• Register
  • TOS
  • Privacy
  • @NeoGAF
  • Like

RPS37
Junior Member
(10-07-2017, 06:27 AM)
RPS37's Avatar
Remember how big Super Mario Odyssey is supposed to be?
Devs, more like that.
Conkerkid11
Member
(10-07-2017, 06:27 AM)
Conkerkid11's Avatar

Originally Posted by Kintaro

Tweet says: "Shadow of War might be the single biggest download (at launch) I've ever seen. A lot is 4K video, plus a TON of uruk voice acting."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but 4K assets and a ton of sound probably take up a good amount of space. Xbox One X assets on 11/7 will probably push it near PC levels.

Eh, I don't have a problem with this.

Who the fuck asked for 4k prerendered cutscenes? Do that shit in real-time unless you're also negotiating with ISPs to stop being so incredibly shitty.

Originally Posted by xviper

developers these days should take notes from CDPR, the best game of the generation, stunning graphics, huge open world with tons of things to do, voice acting on every character, over 200h of content, and all of that was 25GB at launch

No prerendered cutscenes helped.
xviper
Member
(10-07-2017, 06:27 AM)
xviper's Avatar
developers these days should take notes from CDPR, the best game of the generation, stunning graphics, huge open world with tons of things to do, voice acting on every character, over 200h of content, and all of that was 25GB at launch
xxracerxx
Don't worry, I'll vouch for them.
(10-07-2017, 06:28 AM)
xxracerxx's Avatar
Jesus, Mary and Joseph.
Prophet Steve
Member
(10-07-2017, 06:29 AM)
Prophet Steve's Avatar

Originally Posted by Crossing Eden

Regardless of story quality for a triple A game there's always a lot of talent, time, money and effort put into the cutscenes....The post above says the game's cutscenes are in 4K, (again, even 2 minutes in 4K is an incredibly large file). On top of that is the metric fuckton of unique voice files. I hadn't even considered that factor truth be told. File size makes completely sense in this scenario.

Yeah it's perfect reasonable considering you are including basically a 4k blu-ray with the game. It's just I wish they wouldn't waste the budget, time and filesize on those cutscenes. But hey, it's the way to go.
Mohasus
Member
(10-07-2017, 06:30 AM)
Mohasus's Avatar

Originally Posted by Alexander DeLarge

Uncompressed audio/video files strike again.

Render cutscenes in engine. Stop bloating games unnecessarily. Also, we don't need our sound files in FLAC. Just saying.

B-but flac is compressed.
Mexen
Member
(10-07-2017, 06:31 AM)
Mexen's Avatar

Originally Posted by Chobel

So many loot boxes.

Perfect
Iced_Eagle
Member
(10-07-2017, 06:31 AM)
Iced_Eagle's Avatar

Originally Posted by big_z

Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo should require compression. Sure download speeds are faster and disc space is much larger but that doesn’t mean there’s no need for compression if the game fits.

There is no noticeable difference in quality between uncompressed and optimized assets and optimizing can reduce file size to by 30-60% on average. For those that want to go digital or have download caps/slower speed (and that’s a lot of people) it makes a huge difference.

On the flip side, people want to play on PC for the best image quality. Offering up highly compressed / low bitrate videos would be extremely distracting, particularly since a lot of Shadow of War has a lot of extremely dark scenes (visually dark). Dark scenes + low bitrate = extremely noticeable blocking artifacts which look like ass.

Xbox has their new Intelligent Delivery system which is designed to help cases like this though. You can split files up so you have an "English Audio", "German Audio", etc and a "4k asset" pack, etc. Then, if you're playing on an original Xbox One in English, it doesn't download the rest of the languages or the 4k assets since you can't use them.

I'm not sure if Steam or PSN have a similar feature though? The most I've seen on Steam is that for Rainbow Six Siege they have a free DLC pack for 'Ultra HD Textures". You could probably get it to work through the use of free DLC, but it would be very clunky to do, especially when it came to language support.
Einchy
semen stains the mountaintops
(10-07-2017, 06:32 AM)
Einchy's Avatar
Jesus christ, man. Do they have a deal with ISP to fuck over people's data usage?
RayCharlizard
Junior Member
(10-07-2017, 06:32 AM)
RayCharlizard's Avatar
I've been wanting higher quality cutscenes for years, there's nothing worse than booting up a game in 4K (or hell, even 1080p) on a PC and then sitting through FLV-quality video. Especially on PC where storage is rarely a problem. It'd be nice to offer a "video pack" like high quality textures are made optional sometimes to give the choice between lower or higher quality video. But even something as simple as the opening logos being in shit-tier quality is very off-putting for me. I imagine this will be less an issue in the future when HEVC/AV1-capable hardware becomes common place and we can toss blocky low-res video all together.
KingBroly
Member
(10-07-2017, 06:33 AM)
KingBroly's Avatar
Devs need to get their file sizes and update sizes under control

Digital Distribution is no excuse to be as big as they want.
Conkerkid11
Member
(10-07-2017, 06:33 AM)
Conkerkid11's Avatar

Originally Posted by Iced_Eagle

On the flip side, people want to play on PC for the best image quality. Offering up highly compressed / low bitrate videos would be extremely distracting, particularly since a lot of Shadow of War has a lot of extremely dark scenes (visually dark). Dark scenes + low bitrate = extremely noticeable blocking artifacts which look like ass.

Xbox has their new Intelligent Delivery system which is designed to help cases like this though. You can split files up so you have an "English Audio", "German Audio", etc and a "4k asset" pack, etc. Then, if you're playing on an original Xbox One in English, it doesn't download the rest of the languages or the 4k assets since you can't use them.

I'm not sure if Steam or PSN have a similar feature though? The most I've seen on Steam is that for Rainbow Six Siege they have a free DLC pack for 'Ultra HD Textures". You could probably get it to work through the use of free DLC, but it would be very clunky to do, especially when it came to language support.

Is that Xbox system even in place yet? Even if it is, I doubt it exists in any games releasing this year.

Steam allows devs to treat stuff like this as DLC and make it optional to download. CoD does it that way to split up the campaign and multiplayer. Other games do that to make high resolution textures optional.

Originally Posted by RayCharlizard

I've been wanting higher quality cutscenes for years, there's nothing worse than booting up a game in 4K (or hell, even 1080p) on a PC and then sitting through FLV-quality video. Especially on PC where storage is rarely a problem. It'd be nice to offer a "video pack" like high quality textures are made optional sometimes to give the choice between lower or higher quality video. But even something as simple as the opening logos being in shit-tier quality is very off-putting for me. I imagine this will be less an issue in the future when HEVC/AV1-capable hardware becomes common place and we can toss blocky low-res video all together.

Prerendered cutscenes are still jarring though. They play at a lower framerate than you're likely playing the game in, and they look significantly better than anything in-game. Real-time in-engine cutscenes are better, and they prevent more than 50% of the game's download size from being cutscenes people are just gonna skip.
Last edited by Conkerkid11; 10-07-2017 at 06:37 AM.
bchan555
Junior Member
(10-07-2017, 06:43 AM)
bchan555's Avatar
It's kind of sad because I'm pretty sure the only people who care about a game's FILE SIZE are:

1) Americans
2) People who live in places with little access to the internet

In Asia and Europe nobody cares. It's amazing how one of the wealthiest nations on the planet is like 10 years behind everyone else.

I had 100mb uncapped fiber internet in Hong Kong for 30USD a month -- that was the CHEAPEST plan. I could have gone gigabit EASILY.

Since moving back to NYC I'm lucky to have gigabit with no caps for about 70USD a month.

The USA is a joke when it comes to internet.

I don't think it's on the developers and I don't think this is a problem they need to address. It just sucks for people who have shitty American ISPs.

Instead of bitching at developers people should be bitching at their draconian ISPs.
Cuningas de Häme
Member
(10-07-2017, 06:54 AM)
Cuningas de Häme's Avatar

Originally Posted by bchan555

It's kind of sad because I'm pretty sure the only people who care about a game's FILE SIZE are:

1) Americans
2) People who live in places with little access to the internet

In Asia and Europe nobody cares. It's amazing how one of the wealthiest nations on the planet is like 10 years behind everyone else.

I had 100mb uncapped fiber internet in Hong Kong for 30USD a month -- that was the CHEAPEST plan. I could have gone gigabit EASILY.

Since moving back to NYC I'm lucky to have gigabit with no caps for about 70USD a month.

The USA is a joke when it comes to internet.

I don't think it's on the developers and I don't think this is a problem they need to address. It just sucks for people who have shitty American ISPs.

Instead of bitching at developers people should be bitching at their draconian ISPs.

This.

US is a 3rd World Country when it comes to data. Seriously that is so disgusting.

Here things go better and better because government actually thinks about it's citizens instead of spreading their ass cheeks for corporations.

You guys really need a revolution there.
Kintaro
Worships the porcelain goddess
(10-07-2017, 06:54 AM)
Kintaro's Avatar

Originally Posted by RPS37

Remember how big Super Mario Odyssey is supposed to be?
Devs, more like that.

While Odyssey will be awesome, those assets won't look very good at 1440p/4k or beyond. Will look great on Switch though!

Originally Posted by bchan555


Instead of bitching at developers people should be bitching at their draconian ISPs.

Super, duper true.

But yeah, lets bitch at Shadow of War some more though. =)
Yarbskoo
Member
(10-07-2017, 06:55 AM)
Yarbskoo's Avatar

Originally Posted by RayCharlizard

I've been wanting higher quality cutscenes for years, there's nothing worse than booting up a game in 4K (or hell, even 1080p) on a PC and then sitting through FLV-quality video. Especially on PC where storage is rarely a problem. It'd be nice to offer a "video pack" like high quality textures are made optional sometimes to give the choice between lower or higher quality video. But even something as simple as the opening logos being in shit-tier quality is very off-putting for me. I imagine this will be less an issue in the future when HEVC/AV1-capable hardware becomes common place and we can toss blocky low-res video all together.

Prerendered sequences will always look off on PC. Even if they were totally uncompressed, there's no way to account for differences in aspect ratio, framerate, resolution, or even mods. The only way to ensure parity with the real-time graphics is to have real-time cutscenes.

Originally Posted by Kintaro

While Odyssey will be awesome, those assets won't look very good at 1440p/4k or beyond.

Pretty much everything looks better at higher resolutions.
Last edited by Yarbskoo; 10-07-2017 at 06:58 AM.
Gren
Member
(10-07-2017, 06:56 AM)
Gren's Avatar

Originally Posted by bchan555

Instead of bitching at developers people should be bitching at their draconian ISPs.

HDD space is still a thing. Regardless it doesn't let these devs/pubs off the hook. They know their target audience (i.e. a lot of Americans); why make it an inconvenience for them to get their games?

At least with Win32 there are sometimes ways users can rear this excess back a bit. Console & UWP variants are essentially SOL.

EDIT: Did not know about that new Xbox delivery system. Thank god, with all these companies pushing digital hard, at least they're doing something to mitigate ever-ballooning filesizes.
Last edited by Gren; 10-07-2017 at 07:05 AM.
Link1110
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:00 AM)
Can't they just compress these things and maybe offer the uncompressed as DLC,? Make it paid DLC for all I care cause I wouldn't bother buying it
Last edited by Link1110; 10-07-2017 at 07:54 AM.
RayCharlizard
Junior Member
(10-07-2017, 07:08 AM)
RayCharlizard's Avatar

Originally Posted by Conkerkid11

Prerendered cutscenes are still jarring though. They play at a lower framerate than you're likely playing the game in, and they look significantly better than anything in-game. Real-time in-engine cutscenes are better, and they prevent more than 50% of the game's download size from being cutscenes people are just gonna skip.

Originally Posted by Yarbskoo

Prerendered sequences will always look off on PC. Even if they were totally uncompressed, there's no way to account for differences in aspect ratio, framerate, resolution, or even mods. The only way to ensure parity with the real-time graphics is to have real-time cutscenes.

Obviously in-engine is ideal but this is clearly not always available, so in that case I'd rather have the highest quality video available. An aspect-ratio of frame rate dip doesn't bother me as much in a non-playable cutscene as giant macroblocks, banding or blur due to lack of resolution. I also wouldn't mind those cutscenes being rendered at 60 fps rather than 30, but this would further increase file size.
Cyberpunk7
Junior Member
(10-07-2017, 07:10 AM)
Cyberpunk7's Avatar
I remember seeing a Repack for the 55 GB Final Fantasy XIII on PC that cut all the cutscenes and guess what was the final size ...... it was 3 GB

If this goes on , then I guess Retail PC will return to a lot of people
Last edited by Cyberpunk7; 10-07-2017 at 07:13 AM.
robotrock
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:14 AM)
robotrock's Avatar

Originally Posted by Kintaro

While Odyssey will be awesome, those assets won't look very good at 1440p/4k or beyond. Will look great on Switch though!

You should see some CEMU screenshots. Heck, even Dolphin goes far as hell.

Nintendo games shine at higher resolutions.
Kintaro
Worships the porcelain goddess
(10-07-2017, 07:14 AM)
Kintaro's Avatar

Originally Posted by Yarbskoo

Pretty much everything looks better at higher resolutions.

Eh, true for the most part. No resolution will make that human world look good though (hate it). =P
Memento
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:20 AM)
Memento's Avatar
I am actually sadder with the 17 minutes remaining for 60 fucking GB.

My internet speed would lock my PS4 for an entire weekend to download something like that, Jesus
Fbh
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:20 AM)
Fbh's Avatar
And after a few patches it will probably be 120+.

I agree that devs need to start offering stuff like 4K cutscenes and FLAC audio (or whatever big format they are using) as optional downloads in the same way that other games have offered other languages (voices) or higher res textures as optional downloads.
Last edited by Fbh; 10-07-2017 at 07:29 AM.
OfTheOverflow
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:21 AM)
OfTheOverflow's Avatar
Damn, that's a lot of loot boxes.
Stop It
Perfectly able to grasp the inherent value of the fishing game.
(10-07-2017, 07:26 AM)
Stop It's Avatar

Originally Posted by Fbh

And after a few patches it will probably be 120+.

I agree that devs need to start offering stuff like 4K cutscenes and FLAC audio (or whatever big format they are using) as optional downloads in the same way that other games have offered language (voices) or higher res textures as optional downloads.

That would be an acceptable compromise for everyone I think.

Some people don't have 4K capable equipment (You have my pity) or don't care about FLAC enough to justify blowing through their data caps for content they don't want or need.

Personally, I would download a extra data pack with 4K video and FLAC as I have unlimited 200/20 internet, but not everyone has a connection like that and 100GB is pretty scary for a slower or capped connection.
Neith
Banned
(10-07-2017, 07:29 AM)

Originally Posted by Alexander DeLarge


https://twitter.com/DanStapleton/sta...90593340751872

Uncompressed audio/video files strike again. This may not even include high resolution textures which were an optional free DLC last time. The inevitable repacks that pirates download will probably bring it down to less than half the size like they did with Nier Automata (48GB to 23GB). It's ridiculous, especially when you consider that a ton of people will be playing on SSDs and have ISP bandwidth caps. Can developers please stop doing this?

Render cutscenes in engine. Stop bloating games unnecessarily. Also, we don't need our sound files in FLAC. Just saying.

63.93GB on PS4 Pro too.

Complaining about lossless sound? Please just stop now. This is great that a dev cares about this. FLAC=compression.

I agree they could offer less if people want it, but lossless sound is a good thing, not a bad thing, and it doesn't ADD that much to the files. At most a couple gigs here and there big deal.
bobbychalkers
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:29 AM)
bobbychalkers's Avatar
17 minutes to download ~60gigs

Lemme hold some of that good internet.
JaseC
gave away the keys to the kingdom.
(10-07-2017, 07:33 AM)
JaseC's Avatar

Originally Posted by Iced_Eagle

I'm not sure if Steam or PSN have a similar feature though?

Valve has always encouraged publishers to use language-specific data depots and, as you've noticed, they have the option of using DLC as a means to offer non-essential content as an optional download (case in point). Microsoft's approach isn't really any different but could be made a certification requirement and hence apply to all new releases going forward.
Last edited by JaseC; 10-07-2017 at 08:43 AM.
robotrock
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:36 AM)
robotrock's Avatar
I feel like pretendered cutscenes never work right on PC. Always a stuttery mess or audio drop outs. Plus they age like garbage and usually look inconsistent to the rest of the game.
kyser73
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:38 AM)
kyser73's Avatar
Pre-rendered cutscenes in 2017?

Lol.
Vuci
Junior Member
(10-07-2017, 07:39 AM)
Wow.
And you know the FMV will look awful.
Twentieth
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:39 AM)
Twentieth's Avatar
As someone with a 100GB data cap per month in a country where physical games are much more expensive, I can guarantee I'll never pick this game up. This is just cherry on top after the loot box fiasco.
dark10x
60 fps 60 fps 60 fps 60 fps 30 fps 60 fps 60 fps 30 fps
(10-07-2017, 07:40 AM)
dark10x's Avatar
I dislike pre-rendered videos but understand the need sometime but uncompressed audio is a VERY good thing and should not be removed to save space.
cripterion
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:41 AM)
cripterion's Avatar

Originally Posted by AlexFlame116

17 minutes to complete that...

I hate my slow internet.

Hmmm ok...good for you I guess? Meanwhile some of us with actual slow connections will skip this cause of the fucking size of the game.
cripterion
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:48 AM)
cripterion's Avatar

Originally Posted by bchan555

It's kind of sad because I'm pretty sure the only people who care about a game's FILE SIZE are:

1) Americans
2) People who live in places with little access to the internet

In Asia and Europe nobody cares. It's amazing how one of the wealthiest nations on the planet is like 10 years behind everyone else.

I had 100mb uncapped fiber internet in Hong Kong for 30USD a month -- that was the CHEAPEST plan. I could have gone gigabit EASILY.

Since moving back to NYC I'm lucky to have gigabit with no caps for about 70USD a month.

The USA is a joke when it comes to internet.

I don't think it's on the developers and I don't think this is a problem they need to address. It just sucks for people who have shitty American ISPs.

Instead of bitching at developers people should be bitching at their draconian ISPs.

What a fucking cocky post. Check the advancement of internet fiber in France and come back to me. I haven't had a download increase since we got the DSL connection and I struggle to reach 1MB/s in my downloads. Internet fiber is due in 2021.
robotrock
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:49 AM)
robotrock's Avatar

Originally Posted by dark10x

I dislike pre-rendered videos but understand the need sometime but uncompressed audio is a VERY good thing and should not be removed to save space.

mgs4 gold standard
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
(10-07-2017, 07:50 AM)
Crossing Eden's Avatar

Originally Posted by Vuci

Wow.
And you know the FMV will look awful.

No they don't.
Maximo
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:51 AM)
Maximo's Avatar

Originally Posted by Cuningas de Häme

This.

US is a 3rd World Country when it comes to data. Seriously that is so disgusting.

Here things go better and better because government actually thinks about it's citizens instead of spreading their ass cheeks for corporations.

You guys really need a revolution there.

Mate you should see Australia its fucking bad I get max 2mb download on Steam.
snail_maze
Junior Member
(10-07-2017, 07:52 AM)
snail_maze's Avatar
The cutscenes and story of the first one were so awful. I would much prefer a version of the game which simply didn't include any of them. Not even for data reasons but just because they add nothing of value to the game except waste my time or hide loading screens
Spence
Junior Member
(10-07-2017, 07:57 AM)
Spence's Avatar
Can't they just use HEVC compression on the videos and some kind of good compression on the audio?
robotrock
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:57 AM)
robotrock's Avatar

Originally Posted by Crossing Eden

No they don't.

Even if you think that, they’ll still look jarring next to gameplay.
RayCharlizard
Junior Member
(10-07-2017, 07:59 AM)
RayCharlizard's Avatar

Originally Posted by Spence

Can't they just use HEVC compression on the videos and some kind of good compression on the audio?

I kind of touched on that a bit above but that's not really feasible right now because HEVC requires a beefy CPU for software decoding and there isn't a lot of hardware support out there for it yet to decode via GPU like H.264 is today. Lots of low to mid and even some slightly older but still high-end systems would not handle HEVC video well. And only the PS4 Pro, Xbox One S/X actually have hardware for HEVC decoding too, and the benefit of the current compression methods is that it works on all platforms and costs minimal system resources.
Curious Puppy
Junior Member
(10-07-2017, 08:01 AM)
Curious Puppy's Avatar
I'm old enough to remember people saying games need to stop being so big ever since the first 1gb game came out, and then again at 2gb, and again at 5gb, so on and so on. They're just going to keep getting bigger.
Braag
Member
(10-07-2017, 08:01 AM)
Braag's Avatar
I mean I just checked and Gears 4 is over 120gb... so yeah, some games are just bigger I guess?
snail_maze
Junior Member
(10-07-2017, 08:05 AM)
snail_maze's Avatar

Originally Posted by Braag

I mean I just checked and Gears 4 is over 120gb... so yeah, some games are just bigger I guess?

Windows 10 Store am cry
faridmon
Member
(10-07-2017, 08:06 AM)
faridmon's Avatar
Good, less games to buy. Love when devs give me reasons not to buy their games. There are so many games out this month
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
(10-07-2017, 08:07 AM)
Crossing Eden's Avatar

Originally Posted by robotrock

Even if you think that, they’ll still look jarring next to gameplay.

Not really, at least not anymore than in other games.
Syriel
Member
(10-07-2017, 08:11 AM)
Syriel's Avatar

Originally Posted by bobbychalkers

17 minutes to download ~60gigs

Lemme hold some of that good internet.

That's only 500 Mbps. Not even gigabit.

Then again, XBL seems to top out around 200 Mbps, so Steam has an advantage there.

That's my only complaint about large file sizes. I'll take the bigger files if it means higher quality assets, but publishers really need to invest in high speed CDNs to deliver said content.
UrbanRats
Member
(10-07-2017, 08:34 AM)
UrbanRats's Avatar
I guess that's the nail in the coffin for me.
97GB it's insane.

We're probably going to get there eventually, but i'm not ready for it, yet (and certainly not for this game).

Thread Tools