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Articate
Banned
(03-22-2010, 05:05 PM)
I would just like to point out that ducking should be considered an aestethic choice rather than a way to get volume out of your mix.

Ducking belongs in the house dance trace techno whathaveyou realm, where it is used to give a really pumping feel. I would never duck the bass in my solo projects, but I would do it in house songs I produce because it gives a helluva pump despite listening to it at comfortable levels. 'Compression' and ducking is something that happens naturally in our ears. If something is really loud, you won't hear something that's loud but not as loud. This means that if I'm blasting a kick drum in your face at 110 dB and having a bass at a steady 100, it'll sound like it ducks everytime the kick hits because of the way our ear works.

Do I want to stand in 110 dB loudness to feel that? No, which is why I duck stuff in house music.

Is my solo music meant to be blasted at full volume with thousands of people just dancing around to it, feeling the pump? No, it's an organic music that would of course sound great loud, but it's just not made with that in mind. Thus an aestethic choice.

So about the snare drum. If you're making something where you want your snare to give pump to your song, screw head-room and duck it. If you're making something more.. organic.. like rock or mellow electronic stuff, head-room is the desired listening experience, but you can still compress it subtly and give more punch to the mix while the snare is able to shine through, albeit not ducking the rest of the stuff.

But compressing is an art hard to master - so while I'd recommend your final mix to not have head-room for a snare, but instead be compressed in a good manner (not overcompressed and ruining the aestethics of the mix), while making the song, head-room is definitely a good choice.
Articate
Banned
(03-22-2010, 05:26 PM)

Originally Posted by AgentWhiskersX

Thanks! And I did just that. :D

REVISED and FULL Version of 'Belly Up' - Have at me GAF!

The drums is the strong part of this mix. Love them. Care to share what you've used of samples and effects? How you've arranged them and processed them? I love perc like this in songs.
Yasae
Banned
(03-22-2010, 05:38 PM)
Yasae's Avatar

Originally Posted by Articate

So about the snare drum. If you're making something where you want your snare to give pump to your song, screw head-room and duck it. If you're making something more.. organic.. like rock or mellow electronic stuff, head-room is the desired listening experience, but you can still compress it subtly and give more punch to the mix while the snare is able to shine through, albeit not ducking the rest of the stuff.

But compressing is an art hard to master - so while I'd recommend your final mix to not have head-room for a snare, but instead be compressed in a good manner (not overcompressed and ruining the aestethics of the mix), while making the song, head-room is definitely a good choice.

You would require headroom in all cases. The dynamics could be very limited (*cough* Justice *cough*) but that doesn't mean you clip faders left and right.

Unless it sounds good, but god.. That sounds horrible enough on a console and even worse in digital. People have got so much unused gain on their monitors yet they tend to really crank faders. Faders are for balance. You wouldn't even touch them on a recording path.

Sometimes it can creep up on you, but if I find I'm adding too much gain with them in Reaper, I select all and ctrl drag the faders down. Never once have my monitors been so weak that they can't give me the loudness I want.

EDIT: The only case in which I'd exaggerate the volume of an instrument is by letting a buss compressor catch its peaks.
Last edited by Yasae; 03-22-2010 at 05:49 PM.
Articate
Banned
(03-22-2010, 06:30 PM)

Originally Posted by Yasae

You would require headroom in all cases. The dynamics could be very limited (*cough* Justice *cough*) but that doesn't mean you clip faders left and right.

Unless it sounds good, but god.. That sounds horrible enough on a console and even worse in digital. People have got so much unused gain on their monitors yet they tend to really crank faders. Faders are for balance. You wouldn't even touch them on a recording path.

Sometimes it can creep up on you, but if I find I'm adding too much gain with them in Reaper, I select all and ctrl drag the faders down. Never once have my monitors been so weak that they can't give me the loudness I want.

EDIT: The only case in which I'd exaggerate the volume of an instrument is by letting a buss compressor catch its peaks.

Again. Head-room is a good choice for the recording part of a production. Not mixing and mastering.

This seems to start nearing the loudness war discussion which I didn't want to touch, but that aside, compression is not about limit the dynamics of a sample. The transient of a drum-hit isn't THAT interesting. It should be there, but the way you're talking, if you'd record a band and leave the recordings of the drums without any compressing and/or limiting, your monitors might actually soon not have enough power to drive the low overall volumes of the mix.

Again, feel free to go back to my examples some posts back. You can hear my first mix where I barely use any individual track compression and EQing, vs a track where I tighten it up and make it sound more punchy. That's what it's about.


White Panic, Saxon Shore are two great examples of bands that use overcompression as an aestethic tool to their music, but all the music you listen to uses compression, just in a different manner.
Yasae
Banned
(03-22-2010, 07:46 PM)
Yasae's Avatar

Originally Posted by Articate

Again. Head-room is a good choice for the recording part of a production. Not mixing and mastering.

This seems to start nearing the loudness war discussion which I didn't want to touch, but that aside, compression is not about limit the dynamics of a sample. The transient of a drum-hit isn't THAT interesting. It should be there, but the way you're talking, if you'd record a band and leave the recordings of the drums without any compressing and/or limiting, your monitors might actually soon not have enough power to drive the low overall volumes of the mix.

Again, feel free to go back to my examples some posts back. You can hear my first mix where I barely use any individual track compression and EQing, vs a track where I tighten it up and make it sound more punchy. That's what it's about.


White Panic, Saxon Shore are two great examples of bands that use overcompression as an aestethic tool to their music, but all the music you listen to uses compression, just in a different manner.

I'm saying that monitors have an overabundance of power. Even crappy amps will get you plenty, plenty loud. But rather than calibrate listening levels, some people go straight for pushing all the faders way up just to hear their tracks. If I really got a project which was super quiet, I'd be normalizing at a consistent gain for every track. I would not go for raising the faders up immediately. I would probably run out of gain anyway - they don't slide up forever. Add to that less-than-perfect resolution compared to a console and it can sound a bit nasty.

I mean if you're clipping a snare, hmm.. Your faders are probably up too high. Just because it's peaky doesn't mean you let it clip. I'm not sure what you mean with compression. If anything that would give you more headroom unless the output gain is boosted beyond unity.

I do understand about ducking/sidechaining. I had to link the guitars, bass, overheads, and acoustics to the vocals with a recent project. It's definitely not applied in a way that you starkly hear - low ratios (1.5:1 or less), low gain reduction (1.5dB GR or less). It's more to emulate broad volume automation that would make the work more tedious.

Not so with harder electronic music. It's all about the pulsing. Starting to become a tired cliche, though.
Articate
Banned
(03-22-2010, 07:54 PM)
We're talking past each other. It seems you're talking about recording stuff while I'm talking about mixing, since it was BowieZ's question that was discussed.
Yasae
Banned
(03-22-2010, 08:12 PM)
Yasae's Avatar

Originally Posted by Articate

We're talking past each other. It seems you're talking about recording stuff while I'm talking about mixing, since it was BowieZ's question that was discussed.

No actually I'm not. Headroom is the amount of gain left before distortion. How would that not be important towards mixing? Gain staging is vital the whole way through: recording, mixing, mastering.

I didn't answer his main question because it doesn't tell me enough. What is "phat?" That's a very subjective term. I would associate a lower tuning, smeared image, and plenty of sample layering with "phat." But.. Not sure everyone would agree.

Point to examples first. I like the snare in _______ <- where there's a link.
kid ness
Member
(03-22-2010, 11:57 PM)

Originally Posted by AgentWhiskersX

What an awesome thread. I'm partially new to this whole music producer business as I have been a musician on real instruments for almost a decade. This is one of the first things I created on Garage Band using only my MacBook Pro's keyboard. :lol

The End is Not What It Seems - Shit, same could be said about this song

Hey man, I really liked that song. The beginning was a little slow, but after that, it was great. Thanks!
Teknopathetic
Now we can settle this like gentlemen or we can get into some ol gangster shit
(03-23-2010, 12:08 AM)
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Can I just remark how satisfying it is to make real progress with sound design? No starting with a preset and tweaking it until you get something close-ish to what you want, no following a tutorial to get a super basic and flat approximation of what you want. Just starting with a bare oscillator or two and then using your understanding of synthesis to shape them to the exact sound you were looking for. In this case, it wasn't anything particularly complicated or original (A jazzy house stab), but *I* did it and it actually sounds decent.
Outdoor Miner
Member
(03-23-2010, 05:10 AM)
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Originally Posted by Teknopathetic

Can I just remark how satisfying it is to make real progress with sound design? No starting with a preset and tweaking it until you get something close-ish to what you want, no following a tutorial to get a super basic and flat approximation of what you want. Just starting with a bare oscillator or two and then using your understanding of synthesis to shape them to the exact sound you were looking for. In this case, it wasn't anything particularly complicated or original (A jazzy house stab), but *I* did it and it actually sounds decent.

That does sound like it would be satisfying. Hopefully I can get to that point one day.
Articate
Banned
(03-23-2010, 11:13 AM)

Originally Posted by Outdoor Miner

That does sound like it would be satisfying. Hopefully I can get to that point one day.

Grab a synth. Play around with it. Do it.
Tr4nce
Member
(03-23-2010, 12:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by Teknopathetic

Can I just remark how satisfying it is to make real progress with sound design? No starting with a preset and tweaking it until you get something close-ish to what you want, no following a tutorial to get a super basic and flat approximation of what you want. Just starting with a bare oscillator or two and then using your understanding of synthesis to shape them to the exact sound you were looking for. In this case, it wasn't anything particularly complicated or original (A jazzy house stab), but *I* did it and it actually sounds decent.

Yeah, it is. When I started making music, I used presets or tweak them. But like John 'OO' Fleming also said in his masterclass (link in the OP), it's so much more rewarding when you make sounds yourself. You can flick for hours through all of the presets and still not find one! That's why it is important to learn synthesis, so you can create sounds yourself that fit in your mix.

The hard part is though, there's several kinds of synthesis. Granular, subtractive, etc. etc. But yes, people should learn their synths inside out, so you know how to make your own sounds!
Nyx
Member
(03-23-2010, 05:01 PM)
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For me that is too much, I would have to start from scratch with learning things about synthesis, and I just don't have the time for that. (or the motivation I guess)

I use presets and samples mostly, tweaking them here and there so it becomes a sound I want to use in a track.
Chasteleth
Member
(03-23-2010, 06:08 PM)
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Learning how to use synthesis to create your own patches is definitely worthwhile and can be rewarding. It definitely saves time that you would spend looking for preset which may be close but not quite what you're looking for. Its also fun to take small samples of audio and put them into a sampler, which you can then use to manipulate the audio to make pads and other synth type of sounds.
Teknopathetic
Now we can settle this like gentlemen or we can get into some ol gangster shit
(03-24-2010, 02:56 AM)
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Anyone following Musikmesse? Looking for something to get lusty over.

The Monotron looks kinda neat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-v0FT8lXGSo

Analog synth, 1 oscillator, 1 filter, 1 LFO, external audio input for supposedly 50e. Totally a toy, but I can dig it.
Fusebox
Banned
(03-24-2010, 02:59 AM)
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Monotron looks neat, I think I'd get the Dave Smith Mopho if I was after a unit like that though. The Mopho is seriously fat.
Yasae
Banned
(03-24-2010, 05:13 AM)
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Originally Posted by Teknopathetic

Can I just remark how satisfying it is to make real progress with sound design? No starting with a preset and tweaking it until you get something close-ish to what you want, no following a tutorial to get a super basic and flat approximation of what you want. Just starting with a bare oscillator or two and then using your understanding of synthesis to shape them to the exact sound you were looking for. In this case, it wasn't anything particularly complicated or original (A jazzy house stab), but *I* did it and it actually sounds decent.

Very satisfying indeed.

It also extends to all parts of music. I want to write a song that sounds a certain way in my head, so I do everything in my power to make it sound that way. Same thing for a mix. Same thing for a master. They're all capturing a ghost, they all involve hearing the final product first and then working towards that.
Solaros
Member
(03-24-2010, 08:40 AM)

GEAR LIST

Computer:
AMD Athlon 64 Processor 3800+
2GB RAM
Windows 7 64-bit
(I built this rig about 6 years back and haven't updated since, but nothing in it has failed)


Software:
Acid Pro
EZ Drummer/Drums from Hell
Reason 4.0

Interface:
PreSonus Tube Preamp
M-Audio Firewire Solo

Speakers:
Onkyo Surround Sound System

Other gear:
BBE 482i Sonic Maximizer
M Audio Axiom 49
Line 6 Amp w/ Line Out for when I have to be quiet

Mics:
MXL 990
SHURE SM57
SHURE SM58

I am starting to record some of the things I write on guitar. Here is my first attempt:

http://soundcloud.com/solaros/jazz-song

I recorded it with my Carvin DC-747, a SM57, a SM58, and my Peavey 5150 II head and cabinet. I used EZ Drummer with the Drumkit from Hell. Most of the drum grooves are premade with a little bit of customization here and there. I do normally make my own beats, but I want to actually learn how to get a good sounding track before I spend a couple hours programming drums. I am pretty happy with the tone I am getting out of my guitar. I mic the cabinet with a SM57 right up against the grill in the center of the speaker, and a SM58 about 3 feet back. I've messed around with trying it a couple different ways, and I think it captures the edginess of the guitars that I want. That clean, but biting sound. Any feedback on how to do this better though would be great, as I really have no clue what I am doing. The track doesn't have any EQ adjustments, and I put a compressor on the guitars and the main mix I think. I would really appreciate some feedback.

Truant has some really great sounding professional stuff and if you have any suggestions, tips, pointers, resources, or anything, it would be greatly appreciated. I understand what you mean by velocity programming. I finally messed around with that and I can definitely tell a difference in my drum VSTi. It definitely makes it sound more human, which is good. I do have access to a really good drummer and I was contemplating dropping the $800 or so it would cost for the interface, mics, and stands. Any suggestions if I do go that route or should I save the money and just do them myself?

Edit: Any helpful links to sideline compression?
Last edited by Solaros; 03-24-2010 at 09:00 AM.
Tr4nce
Member
(03-24-2010, 08:47 AM)
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That Monotron thing looks really great because it's so small. What a funny little device. Won't be buying this though. I'm glad i've got my Akai LPK25 (also 50e). It's awesome! Midi keyboards improve the workflow so very much. I regret the fact I didn't buy it earlier!
POWERSPHERE
Banned
(03-24-2010, 12:08 PM)
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The Monotron has the MS20/MS10 filter in it! FUCKING MONSTEROUS!!! Does it have audio in? That'd be amazing if so.
Tr4nce
Member
(03-24-2010, 12:10 PM)
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[IMG]http://i41.************/2e37311.jpg[/IMG]

Just bought this month's Computer Magazine (see OP)!

Off too watch the Super8 & Tab Masterclass now! :)
Yasae
Banned
(03-24-2010, 03:38 PM)
Yasae's Avatar

Originally Posted by Solaros

I am starting to record some of the things I write on guitar. Here is my first attempt:

http://soundcloud.com/solaros/jazz-song

I recorded it with my Carvin DC-747, a SM57, a SM58, and my Peavey 5150 II head and cabinet. I used EZ Drummer with the Drumkit from Hell. Most of the drum grooves are premade with a little bit of customization here and there. I do normally make my own beats, but I want to actually learn how to get a good sounding track before I spend a couple hours programming drums. I am pretty happy with the tone I am getting out of my guitar. I mic the cabinet with a SM57 right up against the grill in the center of the speaker, and a SM58 about 3 feet back. I've messed around with trying it a couple different ways, and I think it captures the edginess of the guitars that I want. That clean, but biting sound. Any feedback on how to do this better though would be great, as I really have no clue what I am doing. The track doesn't have any EQ adjustments, and I put a compressor on the guitars and the main mix I think. I would really appreciate some feedback.

Truant has some really great sounding professional stuff and if you have any suggestions, tips, pointers, resources, or anything, it would be greatly appreciated. I understand what you mean by velocity programming. I finally messed around with that and I can definitely tell a difference in my drum VSTi. It definitely makes it sound more human, which is good. I do have access to a really good drummer and I was contemplating dropping the $800 or so it would cost for the interface, mics, and stands. Any suggestions if I do go that route or should I save the money and just do them myself?

Edit: Any helpful links to sideline compression?

Are you happy with your results? If you really were, nobody could help you. Why would they? You're already satisfied. It's like giving a wealthy man gold.

So what specifically do you not like about your results? If it's nothing.. I have no advice.

If you want to record drums, the space matters a lot. The gear is mostly interchangeable at that price point - really not very important... Though you're not going to find decent overheards in that range. Oktava MK-012s? Rode NT5s? SE4s? Those start at over $400 a pair. Then the interface.. Firepod? Saffire Pro 40? Those start at $500. If you don't mind overdubs, use the 57 on snare and 58 on kick (albeit it being a mediocre choice.) No close tom mics, no cables, no stands, no accessories and already $100 over budget. So what of the space? What of the kit?

Granted the drums sound canned, but there's very little way around that anyway.
samus i am
Member
(03-24-2010, 03:57 PM)
samus i am's Avatar
I have been playing around with a couple different things for a few years. I'm not really doing this professionally or anything. It's just something that I enjoy doing. I created a remix to a T Pain song and if anybody would like to offer me suggestions it would be appreciated.

T Pain - Take Your Shirt Off
probune
Member
(03-24-2010, 03:58 PM)
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I am also an audio person. I'm trying to get more into the electronic music stuff on Fruity Loops and stuff, but I'm still most comfortable engineering music in a studio and editing it in Pro Tools.

My resume and reel: http://bgmedina.com/
cory
Banned
(03-24-2010, 04:04 PM)
This is a remix I made of "Transform Ya" by Chris Brown.
probune
Member
(03-24-2010, 04:09 PM)
probune's Avatar

Originally Posted by Solaros

I am starting to record some of the things I write on guitar. Here is my first attempt:

http://soundcloud.com/solaros/jazz-song

I recorded it with my Carvin DC-747, a SM57, a SM58, and my Peavey 5150 II head and cabinet. I used EZ Drummer with the Drumkit from Hell. Most of the drum grooves are premade with a little bit of customization here and there. I do normally make my own beats, but I want to actually learn how to get a good sounding track before I spend a couple hours programming drums. I am pretty happy with the tone I am getting out of my guitar. I mic the cabinet with a SM57 right up against the grill in the center of the speaker, and a SM58 about 3 feet back. I've messed around with trying it a couple different ways, and I think it captures the edginess of the guitars that I want. That clean, but biting sound. Any feedback on how to do this better though would be great, as I really have no clue what I am doing. The track doesn't have any EQ adjustments, and I put a compressor on the guitars and the main mix I think. I would really appreciate some feedback.

I like the tone of the guitar. I feel like you could use EQ to cut out some lower mids, like around 300-400hz. If you want a more midrangey, biting sound, boost at around 1000-2000hz, and if you want it to be buzzier, boost from like 6 or 8k and up.

Can't particularly comment on the mix because I don't know how much control you would have over the EQ of the specific elements of the kit in that program, as I've never used EZ drummer, and I don't know if there's a bass in the track (if it's there, I can't hear it at all).
btkadams
Member
(03-24-2010, 04:39 PM)
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how am i just seeing this now?

i began producing rock tracks when i was 14 with cubase LE. i've never been taught anything about production so i wasn't doing too much except managing levels, reverb and recording. i don't even know if i was compressing? haha. i grew tired of that music at 16 and started moving into electronic. i first started producing electronic when i was 17 and i'm just about 20 now.

i used garageband for a while (for the electronic stuff) and felt i really maximized what i could out of the program. it would honestly blow someones mind to see all the pain in the ass tricks i had to pull off to get something to sound similar to a professional effect. the program is so wonderful, but has random limits that are sooo crippling. i think they do it on purpose so that you want to buy logic or something.

right now i'm using ableton suite 8. i bought it a few weeks ago but have been using earlier versions of ableton (*shifty eyes*) for just over a year. i'm loving it! i get really professional sounds out of it. i'm just trying to figure out my way through it now.

oh and for hardware i have an apc40 for live mixing of songs and i have a microKORG for recording synths. i use a firepod as an audio interface.


i'd say my biggest challenge right now is trying to find the perfect kick drum sound.
Yasae
Banned
(03-24-2010, 05:01 PM)
Yasae's Avatar

Originally Posted by probune

I like the tone of the guitar. I feel like you could use EQ to cut out some lower mids, like around 300-400hz. If you want a more midrangey, biting sound, boost at around 1000-2000hz, and if you want it to be buzzier, boost from like 6 or 8k and up.

Can't particularly comment on the mix because I don't know how much control you would have over the EQ of the specific elements of the kit in that program, as I've never used EZ drummer, and I don't know if there's a bass in the track (if it's there, I can't hear it at all).

Let's go one step further and actually provide some guitar sounds that do sound good. (Or at least I'd like to think they do.)

Here's one: http://soundcloud.com/yasae/gtr-ex1

Here's another: http://soundcloud.com/yasae/gtr-ex2

Funny how they just so happen to both have doubles, different amps for different parts, and hell.. I even added a dupe or two (time-delayed duplication of a track used to create width or symmetry.)

But that's for more than one guitar. With a solo I certainly wouldn't start panning things out hard left or right - maybe 11 or 1 o'clock to start. You could also move the snare and kick ever so slightly to one side for more space. There's also no real ambience, and even worse, no spring reverb. A short plate or series of short-but differently set delays can help with placing it in the mix.

Remember, your drums are slamming away in a big room.. But your guitar isn't...
Teknopathetic
Now we can settle this like gentlemen or we can get into some ol gangster shit
(03-24-2010, 05:46 PM)
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"The Monotron has the MS20/MS10 filter in it! FUCKING MONSTEROUS!!! Does it have audio in? That'd be amazing if so."

Yep. Has External in. MSRP of 85$, so I'd guess a street price of 60-70$. Well within impulse buy range for me.
Solaros
Member
(03-24-2010, 08:07 PM)

Originally Posted by Yasae

Are you happy with your results? If you really were, nobody could help you. Why would they? You're already satisfied. It's like giving a wealthy man gold.

So what specifically do you not like about your results? If it's nothing.. I have no advice.

Granted the drums sound canned, but there's very little way around that anyway.

No, I'm not completely happy with my results.

I like the sound of the guitar, but that's about where my happiness with my recording abilities end. It sounds like separate tracks with separate parts and not a cohesive track. It isn't punchy, or anything. To keep it simple, let's not even worry about getting all the stuff for drums, since I would prefer to be able to do all of this on my own.

Specifically I am not satisfied with how it sounds overall. It just seems to be missing something that a lot of professional sounding tracks have. I am by no means a professional, as, like I said, I don't really know what I am doing, so I don't expect it to sound like that. I would like to get it close to something along the lines of Truant's production quality though.

Originally Posted by probune

I like the tone of the guitar. I feel like you could use EQ to cut out some lower mids, like around 300-400hz. If you want a more midrangey, biting sound, boost at around 1000-2000hz, and if you want it to be buzzier, boost from like 6 or 8k and up.

Can't particularly comment on the mix because I don't know how much control you would have over the EQ of the specific elements of the kit in that program, as I've never used EZ drummer, and I don't know if there's a bass in the track (if it's there, I can't hear it at all).

It has a built in mixer in the VSTi. Is there anything specific that you can suggest besides velocity programming with regards to tracking drums on a midi program like that?
Ducarmel
Member
(03-24-2010, 08:40 PM)
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Some of you may have read that I have FL studio and my problem with producing wasn't about how to use the software but more on my lack of skill in theory of music composition then applying it to electronic music production.

That said all week I have been listening to the GoldenEye 64 and Perfect Dark 64 soundtrack. I been searching about what genre it falls in and could not find anything. I want to emulate those sounds and wanted to study the general compositions of the music in that category.

some examples
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfSmB...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyqNM...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kLZP...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ner18...eature=related my fav
Last edited by Ducarmel; 03-24-2010 at 08:46 PM.
HappyBivouac
Member
(03-24-2010, 09:25 PM)
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I've been a bedroom composer/producer for about 10 years now. Started composing .mid files in Anvil Studio when I was 12 and quickly went on to Fruity, which i love and still use. It really is versatile and powerful, but certainly not the most intuitive thing out there today. The problem with it and reason it gets such a bad rap is that it is VERY intuitive for making generic boring, beat-centered dance music. A lot of people get FL Studio, throw something like that together with very little music knowledge and using only the base plugins/samples that come with the program, and put it online for all to hear. As a result a lot of elitist musicians go around saying FL Studio produces "inferior" sound. One thing you need to do with FL Studio is discover the piano roll asap. If you don't, you're doomed.

My equipment for this stuff: nothing more than my PC with FL Studio, a mouse, a computer keyboard, and those cheap Alesis USB Monitors. Been messing around with my korg nano set recently though.

I'm not sure what you'd call my music. I listen to a lot of IDM like Autechre and BoC; post-rock like Do Make Say Think and Tortoise; psychedelic rock like The Flaming Lips (though I haven't even listened to Embryonic yet.. shame on me); other stuff, and of course plenty of video game music. I'd like to say you can hear all of this in what I do.

An attempt to put the soul and emotion of rock, jazz and classical into methodical computer-driven IDM, maybe. The production is pretty unorthodox but I spend a lot of time on it and like the ideas I've come up with.

you can listen to what I've been doing lately here:


Link
Last edited by HappyBivouac; 03-24-2010 at 09:29 PM.
btkadams
Member
(03-24-2010, 10:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by Tr4nce

[IMG]http://i41.************/2e37311.jpg[IMG]

Just bought this month's Computer Magazine (see OP)!

Off too watch the Super8 & Tab Masterclass now! :)

how is this? i'm considering buying it on my way home. it looks cool. does it like offer tips on how to create different sounds with synths? or does it just like have a list of different synthesizers you can buy?
Insane Metal
Dispensed Internet Salt
(03-24-2010, 10:20 PM)
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I wanna learn this :(
Teknopathetic
Now we can settle this like gentlemen or we can get into some ol gangster shit
(03-24-2010, 11:21 PM)
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http://createdigitalmusic.com/2010/0...ncer-for-op-1/

More on the Teenage Engineering OP-1. Looks so damned sexy and fully featured.
cory
Banned
(03-25-2010, 12:07 AM)

Originally Posted by HappyBivouac

I've been a bedroom composer/producer for about 10 years now. Started composing .mid files in Anvil Studio when I was 12 and quickly went on to Fruity, which i love and still use. It really is versatile and powerful, but certainly not the most intuitive thing out there today. The problem with it and reason it gets such a bad rap is that it is VERY intuitive for making generic boring, beat-centered dance music. A lot of people get FL Studio, throw something like that together with very little music knowledge and using only the base plugins/samples that come with the program, and put it online for all to hear. As a result a lot of elitist musicians go around saying FL Studio produces "inferior" sound. One thing you need to do with FL Studio is discover the piano roll asap. If you don't, you're doomed.

Am I doing okay with FL Studio?
http://soundcloud.com/cory64/tracks
Yasae
Banned
(03-25-2010, 06:46 AM)
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Originally Posted by Solaros

No, I'm not completely happy with my results.

I like the sound of the guitar, but that's about where my happiness with my recording abilities end. It sounds like separate tracks with separate parts and not a cohesive track. It isn't punchy, or anything. To keep it simple, let's not even worry about getting all the stuff for drums, since I would prefer to be able to do all of this on my own.

Specifically I am not satisfied with how it sounds overall. It just seems to be missing something that a lot of professional sounding tracks have. I am by no means a professional, as, like I said, I don't really know what I am doing, so I don't expect it to sound like that. I would like to get it close to something along the lines of Truant's production quality though.

Regarding Truant's work: I would say Addictive Drums sound a lot better in general. I can still hear some machine-gunning from the snare and whatnot, but it's pretty close. Lots of attention to detail, and not especially complex parts. Surprisingly good sounding for a podxt on the guitars and bass. Perhaps not every emulation is amazing; there's some fuzziness and phasiness on certain signals that sounds unnatural.

He also mults the bass - basically duplicates the track how many ever times, and designates each as belonging to a separate frequency band or makes them sound different entirely. For example, track 1 could be Bass_Low, where you have a low pass at say... 250Hz. Then there's track 2 which is Bass_Mid, with a high pass around the same area and a low pass around 4kHz. Finally there's track 3 as Bass_High, with a high pass around 4kHz. There are important frequencies in each of these ranges even for bass. It's best to listen for phase cancellation aplenty with this technique, as you do have crossover ranges, but I've never had any major problems with it.

I know this sounds almost exactly like multiband compression. Still, it gives you a lot more control over the shape of a sound rather than just compressing a frequency range. You might saturate, add a delay, add some other effect, add a transient designer, compress, eq, etc to just one bass track of the three. (It also has a lot of potential for abuse I suppose.)

Imogen Heap does this for vocals. Michael Brauer (look him up) does this for bass and snares quite a bit, too. It helps reinforce harmonics that compression does not bring out - because as you know, bass can hit some fundamentals much harder than others. It increases transferability between systems.




...Unfortunately none of that's going to fix your major problems. Better programming, a better choice of samples, and a better sense of space would help greatly.
Tr4nce
Member
(03-25-2010, 09:22 AM)
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Originally Posted by btkadams

how is this? i'm considering buying it on my way home. it looks cool. does it like offer tips on how to create different sounds with synths? or does it just like have a list of different synthesizers you can buy?


Oh, it's another fine edition of Computer Music I'd say! There's stuff about synthesis in it, where they show you really basic stuff about programming your own sounds. The masterlcass was a bit of a letdown though: in the video you can't see what happens on the screen of the producer duo, because it's all washed out. I mailed CM about it, it annoys the hell out of me.

Originally Posted by Yasae

He also mults the bass - basically duplicates the track how many ever times, and designates each as belonging to a separate frequency band or makes them sound different entirely. For example, track 1 could be Bass_Low, where you have a low pass at say... 250Hz. Then there's track 2 which is Bass_Mid, with a high pass around the same area and a low pass around 4kHz. Finally there's track 3 as Bass_High, with a high pass around 4kHz. There are important frequencies in each of these ranges even for bass. It's best to listen for phase cancellation aplenty with this technique, as you do have crossover ranges, but I've never had any major problems with it.


Yeah, I always use multiple basslines, but that is more because every Trance track nowadays has them, where as a few years ago, you could have made it with 'just' two basslines. The difficulty is that you have to give each bassline their space in the mix, cutting frequencies here and there. Then you have to 'gel' them together via compression. Very hard, but it can be very rewarding. I've been in a thread on another forum a while ago, where we were discussing this issue.

So, if you want to know more about mixing multiple basslines, that I posted on another forum. It's a Trance track, but technically this applies to every genre with multiple basslines:

Sub Bass




note: this bassline is used to give the track some good low end bass. As you can see, I've given it a little boost at 62 Hz, but that is not really the usual way to go, because the low end should not be too present. Also, it could interfere with your kick drum this way, but it sounds nice in this case, so I left it this way. Also, I got rid of all the high frequencies, because this is the very low bass part, and it would only cloud up my mix, interfering with the percussion and the other 3 basslines.


Mid Bass





note: this is the bassline which plays the same notes as the sub bass line, but it adds some low-mid frequencies to spicen up the sound somewhat. I cutted a little around 125 Hz, to make room for the kick drum. Also, boosted a little bit at 1 Khz and 4Khz to emphasise the sound somewhat. Then, I rolled of the extreme highs, again to not interfere with the percussion and to give the high bassline some space.



High Bass


[IMG]http://i47.************/hx3fv9.jpg[/IMG]


note: this is the bassline which plays in the higher frequencies to give it some sparkle. It plays the same pattern as the previous two basslines. As you can see, I've completely cut away the lower end, because the previous two basslines need this space. I also boosted it 12db @ 1kHz and further on, but that is wayyyyyyy to much. :lol You should never really boost more than 6db's. Also when EQ'ing, learn to always cut before boosting! Less is more!



Rolling Bass


[IMG]http://i47.************/r2w8p2.jpg[/IMG]


note: this is the bassline that gives the track the drive. It doesn't play the same pattern as the other 3 basslines, instead it has way more rythm and also plays in two octaves. Did some boosting @ 1Khz and also cut some frequencies which are already somewhat occupied by the other basslines. By cutting away some problem frequency area's, the basslines didn't clash with each other.


Furthermore, everything is high-passed @ 40 Hz, because these sounds just cloud the mix, they clutter the low end area, so just get rid of them! Then I sidechained all of the basslines with the kick, so they gel together and they don't interfere with the kick. The sidechaining is not to heavy though, I didn't want that pumping effect to be 'in your face'. Also, don't take my advise to be the exact truth or something. It's just a guideline. And Reason's EQ's suck so much ass, I can't wait for my new iMac to arrive with Logic Pro on it.

Here's the result: http://www.speedyshare.com/files/21607198/sample2.wav


sorry for the long post :P
Last edited by Tr4nce; 03-25-2010 at 09:40 AM.
Tr4nce
Member
(03-25-2010, 09:41 AM)
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Oh, for the hell of it. For people wanting to know how to do sidechaining in Reason. Here we go.


[IMG]http://i40.************/j5w4ti.jpg[/IMG]


note:

1) Create a 14:2 mixer. After this, press TAB to turn the rack around, so you can connect the cables in the correct manner.

2) Create a NN19. Hold the Shift button, so that the device doesn't auto connect to the mixer. Then load a .wav kick drum which you like. Create a Spider Audio Merger/Splitter. Again, hold the Shift button.

3) Connect the audio outputs of the NN19 to the first Splitter inputs on the Spider, see picture. Then route the first two Spider outputs to Channel 1 on the mixer.

4) Create a device which you prefer for playing your bass notes. Again, hold the Shift button! In this case, I used a subtractor. Then (yes hold Shift again!) create a Masterclass Compressor.

5) Connect the main output of the bass synth to the compressor inputs, and then route the outputs to Channel 2 on the mixer. Then connect the 'sidechain in' inputs to the second splitter outputs of the spider (see picture).



6) Now, make sure your Compressor has these settings:


[IMG]http://i44.************/fmnt3.jpg[/IMG]



Note:

Make sure to copy these settings. Now, when you play the kick drum, your bassline should 'duck' the kick drum, everytime the kick drum hits. These compressor settings are very 'pumping', so adjust the settings to make the effect less rigid. For a less pumping feel, adjust the Threshold and Ratio parameters.


7) To really notice the effect, make sure your bass synth plays one long note along with the kick drum, like this:


[IMG]http://i41.************/10ojns2.jpg[/IMG]


Furthermore, you can also use sidechaining for white noise FX, so you get that swooshing sound playing, but ducking everytime the kick drum plays. Experiment!! :)


Download the Reason Project File! :

http://www.filedropper.com/gafexample
Last edited by Tr4nce; 03-25-2010 at 10:23 AM.
Tr4nce
Member
(03-25-2010, 10:42 AM)
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Also, if we all share some self made tutorials. I will post them in the OP as well, with a hotlink to the specific post in the thread. Have also updated the OP!
Nyx
Member
(03-25-2010, 10:45 AM)
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Interesting stuff Tr4nce !

Definitely gonna experiment with it.

Regarding the ''woosh'' sound, or white noise FX, I always have to find samples for this as I have no clue on how to create a 'woosh' sound myself, any hints on this ?
Tr4nce
Member
(03-25-2010, 11:30 AM)
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Originally Posted by Nyx

Interesting stuff Tr4nce !

Definitely gonna experiment with it.

Regarding the ''woosh'' sound, or white noise FX, I always have to find samples for this as I have no clue on how to create a 'woosh' sound myself, any hints on this ?


Hey mate. Uhm, what software/synths do you work with? There's several ways of obtaining these sounds, man:

Firstly, you could try and find audio samples on the internet. Shouldn't be too hard.

Secondly, you could try making it yourself: Edit: I saw on page 1 you use Reason, so this is very handy for me.

Whatever synth you use, make sure to have the oscillators set to 'noise'. Then also set the cutoff filter to BandPass or often BP or something like that. Draw a long note for the synth which plays the swooshing sound.Then for that swooshing sound, automate the filter cutoff. By automation, I mean having the filter open up gradually, to get the swooshing effect.

My Reason Example



Picture of the automation:

[IMG]http://i39.************/otg7lz.jpg[/IMG]
Last edited by Tr4nce; 03-25-2010 at 11:35 AM.
Nyx
Member
(03-25-2010, 11:34 AM)
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Originally Posted by Tr4nce

Hey mate. Uhm, what software/synths do you work with? There's several ways of obtaining these sounds, man

I use Reason 4, and only used ''woosh'' samples instead of creating the sound myself as I didn't know where to start.

Will try this when I get home, thanks again. :)
Tr4nce
Member
(03-25-2010, 11:37 AM)
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Originally Posted by Nyx

I use Reason 4, and only used ''woosh'' samples instead of creating the sound myself as I didn't know where to start.

Will try this when I get home, thanks again. :)


Cheers man. Also experiment with the settings on the subtractor. because I made this in 2 minutes and it's really not the best Swoosh Sound :P
Yasae
Banned
(03-25-2010, 11:46 AM)
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Originally Posted by Tr4nce

Yeah, I always use multiple basslines, but that is more because every Trance track nowadays has them, where as a few years ago, you could have made it with 'just' two basslines. The difficulty is that you have to give each bassline their space in the mix, cutting frequencies here and there. Then you have to 'gel' them together via compression. Very hard, but it can be very rewarding. I've been in a thread on another forum a while ago, where we were discussing this issue.

You can hear the snare in John Mayer's "Belief" suddenly pick up a lot of attack after the two bar opening loop. That's how much multing can make a difference. Though Brauer only had one snare track to work with and yet didn't choose to reamp...
Tr4nce
Member
(03-25-2010, 03:36 PM)
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So Gaf, I was screwing around with the Swooshing Sound file which I made earlier in Reason today and I came up with this small loop. What do you think? How are the levels, is it clean enough, does it have enough bass, etc. etc. ?

Preview Link
chaostrophy
Member
(03-25-2010, 03:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by Teknopathetic

Anyone following Musikmesse? Looking for something to get lusty over.

The Monotron looks kinda neat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-v0FT8lXGSo

Analog synth, 1 oscillator, 1 filter, 1 LFO, external audio input for supposedly 50e. Totally a toy, but I can dig it.

That does look fun.

If anyone's looking for a badass monosynth, I recommend the Dave Smith Evolver. It's a hybrid analog/digital design, extremely flexible and well thought out. With a sound that tends toward the aggressive and gritty. DSI also makes the Mopho analog monosynth, which I've never personally used, but I imagine sounds great because Smith is a living legend of synth design.
Outdoor Miner
Member
(03-25-2010, 09:53 PM)
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Well I finally decided on a Akai LPK25 + LPD8 bundle. Gives me all the functionality of the MPK25 at half the price, and with better pads and keys judging by reviews.

For software the consensus for best free learner synth seems to be Synth1, though I found a really nice blog/tutorial that features Clearsynth. So I grabbed both. Later (much much later lol) down the road I am going to grab Native Instruments Komplete bundle, as it just has a godly amount of stuff in it. I don't picture needing much after that purchase.

Exciting stuff!
Teknopathetic
Now we can settle this like gentlemen or we can get into some ol gangster shit
(03-26-2010, 12:19 AM)
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http://createdigitalmusic.com/2010/0...y-its-awesome/
http://www.sonicstate.com/news/2010/...onary-sampler/



:O~~~
Tr4nce
Member
(03-26-2010, 09:52 AM)
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What a sick little thing! I bet it's gonna be 500 bucks at least though!

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