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Aters
Member
(10-07-2017, 10:42 AM)
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I might get the new AssCreed down the road when it's dirt cheap. Every other weatern AAA game this fall is a hard pass for me.
ViciousDS
Member
(10-07-2017, 10:43 AM)
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Not skipping


But I am renewing my gamefly subscription because of how many we are getting


Assassins creed seems to at least be done well so far.....only the release will tell, after all the reviews dont mention anything of them of course
sirap
Member
(10-07-2017, 10:45 AM)
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Originally Posted by jem0208

There is no evidence that Origins has loot boxes.

I'm waiting for reviewers/gaffers to report on this once it's out. It's no longer a day one purchase for me though, I think I'll play Mario instead.
Strazyplus
Member
(10-07-2017, 10:48 AM)
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The only acceptable lootbox is the one you can't buy. (with real currency)
brau
Member
(10-07-2017, 10:49 AM)
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Originally Posted by Theorry

There is no MT with that in Origins. You just get some loot from vendors with ingame currency. Like Horizon.

Oh. That's not bad I guess.
sublimit
If I doubt a Kotaku rumor, it's probably true
(10-07-2017, 10:52 AM)
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Originally Posted by GHG

As long as it stays that way and the game economy is reasonable then I'm ok with it.

If they add the option to buy them with real money then no bueno.

I have a feeling they will keep it that way until release in order to not risk bad review scores and then add the option for real money later.

And i doubt the game's economy will be balanced.
m_dorian
Member
(10-07-2017, 10:54 AM)
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I am skipping any fully priced SP game that has loot boxes and asks real money for them but i could close an eye to cosmetic only boxes.

I know this war is not winnable, people will buy those games and some developers will put them in their games.

Here's Jim Sterling's take on SoW loot boxes with arguments covering the issue in general.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igjXK1IAM9I
Bishop89
Member
(10-07-2017, 10:54 AM)
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Na if the game interests me, Loot boxes aren't going to turn me off.
Nick_C
Member
(10-07-2017, 10:54 AM)
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Originally Posted by Scrooge McDuck

Er, I think listing which RPG that doesn't actually have RNG loot is easier.

RNG loot is a common mechanic, yes. There's an entire sub-genre that's heavily influenced by the mechanic. RNG loot chests that require some form of currnecy exchange, not so much. At least to my knowledge. The closest thing I can think of is Borderlands 2 and the Pre-sequel having the golden chest, but that required Golden Keys that were obtained through codes given out by Gearbox social media or that one guy that lies all the time.

What's his name? Kind of an asshole. Has a real hard-on for Jim Sterling? You know, the guy that lies all the time, thinks Aliens: Colonial Marines is a good game?
Novel Mike
Member
(10-07-2017, 10:58 AM)
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AC Origins might not have loot boxes but it'll have microtransactions without question, they've done that for every modern AC game, I don't see it changing now.

So yeah not buying any of these AAA games with any form of microtransactions. If I do get them I'll get them second hand, I will not put my money towards these sort of practices when now they are clearly getting completely out of control.

I let it go with Overwatch because at the time I figured loot boxes made for a better business model then having to pay for new characters/maps/ect. but companies doing that crap on TOP of loot boxes/microtransactions? No just fuck right off.

I get people still want to enjoy the games and will pick them up anyway even if they claim they won't purchase these things but when games are clearly being designed around these elements your game is compromised as will be your gameplay experience even if you never want to touch a loot box ever it still does effect you. If you're okay with that then okay then but I think thats the thing thats hurting this industry more then anything else right now (its just pure outright fucking greed) and I will never support it.

We already had this whole topic about Destiny loot boxes being paid to win or not and a key thing that many of us who were against those loot boxes brought up then was that it opens the door for pay to win things being added and what do you see in games like Battlefront? Yep, pay to win and is anyone really surprised?

Fuck loot boxes and microtransactions.
120v
Member
(10-07-2017, 11:01 AM)
shadow of war seems most sketch in this regard (per the type of game it is). not touching that one

as for multiplayer stuff perhaps i'm naive but i think any $60 game with egregious p2w slopped on top of it will crash and burn on its own inanity. maybe they'll get away with it now but i don't see it as sustainable long term
Darkstorne
Member
(10-07-2017, 11:02 AM)
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Originally Posted by Poster#1

Loot boxes are OK when they are only cosmetic

And I've already stopped reading your post.

I'm against them full stop. If a game wants to make extra money by selling me cosmetics, that's fine - show me the range and I'll happily buy the ones I like if the price is right. Forcing me to gamble for them will get the same response a restaurant would if they showed me a menu and then said "For $20 you'll get ONE of these, no refunds, and you can keep paying $20 until you get the meal you actually want."

Not buying a single loot box game ever.
sublimit
If I doubt a Kotaku rumor, it's probably true
(10-07-2017, 11:03 AM)
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Originally Posted by Darkstorne

And I've already stopped reading your post.

I'm against them full stop. If a game wants to make extra money by selling me cosmetics, that's fine - show me the range and I'll happily buy the ones I like if the price is right. Forcing me to gamble for them will get the same response a restaurant would if they showed me a menu and then said "For $20 you'll get ONE of these, no refunds, and you can keep paying $20 until you get the meal you actually want."

Not buying a single loot box game ever.

This so much.
Bodom78
Member
(10-07-2017, 11:04 AM)
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I'll be skipping them all, so many great games out there so it's easy enough to do.

I don't want to see this rubbish in an already expensive piece of entertainment.
Leyasu
Member
(10-07-2017, 11:05 AM)
I'll just skip the loot boxes.
ramparter
(10-07-2017, 11:06 AM)
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I wasnt planning to get any of these games anyway. My targets for the rest of the year are Mario Odyssey 100% and maybe some of Uktra Sun/Moon, Xeno 2, Mario&Rabbids, FE Warriors...

PS: Loot boxes are ok as long as they dont have exclusive content that cant be obtained in a sensible way in game.
N7.Angel
Member
(10-07-2017, 11:07 AM)
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I'll just get them used, no money for them and can still enjoy it, I won't buy any micro-transaction shit, fuck them.
WrenchNinja
Member
(10-07-2017, 11:07 AM)
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Loot boxes are an automatic turn off for me, especially for single player games
LiquidSolid
Member
(10-07-2017, 11:07 AM)
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AC Origins was the only one of those four I was tempted to pick up but I think I'll wait for impressions before deciding what to do. If it's as bad as Forza or Shadow of War then I'll skip it entirely.

It'd be nice if reviewers had the balls to take games to task for this shit though. Because unless the EU starts pushing for regulations, I think the only things that'll discourage publishers from continuing to push this gambling design bullshit on us is lower sales or lower metacritic scores.
Scrooge McDuck
Member
(10-07-2017, 11:07 AM)
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Originally Posted by Nick_C

RNG loot is a common mechanic, yes. There's an entire sub-genre that's heavily influenced by the mechanic. RNG loot chests that require some form of currnecy exchange, not so much. At least to my knowledge. The closest thing I can think of is Borderlands 2 and the Pre-sequel having the golden chest, but that required Golden Keys that were obtained through codes given out by Gearbox social media or that one guy that lies all the time.

Well yea, but the "mystery chest" thing is only superficial, isn't it? I don't really think there is much practical different between killing enemies to get random items and killing enemies to get money to buy random items. Sure it adds another step and that could be annoying, but not much more egregious, right? And I say this as somebody who actually dislike RNG mechanics (if I toiled to kill that Supergiant Murderdog I want a 100% assurance that I'd actually get that Fateweapon of Legend, dagnabbit)

Heck, a lot of dungeon crawlers has this mechanism where you kill enemy to maybe get a mystery item, which you need to lug around in your inventory until you find an examiner, who you could then pay to identify said mystery item, which may or may not turn out to be good. That's much more annoying.

As for your question, I have no idea, sorry.
Alienous
Member
(10-07-2017, 11:08 AM)
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Yeah, I getting pretty sick of it, so I'm done. I don't mind paying for more content, but this is charging me if I want a chance to avoid the artificial, unenjoyable grind they've created to get more money out of me. I'm not paying $60 for the privilege of having a game constantly try to reach into my pockets. I'm done with it.
Last edited by Alienous; 10-07-2017 at 11:12 AM.
ramparter
(10-07-2017, 11:09 AM)
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Originally Posted by N7.Angel

I'll just get them used, no money for them and can still enjoy it, I won't buy any micro-transaction shit, fuck them.

Yup, second hand is a great way to enjoy the game and send a fuck you to the publishers at the same time.
Steroyd
Member
(10-07-2017, 11:11 AM)
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Well I've coincidentally not purchased any games with lootboxes (although Injustice 2's random gear... ) so far "touch wood" and the list of games in the OP means that's going to continue until next year so I haven't had to make a hard stance on lootboxes... Yet.

Please stay out of my Japanese games, that's my only sacred ground.
CSJ
Member
(10-07-2017, 11:17 AM)
I am, when I first saw Battlefront 2 vids and the bit about free updates etc I knew there would be a catch. Seeing stuff like 40% more damage on abilities in a multiplayer game, for fuck sake.

Single player games? I'm going to cheat engine the hell out of that out of spite to give me what they want to sell me.
Rathorial
Member
(10-07-2017, 11:24 AM)
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Depends on if they muck up the specific game's balance in a bad way, and I'm forced into buying them to play the game at a reliable pace on any difficulty.

I don't really mind them at all with cosmetic stuff, because thay will objectively not effect my experience.

By the reviews I've read Shadow of War seems perfectly playable without paying money, so I'll still be playing it. None of those other games I care about regardless of loot boxes.
mikelarry
Junior Member
(10-07-2017, 11:25 AM)
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What AC origins also has lootboxes damn what a shame.

I was going to Shadow of war
Ac origins

but now its back to my back logs
Zemm
Member
(10-07-2017, 11:31 AM)
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Even without the loot boxes those games hold zero interest for me, but yeah, there will be games that I'm interested in that will have loot boxes included. If they are anything more than cosmetics then it'll be a pass. There's too many games (without boxes) and not enough time so they just make it an easier choice for me.
Nick_C
Member
(10-07-2017, 11:36 AM)
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Originally Posted by Scrooge McDuck

Well yea, but the "mystery chest" thing is only superficial, isn't it? I don't really think there is much practical different between killing enemies to get random items and killing enemies to get money to buy random items. Sure it adds another step and that could be annoying, but not much more egregious, right? And I say this as somebody who actually dislike RNG mechanics (if I toiled to kill that Supergiant Murderdog I want a 100% assurance that I'd actually get that Fateweapon of Legend, dagnabbit)

Heck, a lot of dungeon crawlers has this mechanism where you kill enemy to maybe get a mystery item, which you need to lug around in your inventory until you find an examiner, who you could then pay to identify said mystery item, which may or may not turn out to be good. That's much more annoying.

As for your question, I have no idea, sorry.

It does kinda maybe throw off the gameplay pacing if you need to go to a third party to see if you can turn what you have into a worthwhile item, or if it ends up being junk. You touch on this with your second paragraph. Which I find to be the closest analogy.

When you render it down to its barest parts, these systems of having to go to a vendor to open a box or simply opening a box in the wild achieve the same goal. Did you end up with that sweet, sweet loot that you were hoping for? Or is it vendor trash?

I was approaching it from a random loot box perspective and whether or not they were common in RPGs that I didn't play growing up.

---

Also, not sure if you're channeling your inner Ryan McCaffrey but my line of questioning was in reference to his recent interview with Randy Pitchford, in which he treis really hard to get Ryan to say Jim Sterling's name for a lengthy amount of time, all the while feigning ignorance to who Jim is.
timberger
Banned
(10-07-2017, 11:40 AM)
Yep, absolootely!

The fact that those are all games that are very easy to take a pass on helps a lot also. Doubt I'll be missing much there.
NullPointer
#INTESTINAL
(10-07-2017, 11:40 AM)
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Originally Posted by GHG

As long as it stays that way and the game economy is reasonable then I'm ok with it.

If they add the option to buy them with real money then no bueno.

Bingo. If they don't announce any monetization at launch am just planning on seeing how it looks 90 days in.

Battlefront 2's system of game altering imbalances tied to loot crates is an instant no-go for me, free maps forever or not. Really have no interest in whatever trade-offs there are because its a shit idea at its core.

Shadow of War I'm still not entirely sure about because there is so much conflicting or missing information out there. But I'm inclined to believe the reviewers who talk of a tedious grind, and the similarity to MGS V's Forward Operating Base does it zero favors. Hype evaporated, and I started with an overabundance of the stuff.

And Forza is basically a loot crate based game now - unavoidable really to go through the motions whether you pay a cent on the stuff or not the game's foundation has shifted towards em, and that just stinks.
Last edited by NullPointer; 10-07-2017 at 11:48 AM.
brunomartynhak
Member
(10-07-2017, 11:42 AM)
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Originally Posted by JDM

Nope, I just avoid the loot boxes themselves.

I'm sure every single one of the games that I'm interested in are still enjoyable without engaging in the loot boxes.

I completely understand why people don't want them in gaming, I'm just not that bothered by them.

Same here. Only Overwatch got me once (I bought 11 lootboxes). But that was it. For most games I don't even open the earned lootboxes.
Rmagnus
Member
(10-07-2017, 11:44 AM)
It will not matter. Enough gamers will buy it and it will be the norm moving forward just like paid online. All three console makers are already doing it for paid online. Gamers in general need their fix so no matter what the compaines do, they will be more than willing to accept it.

Personally I only own a switch and PS4 and not really into AAA western developers games so I don't need to skip anything for now. Cant wait to see what capcom does with MHW since loot box is the in thing atm
Thud
Member
(10-07-2017, 11:45 AM)
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Yep.

I avoid them like the plague.
Nick_C
Member
(10-07-2017, 11:48 AM)
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Originally Posted by N7.Angel

I'll just get them used, no money for them and can still enjoy it, I won't buy any micro-transaction shit, fuck them.

Originally Posted by ramparter

Yup, second hand is a great way to enjoy the game and send a fuck you to the publishers at the same time.

Not to single you two out specifically, that's not my intention, but I don't think this'll solve the loot box problem in gaming, to be quite frank. If you really want the game just buy it. Not buying it or buying it second hand sends a message to the pubs that you don't want the game, even if you really enjoy it. You can sytill pay the people responsible for creating the game by purchasing the base product, just avoid microtransactions as best as you can. Not buying it outright or buying second is basically a lost sale. A lost sale shows lack of interst in a product. Lack of interest can turn into canceling development on the series or games that are similar.

You can still enjoy a product while still objecting to certain facets of it. Very rarely is anything in life so black and white with no shades of grey in the middle.
Unaha-Closp
Member
(10-07-2017, 11:49 AM)
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I'm trying to think if I have even bought a game with loot boxes in it? Mind if they are infesting single player games now, the only type of games I play, then at some point I guess I will. I remember playing a hot minute of Mass Effect 3's MP - to get that bloody war readiness meter up - and they had boxes of some sort but that is about all I can recall. Thankfully I have no gambling desire or problem so when I do inevitability come face to face with them I should be fine. I am tempted to get AC:O from that list. I remember past AC games, Unity mostly, had in game currency but you knew what you were buying I think. Different from random loot boxes. It's a facet of games I have not had much dealing with you can tell.
Warablo
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(10-07-2017, 11:49 AM)
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Wouldn't that be like every triple A game?
Poster#1
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(10-07-2017, 11:49 AM)
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Originally Posted by DocSeuss


2) the problem with this argument is that you haven't taken into account the games in the OP, which are not competitive games. Consider, for instance, Forza 7. The loot boxes in Forza 7 do not offer competitive advantages, nor are they cosmetic only. Many of them drop cosmetics, but the main thing they drop is mods. Mods are more like random challenges; they basically give an XP or credit bonus to players

3) there are plenty of other games that implement non-cosmetic loot boxes in interesting ways. Consider Warframe's relics, which are loot boxes with specific drop rates for individual items within them. Players can get relics through gameplay, then run missions to open the relics, then get item drops in them. Opening a relic also gives you voice traces, which allows you to adjust the drop chances of items in the relics. What are these items? Prime items. You can just spend $80-140 to buy them all, or you can farm for a few weeks. I have all Prime warframes in the entire game thanks largely to relics, or platinum I got from selling Prime parts I got from relics I didn't need. Warframe is a cooperative game, so they don't give you an unfair advantage. Anyone can get prime stuff through gameplay.

Basically, the OP's argument is a pile of steaming shit, presuming that a game mechanic OP doesn't like is inherently bad, and only good when it's done the way the OP likes it. The OP has not thought this through, or, if OP has, the OP has not demonstrated as such in the argument.



OP said loot boxes were only okay when they were cosmetic.

Regarding your second point, the game would be designed around MTX or loot boxes. You need a million credit to buy that car which will take you 10 hours.but if you buy this credit double you can get it in 5 or less hours! They are bloating and padding the game intentionally to pay for MTX.

Your third point is moot because Warframe is F2P and they need to charge you somehow.

So quit being a smartass and maybe give it some thought ;).
Kovacs
Junior Member
(10-07-2017, 11:50 AM)
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I'm vehemently against loot boxes, pay-to-win & paid for limited/one-time use items in full priced games and I make sure that I will never spend a penny on any of those items.

However, my decision to purchase the game rests with how they are implemented. Do they impact progression? To they fundamentally change a series' established economy/skill tree/upgrade path? Do they flagrantly advertise the loot boxes in your face by placing the purchase link within the game world themselves - icons on maps, NPC dialogue, items selection etc? Then I'll stay away from them.

If it's a one time message when you first encounter the 'opportunity' to purchase. If they are in their own sub-menu which you have to purposely choose. If they have an in game vendor that you can choose to visit then otherwise ignore. Then I'll at least consider the purchase depending on the strength of the game.

Frankly I wish the entire practice would sod off. If you decide you absolutely must try to sell me cosmetic items, at least have the decency to let me choose my purchase.

TL:DR - If they mess with the game themselves - Nope. Not advertised constantly and only impacts your own game - maybe, if its a good game.
Last edited by Kovacs; 10-07-2017 at 11:53 AM.
RS4-
Member
(10-07-2017, 11:51 AM)
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The four that are mentioned in OP, I won't buy. Throw in a NBA 2k as well.
The ๖ۜBronx
Member
(10-07-2017, 11:53 AM)
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Does it put me off those games?

Destiny 2 - No, because the items gained are worthless, you get handed them like candy and the system has actually put me off buying the boxes as they seem worthless. I bought a few early on and haven't felt any need to go again as blue mods are useless, I've already got two exotic sparrows, two of the three emotes I wanted and enough dust to have been able to just buy anything I want with the in-game currency.

Overwatch - No, because the content they provide for free is of a consistent quality and the skins always look great plus there's a fallback with currency to at least work toward. Also, they've reduced the amount of dupes extensively.

Shadow of War
- Yes, because it's explicitly tied to the end-game grind, and makes the multiplayer pay-to-win. In a narrative focused game I don't want to be thinking about what the grind might have been like without them, and I prefer my end-game to be after the end of the game. I couldn't have been more hyped at the reveal to get my hands on it and now it's barely a thought. Will be a second hand pickup when it hits 15.

Assassins Creed Origins - Yes, because the stuff you get from the boxes is the same as you're trying to get through standard progression, and seem to include weapons that affect gameplay. It will always annoy me when it's non-cosmetic, appears to be of significance and is in a single-player narrative-focused game. I will never not be wondering what the grind would be like without them, and at the same time why they couldn't have stuck with cosmetics.

Battlefront 2
- Probably, though I feel I've played enough of the game from the beta and genuinely don't feel a desire to buy it when looking at the other releases upcoming or I have yet to play from this year.
Scrooge McDuck
Member
(10-07-2017, 11:54 AM)
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Originally Posted by Nick_C

It does kinda maybe throw off the gameplay pacing if you need to go to a third party to see if you can turn what you have into a worthwhile item, or if it ends up being junk. You touch on this with your second paragraph. Which I find to be the closest analogy.

When you render it down to its barest parts, these systems of having to go to a vendor to open a box or simply opening a box in the wild achieve the same goal. Did you end up with that sweet, sweet loot that you were hoping for? Or is it vendor trash?

I was approaching it from a random loot box perspective and whether or not they were common in RPGs that I didn't play growing up.

Yar, I agree that it could maybe throw off the gameplay pacing. Heck you could go into the extreme and argue that it doesn't respect the player's time and I'd still be inclined to agree with you.

I think the point Crossing Eden was making is, when - as you said - you render it down to its barest parts, it's no different than any other RPG out there. It is far cry from the other games in OP's list.

---

I'm honestly not being disingenuous here but I also don't know who Ryan McCaffrey is, haha. I know Jim Sterling, though, and recognize Randy Pitchford's name. Link to the interview, if you don't mind?
Last edited by Scrooge McDuck; 10-07-2017 at 11:59 AM.
Creamium
shut uuuuuuuuuuuuuuup
(10-07-2017, 11:56 AM)
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I'm not interested in these games anyway, and the major titles I'm getting for the remainder of the year don't have any of this bs. I was only mildly interested in Mordor but I have to say the lootbox stuff pushed it further down.
danthefan
Member
(10-07-2017, 11:57 AM)
It depends on how they're implemented. If it's just costumes or something then I won't avoid purposely. If it's like Shadow of War where it really impacts things then I'm not buying.
Compsiox
Member
(10-07-2017, 12:00 PM)
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There's no point. People will always buy them. It's time to just accept them. People should continue to rage when they're done in a shitty way though.
ps3ud0
Member
(10-07-2017, 12:01 PM)
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Weren't really on my radar anyway, either through not owning the platform or just avoiding certain publishers anyway...

AC Origins I might get second hand at some point in the far future. AAA games for most part don't tend to make up a lot of my gaming nowadays...

ps3ud0 8)
Bumhead
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(10-07-2017, 12:01 PM)
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I don't think I've ever played a single game where Loot Boxes were that intrusive or prohibitive to my enjoyment of a game.

As a result in really struggling to understand today's outrage (and maybe that's just it - today's thing to be AngryMad about on the internet) and won't be passing on any games as a result of this.

Video games are a business - like it or not - and as with all business decisions there are going to be varying levels of success when trying to leverage more from the customer (which is what each and every one of us are - these people aren't our friends). People are entitled to swerve business practices they don't agree with and all power to them, but I think to dismiss otherwise expansive and feature rich games over something which probably won't have that great an impact is silly. Especially in single player games where there is little threat of pay to win or other bought advantages.
Ossom
Member
(10-07-2017, 12:08 PM)
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I'm skipping them all except Battlefront 2. The loot box system doesn't sound great, but I feel that the now free map updates balances this out a bit. It will also depend on how easy it is to earn boxes in game.
tiebreaker
Member
(10-07-2017, 12:14 PM)
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I only have interest in AC, which I'll probably wait on as I have many other games to play at the moment.
Nester99
Member
(10-07-2017, 12:14 PM)
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I play the games I want to, I just don't spend RL $ beyond the game and MAYBE True DLC.
Roufianos
Member
(10-07-2017, 12:16 PM)
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Yea. Not picking up Shadow of War. Loot boxes in SP games is an all time low.

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