AM)
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Originally Posted by Kusagari

It also has quite a few successes. I don't think anyone is debating that there has been failures on kickstarter.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the three biggest gaming kickstarters involve dudes famous in the gaming industry that people would trust. Could they disappoint too? Yeah, obviously, but the risk is far less than backing random joe.

I have no problem with Double Fine precisely because they are a proven, trustworthy company with a relevant track record. The problem is, a lot of kickstarters, and by lot I mean the vast majority, are not that.
outunderthestars
Banned
(05-12-2012, 09:26 AM)

Originally Posted by FieryBalrog

Yeah, except the publisher takes the fall for those. You know, the whole point.

Odd, Bethesda seems to still have my money from Brink.......

shitty products will exist regardless of funding method.
FStop7
Banned
(05-12-2012, 09:26 AM)
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Butter stick threads are the Kosmo threads of the gaming side.
Jackson
(05-12-2012, 09:27 AM)
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Originally Posted by butter_stick

I like how he's still using the MGS brand to try and promote his unrelated product.

Er... according to moby he's credited multiple times in MGS4 and is credited as Assistant Producer. So obviously he worked on it. I'm pretty sure it's OK to list previous titles you worked on in regards to your current project.

Re KS in general: People are paying a small amount of money to help something they want to see happen. This happens all the time in all kinds of fields, it's just new to games and it's great for indies and small teams. Who cares if it flops or not, that's the whole point of Kickstarter. Take a gamble.
Htown
STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
(05-12-2012, 09:27 AM)
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Originally Posted by MThanded

Some but not all. Some get funded and still fail. People will be salty if this occurs with their precious game.

Finish reading a post before you reply next time.
CFMOORE!
Member
(05-12-2012, 09:27 AM)
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Originally Posted by FieryBalrog

Yeah, except the publisher takes the fall for those. You know, the whole point.

they do, but they also close and fire everyone at the studio who developed the game, if internally owned.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
(05-12-2012, 09:27 AM)
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Originally Posted by butter_stick


Is this the future of game development?

That's an insanely huge strawman picture.

Do you think Kickstarters are awesome?

Yes.

People always make these anti-Kickstarter threads, which ultimately show the OP's ignorance of the topic, since they really just mean "Video Game Kickstarters" and have obviously not looked at the site as a whole.

Have you put down $125 for the special edition of Republique with an iPhone case?

No, I but I did put down X amount of dollars for no reward, because even though I don't want to play Republique, I understand and respect what they are doing. Tons of people pledge for no reward every day. Don't let the numerous posts of "Kickstarter is simply a pre-order" fool you.

Am I being unreasonable and just trying to crush someone's vision?

No, you're just being skeptical. It would be another thing entirely if you went around to every Kickstarter comments page and posted multiple times about how it sucks.
Kusagari
Member
(05-12-2012, 09:28 AM)
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Originally Posted by butter_stick

I like how he's still using the MGS brand to try and promote his unrelated product.

Please make it more obvious this is a troll thread. It's amusing.
MThanded
I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
(05-12-2012, 09:28 AM)
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Originally Posted by outunderthestars

Odd, Bethesda seems to still have my money from Brink.......

shitty products will exist regardless of funding method.

If brink had a kickstarter people would be pissed though. I remember reading what brink was going to be like and the game did not end up where I thought it would.

Thats the big difference. When people invest their real money into the development a game they believe they are entitled to a great product. Whether the product is great or not is another issue.

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